rock paper scissors is balanced because they are akin to weapons and you get to choose which weapon you'll use for each battle. they are not classes that you must keep for every battle. trying to compare classes to rock paper scissors is ridiculous.
The only balancing that can be done is by the players - get the gear you need and get together with groups that work for you. If you don't have that, make some friends, be social, and MAKE it happen for you.
today I fought 12 matches in pvp... the other team had 2 CW and 3 GF... the GF would all team up and kill everyone one at a time while the CW kept anyone that was a real threat CC'd until the GF could get to them and they would take turns shield bashing down the target keeping them prone the whole fight til they died while the other CW would take the towers back that was randomly stolen... it was an unbeatable team cause the GF all had high regeneration so any damage you did to them by the time you came back after dying was gone... it was like a machine put together by 1 player that was running 5 computers at once because they knew exactly when to use the shield bash skill after one another they never overlapped and they followed in line behind each other like it was a bot following the lead player. balance? nope. statagy? nope... player farming glory and wins... YUP! nothing will keep a player from making multiple accounts with quad boxing this game to farm glory with 5 characters he had botted... his other 2 GF wouldn't even attack or do anything until his first one did and ran the script to do the moves perfectly in order the same every single time. all with similar names, all in the same guild that has only 10 people, all always in the same pvp team. No team no matter how well balanced or geared can beat that guy with his quad box bots and his OP stratagy because no player is immune to that series of knockbacks he does since GF knocks can even get you during a dash or evade move. a GWF didn't even stand a chance because even if he fills up his dominance bar he can't use it prone and your prone the whole fight til you die.
Oh Atari how I miss you!
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
player farming glory and wins... YUP! nothing will keep a player from making multiple accounts with quad boxing this game to farm glory with 5 characters he had botted...
There's no reason to farm glory in this game (anymore). Also I don't know about anybody multiboxing this. What you faced is a lame premade (if they continued to farm you without offering 1 vs 1).
@Pointsman: Man I love you. If even 10% of all players were like you I think it would be fantastic to play in pug's, PvE or PvP.
I am leveling a tr, at lvl 50 atm. But this will not be a cookie cutter or stealth build. I will do my best to be a hybrid that does not have too much stealth or damage, but a balance of both. Sure I will get mauled by these builds but as long as I can make just ONE of these understand how cheap they are, I have succeeded. None-cheap TR is very fun to play as, I recommend it!
EDIT- I thought "reply" was going to quote the person, added @Pointsman.
With double xp i levelled my other chars to 60, put blue gear on them and change it one at a time now to the PVP epic gear. What I see is that a blue geared TR (played a little more defensivly) can do very well in PVP. Of course fighting a GF 1v1 is a bad idea, you have to be more picky but you can be devastating and get lots of kills.
On the other hand my main is a DC, a PVE DC with full miracle set, enchants (not the highest though but 5-7) and full epic gear (ancient). He has a GS of 12.2. He gets beaten to death easily in PVP. Hardly can do a lot against good geared players, not even against weaker geared players. A stealthed TR can basically just kill him with throwing knives and using impact shot.
And that shows the big unbalancing in this game concerning PVP. A rogue can do fine because he stealthes and runs away and uses his CC like smoke bomb (or the bugged impact shot that has a CC component what is not written in tooltip) while on the other hand has high damage abilities to finish those off that have already low health. And on top of that you can just throw knives from stealth and be quite safe. A very good geared PVE DC on the other hand is like a sitting duck in PVP, if you don't gear DCs (what basically all PVP DCs do) with lots of Regen and Def gear then you are lost. The weird thing about this is that you have to play the DC as a defensive wall, that basically doesn't do a lot of damage but doesn't heal either (so basically he fails in his role completely from an RP point of view), he just stands there to block a node because people can't kill him fast. A weak geared TR on the other hand can take some cheap blue gear which is focussed on PVE content and be good in PVP. And if a blue geared TR can do fine, a perfectly geared TR is completely out of reality.
PVP is so completely wrong in this game that one can only shake his head.
0
rosicrucianistMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
From a class perspective, the CW, DC, GWF, and TR can all do extremely well in PvP. The GF is a bit weaker than the other 4, but a good one can stun lock and tear apart another character in melee, especially when working in tandem with a teammate. I have played a CW, a TR, and a GWF in PvP, and never felt that any of them was substantially weaker than the others.
