Kweasa....I played wow for years...and yes, some of what you speak of exists, but you're grossly exaggerating. Frankly, I have yet to see a fraction of the sense of community and helping hands I saw in wow for years. Seriously. I was in many guilds, and never once saw people being shunned before being given a chance to show their capabilities, a chance to learn and practice and improve, before finally saying...no matter what you do, you're not going to get into the end game content unless you can improve, and we will help in every way we can.....which is just reality...so what's the difference? Nobody is going to be shunned from end game content with a new dps meter....than as it stands in the current game, already cannot get into that content.
Of course there will be elitist snobs, that's people, they're everywhere. They're already in game, and practicing their craft. Complaining about being able to get the best gear if you're underperforming is not an issue....as it stands now you're not going to get the best gear if you're underperforming. The dps meter is already there....you get a very good sense of your capabilities from the end of the dungeon meters. All a real meter would do is allow those interested in trying to squeeze out every drop of dmg/healing they can.
Basically, the dps meter is already in game, not much is going to change, except more detailed information on the numbers it is already giving you today.....And again, I think the sense of community will grow and guilds will get closer...instead of a few hundred guilds where only a handful even talk to each other or are friendly within, and the rest are just there for GG benefits...Really...been through 4 guilds since I started playing, and left each time when there would be 20 people on and NO ONE TALKS FOR HOURS and hours, literally. No community. That doesn't exist in the games current form, at least from my experience.
A DPS meter is not necessary in this game as it would only be useful a few of the classes. There are other factors that are necessary in order to have a successful dungeon run. Tanking, kiting, healing, and crowd control will not be measured by such a utility. Without those no matter how great your DPS is, you will fail.
I am not concerned about a DPS meter harming the community. As I have said before this is about the most unsocial MMO I have ever played, with the exception of a few pockets here and there. I have done entire runs where no one talks, not even Hello and Thanks. The Zone chat is filled with nothing but trolls, the LFG is filled with so-called hardcore elitist gamers, and there are entire guilds of people who never interact, because they only exist so people can get into GG. While I like the fact I can play most of the game solo, I also play to interact with others that enjoy D&D and the Forgotten Realms. In the end I want those who I adventure with to have had fun, I couldn't care less about how great or small their DPS was.
Well, at "totally top level" play, you could argue that bringing enough DPS makes healing unnecessary, tanking unnecessary, kiting unnecessary, and you only need crowd control to gather stuff into a lump you can melt.
Dead monsters don't need to be tanked, and don't do any damage.
Having said that, if they introduced a DPS meter I'd ignore it exactly like I ignore the end of dungeon stats.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
You guys against a proper damage meter don't understand one thing:
- we ALREADY have quite a good one, it's called ACT. In ACT we parse logs and we can see exactly the things you seem to want to be hidden
- some people seemingly want to underperform forever, and not improve
- even pressing X at the end of the run will make people into haves and havenots, regardless if it's not a good representation. I cannot remember how many times I was invited back in parties or asked for dungeon exactly because I topped that damage dealt chart.
So in conclusion:
- detailed damage meter is good, it allows you to analyze your performance (sometimes against better people in your class) and improve it where needed
- there's no "escape" from being sidelined if you're not performing "adequately" even today. A damage meter won't change anything. There will always be pros and newbies (who will become pros themselves in time, if they work for it)
Yes there is ACT, but it is a voluntary download for those who want those statistics. True some people don't want to improve, they like their character the way it is, why do they have to improve? Others want to improve, but perhaps not in DPS. Maybe they want to become better Healers, better Controllers, better Tanks, which might suite their play style better. Don't force something on everybody just because you think it is necessary to have in order to be a "pro-gamer".
