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Weapon Master's Strike (WMS) got nerfed? Or fixed?
aznxknightz
Member Posts: 114 Arc User
The only reason i took this skill was because you could "potentially" do more damage if you use sprint in between hits thus generating a "phantom" on the first hit. But on the preview server if you do the initial hit, sprint, and attack again with WMS the attack is prevented. Yes PREVENTED. There is no strike at all, you just stand there and do nothing. Same thing when you are in unstoppable mode, you just stand there.
So is this the fate of WMS? Looks like it'll just be a useless at will now. I'm very disappointed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PMBlRFduUc
So is this the fate of WMS? Looks like it'll just be a useless at will now. I'm very disappointed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PMBlRFduUc
Post edited by aznxknightz on
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This was declared an unintended animation cancelling move by the devs in the most recent Preview patch notes, as per above, and what you describe is likely the fix they implemented.
Note, that does not mean all animation cancelling is considered unintended. There are many similar actions in the game, like in all MMOs, some of them heavily used, e.g. partially cancelling Steal Time by CWs.
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I too am getting these Database Forum Errors whenever I try to access my "User CP" directly. I'm using Chrome.
True. Some animation cancellations are allowed to be intentional. Most (if not all) that are used in a manner to do more damage, as far as I've seen, are not intentional. Good clarification though. Thanks
Swordmaster GWF now does less damage than a DPS GF, both single target and Aoe, Can't tank, can't Control.
Will Iron Vanguard save the class.?
Hahhahhhaha... Yeah....
True. The problem with the GWF class right from the beginning (and it does appear to be a unique problem) is that devs never just tweak or tune its skills. It's either massive wholesale nerfs or buffs and Module 2 appears to continue in this classic tradition!
In the past, this would have been an isolated problem. Now balancing changes will affect two classes, i.e. the fused GWF and GF. For example, GF gain nothing of consequence from Module 2, while their critical skills have been given to GWF. So, now there is the very large risk that devs nerf those current and already invested critical skills (yes, respecs and playstyle changes cost) because of excessive synergy in the context of GWF, while at the same time claim they are buffing GFs by slightly improving the new Paragon that almost no one wants to play.
This process has already begun because the AP gain of Frontline Surge has been massively nerfed (yet AP gain is particularly important for GFs, nowhere near as much for GWFs)...
I assume that this means WMS/Wicked Strike weaving is the way to go for PvE AoE?
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
ill be using sure and wicked since reaping is is one of the worst attack skills ive seen in 15 years of gaming and wms is dead for gwf, it still might be good for dps gfs since they have good at wills and they can use it only for the buff
funny how class that already has the worst at-wills in the game get their only good aoe at-will removed, despite tr hitting more per hit with 375 dmg weapon in blue gear than 13k gs dps gwf with ancient weapon on a single target at-will, hit less than his weapon damage cause **** logic
And it is sure starting to feel like every time we find a silver lining in the nerf cloud they make sure to ruin that skill also.
It is the other way around. Good gamers, do not need to abuse glitches. Bad gamers do.
I'm glad they have started addressing the animation cancellation bugs. Let's just hope they're going to fix all of them.
Seeya.
I agree with this statement 100%
This to me is the crux of the issue though. They keep messing with GWFs for reasons im not entirely sure. Of all the classes that can cancel animations to their benefit why start with the class that has the slowest animations? As it is, most players already know how to get out of the way of some our best skills simply do to the fact that they have such long animations. But god forbid we do what every other class does and cancel an animation to our advantage.
Never mind the fact that they ruined unstoppable because as they put it "it lived up a little too well to its name". Never mind the fact that Unstoppable can be canceled by a simple knock back yet my stuns don't stop other classes skills from firing off. Never mind the fact that other classes can still cancel animations to their advantage, no, the issue here is clearly how OP GWFs must be. I don't know who this god like GWF is that they keep basing all these needed changes on but I'd sure like to meet him.
And this new change to WMS is clearly a nerf. Not only is it much slower now but it also seems like its doing even less damage per hit now too.
If you couldn't figure it out, I'm referring to getting knocked backed while using unstoppable which waste a great deal of unstoppable due to the knock back animation. As for using this without unstoppable, I rarely did it. Unstoppable for me is aoe at-will, no unstoppable is single target at will.
I'm not rationalizing btw. 98% of the time I use single target at will. Once unstoppable kicks in I hold a direction and spam weapon master strike I don't use sprint. If I use it without unstoppable, then I use the way it's intend just standing there. However, if they aren't going to fix the Maw's knock-back at least change unstoppable tool-tip. Circling the Maw is the only option or any other monster that knock-backs 100% like ogres (not quite unstoppable
I'll give credit where credit is do, when they first nerfed unstoppable, they totally broke it. So much so that I almost gave up playing my GWF. But they ended up fixing it so that it wasn't really that bad of a nerf. Although I do wish they'd remove the part where our determination ticks down over time. For me it feel very unbalanced, what other class has this issue? TRs stealth bar fills up over time if they do nothing which is huge since it makes for a super powerful hit. DCs divinity bar can be filled and saved for emergencies if needed. Not exactly sure about the GFs bar.