From a gear perspective, I suppose a quasi gear check system could be implemented, where the system would try to place characters with others of like gear scores, and after a period broken the gear discrepancies, but as others have noted, GS is not necessarily a good indicator of the relative power of a character.
today I fought 12 matches in pvp... the other team had 2 CW and 3 GF... the GF would all team up and kill everyone one at a time while the CW kept anyone that was a real threat CC'd until the GF could get to them and they would take turns shield bashing down the target keeping them prone the whole fight til they died while the other CW would take the towers back that was randomly stolen... it was an unbeatable team cause the GF all had high regeneration so any damage you did to them by the time you came back after dying was gone... it was like a machine put together by 1 player that was running 5 computers at once because they knew exactly when to use the shield bash skill after one another they never overlapped and they followed in line behind each other like it was a bot following the lead player. balance? nope. statagy? nope... player farming glory and wins... YUP! nothing will keep a player from making multiple accounts with quad boxing this game to farm glory with 5 characters he had botted... his other 2 GF wouldn't even attack or do anything until his first one did and ran the script to do the moves perfectly in order the same every single time. all with similar names, all in the same guild that has only 10 people, all always in the same pvp team. No team no matter how well balanced or geared can beat that guy with his quad box bots and his OP stratagy because no player is immune to that series of knockbacks he does since GF knocks can even get you during a dash or evade move. a GWF didn't even stand a chance because even if he fills up his dominance bar he can't use it prone and your prone the whole fight til you die.
Sounds like you need to divide-and-conquer for that group, perhaps a full 5 man stealth TR team, or at least 2 TRs and a decoy tank that can withstand the first set of the GF sequence to kick things off. Get the first GF to start the sequence. Once the other two start, two TRs start stealth-nailing the other GFs from behind with the goal to break the sequence and get them separated. The other two chars take on the CWs. Your chance at getting a pug that can take that down is very slim.
After module 2 goes live we'll see how Rangers can fit into the equation as well providing hit-and-run archery.
This exemplifies my, as someone called it above, 'too literal' point about balance. You're stuck as what you are. You may never be what you need to take down certain groups or players. The classes are designed for certain roles. Based on those roles, no matter how good you are, you may be stuck as 'scissors' while the other is always 'rock', and you can't change into 'paper' without changing characters. Everyone thinks that 'I should have a equal chance to win every fight', and that is just simply not the case. You might have some tiny chance. A class designed for high 1-on-1 damage is going to take out your squishy caster type 90 times or more out of 100 if played by someone of equal skill and equal gear level, and yet people complain about that and call it 'unbalanced'.
I agree that the queue system is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I also don't like that you can't just go off into some remote corner of a map and PvP with friends 1v1, 2v2, 1v2, etc. to practice or have fun. I could go for open pvp areas that contain pve questing to give 60s something to do (protecting the little guys who need to do the quests in that area from the 'evil' characters trying to kill them, or just PvP with each other with the possibility of mobs coming down on you during your battle). That does open the door to griefing though, so there would need to be something in place to help counteract that.
Sounds like you need to divide-and-conquer for that group, perhaps a full 5 man stealth TR team, or at least 2 TRs and a decoy tank that can withstand the first set of the GF sequence to kick things off. Get the first GF to start the sequence. Once the other two start, two TRs start stealth-nailing the other GFs from behind with the goal to break the sequence and get them separated. The other two chars take on the CWs. Your chance at getting a pug that can take that down is very slim.
After module 2 goes live we'll see how Rangers can fit into the equation as well providing hit-and-run archery.
This exemplifies my, as someone called it above, 'too literal' point about balance. You're stuck as what you are. You may never be what you need to take down certain groups or players. The classes are designed for certain roles. Based on those roles, no matter how good you are, you may be stuck as 'scissors' while the other is always 'rock', and you can't change into 'paper' without changing characters. Everyone thinks that 'I should have a equal chance to win every fight', and that is just simply not the case. You might have some tiny chance. A class designed for high 1-on-1 damage is going to take out your squishy caster type 90 times or more out of 100 if played by someone of equal skill and equal gear level, and yet people complain about that and call it 'unbalanced'.
I agree that the queue system is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I also don't like that you can't just go off into some remote corner of a map and PvP with friends 1v1, 2v2, 1v2, etc. to practice or have fun. I could go for open pvp areas that contain pve questing to give 60s something to do (protecting the little guys who need to do the quests in that area from the 'evil' characters trying to kill them, or just PvP with each other with the possibility of mobs coming down on you during your battle). That does open the door to griefing though, so there would need to be something in place to help counteract that.