The definition of "top level play" that you use is only one definition. It is not always about DPS. If it is only about DPS then just remove all of the non-PDS options from the Paragon trees, then we can all be clones of each other. A reason I don't play a rogue is I don't want to be assassin, I would want to be a Thief. Picking pockets, truly disarming traps, picking locks, finding those secret passages, scaling walls(not to find exploits), with a killing ability as a sideline. By focusing on DPS you are disregarding those classes which are not meant for DPS or forcing them into a DPS role, that make would make the setting very bland indeed.
In the end while there are people who care more about DPS than anything else, not everybody obsesses about it. I don't if care a player is the DPS leader, if he is a jackwagon I won't play with him again. Somebody that makes the dungeon fun even if they die one or two times more, or don't really kill much but contribute in other ways is more likely to get put on my friends list.
Oh, yeah, don't get me wrong: I'm not saying "it's all about the deeps", nor am I suggesting a DPS meter would be a good idea, it's just that if you're all geared enough to put out stupid-damage, most of the other stuff becomes entirely secondary.
At the level most of us will spend most of our time playing, control, aggro handling and healing all remain pretty relevant. It's just that a lot of these are pretty difficult to sum up in NUMBERZ: hell, the healing stat at the end doesn't even factor in mitigation, and mitigation is something that never really stops being useful.
Plus there are a boatload of much more nebulous things that contribute to an effective team: a CW with a lower damage output but much better situational awareness will be much less stressful to heal because they're not spending all their time doing ZOMG DMG while standing in fire. I've had teams with TRs that did exceptional damage but that didn't seem to know that the shift key existed.
TL: DR version, party with who you like partying with. If you get good group synergy then hold onto it, no matter what the NUMBERZ might be saying.
(ofc, I'm a DC, so it's not like I'm topping anything but the field medic charts anyway, and that's an uncontested category)
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Others want to improve, but perhaps not in DPS. Maybe they want to become better Healers, better Controllers, better Tanks, which might suite their play style better.
In the end while there are people who care more about DPS than anything else, not everybody obsesses about it.
"Damage Meter" is usually just MMO jargon for a tool that allows analysis of all kinds of stuff. In that other MMO there was healing done, healing per sec, damage done, DPS, threat per sec and some other stuff as well.
As for this game, things are quite a bit different from other MMOs. For example, CW should be Controller, yet a CW with low damage but good control is almost useless. Why? Because many of our damage skills also add CC. There's no need to gimp your damage output just to CC mobs more, when for 99% of the cases the Shard prone+Steal Time stun are enough...
... because dead mobs are always better than controlled (or tanked for that matter) mobs.
Conversely, if you're not geared enough to do killshot damage: lightly damaged but controlled mobs are always better than slightly more damaged totally uncontrolled mobs.
It's situational. Especially since in quite a few situations (i.e. boss fights) killing adds is not necessary or even advisable, but controlling them is very, very useful.
A DPS meter is not necessary in this game as it would only be useful a few of the classes. There are other factors that are necessary in order to have a successful dungeon run. Tanking, kiting, healing, and crowd control will not be measured by such a utility. Without those no matter how great your DPS is, you will fail.
I have to say your are pretty wrong here. This is the only game i have played that only focuses its entire dungeons on DPS. There is no coordination, tanking, healing that you are talking about. Everything is just a big fat DPS-race. Its why people are asking for it aswell i guess.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
how is using Oppressive force, not helping team. You must never have done anything difficult or you would know OF is a better CC than singularity vs many and red casting targets.
A good wizard know when to use either one.
+1
Personally i hate it when people open every fight with singularity. Often due to lag my shard goes off just at the wrong time and misses. OF is generally alot better in parties of people who know to position themselves.
To the OP: I agree, a DPS meter should be included, since the current situation emphazises those people who rush infront of all other to make the kills. Ok we have the sharandar boon which needs a constant refreshment of kills, but still its best to have such a meter, since we have these in-game meters anyways.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
How the heck is this thread not in The Lower Depths yet?
