willsommersMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 103
edited January 2014
Who will make a TR if a CW which has more aoe, more CCs and damage near the TR which is supposedly one class focused on damage?
.
At one point in time in this game the TR was the king of damage in dungeons, but alas the PVP criers got the class nerfed into oblivion in PVE. With yet more nerfs to come in the future (based entirely off PVP.....). Yeah sure, the balance was needed for PVP, but afterwards you would rarely, if ever, find a group wanting to take multiple TRs in a group.
Have anyone of you ever looked for a TR (trickster rogue) for DD (dungeon delve)? Most (if not all) of your answers would be "No". Reason being? TRs are too "weak" too "useless". This bring me to my point, TRs NEEDS to be buffed!
Game developers, if you guys created TR to be pvp orientated, then there are some problems there too. One being i have never seen a TR 1v5 and win the fight but, i have seen GWF ( great weapon fighters) 1 v 5 in PvP and win (occasionally 1 v 5+ in gauntlgrym pvp and still win). SO either we start seeing some class balancing or TR needs more sustainability + damage output. Because that 4 seconds of ITC ( impossible to catch) with it's 18sec cooldown hardly changes the outcome of a fight against a GWF.
If the TR WAS made just for PvP, then that itself is a serious problem. How can you make a class which is close to useless in a dungeon? How do you expect people to gear up that class when nobody wants them for dungeons?
I know assassin types usually have single target attacks that deal high damage but, TR's only skill that does that has almost 20sec cooldown. I have also seen CW ( control wizard ) ice knife doing over 200k damage ( some say they have seen close to a million)
So either make TRs more "useful" in PvE ( dungeons etc), give us TRs shorter cooldowns or give us more damage out put in PvE and PvP situation. Alternatively balance out the classes.
P.S try the game yourself during dungeon delve event, go to protector's enclave. I'll give you a dollar if you see anyone looking for a TR to go dungeon (apart from runners). Because everyone sterotypes TRs to "runner or useless".
P.P.S i'm a TR with 14.5k gear score so i'm not writing this just because i can't get gear. I'm writing this coz i feel TR are underrated and nobody cares for them.
wow..dude, TR is awesome in epic DD, i was doing it with a healer, a tanker, me a TR, a cw n a hunter, we r able to go all the way to the last boss r u a whisperknife tr or infiltrator paragon?
wow..dude, TR is awesome in epic DD, i was doing it with a healer, a tanker, me a TR, a cw n a hunter, we r able to go all the way to the last boss r u a whisperknife tr or infiltrator paragon?
i do more damage then most GWF / HR / CW...people are just reluctant to take TR coz they are single target
TR was very great in mod1. It has a fix position in parties. I had lots of experienced TRs on my friendlist. Now it was shifted slowly to gwf/hr because of their buffed aoe attacks.
Instead of ranged he needs some aoe to be compete-able. Lightfoot thief is a good start.
If the "call someone outside the dungeon because I can't do the boss" system were working properly, TRs would be high demand class again. Still outdpsing gwfs or anybody else on single target.
Oh god, I've just tried the whisper knife paragon today and I feel like someone has just split in my face!
It's so ridiculous, the build is awful both for PvE and PvP.
If with my infiltrator paragon I could outplay GWF/CW and force them to waste all his CC powers while I am on ITC, now I can't do a HAMSTER at all. They just STOMP me to hell.
Same for PvE with all those "Run to the end" things where I usually get AoE to pieces if one of the CWs didn't throw a singularity in time. Not to mention the dungeons where I need to stick to the boss as much as possible.
No, I change my mind about TR, it's undernerfed class and needs to be buffed! At least Whisperknife paragon. Infiltrator is so superior to it.
Friend, it's not that TR's are useless. The problem is for dungeons, CW's are TOO useful. Everyone is in the same boat right now against CW's. But then again, PVE is a CW's playground mainly because of the way dungeons are designed. Everything can be easily controlled and they can just nuke stuff with their insane DPS. This is not a complaint, just so we are clear. I like how CW's can do these awesome stuff! But PVE right now is completely leaning towards control. Which leads to tanks being completely unneeded, and single target DPS being less favored over ranged AoE DPS that is able to go as high or even higher than that of a TR's single target DPS.