Yes, except all classes beside DC are designed for high 1-on-1 damage so squishy caster type is truly and well ****ed.
today I fought 12 matches in pvp... the other team had 2 CW and 3 GF... the GF would all team up and kill everyone one at a time while the CW kept anyone that was a real threat CC'd until the GF could get to them and they would take turns shield bashing down the target keeping them prone the whole fight til they died while the other CW would take the towers back that was randomly stolen... it was an unbeatable team cause the GF all had high regeneration so any damage you did to them by the time you came back after dying was gone... it was like a machine put together by 1 player that was running 5 computers at once because they knew exactly when to use the shield bash skill after one another they never overlapped and they followed in line behind each other like it was a bot following the lead player. balance? nope. statagy? nope... player farming glory and wins... YUP! nothing will keep a player from making multiple accounts with quad boxing this game to farm glory with 5 characters he had botted... his other 2 GF wouldn't even attack or do anything until his first one did and ran the script to do the moves perfectly in order the same every single time. all with similar names, all in the same guild that has only 10 people, all always in the same pvp team. No team no matter how well balanced or geared can beat that guy with his quad box bots and his OP stratagy because no player is immune to that series of knockbacks he does since GF knocks can even get you during a dash or evade move. a GWF didn't even stand a chance because even if he fills up his dominance bar he can't use it prone and your prone the whole fight til you die.
Any game with 3 of a kind is a troll premade. Trust me there's way worse then that. I've been q sniped by 5gwf sents. Also ran into 5dc tanks. Those matches are the only time when leaving is permitted in my opinion. Because there's really almost nothing u can do and it wastes your time
U R 2 E Z- SENT IV GWF undefeated 16k GS
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
If the rest of your team immediately runs to home base at the start of the match, and not to center point, big deal! It doesn't mean the match is automatically over.
Unfortunately, it does. When you're the only one to run at the point 2, and your team all runs to the home point - it's 99% over. The enemy team runs to your home point after taking 2, they kill all your teammates right after, and the match becomes one sided slaughter at your home point, because 99% matches end like this, it's just statistics. You can try to cap their point, but they will recap it right after, so you won't get any score points for it (unless you're sentinel regen GWF or permastealth-tenebrous TR so you can hold half of enemy team at their node).
If you are pugging and a guy on your team has 6k GS, then play anyway and consider it a challenge to see if you can carry your team to victory despite the obvious handicap. Maybe even toss him a pointer or two.
Usually, those players leave after they got melted. I played well about 40 matches in last few days to farm 24k glory on my GWF to buy new artifact, and I can ensure you - they leave. A few start to act like a bot standing somewhere anywhere possible but not on the capture node and die, and die, and then die some more. Others leave. Unfortunately, there's no fun at all in those matches. Worse, that barely anyone can understand "my team sucks, lets do 1vs1".
Everything is bad.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Unfortunately, it does. When you're the only one to run at the point 2, and your team all runs to the home point - it's 99% over. The enemy team runs to your home point after taking 2, they kill all your teammates right after, and the match becomes one sided slaughter at your home point, because 99% matches end like this, it's just statistics. You can try to cap their point, but they will recap it right after, so you won't get any score points for it (unless you're sentinel regen GWF or permastealth-tenebrous TR so you can hold half of enemy team at their node).
Usually, those players leave after they got melted. I played well about 40 matches in last few days to farm 24k glory on my GWF to buy new artifact, and I can ensure you - they leave. A few start to act like a bot standing somewhere anywhere possible but not on the capture node and die, and die, and then die some more. Others leave. Unfortunately, there's no fun at all in those matches. Worse, that barely anyone can understand "my team sucks, lets do 1vs1".
Everything is bad.
Agreed. Also even premades have stopped 1v1ing. I won't mention names but I get irritated when its a 5v1 match and all they want to do is brag about how good they are at killing random pugs
U R 2 E Z- SENT IV GWF undefeated 16k GS
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited December 2013
Indeed.
If naming&shaming would be allowed, I'd post a few hours of videos from some of the best geared players in the game which I happened to pug with, farming newbies mercilessly beneath spawn, or even trying to draw them out, or my calls for 1 vs 1 remaining unanswered while the only person remaining in the game, then when I got down, all 5 pro PvPers jumped my CW like there was no tomorrow and it was the last kill they'll ever make.
These being said, there are some PvPers that will kill you just as mercilessly while the match is ongoing, but when it's all over, they stop, offer 1 vs 1, and let the losers cap points if they want to.
Unfortunately, it does. When you're the only one to run at the point 2, and your team all runs to the home point - it's 99% over. The enemy team runs to your home point after taking 2, they kill all your teammates right after, and the match becomes one sided slaughter at your home point, because 99% matches end like this, it's just statistics.
I fully agree.
I can't stand it when 4 people go to take home. This is as dumb as it gets. The worse part is when they come to "help" me cap uncontested point, or when I contest wit some GWF or DC or even TR 1 vs 1 (because there's nobody else that would do it), and they come 2-3 again to "help" me while the other points are being red. Drives me crazy. "Only 1 person contests with the perma/sent etc.". "Why are you all at homebase?!?". "Leave I don't need help here", again and again, but they just won't comprehend.
So lately I just leave when I see them go to home at start. Selfish behavior for 300 points, I will not tolerate, requeue.
