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Trickster rogues needs to be buffed!
sinzspectra
Member Posts: 10 Arc User
Have anyone of you ever looked for a TR (trickster rogue) for DD (dungeon delve)? Most (if not all) of your answers would be "No". Reason being? TRs are too "weak" too "useless". This bring me to my point, TRs NEEDS to be buffed!
Game developers, if you guys created TR to be pvp orientated, then there are some problems there too. One being i have never seen a TR 1v5 and win the fight but, i have seen GWF ( great weapon fighters) 1 v 5 in PvP and win (occasionally 1 v 5+ in gauntlgrym pvp and still win). SO either we start seeing some class balancing or TR needs more sustainability + damage output. Because that 4 seconds of ITC ( impossible to catch) with it's 18sec cooldown hardly changes the outcome of a fight against a GWF.
If the TR WAS made just for PvP, then that itself is a serious problem. How can you make a class which is close to useless in a dungeon? How do you expect people to gear up that class when nobody wants them for dungeons?
I know assassin types usually have single target attacks that deal high damage but, TR's only skill that does that has almost 20sec cooldown. I have also seen CW ( control wizard ) ice knife doing over 200k damage ( some say they have seen close to a million)
So either make TRs more "useful" in PvE ( dungeons etc), give us TRs shorter cooldowns or give us more damage out put in PvE and PvP situation. Alternatively balance out the classes.
P.S try the game yourself during dungeon delve event, go to protector's enclave. I'll give you a dollar if you see anyone looking for a TR to go dungeon (apart from runners). Because everyone sterotypes TRs to "runner or useless".
P.P.S i'm a TR with 14.5k gear score so i'm not writing this just because i can't get gear. I'm writing this coz i feel TR are underrated and nobody cares for them.
Game developers, if you guys created TR to be pvp orientated, then there are some problems there too. One being i have never seen a TR 1v5 and win the fight but, i have seen GWF ( great weapon fighters) 1 v 5 in PvP and win (occasionally 1 v 5+ in gauntlgrym pvp and still win). SO either we start seeing some class balancing or TR needs more sustainability + damage output. Because that 4 seconds of ITC ( impossible to catch) with it's 18sec cooldown hardly changes the outcome of a fight against a GWF.
If the TR WAS made just for PvP, then that itself is a serious problem. How can you make a class which is close to useless in a dungeon? How do you expect people to gear up that class when nobody wants them for dungeons?
I know assassin types usually have single target attacks that deal high damage but, TR's only skill that does that has almost 20sec cooldown. I have also seen CW ( control wizard ) ice knife doing over 200k damage ( some say they have seen close to a million)
So either make TRs more "useful" in PvE ( dungeons etc), give us TRs shorter cooldowns or give us more damage out put in PvE and PvP situation. Alternatively balance out the classes.
P.S try the game yourself during dungeon delve event, go to protector's enclave. I'll give you a dollar if you see anyone looking for a TR to go dungeon (apart from runners). Because everyone sterotypes TRs to "runner or useless".
P.P.S i'm a TR with 14.5k gear score so i'm not writing this just because i can't get gear. I'm writing this coz i feel TR are underrated and nobody cares for them.
Post edited by sinzspectra on
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So right now, there could be just three classes in NW and nobody would notice. CWs are overpowered in PvE since their release and Cryptic never did and never will do anything about it. GWFs were once considered useless, then they got buffed and as all the stats in the game kept on increasing, they continued to get stronger until they got to where they are now. And almost all groups will always have that 1 DC, because who needs more healing classes, right? Let's add another dmg class! *cough* warlock *cough*
NW-DMFGWPBN3 The Lost City - Review Thread
Yes that i agree, i can 1 shot people in PvP with just lashing blade (cept GF and GWF like duhh fighters classes). So class balancing should really be considered in this situation.
TR need more skill variation too, coz the only damage skill any TR would use is lashing blade
It's the lack of intelligent PVE mechanics, not the TRs or GFs fault. It also doesn't help that the Dungeon Delve chest can only be opened at only specific times in the game. This leads people to lean towards speed running and exploiting, much more than legit and more casual dungeon runs, in order to make the most out of this 1 hour event.
For PVE in this game you need:
Heals: DC
Control for Adds: CW
AoE DPS: CW GWF HR
You see the issue, you can complete most dungeons with just DCs and CWs you don't really need anyone else. If you want to clear dungeons faster you need to stack more CWs.
