Getting kicked after the last Boss.

komodoone · January 2014

Anything you can do about it?

bioshrike · January 2014

Were you voted out by the other 4 members of your party? I thought they implemented a vote system to prevent a team leader from bullying people or taking advantage like this...

komodoone · January 2014

Well three others then, I saw the vote window come up for another guy, I clicked NO, a second letter he was gone, then I was kicked.

bananachef · January 2014

Almost makes you wish we could have a running blacklist were it not for the obvious complications and rules against it.

bioshrike · January 2014

komodoone wrote: »

Well three others then, I saw the vote window come up for another guy, I clicked NO, a second letter he was gone, then I was kicked.

Unfortunately, you must be mindful of who you team with - in the case you described, it sounds like you were dealing with 3 friends who couldn't find a 4th and 5th to team with, so used the queue to fill those spots - they then probably colluded to kick the other 2 team members so as to save the boss drop for themselves.

I may be wrong, but I think you can kind of prevent this to some extent, by choosing the option to prompt you to switch zones, instead of auto-placing you, (if that's still an option).

dardove · January 2014

bioshrike wrote: »

I may be wrong, but I think you can kind of prevent this to some extent, by choosing the option to prompt you to switch zones, instead of auto-placing you, (if that's still an option).

That was removed around live launch.

nwnghost · January 2014

bioshrike wrote: »

Unfortunately, you must be mindful of who you team with - in the case you described, it sounds like you were dealing with 3 friends who couldn't find a 4th and 5th to team with, so used the queue to fill those spots - they then probably colluded to kick the other 2 team members so as to save the boss drop for themselves.

I may be wrong, but I think you can kind of prevent this to some extent, by choosing the option to prompt you to switch zones, instead of auto-placing you, (if that's still an option).

Or 2.
The sad thing with the current system is that you only need 1 other person to agree to kick at all times.
I.e. 5 players, vote initiated. person voted against is excluded from vote. it takes 50% to kick with the initiator being 1 and 1 friend being the other (tie = kick), unless that's changed over the last couple of patches.

judicas · January 2014

Tends to happen with a lot of the morons now. I am very shocked that you can still vote kick people both during and AFTER boss battle. It really should be disabled as soon as boss battle is started.

bioshrike · January 2014

judicas wrote: »

Tends to happen with a lot of the morons now. I am very shocked that you can still vote kick people both during and AFTER boss battle. It really should be disabled as soon as boss battle is started.

I agree with this: No votes permitted while in combat, and for about 5 minutes after any boss battle has concluded. If a person is truly doing something that would call for them to be kicked, it should have been addressed before the team got to the boss and began fighting them...

tripsofthrymr · January 2014

judicas wrote: »

Tends to happen with a lot of the morons now. I am very shocked that you can still vote kick people both during and AFTER boss battle. It really should be disabled as soon as boss battle is started.

That would not work, because a legitimate (imho) reason to kick someone is if the party agrees in advance to a greed run, and someone needs the final boss drop. They don't actually get it (unless things have changed) if they are vote-kicked as long as someone has yet to roll.

bigdan2011 · January 2014

I've actually gotten into a few MC 3/3 runs by using the Queue system and was kicked multiple times because they wanted the loot to them self. "I myself do not like that you can just spam kick without a valid reason"

roller300 · January 2014

a few weeks ago my main was the lucky recipient of a boot in a skirmish. 10 seconds after the boss was defeated. no reason given ... chest reward was unclaimed, despite i opened the chest first...

at least i saved their names for future safety

kolbe11 · January 2014

I will say that I HAVE kicked people our during/after a boss fight. Why? They were PUG's coming in on our remaining party (guildy had to leave) DURING MC 3/3 and none of us wanted to give handouts to some "lucky" recipient who had not worked for it.

I feel for those who have had the system worked against them, but it is A LOT better than what it used to be (1 person with all the power).

grogthemagnif · January 2014

That is definitely needed.

judicas wrote: »

Tends to happen with a lot of the morons now. I am very shocked that you can still vote kick people both during and AFTER boss battle. It really should be disabled as soon as boss battle is started.

elminster · January 2014

As tough as it would be having to deal with late comers to fights snagging free drops, I fully support locking out party kicks until 3 minutes after combat. This way people like the OP won't just randomly get booted by greedy parties, but parties with legitimate reasons to kick won't have to wait a ridiculous time either. This also works well because the roll time is roughly 3 minutes along with the time to pick items off the ground, so the party couldn't just say not pick up the items to prevent the odd man out from getting it, nor could they boot them during a roll.