I can't stand it when 4 people go to take home. This is as dumb as it gets. The worse part is when they come to "help" me cap uncontested point, or when I contest wit some GWF or DC or even TR 1 vs 1 (because there's nobody else that would do it), and they come 2-3 again to "help" me while the other points are being red. Drives me crazy. "Only 1 person contests with the perma/sent etc.". "Why are you all at homebase?!?". "Leave I don't need help here", again and again, but they just won't comprehend.
This is just insane. We've got home point (1 for example), we've taken point 2. I assume that we are stronger/better geared and decide to take point 3 myself. Taking 1 kill there, second. And then I see entire ally team coming to me to "help" me. They lose 2, then 1, separate, starting to lose. "Only 1 person contests with the perma/sent etc.". "Why are you all at homebase?!?". "Leave I don't need help here" doesn't help, they don't read, don't know english or don't care. I'd like to see an official guide or forced link to someone's guide ("A Beginners Guide to Successful PvP by Alysin Chains" for example) before they join pvp. 90% of pvp balance is in players' heads.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
Unfortunately, it does. When you're the only one to run at the point 2, and your team all runs to the home point - it's 99% over.
Eh - don't be so dramatic. Sure it doesn't help but it's not a game-breaker. Try this instead: If your whole team goes initially to home base at the start, *you go with them*. Then once the base is captured, the entire team then goes immediately to point 2 and smashes them. This strategy minimizes the disadvantage associated with going immediately to home base. Plus, wouldn't you rather play at point 2 with your team, rather than go there alone at the start and face the entire enemy team alone?
I guess my big point here is, "lighten up, Francis". Casual players aren't the hyper-competitive, hyper-driven hard-core PVPers determined to win every single match.
I realy must agree with all the guys who in theyr opinion say the queue is messed up. But also the ppl who say that matching GS is wrong, and wont even the balance. Im a crapy CW with 9,7k GS but i win 85%of the games i play and 90% of those games i come out 1st or 2nd, even if the game is lost im still there on top.
And yes the blame is in every little kid who read on the forums that TR's, GF's,GWF's are OP in PVP...So they just folowed some random dude guide and copied his all skills and feats and just hope to be just as good as he is. Thats in my opinion plain dumb and will not encourage anyone to do that. As one sayd in this thread: " To win in a PVP match u need a well coordinated team and a little brain."
Its not the unkillble GWF's, the army of TR's or any premade teams fault u lost. Its because u all rushed to the home base, or u just went on 1 vs 5 and died a lot. What i mostly experienced in almost all games is having 2-3 TR's that only rush to kill on middle. They die over and over again, but no1 goes behind them and cap that point.
So if anyone needs a giude in PVP domination here's one:
-rule number 1: only 1 player goes to home to cap
-the main goal is to keep the 3 points blue and dominate the other team( and by dominate does not mean u have to kill them over and over and over..)
-so if ur a GF,TR or GWF go cap away from ur team
-dont go helping ur teammate cap a point on wich there is no enemy
-u see a 1vs1 fight,let them fight and move on where u are needed (im pissed on fighting someone and when hes 1% HP i get a backstab from a TR...)
- no matter if u die a lot, ur not among the firsts in the rank page,what matters at the end is the team that WON. Get that through ur head.
In my opinion what changes should be made on this domnion, is not changeing the queue system to match GS, not changing skills or ban some for each class...like some suggested. Just take out the premade groups, and let them just be random. Also put a ban to those leaving the game for the first 5 min or something like this. Cause if they arent able to form premade partys and rule over the field will give both partys the chance to adapt to theyr teamates and both team will hav the confusing though on what the others will do...therefore at least from the beginning both team have equal chances.
Another suggestion would be to mask players name and just give them random tags: player1,player2..etc At least that way will be impossible for ppl to check the enemies GS and complain about HIGH GS.
Anyways, there's much to be done in there...but before assaulting Cryptic for not doing anything to PVP, u should remember that Neverwnter is in beta stage, and for the moment they are to busy working on PVE content and classes,gear,skills etc etc...to give ppl a choice when they start playing the official release. When all that is done and we will have multiple choices in character builds, then and only then u may ask for some other arenas or PVP activity.
For the moment thank u for everything Cryptic. Respect.
- no matter if u die a lot, ur not among the firsts in the rank page,what matters at the end is the team that WON. Get that through ur head.
Wrong on that at the current state of PVP, dailies and salvaging. Winning does not help much if you are the last on the list. Your glory will be low. Glory is used to buy stuff for salvaging to have a steady income while doing the daily PVP quests. For newbies glory makes them get the PVP armor much faster and be faster competitive in PVP.