But unstoppable is a main stay of the GWFs power and the fact that we lose part that power over time simply because we're running to the next group of mobs or collecting quests or whatever seems very odd and unbalanced to me. Not to mention (as stated in my last post) it doesn't make sense that a skill called unstoppable can canceled in the middle of firing off by a simple knock back.
First off: Determination bar is like a rage bar. If you don't have threat against you, you don't get angry. Simple said. Additionally give some feats/skills you determination. So you cool down if you have to travel to your next angry target. TR can't fill up her stealth(if it's not full before) if they remain attacked.(but don't know if it's true) GF have simple no Tab power. Mark disappear after a mob hit you unblocked, what is most time happened or against a large group of mobs. So don't Q.Q that you have the weakest tab power.
Especially don't Q.Q about Maws attack. I have a few times i get killed while guarding, because it let me fly into lava due this attack. It's not a unstoppable bug, it's simple a bugged attack from maw. A GWF can sprint outside of that attack, try it as GF. If you don't react instant it pop up the red circle, you can't avoid it.
And what knock back cancel firing? I only know that you can't use unstoppable while lying, but that's normal due how a guy will rage that ly on ground?
first off, any of our feats and skills that help give determination give so little that they aren't really worth using which mean that 99% of our determination is built from getting hit. I don't know about you but losing 25%-50% of my HP just to fill the bar doesn't feel right since as soon as im out of combat it start to go away.
2nd, TRs can fill their stealth bar using "Invisible Infiltrator - Class Feature After using a daily power, refills your Stealth meter."
Which may not seem like much but considering how fast they can fill up their action points do to skills/feats means they can fire off dailies faster/more often then any other class. So while TRs only have 1 move to fill their stealth bar while being actually being hit they have many ways to help fill it as long as they don't actually get hit. And lets not forget that can choose to save their stealth until they need it as opposed to the GWFs use it or lose it determination.
3rd, I wont speak for anyone else but Im not saying that our tab skill is the weakest, far from it. What I am saying is that there is an unbalance created from the tick down. Look at this way, ever wonder why GWFs tend to run out in front of a squad to attack first? Its not to increase our damage score, it's to build determination. Unlike other classes we need to get hit in order to use our tab skill. And we cant get hit if all the mobs are attacking everyone but us or getting knocked all over the place do to the other classes knock backs, chasing mobs does not build determination. Or in the case of PvP, a TR can go stealth and run up to another class with very little chance of getting knocked back since no one knows they're there until they been hit. But even if they don't go stealth first, they can wait until all the knock backs have been fired off before going stealth or if so want they can stealth, hit, fire off a daily, get knocked back, stealth again, hit again. But a GWF can fire off unstoppable, be canceled by repel then die trying to get to a CW that's attacking and kiting away from them.
And finally, I cant count how many times I'll be in the middle or firing off unstoppable in PvP and the get hit by GF, DCs knock back or even a CWs repel and realize that im not in unstoppable mode. I know it fired off because I here the sound, see the animation start but then after I stop moving from the knock back im not in unstoppable mode. Now if that's not a cancel I don't know what is. Not to mention that some mobs do it too. Seems kind of pointless to call a skill unstoppable if it can be stopped by simply getting pushed away.
For example , the wms : good players do not need cancellation ( wow! ) . bad / inexperienced players simply do not know how to use . The median - in my case - need to quickly accumulate stacks of weapon master / destroyer (without these skills , I do not produce damage).
You see, the median/inexperienced player not gain anything by this change . Only the tops remain untouched , so ... Why the change?
The problem is challenging someone to keep the bonus weapon master / destroyer , using only reaping strike , without cancellation.
The class is simply not adapted to the changes that we intend to do ... not to mention the destroyer which provides critical damage but has no bonus critical chance . But I've made my speech in another topic about it. Stay here as a sign of hope .
I've never used the exploit and have no trouble keeping my DPS up.
I don't run ahead to get hit and build Unstoppable or to get DPS (well not always
I should port her back to Preview and check the change, but if they have slowed WMS down further that is bad, if anything it needs to be slightly faster in both modes... Sigh something else to do.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
Doing a search before you post is fine, not doing a search ( you know not typing a similar topic in the search function) can result in post that as a euphemism look ridiculous.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?489661-Control-Immunity-still-bugged-and-Client-Server-synchronisation-still-bad
The issue with control immunity is an old one and has been reported plus it has its own thread. Somethings did get fixed for example Draco's aoe. However, somethings remained the same and were forgotten about until other changes called for their revisit. Whereas the thread above focuses on the GF, other threads have been more specific in regards to the GWF. The GWF for example has had it's immunity disregarded by CW's in the past and at one point in the past could be dazed during unstoppable. Luckily, the daze effect from two of the TR skills have been fixed to a certain degree. The CW immunity disregarding bug still persist but less often and is due to client/server interaction.