I will keep this simple:
If you want a Combat Parser that bad, write or modify one meant for another MMO and pull it up on a second screen. If you don't know how, then stop whining because you obviously don't want one bad enough - it would take an hour for you to learn. I promise you that you will never see one from the development team.
So it seems my analysis of the lack of a community in this game is shared by others....
I think a dps meter would lead to more tightly knit guilds, and I think tightly knit guilds would be a huge improvement, as it was most of the reason I stayed in wow for as long as I did....which means.....wait for it....MORE MONEY!!!
The lack of any type of community is why I am already thinking about trying other games, after only a couple months. It's odd that wow is the industry standard and many companies look at what they have done for cues (spelling?), yet avoid many of the things that made it so successful, which in my opinion was turning perfecting your class into a science and adding a real sense of progression with a close group of friends within guilds, or even alliances of guilds. Of course I may be wrong and a dps meter may do none of these things...but I think it will certainly help.
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radiick507Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2014
DPS Meters are only for the elitist to have a reason to boot people out of groups instead of helping them out with hints ideas etc.....May as well add Gear Checks and Weapons Checks before including players into Pugs.......I play this game for fun, if one groupie causes a wipe?? Then it is part of the game, plain and simple, he/she learns, we learn and the entire game/community is better for it!
Actually I have had more laughs at groups wipes then beating the final boss........But that is me.
I have to say your are pretty wrong here. This is the only game i have played that only focuses its entire dungeons on DPS. There is no coordination, tanking, healing that you are talking about. Everything is just a big fat DPS-race. Its why people are asking for it aswell i guess.
That's because this game is made casual and easy enough to be able to be cleared without a set "model group" for everything. The difficulty level is generally low to average in even the most epic of dungeons -- as compared to how some raid content in WoW would be notoriously difficult.
Meaning: the developers have already made it easy and casual enough to be played by a variety of classes, builds, and gear level. You don't really need a DPS meter to check anything. As long as someone is in the dungeon within the GS restriction, that person is enough -- the only difference being whether you clearly it a little bit more faster, or little bit slower, according to how well people are geared.
Basically speaking, you can play it coordinated IF YOU WANT TO. The "big fat DPS-race" you talking about, is actually a result of players playing the game stupidly and lazily just steamrolling it with raw and pure gear power.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I have to say your are pretty wrong here. This is the only game i have played that only focuses its entire dungeons on DPS. There is no coordination, tanking, healing that you are talking about. Everything is just a big fat DPS-race. Its why people are asking for it aswell i guess.
I always play coordinately with other players even in a pug I don't need to have someone communicating what I should do. I see what must be done and I react to the benefit of the team regardless of how op or not the team is.
I would care less if they did or didn't add a dps meter or whatever. Damage to me is meaningless; all it is how much till death. Without control theres less damage involved. Death will always come to enemies eventually and every class does damage some more than others.
Played every class before and past 11k without spending a dime so I can see spectrums that people who just started or just bought gear don't see.
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adernathMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And a section named Paingiver that gives you a idea of who is doing the most dmg...
DPS means "Damage Per Second". Not overal damage.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
Mind you, since everyone in the party takes the same amount of time to do the dungeon, why not just take the final paingiver total and divide by the time it took you to do it: BAM! DPS.
:P
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
And a section named Paingiver that gives you a idea of who is doing the most dmg...
That's very inaccurate. So many times I was just going my own pace through CN while other CWs were always in front ending up 1st on Paingiver, obviously they end up first on what statistic the game offers.
But then when I parsed in ACT the draco fight where we all started on same footing, I was actually the guy in front...
In other games squishies could not run amok in front in raids, elites would obliterate them FAST. This game is different and it creates this "DPS-mode" runs where all try to get first hits on
A detailed damage meter such as Recount would be awesome.
That is the dumbest argument yet. If you want to go at your own pace, then accept that others will zerg and kill more stuffs. If you really absolutely need to know that your deeps is better than their deeps, then use ACT, which you do.
