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Refining & Enchant System: Constructive criticism

kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited December 2013 in PvE Discussion
While there are several threads revolving around the new Refining and Enchantment system, I could not find a single one focusing on offering suggestions for making this system better. So the hope of this is to combine ideas/feedback into a single thread.

First of all, we need to realize that this system is not going to go back to the old system. However, we have a chance as a community to offer ideas that will inspire change in a positive way.

Here is a list of general topics of the biggest issues with a list of constructive solutions for them that I have compiled from the Forums and from others in-game:

1) Only 5 slots/sockets per refine action on Enchants and Artifacts?

Suggestions:
  • Increase refinement tasks to include entire stacks of 99
  • Scale the total number of slots/sockets available based on the current level of the enchant/runestone/artifact
  • Allow RP gems such as pearls, peridots in inventory to be automatically slotted when performing a refining task
  • Allow RP gems to be the first in the list when selecting items to use as RP
  • Allow a "shift + click" mechanism to slot enchantments from inventory into the refine window when active
Submitted by esteena,dkcandy,deadwax,cheesegromit

2) I have less bag space than before...

Suggestions:
  • Allow "stripping" RP's from partially upgraded/refined enchantments so they can be stacked with other "blank" ones.
  • Allow Pearls, Peridots, Aquamarine, etc to be slotted into the "Riches" or "Profession Resources" tab
  • Consolidate/Collapse RP Stones into the Lesser, Normal and Greater stones to reduce bag space (Remove them and just make the reagents also usable as RP stones).
Submitted by sirdrakaden, dkcandy and many others.

3) "Blue" stones in general are too rare!

Suggestions:
  • Allow purple stones to be "backwards compatible" as blue or green stones
  • Replace ONE of the scheduled Dread dailies to include "Blue" stones of choice instead of "Greater" stone of choice
  • Allow Greater Potency stones to drop from bosses other than Valindra's Tower: CN, MC, DV and SP for example
  • Allow "Lesser" Potency stones to drop from level 26-49 Dungeon Delve bosses
  • Allow "Blue" Potency stones to drop from level 50+, T1 and T2 Dungeon Delve bosses or skirmishes
  • Allow "Blue" stones to drop from Arcane-Coffers @ "Platinum" level on up to "Mithril" Gauntlets.
Submitted by Syka08, manholio and others.

4) System still too complicated, unintuitive

Suggestions:
  • Change the color of Refining Stones as they look too similar to Marks and are confusing
  • Create a Protectors Enclave "Gemologist" or "Artifact" adviser to aide in learning the process of each, give tutorial and offer refinement information and the sale of refinement related materials similar to the Emporium director for companions.
  • Better hover-over tool tips or displays of what materials are needed/missing
  • Help page describing where each Reagent Type and Stone can be obtained
  • Remove the Reagent requirement altogether
  • Simplify the process more (vague)
Submitted by MANY.

========================

Something not on the list that bugs you? Post it along with your solution!

I am sure I missed some, so help me in focusing our community with constructive ideas to make this new refinement process better! We did it this way in Alpha, we can do it in Module2.

========================

REFERENCES: 1,2,3,4,5,6
"It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
Post edited by kolbe11 on

Comments

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    vladious1977vladious1977 Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I am gonna be honest with you. I feel lied to and cheated. The whole reasoning behind the improvements we where told was because the system as it was took up way too much inventory space. It was easy to have two bags full of gems. Now I have more slots utilized by gems and of more ranks as I can not condense them down by combining ranks as I did before so many stones of different ranks are now utilizing my inventory space now.

    I am all for having a new system. Yet the system way it is is not the way they described it to us. They should get rid of the final ingredient that they have now and make the final ingredient a stone of the same rank. It would be easier and it would not take up as much space as you can easily condense the stones up to a higher rank and faster too.
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    klangeddinklangeddin Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I agree wholeheartedly with the first and the third point.

    I do not agree with second point, my free bag space has dramatically increased since last patch, before it was a clogged mess with Enchants filling all my bags.

    I do not agree with the fourth point either, I do not think that the new system is too "hard" to understand. The interface tells you everything you need to know.
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    ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    >>Allow "Blue" stones to drop from Arcane-Coffers @ "Platinum" level on up to "Mithril" Gauntlets.

    Next time try PTS.

    >>Allow RP gems such as pearls, peridots in inventory to be automatically slotted when performing a refining task

    That's a wasted point. I hate RP gems in slots if i don't slot them self in it.
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    cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I for one love the new system. I literally was able to two tabs into one in the guild bank that were used for holding enchants and runestones, and still have 80% of that one tab freed up. Same with my bags.

    Slotting my new untwinked ranger and upgrading as I go along has also been FANTASTIC. The system is not intuitive I will give you that... but it takes maybe 5 mins to learn at most. Anyone REALLY struggling... yeah.. well... Darwin is all I have to say.
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    vladious1977vladious1977 Member Posts: 244 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    cbrowne0329 wrote: »
    I for one love the new system. I literally was able to two tabs into one in the guild bank that were used for holding enchants and runestones, and still have 80% of that one tab freed up. Same with my bags.