There is no leaderboard, no scores, no second XP bar for some PVP skills, no quests that are finished by winning, no boons that unlock by winning, no titles... nothing where a win would benefit you in any way so you could forget about personal score in the matches itself. If you are number one in the list due to kills but your team lost badly you still walk away with a good amount of glory and in the end might have more AD in the same time than the poor GF that blocked a node 10 minutes, never recapped and hardly killed someone because the others dealt the final damage.
go off into some remote corner of a map and PvP with friends 1v1, 2v2, 1v2, etc. to practice or have fun. I could go for open pvp areas that contain pve
Forgive the criticism, but one might say "potions" would present a roadblock to open world PvP. Potion is an integral mechanic to any game, but in NVW the amount of healing PvP and PvE potions give--in relation to how hitpoint is scaled against player or non-player-characters--is too displaced right now. I'm all for open world PvP or any kind of PvP "balancing". Despite all the crying and nerf bats flying around here in the forums, the occasional solid arguments and number crunching could get important ears to listen.
In retrospect, these suggestions require dev time, budget and further testing. Cryptic's silence gives us a right to our assumptions, but our own opinions must not invalidate the work (if any) that goes on without our knowledge.
Rock paper scissors
Every class has a role to play. Any person may go out of his way to dedicate his class towards a different role. Say, a regen TR, dps Cleric. I can relate how gearscore and enchanting may be seen as broken, but as I put it aside: It just strikes me as obvious that scissor builds no matter what class will cut thru paper. Throw a rock to the glass cannon it will shatter. Fire the cannon to anyone to blast them to pieces. Play the scissor in a dumb way somebody will cut himself. Pitfalls. Advantages. Disadvantages. Strategic decisions made during combat, either from sheer experience or theorycrafting, are what drives the tide of battle and eventually leads to the argument of BALANCE.
Tbh, if one or two of my teammates stay in the base for the first two or more minutes, I quit. If the two TRs in my team allways wait offpoint in stealth, while I fight on point against the other team, till they can oneshot the enemy players I fought, I quit.
Sure PvP shoud be fun for everyone, but this includes me. I woud tell a lie, if I woud say, that I dont care about winning, but I dont care a lot about it, if it is a decent fight and my team does its best.
I wont waste 5 minutes of my time for a team of soloplayers leeching of other players efforts, making a win impossible by playing only in their own immidiate interest, disregarding teamplay at all. This goes out to all the players <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the capture of a point by running after the last surviving member of the other team, while the respawned rest of them takes the point.
I met a former guildmember from another MMORPG here and she hated PvP. We convinced her to join us for PvP and she liked it alot. The difference was not, that she had better gear, but a team, where the DC healed his teammembers and the team protected the DC and each other, resulting in an (almost) certain win.
I woud hate, if they banish premade teams from PvP, because at last 50% of the fun is trashtalking your friend, while having fun together.
The problem here is not GS, but teamplay. If we go up against a premade PvP team with 13k+ GS and perfect... aso., they burn us like cinder, but this is one out of 10 games and the win because of teamplay AND GS, not because of their GS.
I personally feel that Enchants actually contribute to lvl.60 PvP imbalance far more than gears in general, but the matter has been discussed to death and Cryptics has shown no real intention in giving PvP a much needed overhaul just yet, we will have to keep twiddling our thumbs and wait.
they are coming across as really lazy devs tbh. no interest in fixes, don;t listen to players. hence pvp is vile. and your 100% right about enchnats. but p2w game is p2w.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
they are coming across as really lazy devs tbh. no interest in fixes, don;t listen to players. hence pvp is vile. and your 100% right about enchnats.
PvP is not vile at all, it is very good.
It just lacks balance, completely, and ladders.
Yes the enchants also make a HUGE difference, sometimes is extremely cheesy&lame. For example, with a perfect vorpal as a CW I can 3 shot most pugging squishies without giving them a chance to reply to my attack. Such combos are completely <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, PvP encounters should take way longer, a match should not be lost if the enemy gets the first spell on you cause of better ping for example.
The solution is to separate balance for PvP and to make PvP gear with resilience compulsory is you don't want to get one-shot. This way you can balance the exact amount of damage and survivability a class can push.
PvP is just premades squashing pugs now. Its almost impossible to get any points now when in a pug. Players give the game 10seconds and if they dont get the center they leave.
Any hope for PvP in NW is dead after module 2. Now premades are even more powerfull because of artifacts.
Cryptic should use GWF as bosses in dungeons, much more entertaining.