Buffing TRs wont help it will just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> everyone off in PVP because you know 1 shotting. They need to design encounters that do not have the same ridiculous tactic over and over, or give all classes more control power and it needs to be aoe control. I don't think nerfing CW damage is the answer because once again PVP and soloing would be unbareable for CWs if this was done.
Any buffs or nerfs will throw the entire balance TRs have finally achieved off.
So, no to any changes to the TR.
So hopefully parties will be looking for 3 spaces for other classes rather than 0-2.
I have out DPSed countless numbers of average-Low CWs on my TR, and came close to the good ones even. If i could do it, then so could you.
Diminishing returns for debuffs, adding a debuff cap like the one from the high vizier zet (not more than one of each kind on a given mob), and restricting sudden storm to 5-10 targets at most, should do the job and remove any point stacking CWs, except extra control, maybe.
Inb4 "you are biased". My CW is my second main, i love him. But I don't like how he can make any content look stupid and unchallenging.
WTB Class Reroll please
I think that's one of the biggest problems people have. We have six or seven classes so far, yet people act like there's only three: DPS, healing and tank. That might be the main roles in a group, but we should never, ever limit ourselves to that. For that matter, there's all this talk about CWs controlling the enemies. But if so, why did we start to ignore the fourth role in the "holy trinity"? The controller? And for that matter, games like Secret World proved once and for all that most people don't even want to think outside the box. "No classes? Let's stick ot the trinity anyway." This is understandable, as that's what we are used to (except, as I said, there used to be four roles, not just three.) But if we can't think outside the box, we reduce the TR to a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> tank or <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> DPS. What we should to is let the TR be the TR, and play it like a TR. Instead of making it one of the worst classes by placing it in the wrong role, it can be classed of them all by playing it as it was intended.
IV Sent GWF. Game over, gentlemen.
Haha JK. I couldn't resist.
_;)
GF and TR not needed since gwf is the tank and dps in one.
It has been this way ever since TR bleed damage was nerfed so they are less useful on bosses now.
But TR is still great in pvp, just has no role in pve parties.
A ridiculous combo of both along with having high mobility.
P.S Also all classes have broken at-will, encounter, and daily, also feats, and paragon paths.
I've seen this trend in Cryptic from games they've made before as well... and the Hamidon would be about the last and final attempt they've made at introducing a content that required clockwork-precision to bring down. From that point on, throughout most games they've come up with, the raid/dungeon content stayed casual. Nothing in the game compares to the level of precision required in, for example, dungeon/raid content of WoW, where a rogue misses a single interrupt timing, or a tank loses aggro for 5 seconds, or DPS fail to bring something down within 10 minutes, and the party would be totally wiped, the end-result being loss of a lot of gold.
Compared to that, Cryptic games are casual and easy. Just learn the content and satisfy the GS restriction, and anyone with any build can clear it alongside friends. Speaking freely, its the people who demand only certain level of DPS or GS form parties to breeze through epic-dungeons, that are being snobbish and needlessly competitive over a content that can be enjoyed freely and casually. Yes, certain combination of classes can clear it faster, but so can any other combination (unless it is too extremely unbalanced). They made the content casual and easy to help more people enjoy it. It's those elitist people who are trying to make this game into something like WoW and WoW raiding communities, which is totally pointless and IMO does more harm than good to the whole of the player base.
TRs are fine where they are. In PvP even slightly OP. We don't need a buff. If anything we need a slight nerf (which is coming btw, which, IMO the Impact Shot nerf was frankly deserving, and probably more nerfs will be arriving in time). If anything, its those people you may have encountered, that should stop thinking this game as if this was WoW.
This ain't wow. Anyone can play. So can TRs.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
More like a great combination of healing, DPS, tankiness. ♥
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a vid of 3 IV Sents & 2 CW's clearing dungeons in the future.
I am part of an awesome guild so I don't have to deal with this problem, but it's not like it's a secret that most parties stack as many CWs as they can. I think Rogues are great at what thy're supposed to do - DPS, plus they have a couple more tricks up their sleeves. The problem is not with the classes. The problem is with how the dungeons are design. If you have to deal with hundreds upon hundreds of adds throughout a dungeon, I think its natural that parties are formed of the class that exceeds at CC.
As for PvP, you're not supposed to hold 5 enemies at a time, that's not what a Rogue does. But you can kill the guy that tries to hold 5 enemies at a time, and that's what a Rogue does.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
no wonder my 5gs tr beats 13gs pve tr in normal karr.
"That's new and never heard it before...LOL!!