You want to be able to mosy through a dungeon more slowly than your teammates while still being able to say "HEY CHECK OUT MAH DAMAGE PER UNIT TIME, YO", which is of benefit to approximately nobody.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
That is the dumbest argument yet. If you want to go at your own pace, then accept that others will zerg and kill more stuffs. If you really absolutely need to know that your deeps is better than their deeps, then use ACT, which you do.
You want to be able to mosy through a dungeon more slowly than your teammates while still being able to say "HEY CHECK OUT MAH DAMAGE PER UNIT TIME, YO", which is of benefit to approximately nobody.
Is this targeted at me?
Cause if there is, you understood nothing from my post.
Let's recap:
- Paingiver stat is inaccurate for who is best DPS, if we really really must talk about this
- I can't care less about people zerging in front and if they do more "damage dealt", truth is shown by ACT...
The true benefits of a detailed damage meter are NOT for personal bragging, but for personal improvement: you can see for example some guy with the same gear consistently hits for more than you, maybe it's time to reconsider some of your choices.
Also if we get a standardized DPS meter we might end up (in a few years I suppose...) with something like the worldoflogs website. I'll probably be long gone from the game by then, but it would be an awesome achievement for Neverwinter.
Ok, here's the big question: What benefits do you gain from a DPS meter that you don't gain from ACT?
It's bad enough that we have paingiver stats ALREADY, because it causes hilariously bad epeen swinging, and nonsensical debates over whether punting monsters off cliffs unfairly adjusts the paingiver totals and stuff. Adding MOAR NUMBERZ to what is in theory a team-based experience just serves to further drive wedges between people.
If personal improvement for you requires in-depth analysis of exact combat damage per unit time, then you can do all of that by reviewing the combat logs, in your own time, without also forcing it down anyone elses' throats.
You saying "The true benefits of a detailed damage meter are NOT for personal bragging" reveals a critical failure in assessing the attitude of your average MMO powergamer. That is EXACTLY what it would be used for, in the majority of cases.
I've seen it in zonechat with just paingiver, and it's painful to read sometimes.
"LOL I OUT DMGED A GUY WITH 3K MOAR GS TAHN ME"
...well, great. That will make them feel bad, and everyone else just annoyed by the mindless crappy zonechat spam. Plus it's entirely possible the person being outdamaged was spending the whole time dodging around trying to control the monsters and not die because the other guy was being a deeps-obsessed total moron.
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lordbawlzMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited January 2014
I'm against an addition of a DPS meter completely. I played WoW for years where competitive stakes were high. In this game, NOT doing enough damage isn't a matter of getting the boss down to 1% and reaching a soft enrage timer that instantly kills the party. That's WoW and other games, NOT NeverWinter. When you add meters and such you create expectations which in the current state of this game doesn't call for. Gearscore is even trivial as someone with full Epics and a 20K+ GS could have the WORST abilities slotted and get out DPS'd by someone in full greens. GS & DPS != Skill. However, it does inflate ego.
Overall damage is more than enough to quickly look at a situation and see if for example one TR is doing 100k while the other is doing 200k, and the CW is doing 150k. Hmm, maybe that's why the boss isn't going down quick enough? If you can't figure out the size of your epeen without a DPS meter, you're doing it wrong anyways. Just saying.
Ok, here's the big question: What benefits do you gain from a DPS meter that you don't gain from ACT?
Buffers are going to be seen. If you have a dps of 2000 and with a buffer you go to 3000 (see GF/DC/IV GWF/HR) u might want to pick that class again in the next grp.
There should be an option for single target dps (see TR) for boss fights so people can see what that class rly does. Was trying to play my Tr the other day and was impossible to get a grp even for a ****ty t2 that i;ve done countless times in the past.
There also should be an option for mitigated dmg so u can show your grp what u are doing for them as a tank, dmg taken means nothing.