If I had to vote, I say let them destroy the GWF class, forget what iergo or anyone has to say in defense/against this fix and move along. We're getting a ranger! The GWF had it's time and failed as the 5th class, good bye and good riddance. Its obituary was prepared long ago, unlike a celeb it was never popular.
Anyone remember the gold ranger? I don't, I remember disappointment; that's the GWF.
Question: Why does the skill have an animation? To prevent it from getting spammed, faster than it is intended?
Have a nice day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLFFJETIgA
The Pro's who play street fighter also animation cancel. Animation cancelling of special attacks were eventually made part of many fighting games and incorporated into combos. It actually takes skills to find and execute animation cancels. I don't know about you, but that sounds pro to me.
I'm going to add this edit and say that it's really up to the Dev's of each particular game to allow or disallow certain animation cancels because the potential for abuse in some are very high.
Efficiency > time wasted!
Still don't remember the gold ranger; GWF! Hopefully, something else gains it's power (ranger) when it loses it (GWF); gold ranger!
Now that other players will see the GWF as losing it's one and only noteworthy ability WMS, even more players will boycott the GWF.
I agree animation cancelling should be "fixed" But never before the prime problem with the GWF "No roll in the party" The list of buffs the GWF receives in module 2 tells me that the devs have paid a little attention to what players wanted from the class, but they are taking baby steps forward and the loss of WMS is a giant step backwards.
I have enough passing intrest to do a module 2 review of the GWF to see if the GWF buffs are raising players opinions of the GWF and to see if Iron Vangaurd also helps the GWF. What I expect is that no GWF will play Swordmaster anymore, GWF's will still get as much or more hate from other players as they have always done, for not being useful in PvE. And Iron Vangaurd will not be able to replace the lost WMS but it will keep the GWF limping along barely surviving the game.
And depending on how good the Ranger is will determine if the GWF is permanently killed off.
Really thats is what your logic gives you?
Skills have animations to guide (emphasis on guide, not allow/disallow) players when to perform actions. But they also have animations to give an aesthetically pleasing impression, and also give a realistic depiction of the performed action.
Stop argumenting against animation cancelling when it is part of every game out there. Acknowledge people who put thought, and find more efficient ways to do the things others do mechanically, without thinking.
Animation cancelling is clearly part of Neverwinter mechanics, and as all mechanics it will be tested and changed time and time again, on a case-by-case basis (as WMS).
If it was a glitch, people would get banned for it. Haven't heard of anyone getting banned.
People also say, that enchantment swapping is a game mechanic. Trying to justify something that is wrong, over and over again, doesn't magically make it become legit. In the end, i am right and you are wrong, it's easy as that.
seeya.
LOl why you discuss with such guys? They are cheater nothing more.
A developer stated that's not intended so it's an exploit. Nothing else.
We're talking about a class that needs to stay active, within a 3 second time, trapped in a "stacks" system .
No damage, you do not generate threat. No you do not damage dps. No threat / damage you're left in the party. This is not a moral Discussion or about player x or y has to overcome their problems (give me strength, Lord!) . It is a discussion of an insensitive change the mechanics of the class most likely to encourage players to create the IV, which has the same problem simply because it is also insensitive to mechanical class.
Actually I suspect such posts are a waste in comparison to reporting the bug using their client's bug reporting mechanism. One goes on the stack of reports automatically the other if some second party to the person with the complaint puts it there.
If you work in any client service situation; issues in your queue take precedence over word of mouth issues (situational judgements aside). Forum posts = word of mouth.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
If you play mmos for 13 years (Ultima, Everquest, Lineage, DaoC, WOW) and consider animation cancelling a glitch, I have news for you. You are a bad, bad (emphasis on bad) player, because it was part of all these games' mechanics. That's nothing though, you can still log in and play Neverwinter any way you like, please stop criticizing the way other people play, and please stop pushing to dumb down the combat engine's mechanics and skill cap, and turn this from an action game to a turn based game.
Sorry to burst your bubble, byebye :*
Hit me up on NW legit channel sometime, I'd love to go on a dungeon run with you, see where do you come from. Unlike you, I cannot deduct a person's playstyle though forum posts.
Have you thought about the reasoning behind this change, maybe it was because forcing a much more input-heavy playstyle on only one of the 5 classes, made the game less fun/more tiring for them, less accessible to a group of players, and did not form a good basis for future development of the class? And it had nothing to do with glitches/abuses/exploits/cheaters?
You know what they about the simplest answers, they are usually the correct ones.
Bye bye.