Develop your earning potential? I was under the impression this was a game...not ppd software for bankers.
Since when were items free in games? I've never played an MMORPG where you didn't have to earn something to obtain what you wanted, either by earning it through direct effort (dropping the item) or through indirect effort (selling and purchasing in the auction house until you can afford to buy what you want).
Even if you intend to drop every piece of equipment your character puts on, and to drop every enhancement and runestone, you still have to find a way to cover other expenses such as potions, healing kits, upgrading enchantments and runestones, and so forth. As such, one has to develop some kind of earning potential in the game one way of the other.
So, let us not be silly and pretend that developing in game earning potential isn't part of playing most, if not all, MMORPGs.
35.00 for a pet per character, 5.00 plus for cosmetic changes per character and the list goes on, not to mention the prolific drop rate of boxes and the low, very low, drop rate. Not sure if some of you are employed by PW or not, but any reasonable person will view this for what it is. I have to wonder how many folk have simply closed their wallets and how many have lost interest in relation to these things. Great game, loads of fun to be had, have to have a fly in the ointment, way of things these days.
The best pet costs $20, per character, unless you take the time to earn the AD for it in game, exchange it for zen, and then purchase the pet for the zen, in which case it costs $0.
All my many cosmetic changes on several of my characters cost me $0, as they were funded primarily with invocation by those characters, and secondarily with some Foundry dailies by those characters.
Keys can be purchased to open boxes, to be sure, but they can also be opened at no cost by buying keys using zen purchased with AD earned in the game if a particular players does not with to pay cash for them.
Spending money on these things is definitely the fast track way, which I do use for Stones of Allure, but all of it can be obtained for free using the slow track method if one doesn't wish to pay cash for that.
Basically, the cost of this game is determined by a person's patience, not the prices. For the very patient, the cost is $0. As one's patience declines the cost of the game goes up.
The cost can also go up for those that are money rich and time poor, to make up for the smaller amount of time they have to earn things through game play, but even that goes back to patience to some degree.
Economic sinks are completely HAMSTER. The purpose of adventuring in dnd was to amass wealth, so their is no reason to have ANY AD sinks in this game, since they are the defacto currency of the game. Hell before you could get "followers" in 1st edition dnd, you had to construct a stronghold, which would cost hundreds of thousands of gold AND had a monthly upkeep that had to be paid for, just like in real life. You want an ad sink, then create player housing like in EQ2.
I get the OP is one of those "I want my cake and eat it too" types of people. If you don't want to grind AD to get it like the rest of the people who did, then buy zen and exchange it for AD. To be honest, the game should have had all cosmetic changes be linked to Zen to begin with - that way people wouldn't complain the game is a Pay-2-win game.
You really shouldn't complain about cosmetic charges when you are not paying in the first place.
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cenobite451Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 87
Economic sinks are completely HAMSTER. The purpose of adventuring in dnd was to amass wealth, so their is no reason to have ANY AD sinks in this game, since they are the defacto currency of the game. Hell before you could get "followers" in 1st edition dnd, you had to construct a stronghold, which would cost hundreds of thousands of gold AND had a monthly upkeep that had to be paid for, just like in real life. You want an ad sink, then create player housing like in EQ2.
Hell before you could get "followers" in 1st edition dnd, you had to construct a stronghold, which would cost hundreds of thousands of gold AND had a monthly upkeep that had to be paid for, just like in real life.
If that's not an economic sink then I don't know what is.
That said, the sinks aren't there for verisimilitude, they're there to keep the economy comparatively stable - no mean feat in an environment of theoretically limitless wealth. If you don't have sinks, inflation grows out of control, and the barrier to entry becomes absurdly high for new players.
That said, player housing would be pretty damned awesome. But there are things that need to be fixed first. Like those wonky bloody greatswords...
All you got here is a lot of blather about fallacies and nothing of substance to contradict their price setting knowledge. Anybody can pull accusations of fallacy out of their hat. They don't amount to a hill of beans when served up on their own.
Their expertise is shown by their ability to successfully run many MMORPGs over a considerable period of time that either include cash shops as part of the payment model or form the backbone of that model. They wouldn't be able to do that if they didn't know how to set prices at a point that would bring in the money they are looking for.
I think you're mistaking your subjective definitions with other folks definitions of them.
There have been "plenty" of MMORPG companies that have "successfully" floated several MMORPG's at once on the market and done so by employing financially unscrupulous tactics, or are you saying that all those MMORPG's such as ZTonline, were in fact experts at making successful games, and not experts at gouging money?
FYI that's not a bash or dig at NWO. I'm just saying having an MMORPG being active on the market, doesn't automatically equate to said MMORPG being an indication that they're experts in the field of monetizing the f2p model, it can also mean simply that they're experts at gouging gullible people.
When I start seeing NWO being reference by other companies as a leading example of success, and not a blind follower of some of the most undesirable elements of the f2p mmo paradigm, THEN and only THEN. Will I be content to sit back and say yeah, these guys are "experts" in making a good f2p financial model.