    Slotting my new untwinked ranger and upgrading as I go along has also been FANTASTIC. The system is not intuitive I will give you that... but it takes maybe 5 mins to learn at most. Anyone REALLY struggling... yeah.. well... Darwin is all I have to say.

    Really? You mean you can find that many blue and green refining stones to upgrade all those runestones?
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    kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    vladious1977 wrote: »
    ...I am all for having a new system. Yet the system way it is is not the way they described it to us. They should get rid of the final ingredient that they have now and make the final ingredient a stone of the same rank.
    Added your suggestion to #4

    klangeddin wrote: »
    I do not agree with second point, my free bag space has dramatically increased since last patch, before it was a clogged mess with Enchants filling all my bags.

    I do not agree with the fourth point either, I do not think that the new system is too "hard" to understand. The interface tells you everything you need to know.
    Point#2 references the same thing you just said: Too many items, more full bags. Further, I am simply posting suggestions made by the community. Agree to disagree, but I am simply trying to compile ideas that multiple people have mentioned.
    "It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
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    dzaimsdzaims Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    My bag space use has remained flat, any gained space being taken up by more marks, etc. Unless I spend lots of AD, the enchants and runes, and now marks and other new items, will continue to clutter up my bag space. :-/
    Ancient Spirits officer

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    reagenlionel1reagenlionel1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The whole system seems counter intuitive when you have to get reagents that are not so easy to come by, and yet they still are used even when you fail.

    Since the introduction of reagents, the failure rate for enchants shouldnt be as low as they are now or reduce the amount of reagents needed to upgrade. I shouldnt need 2-3 marks to upgrade an enchant, just for it to fail.

    Sure in the old system, if you failed. it wasnt a big deal. you just lost a single enchant. The failure rate was good for that.
    Now its even worse considering how much harder it is to get reagents. Now when you want to rank up something from 3-4 going higher. Its a huge risk and is just about necessary to have a preservation ward or two. because it will literally waste the reagents you have when that takes the longest to even acquire.

    And all these different marks is so redundant. Why do we need all these different kinds of marks?
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    deadwaxdeadwax Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    There needs to be a Key setup so that we can hold shift + click for enchants to move directly into the the slots.

    I hate having to drag each and every single enchant into these slots.
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    stabbathstabbath Member Posts: 350 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I am guessing the people that aren't having bag space issues are people that didn't have loads and loads of rune stacks of most ranks. I do. I am wishing I had fused them before the patch, but I thought this system was going to use less runes. I also had the impression there was going to be a reagent inventory, but I must have mistaken that for the collection "inventory".

    Only thing I like about the system is the spending of gold and/or silver (and to my surprise the cost is reasonable) to unslot a rune and the ability to upgrade slotted runes.

    I do hope they refine this refinement system. One suggestion besides the reagent inventory is to allow rank 4 and below runes to be fused like the old system.

    Having to use wards AND expensive or hard to get reagents to upgrade is a major setup back imo. So much so, I'm just going to sit on my rank 7s and sell any blue or purple reagents I get. The ad is worth more to me.
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    imsmithyimsmithy Member Posts: 1,378 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Totally agree with points 1 and 3 , I've had a few green marks drop from nodes but not one blue yet , if they don't sort out the drop rate then all it is doing is creating a bottleneck making the new system no better than the old one but a lot more frustrating and also gives credence to the argument that you have to pay to get anywhere in the game , the new system wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't taken away literally every method of farming AD but blue marks at 200k+ is unrealistic for newer players especially .
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    manholiomanholio Member Posts: 493 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    kolbe11 wrote: »
    3) "Blue" stones in general are too rare!

    Suggestions:
    • Allow "Lesser" Potency stones to drop from level 26-49 Dungeon Delve bosses
    • Allow "Blue" Potency stones to drop from level 50+, T1 and T2 Dungeon Delve bosses or skirmishes
    • Replace ONE of the scheduled Dread dailies to include "Blue" stones of choice instead of "Greater" stone of choice
    • Allow "Blue" stones to drop from Arcane-Coffers @ "Platinum" level on up to "Mithril" Gauntlets.
    • Allow Greater Potency stones to drop from bosses other than Valindra's Tower: CN, MC, DV and SP for example.
    Submitted by Syka08 and others.

    Allow purple stones to be "backwards compatible". In other words, you could sub in the purple stone for its' blue equivalent if you so choose.
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    stabbathstabbath Member Posts: 350 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    also scrolling through the list of runes to select what to use is very time consuming if you have bags full of them. A better sorting is needed. Have the matching runes at the top of the list is an example they should do, if they keep this system. I'd like them to do away with it with the exception of the 2 things I like mentioned above.
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    kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    manholio wrote: »
    Allow purple stones to be "backwards compatible". In other words, you could sub in the purple stone for its' blue equivalent if you so choose.

    good idea! Added.
    "It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
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    rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    manholio wrote: »
    Allow purple stones to be "backwards compatible". In other words, you could sub in the purple stone for its' blue equivalent if you so choose.