It's the lack of intelligent PVE mechanics, not the TRs or GFs fault. It also doesn't help that the Dungeon Delve chest can only be opened at only specific times in the game. This leads people to lean towards speed running and exploiting, much more than legit and more casual dungeon runs, in order to make the most out of this 1 hour event.
Hello TR friends,
I agree with todesfaelle (nice name by the way translating it into german concerning the design of the dungeons and PVE mechanics. Moreover most non TR players think this class is not usefull in dungeons like kind of a prejudice ) As a PUG player I often get kicked before the party even started. Yes I know I should play more often with my guild :P
I don
Instead of ranged he needs some aoe to be compete-able.
No, no we don't more AoEs or range or any of that stuff. We don't need all the classes to be the same. GWFs or HRs are not better than TRs. Look through the forum, you will that the other classes are unsatisfied with their situations as well. We're not all supposed to be CWs. We are the best at what we're supposed to do, because we have the best tools for the job. Stop crying for changes in the classes. The problem is in how the dungeons are made.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
Oh god, I've just tried the whisper knife paragon today [snip] the build is awful both for PvE and PvP
Perhaps that will be true at level 60. From 30 to 50, it's been perfectly fine in PvE, & since I don't do PvP it doesn't matter whether it's subpar there or not.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
I'll do the readers a favor and not quote the entire post. BUT I LOVED every bit of it. The closing message is epic. More seriously though, I have to agree on the PvE potential of some DPS WK builds. It appears to be more of a glass cannon than infiltrators -- which if I'm thinking correctly, is what we need to bridge the DPS gap between the TR and CW.
Apparently, Vengeance Pursuit doesn't have a cooldown (for now. who knows.). And spammable. I am willing to test out your theories. I've been doing back and forth respecs to find a viable WK playstyle, sadly I have to spec back to Infiltrator every time to be useful in PvP (not saying that WK is weak in PvP. I've been struck by the Rolling-Slash-Stealthed-Lashing-Blade combo or whatever they call it).
I would decide between the following options for a WK PvE build:
Lurkers vs feated Whirlwind of Blades (deals 250% iirc DoT weapon damage)
Executioner vs Scoundrel (for the spammable Action Rush ofc)
P. Vorpal vs P. Lightning (since I am spamming AoE)
Dish Strike vs Flurry (animation time considered)
I'm going to test these on possible PvE situations, and see what happens. Time to numbercrunch! Meanwhile, I hope we can keep this thread constructive and leaning more towards finding the most suitable playstyle for an effective PvE TR. There has to be a golden needle somewhere in the haystack. I wont be calling for a buff/nerf anytime soon. Cheers!
Nice. Thanks in advance for testing, Rustlord! I personally am looking forward to hearing the results! I for one am confident about the DPS of the PVE Executioner WK, most specially since the AoE of WK has a decent range and zero target cap. I can just imagine seeing those numbers.
And good call on P. Lightning. AoE's with 0 target caps would benefit a lot from lightning bolts that can jump a maximum of 3 times from mob to mob.
Nice. Thanks in advance for testing, Rustlord! I personally am looking forward to hearing the results! I for one am confident about the DPS of the PVE Executioner WK, most specially since the AoE of WK has a decent range and zero target cap. I can just imagine seeing those numbers.
And good call on P. Lightning. AoE's with 0 target caps would benefit a lot from lightning bolts that can jump a maximum of 3 times from mob to mob.
tr's need single target buff not aoe.trs will never come close to other classes in aoe.only way to be viable is to be the best at something or at least very good i dont see tr aoe no where close.
maybe the best way to do this is to buff pve sets coz they are useless in next module for pvp anyway.
I don't think TRs need any buff at all. As others have said, & I agree: the PvE problem is not with the class itself, but with the dungeon design. Redesign the dungeons so they're not such add-fests, & we'll have nothing to complain about.
But IMO, as it stands, we don't anyway. So go Trickster & have fun.