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bajornorbertMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 272Arc User
edited January 2014
I don't see the point of adding a DPS meter to the game if that's all you add, but adding more and detailed stats would be awesome. A DPS meter alone, would just cause a lot of problems for ppls pugging. Adding a DPS meter will not end the LF4M GWF/CW, it will only make it even more widespread, since the majority of the people can't understand what a dps meter is for, and they'll take even more GWF/CWs.
On the other hand having more detailed statistics would be beneficial for improving your own character and making better groups. I would really love to see for eg. how much more dmg we do thx to a buffer/debuffer, or how much dmg we have not taken, thanks to that ACDC, how much threat i have, etc. There's room for a lot more statistics and would definitely benefit a lot of players.
Another, kind of unrelated statistics, i would love to see, is number of times the player has done each dungeon and each boss, success/failure/tries. This would be much more useful in many cases than a dps meter.
It's bad enough that we have paingiver stats ALREADY, because it causes hilariously bad epeen swinging, and nonsensical debates over whether punting monsters off cliffs unfairly adjusts the paingiver totals and stuff. Adding MOAR NUMBERZ to what is in theory a team-based experience just serves to further drive wedges between people.
But since we have these meters now (and i doubt that they will ever be removed), it is only an additional info showing in a convenient way the dps. I am also fine with an additional info of hps (heals per second) although i do not play a healer.
If personal improvement for you requires in-depth analysis of exact combat damage per unit time, then you can do all of that by reviewing the combat logs, in your own time, without also forcing it down anyone elses' throats.
You saying "The true benefits of a detailed damage meter are NOT for personal bragging" reveals a critical failure in assessing the attitude of your average MMO powergamer. That is EXACTLY what it would be used for, in the majority of cases.
I've seen it in zonechat with just paingiver, and it's painful to read sometimes.
"LOL I OUT DMGED A GUY WITH 3K MOAR GS TAHN ME"
...well, great. That will make them feel bad, and everyone else just annoyed by the mindless crappy zonechat spam. Plus it's entirely possible the person being outdamaged was spending the whole time dodging around trying to control the monsters and not die because the other guy was being a deeps-obsessed total moron.
Personally I do not even care if people brag about their dps. It also did not happen often in wow. I would find the system channel ("... has aquired a rust monster") or the goldseller spam more annoying.
Mind you, since everyone in the party takes the same amount of time to do the dungeon, why not just take the final paingiver total and divide by the time it took you to do it: BAM! DPS.
:P
Not really. For a proper dps meter you must only consider the time when the person is actually in combat.
Suggestions to improve NW:
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
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rickadams25Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Hi, is it possible to put in game dps meter or is there any add on to have one?? Becouse this dmagae dealt you cant really tell, ppl run 1st to do more dmg while you loot gold or for e.x CWs use more OF than Singu to do dmg and not helping team. And so on! So if anyone knows an add on pls post. Or the devs its not so hard to put a DPS meter after dmg dealt for e.x!!
I'm all for a DPS meter if it has detailed information like how much of my damage came from what abilities, etc. but DPS as a measure is useless. It's WAY more important to look at total damage because that's how much you actually contributed to the fight. Look, if you go all out draw all the agro or don't get out of the red circles and die within the first 10 seconds of the fight, you might just end up with the highest dps even though you contributed very little to downing that final boss fight. It would also be helpful if the meter or in game report would show this information by individual fights instead of in total, because who really cares about dps on trash?
I actually disagree. This game is very different to other MMOs. Here it isn't the boss that kills you, it's the mobs, so dps on mobs here is very important, not everyone can stay on the boss all the time, or you would wipe as you would get overwhelmed by mobs.
For me, from GWF point of view, a CW with lots of control is much more useful than a high dps one. This game is very dps oriented, which isn't wrong imo, because most people like playing dps classes, across all MMOs. I too enjoy killing stuff
Comments
Of course there will be elitist snobs, that's people, they're everywhere. They're already in game, and practicing their craft. Complaining about being able to get the best gear if you're underperforming is not an issue....as it stands now you're not going to get the best gear if you're underperforming. The dps meter is already there....you get a very good sense of your capabilities from the end of the dungeon meters. All a real meter would do is allow those interested in trying to squeeze out every drop of dmg/healing they can.