Comments
today I fought 12 matches in pvp... the other team had 2 CW and 3 GF... the GF would all team up and kill everyone one at a time while the CW kept anyone that was a real threat CC'd until the GF could get to them and they would take turns shield bashing down the target keeping them prone the whole fight til they died while the other CW would take the towers back that was randomly stolen... it was an unbeatable team cause the GF all had high regeneration so any damage you did to them by the time you came back after dying was gone... it was like a machine put together by 1 player that was running 5 computers at once because they knew exactly when to use the shield bash skill after one another they never overlapped and they followed in line behind each other like it was a bot following the lead player. balance? nope. statagy? nope... player farming glory and wins... YUP! nothing will keep a player from making multiple accounts with quad boxing this game to farm glory with 5 characters he had botted... his other 2 GF wouldn't even attack or do anything until his first one did and ran the script to do the moves perfectly in order the same every single time. all with similar names, all in the same guild that has only 10 people, all always in the same pvp team. No team no matter how well balanced or geared can beat that guy with his quad box bots and his OP stratagy because no player is immune to that series of knockbacks he does since GF knocks can even get you during a dash or evade move. a GWF didn't even stand a chance because even if he fills up his dominance bar he can't use it prone and your prone the whole fight til you die.
There's no reason to farm glory in this game (anymore). Also I don't know about anybody multiboxing this. What you faced is a lame premade (if they continued to farm you without offering 1 vs 1).
I am leveling a tr, at lvl 50 atm. But this will not be a cookie cutter or stealth build. I will do my best to be a hybrid that does not have too much stealth or damage, but a balance of both. Sure I will get mauled by these builds but as long as I can make just ONE of these understand how cheap they are, I have succeeded. None-cheap TR is very fun to play as, I recommend it!
EDIT- I thought "reply" was going to quote the person, added @Pointsman.
except to buy T1 gear to salvage for rough AD.
which, on topic, would be good for getting better gear for PvP.
On the other hand my main is a DC, a PVE DC with full miracle set, enchants (not the highest though but 5-7) and full epic gear (ancient). He has a GS of 12.2. He gets beaten to death easily in PVP. Hardly can do a lot against good geared players, not even against weaker geared players. A stealthed TR can basically just kill him with throwing knives and using impact shot.
And that shows the big unbalancing in this game concerning PVP. A rogue can do fine because he stealthes and runs away and uses his CC like smoke bomb (or the bugged impact shot that has a CC component what is not written in tooltip) while on the other hand has high damage abilities to finish those off that have already low health. And on top of that you can just throw knives from stealth and be quite safe. A very good geared PVE DC on the other hand is like a sitting duck in PVP, if you don't gear DCs (what basically all PVP DCs do) with lots of Regen and Def gear then you are lost. The weird thing about this is that you have to play the DC as a defensive wall, that basically doesn't do a lot of damage but doesn't heal either (so basically he fails in his role completely from an RP point of view), he just stands there to block a node because people can't kill him fast. A weak geared TR on the other hand can take some cheap blue gear which is focussed on PVE content and be good in PVP. And if a blue geared TR can do fine, a perfectly geared TR is completely out of reality.
PVP is so completely wrong in this game that one can only shake his head.
From a gear perspective, I suppose a quasi gear check system could be implemented, where the system would try to place characters with others of like gear scores, and after a period broken the gear discrepancies, but as others have noted, GS is not necessarily a good indicator of the relative power of a character.
Sounds like you need to divide-and-conquer for that group, perhaps a full 5 man stealth TR team, or at least 2 TRs and a decoy tank that can withstand the first set of the GF sequence to kick things off. Get the first GF to start the sequence. Once the other two start, two TRs start stealth-nailing the other GFs from behind with the goal to break the sequence and get them separated. The other two chars take on the CWs. Your chance at getting a pug that can take that down is very slim.
After module 2 goes live we'll see how Rangers can fit into the equation as well providing hit-and-run archery.
This exemplifies my, as someone called it above, 'too literal' point about balance. You're stuck as what you are. You may never be what you need to take down certain groups or players. The classes are designed for certain roles. Based on those roles, no matter how good you are, you may be stuck as 'scissors' while the other is always 'rock', and you can't change into 'paper' without changing characters. Everyone thinks that 'I should have a equal chance to win every fight', and that is just simply not the case. You might have some tiny chance. A class designed for high 1-on-1 damage is going to take out your squishy caster type 90 times or more out of 100 if played by someone of equal skill and equal gear level, and yet people complain about that and call it 'unbalanced'.
I agree that the queue system is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I also don't like that you can't just go off into some remote corner of a map and PvP with friends 1v1, 2v2, 1v2, etc. to practice or have fun. I could go for open pvp areas that contain pve questing to give 60s something to do (protecting the little guys who need to do the quests in that area from the 'evil' characters trying to kill them, or just PvP with each other with the possibility of mobs coming down on you during your battle). That does open the door to griefing though, so there would need to be something in place to help counteract that.
Rar'rizton Kenana, Level 60 Drow Elf Trickster Rogue
Syrus Greycloak, Level 30 Moon Elf Control Wizard
Lucan Huntinghawk, Level 17 Moon Elf Hunter Ranger
Sacred Silver Blades (www.sacredkeep.com)
Yes, except all classes beside DC are designed for high 1-on-1 damage so squishy caster type is truly and well ****ed.