    I was going to suggest this too... but it totally ruins the AD sink they created. They are trying to suck AD outta the market for when they release the DD chest keys.
    We can pretend.
    Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
    Oh Wonder - Without You

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    - Dylan Thomas
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    manholiomanholio Member Posts: 493 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    rollingonit wrote: »
    I was going to suggest this too... but it totally ruins the AD sink they created. They are trying to suck AD outta the market for when they release the DD chest keys.

    Eh, I don't think the blue marks of union, power and stability are an AD sink, as those who find them are selling them on the AH. So other than the normal 10% off the top, they aren't an AD sink. Not sure if there is a purple version of the blue mark of potency. That's the AD sink mark, as it sells in the Wondrous Bazaar.
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    rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Obviously the ones in the bazaar (potency) are the sinks...

    So to clarify your post, you are asking for the Power/Stability/Union; not just the "purple stones"
    .
    We can pretend.
    Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
    Oh Wonder - Without You

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    - Dylan Thomas
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    manholiomanholio Member Posts: 493 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    rollingonit wrote: »
    Obviously the ones in the bazaar (potency) are the sinks...

    Right, and now that I think about it, the purple mark of potency is the 100k AD mark in the wondrous bazaar. So allowing the power/stability/union marks to be backwards compatible wouldn't effect the AD sink.
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    rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Like I said.

    PS I like the idea.
    We can pretend.
    Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
    Oh Wonder - Without You

    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
    - Dylan Thomas
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    cheesegromitcheesegromit Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    deadwax wrote: »
    There needs to be a Key setup so that we can hold shift + click for enchants to move directly into the the slots.

    I hate having to drag each and every single enchant into these slots.
    Yeah, I made that suggestion during preview. I certainly found all the dragging cumbersome, I wasn't sure whether it was just part of the transition from the old system to the new one (I had a lot of enchants), or whether it would be an ongoing annoyance.
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    manholiomanholio Member Posts: 493 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    rollingonit wrote: »
    Obviously the ones in the bazaar (potency) are the sinks...

    So to clarify your post, you are asking for the Power/Stability/Union; not just the "purple stones"
    .

    Right. Allow the greater purple stones that you get for running the Shadowmantle dailies to sub for their blue equivalent. Right now, the blue marks are the most expensive/hardest to farm apparently.

    I've got my "Water" artifact up to level 29, but if I want to upgrade it I have to buy a blue stone of union on the AH for like 150k. Meanwhile, I've got 3 purple marks of union stones sitting in my bag...
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    kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    cheesegromit wrote: »
    Yeah, I made that suggestion during preview. I certainly found all the dragging cumbersome, I wasn't sure whether it was just part of the transition from the old system to the new one (I had a lot of enchants), or whether it would be an ongoing annoyance.

    Added the idea as it would be helpful to the process.
    "It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
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    donmancinidonmancini Member Posts: 44
    edited December 2013
    System should be more easier and its more and more harder!! We are a 60 - 70 active ppl guild, these 5 or 6 days so many epic dungeon runs t1 t2 MC CN and VT i never saw a Mark of Power drop NEVER!!! I have seen 1 Greater mark of potency drop only after killing Valindra, 3 times mark of potency 1 PK 2nd boss and 2 VT 1st boss, Nothing in epic skill nodes exept those peridots wich gives you 500rp! Srsly we've been fulled. New system is much more expencive and ppl who dont see that are just stupid!
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    hexanna22hexanna22 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 204 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    Agree about the bag space, those who aren't having probs with bag speace must be refining or using as they go along ...even if I did do that--I still have 7 slots taken up by marks that I can't use yet--and that is without any blues yet.

    Also, refining 5 at a time is the pits--an option to refine all of the same rank and type would rock.
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    cbrowne0329cbrowne0329 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 293 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    The greens have been dropping like water for me from kits. The blues I have found maybe 2 or 3 from kits. I've only been playing my ranger to get him to 60, so I'm guessing once I'm fire up and start doing delves etc with him, I'll be seeing many more. People have a tendency to shortcut glitch dungeons etc, and miss kits and loot all the time.

    I will always take the extra time to go for kits... because that's where I get 99% of my enchants and crafting items from.
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    kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    cbrowne0329 wrote: »
    The greens have been dropping like water for me from kits. The blues I have found maybe 2 or 3 from kits. I've only been playing my ranger to get him to 60, so I'm guessing once I'm fire up and start doing delves etc with him, I'll be seeing many more. People have a tendency to shortcut glitch dungeons etc, and miss kits and loot all the time.

    I will always take the extra time to go for kits... because that's where I get 99% of my enchants and crafting items from.

    On some weekdays when I have a chance to catch up on my dailies I often open so many kits between my 2 toons that I end up with broken glass... That said, I've seen 1 blue mark in maybe 200 kits that I've opened since launch. In 11 DD's since mod2, I've seen 1 Blue Mark of Potency drop from the 2nd boss in FH and 1 Greater Mark of Potency drop from 1st boss in VT.

    Summary: Blue's are FAR more rare than any of the others.
    "It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
This discussion has been closed.