Basically, the dps meter is already in game, not much is going to change, except more detailed information on the numbers it is already giving you today.....And again, I think the sense of community will grow and guilds will get closer...instead of a few hundred guilds where only a handful even talk to each other or are friendly within, and the rest are just there for GG benefits...Really...been through 4 guilds since I started playing, and left each time when there would be 20 people on and NO ONE TALKS FOR HOURS and hours, literally. No community. That doesn't exist in the games current form, at least from my experience.
I am not concerned about a DPS meter harming the community. As I have said before this is about the most unsocial MMO I have ever played, with the exception of a few pockets here and there. I have done entire runs where no one talks, not even Hello and Thanks. The Zone chat is filled with nothing but trolls, the LFG is filled with so-called hardcore elitist gamers, and there are entire guilds of people who never interact, because they only exist so people can get into GG. While I like the fact I can play most of the game solo, I also play to interact with others that enjoy D&D and the Forgotten Realms. In the end I want those who I adventure with to have had fun, I couldn't care less about how great or small their DPS was.
Dead monsters don't need to be tanked, and don't do any damage.
Having said that, if they introduced a DPS meter I'd ignore it exactly like I ignore the end of dungeon stats.
- we ALREADY have quite a good one, it's called ACT. In ACT we parse logs and we can see exactly the things you seem to want to be hidden
- some people seemingly want to underperform forever, and not improve
- even pressing X at the end of the run will make people into haves and havenots, regardless if it's not a good representation. I cannot remember how many times I was invited back in parties or asked for dungeon exactly because I topped that damage dealt chart.
So in conclusion:
- detailed damage meter is good, it allows you to analyze your performance (sometimes against better people in your class) and improve it where needed
- there's no "escape" from being sidelined if you're not performing "adequately" even today. A damage meter won't change anything. There will always be pros and newbies (who will become pros themselves in time, if they work for it)
The definition of "top level play" that you use is only one definition. It is not always about DPS. If it is only about DPS then just remove all of the non-PDS options from the Paragon trees, then we can all be clones of each other. A reason I don't play a rogue is I don't want to be assassin, I would want to be a Thief. Picking pockets, truly disarming traps, picking locks, finding those secret passages, scaling walls(not to find exploits), with a killing ability as a sideline. By focusing on DPS you are disregarding those classes which are not meant for DPS or forcing them into a DPS role, that make would make the setting very bland indeed.
In the end while there are people who care more about DPS than anything else, not everybody obsesses about it. I don't if care a player is the DPS leader, if he is a jackwagon I won't play with him again. Somebody that makes the dungeon fun even if they die one or two times more, or don't really kill much but contribute in other ways is more likely to get put on my friends list.
At the level most of us will spend most of our time playing, control, aggro handling and healing all remain pretty relevant. It's just that a lot of these are pretty difficult to sum up in NUMBERZ: hell, the healing stat at the end doesn't even factor in mitigation, and mitigation is something that never really stops being useful.
Plus there are a boatload of much more nebulous things that contribute to an effective team: a CW with a lower damage output but much better situational awareness will be much less stressful to heal because they're not spending all their time doing ZOMG DMG while standing in fire. I've had teams with TRs that did exceptional damage but that didn't seem to know that the shift key existed.
TL: DR version, party with who you like partying with. If you get good group synergy then hold onto it, no matter what the NUMBERZ might be saying.
(ofc, I'm a DC, so it's not like I'm topping anything but the field medic charts anyway, and that's an uncontested category)
"Damage Meter" is usually just MMO jargon for a tool that allows analysis of all kinds of stuff. In that other MMO there was healing done, healing per sec, damage done, DPS, threat per sec and some other stuff as well.
