Any iron vanguard destroyer GWF out there??

pandapaul · December 2013

So since patch I been tweaking my build and planned on sticking to sword master because I felt WMS was such a key component... Since the animation fix I feel that it's impact is minimal now.. It seems sooooooo dam slow and lathargic.. Actually starting to not enjoy using this at will.. So I have been thinking maybe a switch to Iron vanguard might help.. Mainly cause I feel some the other passives and daily are better than what sword master has..flourish would be a big loss for single target boss dps.. But maybe be able to get extra dps elsewhere..

Is anyone running this yet?

argentangelus · December 2013

I have been wondering the same thing. Lots of talk about GWF getting the big boost with the patch but not what people are doing. I just got my first GWF to 30 so would love some input. Stay with sword master or take the new path?

pitshade · December 2013

I switched to IV. Planned it out on the Preview server this past weekend. I like Frontline Surge a lot better than Flourish. It's more CC and also an AOE that does decent damage. Stayed with Destroyer with Student of the Sword and then took the feat that buffs FS. Trample the Fallen is great too. I prefer Crescendo over Indomitable Strength. Haven't needed to use Threatening Rush but it could come in handy, for the movement if nothing else. Enduring Warrior isn't performing as well as it does for my GF due to not fighting defensively.

zacazu · December 2013

I could not adapt to the mechanics of IV. very slow. all the rest would require a mental effort that I'm not willing to take ... hahah

cancellation with wicked strike still works.

pando83 · December 2013

Went IV. Already tested it on preview shard.
I have to say...i sense nerf incoming, unless there's some hidden potential in the other classes' new paths.

PvE: rivaling CWs as the best DPS. And i'm not even a full destroyer, but a hybrid sentinel in full offensive T1 PvE gear (my second set). Beating them easily if i have to tell the truth, but probably i just didn't run with a high rank CW in new master of flame path. Still, i think my damage in PvE is...uhm...doubled. Yeah. Pretty much.

PvP: i'm not gonna lie. I sense nerf incoming here. Seriously. Frontline AoE prone is just very powerful. Crit over 11-12k or more with lesser vorpal. Threat rush on us is just...lol. May be here too, i didn't get to face good TRs and CWs with new paragon paths. But right now, it's a killfest for us. You are literally glued to their ***. And each time you mark them. And frontline is so much damage, did i say it already?
I think TRs need a buff to get 3 dodge rolls, and CWs 5 teleports. I see them struggling. But again, may be i just didn't get to face very good ones.

When HRs start hitting 60 and go PvP, for CWs i think it will be real hell. Caught up between TRs, HRs and IV GWFs...i don't know, really.

wh0 · December 2013

pando83 wrote: »

Went IV. Already tested it on preview shard.
I have to say...i sense nerf incoming, unless there's some hidden potential in the other classes' new paths.

PvE: rivaling CWs as the best DPS. And i'm not even a full destroyer, but a hybrid sentinel in full offensive T1 PvE gear (my second set). Beating them easily if i have to tell the truth, but probably i just didn't run with a high rank CW in new master of flame path. Still, i think my damage in PvE is...uhm...doubled. Yeah. Pretty much.

PvP: i'm not gonna lie. I sense nerf incoming here. Seriously. Frontline AoE prone is just very powerful. Crit over 11-12k or more with lesser vorpal. Threat rush on us is just...lol. May be here too, i didn't get to face good TRs and CWs with new paragon paths. But right now, it's a killfest for us. You are literally glued to their ***. And each time you mark them. And frontline is so much damage, did i say it already?
I think TRs need a buff to get 3 dodge rolls, and CWs 5 teleports. I see them struggling. But again, may be i just didn't get to face very good ones.

When HRs start hitting 60 and go PvP, for CWs i think it will be real hell. Caught up between TRs, HRs and IV GWFs...i don't know, really.