Yes I too feel the stranglehold of my TR's crippling effect of lesser Hit point damage in dungeon quests; quests are not called instances in the D&D world as many seem to think. It is expected though as a rogue in any D&D game is only catered to massive HP damage when back stabbing or dealing damage through trap sets.
"Hmmmm....what no trap sets ugh!!" A rogue without th eability to set traps hmmmm....never heard of that before.
I like my lil rogue, I am however inclined to admit that it is at a disadvantage in a fight for the most part, but rogues usually are unless they stealth; which I advise most to participate in. In both LOTRO and in ddo you really felt the weakness of rogues if not played with stealth abilities as a primary offensive skill.
I could care less about buffs as that acronym doesn't belong with/in D&D adventures. The true word is "modifiers" in D&D. DDO went berserk and warped the whole game using buffs as the wow converts called them.
single target non named boss type maybe 50% it,
just trying to think outside of what we have now
Maybe a feat for smoke bomb that adds a poison to the cloud and high/fast DoT dmg/ debilitating
Because we can...
On topic. Coincidentally, it may be possible to create a decent AoE TR. I'm not really sure how viable it'll be. I do not have the gear or resources to test this build I have in mind, but if anyone's willing to test a Whisperknife Executioner, here's a build I put up together. Setherio also has a similar build which may be more optimal since he did extensive testing on it already.
So here's the gist of the build. This is a build that is 90% outside of Stealth. The Whisperknife's Vengeance's Pursuit doesn't have a cooldown, and the AoE it has for its non-stealth activation has no target cap, with a decent range too. I think it's possible to create a competitive PVE Executioner build for this, one that can possibly do a lot of AoE damage when played right. I'm thinking something like this would work.
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=pa7:25k6wj:1dsirk,1fi3iii:100000:15u000:1u0uz1&h=0&p=wkn
Race: Half-Orc, maximize STR and DEX for bigger damage and crits.
Gear: Swash. Ancient weapon set is enough. Stack ArP until 24%, stack crit until 50%, rest goes to Power.
Weapon/Armor Enchant: P. Vorpal/Soulforged.
At-Wills: Duelist's Flurry, Disheartening Strike.
- Duelist's Flurry and Dish Strike for insane single target Bleed Damage.
Encounters: Dazing Strike, Smokebomb, Vengeance's Pursuit.
- DS and SB for Dazing enemies in melee range, and VP for spamming AoE. It's our main source of damage.
Class Features: Tactics, Tenacious Concealment.
- Tactics to maximize AP gain, Tenacious Concealment to make it easier to regain stealth in time for escaping or activating Stealth utilities from Encounters.
Dailies: Lurker's Assault, Courage Breaker.
- Lurker's Assault for an additional 25% damage for 10 seconds, Courage Breaker for crippling the damage output of bosses if needed. But LA is what we want because it's an automatic 25% increase in DPS for 10 secs.
Straight up DPS sort of WK build. Spam VP all the time for AoE, use Smokebomb/Dazing Strike when things get hairy, and try to get Lurker's Assault as fast as possible for 10 seconds of 25% increased DPS. Milk the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of our crits with Vorpal, and play as a raging whirlwind of rage in dungeons.
We lose ITC, but we gain a spammable AoE.
The most profitable and difficult encounter has over 20adds at a time, requiring two Cws in all but the most skilled parties for a win (and yes I have win with two trs and one cw)
Look at a dungeon where the mobs are less trash like and have more, big uncontrollable targets -mc. I've win paingiver in mc aghast some decent Cws in tr. tr is amazingly useful in mc, melts the high priority mobs and slaughters the dragon and valindra with amazing speed.
So this is a problem with the design, not the class. If dungeons and profit were less about control and are and more about taking down a few powerful foes, tr would be amazing. They are great at what they are designed to do, it's just cn is an aoe fest.
Also in the interests if speeding up dungeons, we normally pull three large groups at a time and aoe them down, again rendering tr to a limited role.
I actually think the classes are fine as they are, just the dungeon design is flawed. My cw is my main, but she is really lacking in single target. I just wish I could play other classes and not think "I just should have brought cw" because we are fighting 20 things at once.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Another issue I see regularly is that my ability to disarm traps is virtually worthless in groups.
Of course, that's because the traps aren't dangerous enough to make people demand I disarm them ... & if they WERE that nasty, the forums would fill with people whining that now EVERY group requires a TR to navigate a dungeon, & it's too slow & boring to wait for the TR to disarm every trap, & so on.
It basically reduces us to being GWFs with a different look & feel.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...