Any game with 3 of a kind is a troll premade. Trust me there's way worse then that. I've been q sniped by 5gwf sents. Also ran into 5dc tanks. Those matches are the only time when leaving is permitted in my opinion. Because there's really almost nothing u can do and it wastes your time
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Unfortunately, it does. When you're the only one to run at the point 2, and your team all runs to the home point - it's 99% over. The enemy team runs to your home point after taking 2, they kill all your teammates right after, and the match becomes one sided slaughter at your home point, because 99% matches end like this, it's just statistics. You can try to cap their point, but they will recap it right after, so you won't get any score points for it (unless you're sentinel regen GWF or permastealth-tenebrous TR so you can hold half of enemy team at their node).
Usually, those players leave after they got melted. I played well about 40 matches in last few days to farm 24k glory on my GWF to buy new artifact, and I can ensure you - they leave. A few start to act like a bot standing somewhere anywhere possible but not on the capture node and die, and die, and then die some more. Others leave. Unfortunately, there's no fun at all in those matches. Worse, that barely anyone can understand "my team sucks, lets do 1vs1".
Everything is bad.
Agreed. Also even premades have stopped 1v1ing. I won't mention names but I get irritated when its a 5v1 match and all they want to do is brag about how good they are at killing random pugs
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If naming&shaming would be allowed, I'd post a few hours of videos from some of the best geared players in the game which I happened to pug with, farming newbies mercilessly beneath spawn, or even trying to draw them out, or my calls for 1 vs 1 remaining unanswered while the only person remaining in the game, then when I got down, all 5 pro PvPers jumped my CW like there was no tomorrow and it was the last kill they'll ever make.
These being said, there are some PvPers that will kill you just as mercilessly while the match is ongoing, but when it's all over, they stop, offer 1 vs 1, and let the losers cap points if they want to.
Props to those that do this.
I fully agree.
I can't stand it when 4 people go to take home. This is as dumb as it gets. The worse part is when they come to "help" me cap uncontested point, or when I contest wit some GWF or DC or even TR 1 vs 1 (because there's nobody else that would do it), and they come 2-3 again to "help" me while the other points are being red. Drives me crazy. "Only 1 person contests with the perma/sent etc.". "Why are you all at homebase?!?". "Leave I don't need help here", again and again, but they just won't comprehend.
So lately I just leave when I see them go to home at start. Selfish behavior for 300 points, I will not tolerate, requeue.
This is just insane. We've got home point (1 for example), we've taken point 2. I assume that we are stronger/better geared and decide to take point 3 myself. Taking 1 kill there, second. And then I see entire ally team coming to me to "help" me. They lose 2, then 1, separate, starting to lose. "Only 1 person contests with the perma/sent etc.". "Why are you all at homebase?!?". "Leave I don't need help here" doesn't help, they don't read, don't know english or don't care. I'd like to see an official guide or forced link to someone's guide ("A Beginners Guide to Successful PvP by Alysin Chains" for example) before they join pvp. 90% of pvp balance is in players' heads.
Eh - don't be so dramatic. Sure it doesn't help but it's not a game-breaker. Try this instead: If your whole team goes initially to home base at the start, *you go with them*. Then once the base is captured, the entire team then goes immediately to point 2 and smashes them. This strategy minimizes the disadvantage associated with going immediately to home base. Plus, wouldn't you rather play at point 2 with your team, rather than go there alone at the start and face the entire enemy team alone?
I guess my big point here is, "lighten up, Francis". Casual players aren't the hyper-competitive, hyper-driven hard-core PVPers determined to win every single match.
And yes the blame is in every little kid who read on the forums that TR's, GF's,GWF's are OP in PVP...So they just folowed some random dude guide and copied his all skills and feats and just hope to be just as good as he is. Thats in my opinion plain dumb and will not encourage anyone to do that. As one sayd in this thread: " To win in a PVP match u need a well coordinated team and a little brain."
Its not the unkillble GWF's, the army of TR's or any premade teams fault u lost. Its because u all rushed to the home base, or u just went on 1 vs 5 and died a lot. What i mostly experienced in almost all games is having 2-3 TR's that only rush to kill on middle. They die over and over again, but no1 goes behind them and cap that point.
So if anyone needs a giude in PVP domination here's one:
-rule number 1: only 1 player goes to home to cap
-the main goal is to keep the 3 points blue and dominate the other team( and by dominate does not mean u have to kill them over and over and over..)
-so if ur a GF,TR or GWF go cap away from ur team
-dont go helping ur teammate cap a point on wich there is no enemy
-u see a 1vs1 fight,let them fight and move on where u are needed (im pissed on fighting someone and when hes 1% HP i get a backstab from a TR...)