I disagree. Any Sent gwf that run IV or SM with tank build cannot last long vs gd geared characters, esp CW. Just any 2 other mixed class(with good gears) including GF can take you down in a short while. Just vs premade and u will get it. Moreover, too many ppl stack arp lately and the defense class just feels like wearing cloths, GF with shield are more of an advantage than gwf lol.

pando83 · December 2013

wh0 wrote: »

I disagree. Any Sent gwf that run IV or SM with tank build cannot last long vs gd geared characters, esp CW. Just any 2 other mixed class(with good gears) including GF can take you down in a short while. Just vs premade and u will get it. Moreover, too many ppl stack arp lately and the defense class just feels like wearing cloths, GF with shield are more of an advantage than gwf lol.

I don't really like premades strategies for GWFs, and i'm not a fan of full-tank sentinels. All they do is take a sentinel tank, put it on point 3 and let him tank and contest it as much as he can.
A well built, well geared, well played Destroyers can be very useful if you ask me. Just need skills and the right build/gear to be effective.
If you're not a full tank GWF with a marshmallow sword, the Amazing gap-closing ability that threat rush gives us can be very useful.

grimah · December 2013

the new damage has nothing to do with IV. Deep Gash is crazy good. I parsed a dungeon run, I was sentinel and i outdpsed everyone, 35% of my damage was from deep gash, average tick was 968 or something like that.

I don't think it is intentional (15% of power over 5 seconds). However It is very awesome, GWFs are valuable, But it is very unfair on rogues right now. (atleast 1 CW will be desirable for control).

I am loving my gwf damage, but i feel really neglected on my guardian fighter, GWFs currently can do everything a GF can but 2x better. (with the only drawback of no range attack)

Haven't you guys tried pvp yet? Just using threatening rush and watching the bleed kill them

wh0 · December 2013

grimah wrote: »

the new damage has nothing to do with IV. Deep Gash is crazy good. I parsed a dungeon run, I was sentinel and i outdpsed everyone, 35% of my damage was from deep gash, average tick was 968 or something like that.

I don't think it is intentional (15% of power over 5 seconds). However It is very awesome, GWFs are valuable, But it is very unfair on rogues right now. (atleast 1 CW will be desirable for control).

I am loving my gwf damage, but i feel really neglected on my guardian fighter, GWFs currently can do everything a GF can but 2x better. (with the only drawback of no range attack)

Haven't you guys tried pvp yet? Just using threatening rush and watching the bleed kill them

I am sure u aren't building a defensive Sentinel build. Your power must be way high to bleed that amount. You give up def for dps, that's balanced.

ortzhy · December 2013

hmm.. i think is a bit early to talk... i am running IV Instigator and i see a 50% dmg increase but with anointed champion buffs (those are 20% extra). It feels good PVE wise! I wont even go close to pvp atm, it just got worse with artifacts and new paths...

mconosrep · December 2013

TBH this seems like another case where GWF are going to be nerfed because of their PvP potential which will end up making them even more unwanted in PvE....

steamroler12 · December 2013

I dont think any class is over/under powered in any way, I am a Sent GWF, and i still see a lot of Cons,, Surge has a 19-20 second cool down.....and threatning rush, doesnt always work. as it is on GF's. if you play an equally geared gwf and an equally geared/skilled TR, its a fair fight. I havve no complaints with GWF nor do i say anything is underpowered. i think everyone is fine. GJ on Shadowmantle Cryp.

banaanc · December 2013

i have IV Destroyer, no point playing swordmaster without wms, but havent had time to test
dex vs con, we get a lot from crit and a bunch of new stats from pets/artifacts so it should be easier to get arp for dex builds

Encounters - there are 2 many to chose from, and our capstone prefers dps ones while there are 2 utility ones i really like, + its hard to fit ibs with frontline/roar(dont like this one though), not so fast, come and get it and battle fury

not so fast does trash dmg but has good aoe + trample, frontline hits only 3 targets, has really bad cd and knocks mobs away but has a nice prone + trample, ibs has best dmg, battle fury gives nice dps boost + has reasonable cd with feat, and come and get it allows you to bunch up mobs, roar does trash dmg and pushes mobs, but has interupt

might try come and get it + not so fast + ibs, all have reasonably short cd to keep avatar of war up

might drop relentless battle fury for battle awareness(25% on top of my 6.3k+avatar of war would do nice dmg) or vicious advantage, though im mostly the only fighter in party so dont get CA unless cw grant it