Edit: They could also edit the party finder in two ways. First they allow the party to initiate the queue instead of automatically activating it, then they disable the party finder during combat. This gives the party control over whether or not they want to continue with a man short, and if they end up staying the boss fight it prevents late joiners from getting free drops.

dndmasterdark · January 2014

Vote kicking should have nothing to do with people rolling need on items. That said, greed only runs are a matter of trusting the people you are running with. I have trust issues as such I do not run greed runs ever.... That is best left to guilds or good friends imo.

Being able to votekick while loot is on the ground (regarding purples) or for 1 min after combat (should be enough time to loot after a boss is downed) should have been a given when votekick was patched into the game. I myself tried to make this clear before votekick was brought in (in a discussion about upcoming votekick changes)... and dunno why it was ignored. But whatever.

The one thing they did seem to add which is nice was that a reason for the votekick is needed to start the vote.

I'm sure they will fix this eventually, but they seem to be taking this new votekick thing one step at a time to show why they are making certain changes they way they are making them (if that makes any sense)

I think the issue about greed run ninjas could be dealt with by simply ignoring the ninja and never grouping with him again. Ignore account seems to be great for that kinda thing, and thank you for that Cryptic!

Also votekicking during a loot roll should not ever be allowed as well. Again... I feel vote kicking and looting issues are completely two seperate issues and should never be mixed up together. If people could votekick because buddy keeps winning loot, you bet ur butt they will do it... and that is just wrong.

Again just my 2 cents.

imsmithy · January 2014

bioshrike wrote: »

I agree with this: No votes permitted while in combat, and for about 5 minutes after any boss battle has concluded. If a person is truly doing something that would call for them to be kicked, it should have been addressed before the team got to the boss and began fighting them...

This would be a good solution to the problem.

roller300 wrote: »

a few weeks ago my main was the lucky recipient of a boot in a skirmish.

You got kicked from a skirmish O_o wtf is wrong with the people who do this...

pers3phone · January 2014

One of these days I didn't have time to play with my usual friends and decided to completely pug a dungeon instead, just like old times, for nostalgia purposes. Ended up on a PK party without DC, all things went normal, we start last boss fight, and then bam, popup comes "A vote has started to kick player X" or something.

Huh? Why?

I didn't see the guy doing ANYTHING remotely unusual. He was performing just fine for his 10K GS on a HR.

So I refused to vote yes and the guy remained and got his loot, then I told him after the fight what happened so he can add to ignore the people we were playing with. It was so stupid. I had to rush to the chest and get my loot cause I feared they will start another vote to remove me too.

So this was my last pug run ever. I advice anybody to make friends as fast as possible in the game and only run with them or in a party with a majority of known people. I've never been kicked out of a dungeon during past runs, but I'm pretty sure people would kick me if I pug just to grief/get more AD from loot etc. with this new mechanic. Is it needed? Sure, we need vote to kick. But it needs to be refined.

nwnghost · January 2014

dndmasterdark wrote: »

The one thing they did seem to add which is nice was that a reason for the votekick is needed to start the vote.

The pugs I've been in the reason is usually "dklaewkan" or "abcde" and people end up kicked because the most common denominator likes to click yes.

So I don't think having to enter a reason seems to deter any of those folks.

I for one think there needs to be:
1. A cooldown. After a votekick fails against a certain player, no further votekicks can be initiated against them for 10 minutes.
2. Restricting when you can initiate kicks: Not during combat (both for fairness and because it actually gets people killed being unable to move and having to deal with a popup that requires you to click)
3. Disable kicking the moment the final boss has died.

luform · January 2014

nwnghost wrote: »

The pugs I've been in the reason is usually "dklaewkan" or "abcde" and people end up kicked because the most common denominator likes to click yes.

So I don't think having to enter a reason seems to deter any of those folks.

I for one think there needs to be:
1. A cooldown. After a votekick fails against a certain player, no further votekicks can be initiated against them for 10 minutes.
2. Restricting when you can initiate kicks: Not during combat (both for fairness and because it actually gets people killed being unable to move and having to deal with a popup that requires you to click)
3. Disable kicking the moment the final boss has died.

Agree with point 3 but for point 2, I might want to add that during any kind of combats (i.e. combat with final boss or mobs), queue system should not add pug into the team as they cannot join in the battle that has already started and just wait for free loot.

For point 1, I would like to add that no players from the same guild cannot be added to the crippled pug via queue because from my experience, there is a 75% chance of guild gang vote-kick coming up before the team enter last boss fight.

My advice for players joining pug for dungeons before the team entering the instance would be to leave party immediately after u check and find out that 2 are from the same guild unless u know those guys, like friends for quite some time. However, I gonna tell u that there are players who can play on your trust.

jenisyde · January 2014

Never experienced this as I don't run pugs, but it must be very frustrating to deal with. No vote kicks during fights or after last objective completed (killing boss). That should definitely help from what i've read from previous suggestions.

twstdecho · January 2014

Party leader should be able to turn off random joins. This would prevent random people jumping into the group at the end and getting a chance at loot they didn't earn.