- no matter if u die a lot, ur not among the firsts in the rank page,what matters at the end is the team that WON. Get that through ur head.
In my opinion what changes should be made on this domnion, is not changeing the queue system to match GS, not changing skills or ban some for each class...like some suggested. Just take out the premade groups, and let them just be random. Also put a ban to those leaving the game for the first 5 min or something like this. Cause if they arent able to form premade partys and rule over the field will give both partys the chance to adapt to theyr teamates and both team will hav the confusing though on what the others will do...therefore at least from the beginning both team have equal chances.
Another suggestion would be to mask players name and just give them random tags: player1,player2..etc At least that way will be impossible for ppl to check the enemies GS and complain about HIGH GS.
Anyways, there's much to be done in there...but before assaulting Cryptic for not doing anything to PVP, u should remember that Neverwnter is in beta stage, and for the moment they are to busy working on PVE content and classes,gear,skills etc etc...to give ppl a choice when they start playing the official release. When all that is done and we will have multiple choices in character builds, then and only then u may ask for some other arenas or PVP activity.
For the moment thank u for everything Cryptic. Respect.
Wrong on that at the current state of PVP, dailies and salvaging. Winning does not help much if you are the last on the list. Your glory will be low. Glory is used to buy stuff for salvaging to have a steady income while doing the daily PVP quests. For newbies glory makes them get the PVP armor much faster and be faster competitive in PVP.
There is no leaderboard, no scores, no second XP bar for some PVP skills, no quests that are finished by winning, no boons that unlock by winning, no titles... nothing where a win would benefit you in any way so you could forget about personal score in the matches itself. If you are number one in the list due to kills but your team lost badly you still walk away with a good amount of glory and in the end might have more AD in the same time than the poor GF that blocked a node 10 minutes, never recapped and hardly killed someone because the others dealt the final damage.
Forgive the criticism, but one might say "potions" would present a roadblock to open world PvP. Potion is an integral mechanic to any game, but in NVW the amount of healing PvP and PvE potions give--in relation to how hitpoint is scaled against player or non-player-characters--is too displaced right now. I'm all for open world PvP or any kind of PvP "balancing". Despite all the crying and nerf bats flying around here in the forums, the occasional solid arguments and number crunching could get important ears to listen.
In retrospect, these suggestions require dev time, budget and further testing. Cryptic's silence gives us a right to our assumptions, but our own opinions must not invalidate the work (if any) that goes on without our knowledge.
Every class has a role to play. Any person may go out of his way to dedicate his class towards a different role. Say, a regen TR, dps Cleric. I can relate how gearscore and enchanting may be seen as broken, but as I put it aside: It just strikes me as obvious that scissor builds no matter what class will cut thru paper. Throw a rock to the glass cannon it will shatter. Fire the cannon to anyone to blast them to pieces. Play the scissor in a dumb way somebody will cut himself. Pitfalls. Advantages. Disadvantages. Strategic decisions made during combat, either from sheer experience or theorycrafting, are what drives the tide of battle and eventually leads to the argument of BALANCE.
Sure PvP shoud be fun for everyone, but this includes me. I woud tell a lie, if I woud say, that I dont care about winning, but I dont care a lot about it, if it is a decent fight and my team does its best.
I wont waste 5 minutes of my time for a team of soloplayers leeching of other players efforts, making a win impossible by playing only in their own immidiate interest, disregarding teamplay at all. This goes out to all the players <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the capture of a point by running after the last surviving member of the other team, while the respawned rest of them takes the point.
I met a former guildmember from another MMORPG here and she hated PvP. We convinced her to join us for PvP and she liked it alot. The difference was not, that she had better gear, but a team, where the DC healed his teammembers and the team protected the DC and each other, resulting in an (almost) certain win.
I woud hate, if they banish premade teams from PvP, because at last 50% of the fun is trashtalking your friend, while having fun together.
The problem here is not GS, but teamplay. If we go up against a premade PvP team with 13k+ GS and perfect... aso., they burn us like cinder, but this is one out of 10 games and the win because of teamplay AND GS, not because of their GS.
PvP is not vile at all, it is very good.
It just lacks balance, completely, and ladders.
Yes the enchants also make a HUGE difference, sometimes is extremely cheesy&lame. For example, with a perfect vorpal as a CW I can 3 shot most pugging squishies without giving them a chance to reply to my attack. Such combos are completely <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, PvP encounters should take way longer, a match should not be lost if the enemy gets the first spell on you cause of better ping for example.
The solution is to separate balance for PvP and to make PvP gear with resilience compulsory is you don't want to get one-shot. This way you can balance the exact amount of damage and survivability a class can push.
Very simple.
Cryptic should use GWF as bosses in dungeons, much more entertaining.