As for this game, things are quite a bit different from other MMOs. For example, CW should be Controller, yet a CW with low damage but good control is almost useless. Why? Because many of our damage skills also add CC. There's no need to gimp your damage output just to CC mobs more, when for 99% of the cases the Shard prone+Steal Time stun are enough...
... because dead mobs are always better than controlled (or tanked for that matter) mobs.
It's situational. Especially since in quite a few situations (i.e. boss fights) killing adds is not necessary or even advisable, but controlling them is very, very useful.
I have to say your are pretty wrong here. This is the only game i have played that only focuses its entire dungeons on DPS. There is no coordination, tanking, healing that you are talking about. Everything is just a big fat DPS-race. Its why people are asking for it aswell i guess.
+1
Personally i hate it when people open every fight with singularity. Often due to lag my shard goes off just at the wrong time and misses. OF is generally alot better in parties of people who know to position themselves.
To the OP: I agree, a DPS meter should be included, since the current situation emphazises those people who rush infront of all other to make the kills. Ok we have the sharandar boon which needs a constant refreshment of kills, but still its best to have such a meter, since we have these in-game meters anyways.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I will keep this simple:
If you want a Combat Parser that bad, write or modify one meant for another MMO and pull it up on a second screen. If you don't know how, then stop whining because you obviously don't want one bad enough - it would take an hour for you to learn. I promise you that you will never see one from the development team.
And for God's sake stop bashing each other.
I think a dps meter would lead to more tightly knit guilds, and I think tightly knit guilds would be a huge improvement, as it was most of the reason I stayed in wow for as long as I did....which means.....wait for it....MORE MONEY!!!
The lack of any type of community is why I am already thinking about trying other games, after only a couple months. It's odd that wow is the industry standard and many companies look at what they have done for cues (spelling?), yet avoid many of the things that made it so successful, which in my opinion was turning perfecting your class into a science and adding a real sense of progression with a close group of friends within guilds, or even alliances of guilds. Of course I may be wrong and a dps meter may do none of these things...but I think it will certainly help.
Actually I have had more laughs at groups wipes then beating the final boss........But that is me.
That's because this game is made casual and easy enough to be able to be cleared without a set "model group" for everything. The difficulty level is generally low to average in even the most epic of dungeons -- as compared to how some raid content in WoW would be notoriously difficult.
Meaning: the developers have already made it easy and casual enough to be played by a variety of classes, builds, and gear level. You don't really need a DPS meter to check anything. As long as someone is in the dungeon within the GS restriction, that person is enough -- the only difference being whether you clearly it a little bit more faster, or little bit slower, according to how well people are geared.
Basically speaking, you can play it coordinated IF YOU WANT TO. The "big fat DPS-race" you talking about, is actually a result of players playing the game stupidly and lazily just steamrolling it with raw and pure gear power.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
There is a key called X
And a section named Paingiver that gives you a idea of who is doing the most dmg...
I always play coordinately with other players even in a pug I don't need to have someone communicating what I should do. I see what must be done and I react to the benefit of the team regardless of how op or not the team is.
I would care less if they did or didn't add a dps meter or whatever. Damage to me is meaningless; all it is how much till death. Without control theres less damage involved. Death will always come to enemies eventually and every class does damage some more than others.
Played every class before and past 11k without spending a dime so I can see spectrums that people who just started or just bought gear don't see.
DPS means "Damage Per Second". Not overal damage.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
:P
That's very inaccurate. So many times I was just going my own pace through CN while other CWs were always in front ending up 1st on Paingiver, obviously they end up first on what statistic the game offers.
But then when I parsed in ACT the draco fight where we all started on same footing, I was actually the guy in front...
In other games squishies could not run amok in front in raids, elites would obliterate them FAST. This game is different and it creates this "DPS-mode" runs where all try to get first hits on
A detailed damage meter such as Recount would be awesome.