Make this change in conjunction with the following: Anyone participating in a boss fight participates in the loot roll, even if they got vote kicked. So, greedy groups want to kick someone before the end of a boss fight and not share the loot can't abuse the vote kick. Second, move the DD chest outside the instance and into PE. Get vote kicked after killing the boss on a DD run? You can still pick up the chest in PE.

Have someone in the group that doesn't actively participate in the boss fight now, knowing they get loot regardless? Let the party wipe, vote kick, then restart the boss fight.

helpimblindinrl · January 2014

There are good reasons to kick at the end. If you are finishing up the boss and some guy turns up and is just waiting there waiting to roll on the item obviously he should get kicked. If you somehow wipe and he helps in round 2 he gets a roll, that's fair enough but if you are in spell plague and this guy starts crossing the bridge and your first thought is wait who is that guy he has to go.

The other situation I've seen it and been ok with it is in DK where you do 3 runs and everyone agreed to greed and for 2 runs that was fine and then suddenly some guy needs, sorry but get out.

krinaman · January 2014

All you can really do is report the people doing it. Hopefully people are getting banned for this but I wouldn't hold your breath.

evalira · January 2014

I've been kicked several times so people can get the loot. I've reported people but just get the response "it will be investigated but due to privacy we cannot reveal the outcome" (or something like that).

This really puts me off doing dungeons now and since no one wants a GF in a group since mod 2 (other than FH) I have no choice but to pug. I'd hope the vote to kick would fix things but seems it is still happening.

Any update needs to prevent kicking once in the final boss fight has started and should probably take into account the percentage of the total damage dealt prior to the vote request so if someone has contributed their fair share they cannot be kicked unless they have disconnected or are AFK too long. Also have a greed only option so that people can't ninja loot if doing a greed run thus eliminating the need to kick people for that.

diogene0 · January 2014

nwnghost wrote: »

The pugs I've been in the reason is usually "dklaewkan" or "abcde" and people end up kicked because the most common denominator likes to click yes.

So I don't think having to enter a reason seems to deter any of those folks.

I for one think there needs to be:
1. A cooldown. After a votekick fails against a certain player, no further votekicks can be initiated against them for 10 minutes.
2. Restricting when you can initiate kicks: Not during combat (both for fairness and because it actually gets people killed being unable to move and having to deal with a popup that requires you to click)
3. Disable kicking the moment the final boss has died.

Then the devs have to disable reinforcements when the vote too kick is disabled too. I fully admit that i've already kicked people during or after a final boss kill, just because someone else left and a genius think it's smart to queue repeatedly to get free loot while idling near the campfire. No more vote to kick abuse, but they first need to get rid of free riders.

A party leader should also be able to disable reinforcements whenever he wants to. Having someone forced to leave the group and being forced to deal with a random moron messing up everything is extremely annoying.

stercogburn · January 2014

It seems sensible to lock kicking and prevent it from the moment the final boss dies. This includes vote-kicking.

Once the final boss in any dungeon is dead there is no legitimate reason to kick anyone. Lets face it, if someone was spoiling the run the situation should have been dealt with long before then. The 'group' has made a decision to carry on and should face up to their own choices.

jenisyde · January 2014

evalira wrote: »

I've been kicked several times so people can get the loot. I've reported people but just get the response "it will be investigated but due to privacy we cannot reveal the outcome" (or something like that).

This really puts me off doing dungeons now and since no one wants a GF in a group since mod 2 (other than FH) I have no choice but to pug. I'd hope the vote to kick would fix things but seems it is still happening.

Any update needs to prevent kicking once in the final boss fight has started and should probably take into account the percentage of the total damage dealt prior to the vote request so if someone has contributed their fair share they cannot be kicked unless they have disconnected or are AFK too long. Also have a greed only option so that people can't ninja loot if doing a greed run thus eliminating the need to kick people for that.

Is this a thing? Does the general community feel this way about GF? Sorry to hear about the lack of need for GF in PUG groups

diogene0 · January 2014

jenisyde wrote: »

Is this a thing? Does the general community feel this way about GF? Sorry to hear about the lack of need for GF in PUG groups

The game is now extremely easy since mod. 2. There's nothing hitting hard enough that can't be controlled to require a tank.

jenisyde · January 2014

diogene0 wrote: »

The game is now extremely easy since mod. 2. There's nothing hitting hard enough that can't be controlled to require a tank.

With the addition of mod 2, artifects, ect, it has been easier. I really just had no idea that GF get excluded in the common PUG group. Thank you for the insight.

Getting kicked after the last Boss.

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