Then again, your entire argument was silly anyways and missed the point, which was if folks are going to keep on coming back to these silly tried and easily "defeated because they're fallacies" arguments, then no one is going to come up with any REAL discussion on the topic.
If you respond to this thread and immediately frame everyone who disagrees with you as a whiner, you're appealing to ridicule.
If you respond to thsi thread and you make out folks are asking for something ludicrous when NO ONE has said it, you're making a straw man argument.
If you respond to this thread and dismiss complaints with the "if you don't like it don't play it/buy it" argument etc, that's dismissive fallacy and as I stated, akin to victim blaming in it's flawed logic.
If you respond to this thread and flame folks or generally attack them, ad hominem
Guess what a large amount of the posts I read on EVERY single discussion about NWO's financial model entail?
A good ol heavy dose of these fallacies. If you can't at least avoid these basic flawed arguments?
well I don't see why folks shouldn't point out that they're simply wrong and completely detrimental to any sort of discussion.
And unlike the fallacy of being dismissive, if you refuse to take part in a discussion without making sure you avoid those basic pitfalls in logic, then you really shouldn't post. Not because folks will have trouble answering you, but because you're not contributing to the discussion AT ALL in other words, you're spamming.
Comments
Since when were items free in games? I've never played an MMORPG where you didn't have to earn something to obtain what you wanted, either by earning it through direct effort (dropping the item) or through indirect effort (selling and purchasing in the auction house until you can afford to buy what you want).
Even if you intend to drop every piece of equipment your character puts on, and to drop every enhancement and runestone, you still have to find a way to cover other expenses such as potions, healing kits, upgrading enchantments and runestones, and so forth. As such, one has to develop some kind of earning potential in the game one way of the other.
So, let us not be silly and pretend that developing in game earning potential isn't part of playing most, if not all, MMORPGs.
The best pet costs $20, per character, unless you take the time to earn the AD for it in game, exchange it for zen, and then purchase the pet for the zen, in which case it costs $0.
All my many cosmetic changes on several of my characters cost me $0, as they were funded primarily with invocation by those characters, and secondarily with some Foundry dailies by those characters.
Keys can be purchased to open boxes, to be sure, but they can also be opened at no cost by buying keys using zen purchased with AD earned in the game if a particular players does not with to pay cash for them.
Spending money on these things is definitely the fast track way, which I do use for Stones of Allure, but all of it can be obtained for free using the slow track method if one doesn't wish to pay cash for that.
Basically, the cost of this game is determined by a person's patience, not the prices. For the very patient, the cost is $0. As one's patience declines the cost of the game goes up.
The cost can also go up for those that are money rich and time poor, to make up for the smaller amount of time they have to earn things through game play, but even that goes back to patience to some degree.
You really shouldn't complain about cosmetic charges when you are not paying in the first place.
If that's not an economic sink then I don't know what is.
That said, the sinks aren't there for verisimilitude, they're there to keep the economy comparatively stable - no mean feat in an environment of theoretically limitless wealth. If you don't have sinks, inflation grows out of control, and the barrier to entry becomes absurdly high for new players.
That said, player housing would be pretty damned awesome. But there are things that need to be fixed first. Like those wonky bloody greatswords...
I think you're mistaking your subjective definitions with other folks definitions of them.
There have been "plenty" of MMORPG companies that have "successfully" floated several MMORPG's at once on the market and done so by employing financially unscrupulous tactics, or are you saying that all those MMORPG's such as ZTonline, were in fact experts at making successful games, and not experts at gouging money?
FYI that's not a bash or dig at NWO. I'm just saying having an MMORPG being active on the market, doesn't automatically equate to said MMORPG being an indication that they're experts in the field of monetizing the f2p model, it can also mean simply that they're experts at gouging gullible people.
When I start seeing NWO being reference by other companies as a leading example of success, and not a blind follower of some of the most undesirable elements of the f2p mmo paradigm, THEN and only THEN. Will I be content to sit back and say yeah, these guys are "experts" in making a good f2p financial model.
Then again, your entire argument was silly anyways and missed the point, which was if folks are going to keep on coming back to these silly tried and easily "defeated because they're fallacies" arguments, then no one is going to come up with any REAL discussion on the topic.
If you respond to this thread and immediately frame everyone who disagrees with you as a whiner, you're appealing to ridicule.
If you respond to thsi thread and you make out folks are asking for something ludicrous when NO ONE has said it, you're making a straw man argument.
If you respond to this thread and dismiss complaints with the "if you don't like it don't play it/buy it" argument etc, that's dismissive fallacy and as I stated, akin to victim blaming in it's flawed logic.
If you respond to this thread and flame folks or generally attack them, ad hominem
Guess what a large amount of the posts I read on EVERY single discussion about NWO's financial model entail?
A good ol heavy dose of these fallacies. If you can't at least avoid these basic flawed arguments?
well I don't see why folks shouldn't point out that they're simply wrong and completely detrimental to any sort of discussion.
And unlike the fallacy of being dismissive, if you refuse to take part in a discussion without making sure you avoid those basic pitfalls in logic, then you really shouldn't post. Not because folks will have trouble answering you, but because you're not contributing to the discussion AT ALL in other words, you're spamming.