You want to be able to mosy through a dungeon more slowly than your teammates while still being able to say "HEY CHECK OUT MAH DAMAGE PER UNIT TIME, YO", which is of benefit to approximately nobody.
Is this targeted at me?
Cause if there is, you understood nothing from my post.
Let's recap:
- Paingiver stat is inaccurate for who is best DPS, if we really really must talk about this
- I can't care less about people zerging in front and if they do more "damage dealt", truth is shown by ACT...
The true benefits of a detailed damage meter are NOT for personal bragging, but for personal improvement: you can see for example some guy with the same gear consistently hits for more than you, maybe it's time to reconsider some of your choices.
Also if we get a standardized DPS meter we might end up (in a few years I suppose...) with something like the worldoflogs website. I'll probably be long gone from the game by then, but it would be an awesome achievement for Neverwinter.
It's bad enough that we have paingiver stats ALREADY, because it causes hilariously bad epeen swinging, and nonsensical debates over whether punting monsters off cliffs unfairly adjusts the paingiver totals and stuff. Adding MOAR NUMBERZ to what is in theory a team-based experience just serves to further drive wedges between people.
If personal improvement for you requires in-depth analysis of exact combat damage per unit time, then you can do all of that by reviewing the combat logs, in your own time, without also forcing it down anyone elses' throats.
You saying "The true benefits of a detailed damage meter are NOT for personal bragging" reveals a critical failure in assessing the attitude of your average MMO powergamer. That is EXACTLY what it would be used for, in the majority of cases.
I've seen it in zonechat with just paingiver, and it's painful to read sometimes.
"LOL I OUT DMGED A GUY WITH 3K MOAR GS TAHN ME"
...well, great. That will make them feel bad, and everyone else just annoyed by the mindless crappy zonechat spam. Plus it's entirely possible the person being outdamaged was spending the whole time dodging around trying to control the monsters and not die because the other guy was being a deeps-obsessed total moron.
Overall damage is more than enough to quickly look at a situation and see if for example one TR is doing 100k while the other is doing 200k, and the CW is doing 150k. Hmm, maybe that's why the boss isn't going down quick enough? If you can't figure out the size of your epeen without a DPS meter, you're doing it wrong anyways. Just saying.
Buffers are going to be seen. If you have a dps of 2000 and with a buffer you go to 3000 (see GF/DC/IV GWF/HR) u might want to pick that class again in the next grp.
There should be an option for single target dps (see TR) for boss fights so people can see what that class rly does. Was trying to play my Tr the other day and was impossible to get a grp even for a ****ty t2 that i;ve done countless times in the past.
There also should be an option for mitigated dmg so u can show your grp what u are doing for them as a tank, dmg taken means nothing.
On the other hand having more detailed statistics would be beneficial for improving your own character and making better groups. I would really love to see for eg. how much more dmg we do thx to a buffer/debuffer, or how much dmg we have not taken, thanks to that ACDC, how much threat i have, etc. There's room for a lot more statistics and would definitely benefit a lot of players.
Another, kind of unrelated statistics, i would love to see, is number of times the player has done each dungeon and each boss, success/failure/tries. This would be much more useful in many cases than a dps meter.
Not really. For a proper dps meter you must only consider the time when the person is actually in combat.
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
I'm all for a DPS meter if it has detailed information like how much of my damage came from what abilities, etc. but DPS as a measure is useless. It's WAY more important to look at total damage because that's how much you actually contributed to the fight. Look, if you go all out draw all the agro or don't get out of the red circles and die within the first 10 seconds of the fight, you might just end up with the highest dps even though you contributed very little to downing that final boss fight. It would also be helpful if the meter or in game report would show this information by individual fights instead of in total, because who really cares about dps on trash?
For me, from GWF point of view, a CW with lots of control is much more useful than a high dps one. This game is very dps oriented, which isn't wrong imo, because most people like playing dps classes, across all MMOs. I too enjoy killing stuff