Fare you well
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
Comments
At one point in time in this game the TR was the king of damage in dungeons, but alas the PVP criers got the class nerfed into oblivion in PVE. With yet more nerfs to come in the future (based entirely off PVP.....). Yeah sure, the balance was needed for PVP, but afterwards you would rarely, if ever, find a group wanting to take multiple TRs in a group.
WTB Class Reroll please
wow..dude, TR is awesome in epic DD, i was doing it with a healer, a tanker, me a TR, a cw n a hunter, we r able to go all the way to the last boss r u a whisperknife tr or infiltrator paragon?
Character:
7thS1n---Trickster Rouge LV 70(perma-Stun build)
7ThH3AL3R-- Devoted Cleric LV 70 (Divine Oracle Haste/DPS build)
7ThM4G3-- Control Wizard
7ThW4rL0CK-- Scrooge Warlock
7THW4R--Great Weapon Fighter
i do more damage then most GWF / HR / CW...people are just reluctant to take TR coz they are single target
Instead of ranged he needs some aoe to be compete-able. Lightfoot thief is a good start.
If the "call someone outside the dungeon because I can't do the boss" system were working properly, TRs would be high demand class again. Still outdpsing gwfs or anybody else on single target.
I agree, I think that would be an ideal solution. But the forum whining would be epic, & I think the devs don't want to put up with that.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
It's so ridiculous, the build is awful both for PvE and PvP.
If with my infiltrator paragon I could outplay GWF/CW and force them to waste all his CC powers while I am on ITC, now I can't do a HAMSTER at all. They just STOMP me to hell.
Same for PvE with all those "Run to the end" things where I usually get AoE to pieces if one of the CWs didn't throw a singularity in time. Not to mention the dungeons where I need to stick to the boss as much as possible.
No, I change my mind about TR, it's undernerfed class and needs to be buffed! At least Whisperknife paragon. Infiltrator is so superior to it.
Well, they are ok with the way GWFs are now so why not?
Oh wait...perhaps it's their favourite class now?
WTB Class Reroll please
Hello TR friends,
I agree with todesfaelle (nice name by the way translating it into german
I don
Perhaps that will be true at level 60. From 30 to 50, it's been perfectly fine in PvE, & since I don't do PvP it doesn't matter whether it's subpar there or not.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
I'll do the readers a favor and not quote the entire post. BUT I LOVED every bit of it. The closing message is epic. More seriously though, I have to agree on the PvE potential of some DPS WK builds. It appears to be more of a glass cannon than infiltrators -- which if I'm thinking correctly, is what we need to bridge the DPS gap between the TR and CW.
Apparently, Vengeance Pursuit doesn't have a cooldown (for now. who knows.). And spammable. I am willing to test out your theories. I've been doing back and forth respecs to find a viable WK playstyle, sadly I have to spec back to Infiltrator every time to be useful in PvP (not saying that WK is weak in PvP. I've been struck by the Rolling-Slash-Stealthed-Lashing-Blade combo or whatever they call it).
I would decide between the following options for a WK PvE build:
Lurkers vs feated Whirlwind of Blades (deals 250% iirc DoT weapon damage)
Executioner vs Scoundrel (for the spammable Action Rush ofc)
P. Vorpal vs P. Lightning (since I am spamming AoE)
Dish Strike vs Flurry (animation time considered)
I'm going to test these on possible PvE situations, and see what happens. Time to numbercrunch! Meanwhile, I hope we can keep this thread constructive and leaning more towards finding the most suitable playstyle for an effective PvE TR. There has to be a golden needle somewhere in the haystack. I wont be calling for a buff/nerf anytime soon. Cheers!
And good call on P. Lightning. AoE's with 0 target caps would benefit a lot from lightning bolts that can jump a maximum of 3 times from mob to mob.
tr's need single target buff not aoe.trs will never come close to other classes in aoe.only way to be viable is to be the best at something or at least very good i dont see tr aoe no where close.
maybe the best way to do this is to buff pve sets coz they are useless in next module for pvp anyway.
But IMO, as it stands, we don't anyway. So go Trickster & have fun.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...