2 bad they did instigator cap stone the wrong way, it should go away if you are NOT hit for a certain amount of time, not like it is now

pitshade · December 2013

I posted this in another thread but Feated Frontline Surge+Come and Get it+Trample the Fallen is great.

magicman32 · December 2013

wow how come i don't see iron vanguard path as an option since module 2 started? i still only see swordmaster? anyone else have this issue?

pando83 · December 2013

magicman32 wrote: »

wow how come i don't see iron vanguard path as an option since module 2 started? i still only see swordmaster? anyone else have this issue?

Did you respec using the free respec they gave to players?
When you respec, you should get the choice between SM and IV.

pando83 · December 2013

grimah wrote: »

the new damage has nothing to do with IV. Deep Gash is crazy good. I parsed a dungeon run, I was sentinel and i outdpsed everyone, 35% of my damage was from deep gash, average tick was 968 or something like that.

I don't think it is intentional (15% of power over 5 seconds). However It is very awesome, GWFs are valuable, But it is very unfair on rogues right now. (atleast 1 CW will be desirable for control).

I am loving my gwf damage, but i feel really neglected on my guardian fighter, GWFs currently can do everything a GF can but 2x better. (with the only drawback of no range attack)

Haven't you guys tried pvp yet? Just using threatening rush and watching the bleed kill them

When i tested it on preview, i noticed it is 15% every second for 5 seconds. Not 15% overall. Which means 75% of you power as damage every 5 seconds.
Vorpal works with deep gash damage increasing it, treating each tick like a critical hit. So you can have much higher deep gash ticks with a vorpal (perfect is 50% more critical severity).

It's very good damage. In PvP it's affected by DR so it's much lower. But i think it's WAI. At least for the 15% part. Don't know if they wanted vorpal to work wiht deep gash increasing it.

magicman32 · December 2013

my feats auto respect. the powers did not. ok let me check on that. thanks for your help.

vortix44 · December 2013

argentangelus wrote: »

Lots of talk about GWF getting the big boost with the patch

What is that boost by the way? Just the soon-nerfed Deep Gash?

vortix44 · December 2013

banaanc wrote: »

roar does trash dmg and pushes mobs

It has come to the point that I use Roar only againt foes which are immune to the push-back. Almost a pure nil-effect encounter, a low-CD thing that helps keeping the set bonus alive.

inthefade462 · December 2013

I dont see how iv can compare to sm for dps. Control/mobility sure but raw dps? My gwf has always beaten cws/tr/etc in dps and still does after patch. Yeah wms nerf hurt but it would have been insane with all the buffs we got to leave wms animation cancel in.

burkaanc · December 2013

i wouldnt mind if animation was any good, but the way it is its too clumsy and annoying

odd111out · December 2013

I reached 60 on my IV Destroyer last weekend and have been smoking SM Destroyers in T1s for the last couple of days. Deep Gash & Battle Trample I think have a lot to do with that. I've been spamming TR as my at will, with Roar-Frontline-Takedown as my single target stun lock. Slam as my AoE. The only DPS race I've lost was to a full T1 geared HR who just ranged the whole run. I even out healed one of the new clerics in a Mad Dragon (10% Life Steal, Unstoppable Recovery, Perfect Lifedrinker -no regen). It's been fun.

rki2 · December 2013

yeah maybe IV is better with clearing, because of frontline surge, battle trample-trample the fallen(synergizes with CWs), but clearing the dungeon is already fast enough thanks to the cws and the new artifacts (Lantern spam anyone?), IV is mediocre compared to SM in single target dps, knowing frontline surge has a long cooldown while flourish has shorter, and battle trample is irrelevant to bosses(cause they dont get proned). I'd still take a SM GWF in our CN runs just because they can do more damage in boss fights.

IV is best suited for sentinels
SM for destroyers

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

On my new build sent iv gwf. I've tanked a 5 man premade last night and killed 3 of them before they gave up their point to kill my pugs lol. With max gear its devastating. I've crit 20k indoms 15k battlestrikes and I've seen iceknifes do 4k on me... then soulforge+ bloodraven artfact thing u really become invincible. But then again if u run destroyer its more balanced glass canon 2h fighter. If anything its sentinel that's op. Being able to tank and deal stupid dmg

ayroux · December 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

On my new build sent iv gwf. I've tanked a 5 man premade last night and killed 3 of them before they gave up their point to kill my pugs lol. With max gear its devastating. I've crit 20k indoms 15k battlestrikes and I've seen iceknifes do 4k on me... then soulforge+ bloodraven artfact thing u really become invincible. But then again if u run destroyer its more balanced glass canon 2h fighter. If anything its sentinel that's op. Being able to tank and deal stupid dmg

This btw was all possible with massive pots and buffs from sharandar. When you go "natty" as ill call it with just the fire buff, my Senti is massive tanky with 47% deflect 1500 regen and 36.6k HP and without a GF its almost impossible to kill, throw a GF on it tho and 2v1 is still pretty easy, if you wanna roid out with those buffs tho then you can do some pretty amazing things in the game, especially with all maxed artifacts and R10s

Keep in mind GF bullrush is more than enough time for weapon master stacks to fall off making the GWF lose about 10% deflect and crit.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

I'm only 1.3k reg 22% deflect and 39k hp. Soon to be 1.5k with new boon tho. And while I'm unstopable I have enough time to take out a squishy or make the gf rethink his life

timesvolent · March 2014

inthefade462 wrote: »

I dont see how iv can compare to sm for dps. Control/mobility sure but raw dps? My gwf has always beaten cws/tr/etc in dps and still does after patch. Yeah wms nerf hurt but it would have been insane with all the buffs we got to leave wms animation cancel in.

Yes, to answer your question.
...and, your GWF has 'always' beaten 'all classes' (etc whatever that implies), in 'dps' you purport, or damage dealt should you have said?
...and, I am unsure what insane buffs SW/Destroyers get?

timesvolent · March 2014

in that order?

pitshade · March 2014

It might be good to check the posting date before you hit respond.

exiledtyrant · March 2014

Has anyone tried Iron Vanguard destroyer that isn't crit based? I was looking to try a GWF that was able to spam encounters / dailies more, while relying on heavy sustained damage from a large % damage boost instead of using criticals.

The feats and power would look something like this:
http://nwcalc.com/gwf?b=ofu:1dxsr0:1yiifg,1x6lx00:100000:1uu0z1:1u5000&h=1&p=ivn

I am looking to take advantage of the constant 27% damage increase given by trample the fallen + destroyer while being able to spam takedown, battle fury and not so fast.

I couldn't find a gear calculator anywhere so i don't know what the stat weights would look like at 60 but if you could somehow get 25% cooldown reduction from recovery that would allow for what looks like a 5 second downtime takedown, a 5 second downtime battle fury and around a 7 second downtime not so fast slow debuff. That's pretty good uptime for the amount of control and % damage increase utility it offers.

I would focus on power, recovery and defense as my main stats with points in str and con each level. With high con and the % armor pen from high recovery that would leave little to fill in augment wise for armor pen. Then I'd have to find a way to focus on power and life steal. Again all very hard without being able to see all the stats though.

Pros would be:
27% raw damage increase from destroyer + trample
25% weapon damage on every proc of trample
20% damage and 35% ap gen team wide buff for 5 seconds every 10/11 seconds.
Possible high AP gain in general.
More hp due to high con/str instead of dex

Wouldn't be able to crit much at all however and would have to give up things like gash.

Any iron vanguard destroyer GWF out there??

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