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Why no cooldown if u switch enchants?
yuccapalm
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 195 Bounty Hunter
I already have my Soulforged on my second armor. I'll switch it if im low hp, if I die I will get revived with about 10k hp. You can play with an Elven battle / Negation or what ever and open ur inventar and switch soulforged if ur about to die. So why u dont give enchants like 1 min cooldown or 90 seconds. I also take advantage of switching but with the new soulforged it will be even more op. I think any enchant should get at least 20 seconds cooldown if u switch it...
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Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
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NIGHTSWATCH
Much cheaper and easier to change just one enhancement than overhaul an inventory system.
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Otherwise, good idea. But far too late for current Soulforged
Great thought!
Bad and unnecessary idea. It should be at least possible to swap gear in spawn areas to combat different enemy compositions or strategy swaps.
i agree with this. item swapping should just be unavailable in combat.
Stop trying to limit our choices in armor tactics....
i'll put this to you in a D&D perspective.
my level 60 character, fred, is battling trolls and is getting severely beaten when a beholder pops out of nowhere. fred knows he has better suited enchanted armor. i tell the DM:
me: i'm going to swap armor!
DM: seriously?
me: yes!
DM: <rolls dice> that puts you inactive for 12 minutes... and... <rolls dice> the trolls and the beholder eat you for lunch.
me: NOOOO!!!!!!
swapping armor in a few seconds just isn't a very believable scenario in combat. doing so to extend your survivability can be construed as an unfair advantage over other players, both in pve and pvp.
Also notice this game is not exactly like D&D or AD&D.
You change weapons rings and even armor depending on who your DM is when playing.
Some DM's will make you drop the item you are trying to equipt...
We don't have the full random aspect here as well...
So if you want to try to bring real D&D elements to this as we did while playing, it's not possible.
TR can't re-arm traps or set new traps.
When we rest at campfires its only 2 mins instead of hours to heal...
You want real D&D methods in a MMO ... it's not gonna work the same...
End of story...
Best option to make this armor issue a non issue is to keep the current enchantment cooldown on switching to new armor.
Swap while not engaged? Go for it.
Does enchant swapping have a basis in D&D 4e (the system this game is based on)? Yes. I've played D&D 4e for a few years now, and item swapping is a very viable way to play the game. There were several ways in 4e to make drawing and stowing items a free action (effectively zero time). Many players who were extreme character optimizers would grab many different items with various enchantments and swap between them freely both during and out of combat. Sure, it is extremely hard to do this with, for example, *Armor*, but weapons/rings/items were a completely different story. DMs would need to up encounter budgets by 3-4 levels over "hard" difficulty to present even remote challenges.
If 4e is the justification to disable all enchant swapping, then potions ought to take a couple of seconds to channel before activating because your character in 4e would have to stow their weapon (minor action), draw the potion (minor action), and drink the potion (another minor action).
One thing I think we can all agree on is that enchant swapping definitely upsets some people. But, so do perma rogues, tenebrous, GF chain prones, sentinel GWFs, lashing blade crits, shocking execution, ice knife one-shots etc.
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I mean, you could be invincible with enough perfect barkshields, swapping them over and over again so you always had one with 3 charges on. Possibilities like this are obviously design oversights and are not working as intended.
I see no justification for being able to swap a full suit of armor in combat with no round time. I have no problem with someone swapping armor in combat if, say, it locks down all their abilities for 15 seconds and roots them. If you want to pop an immunity and swap and take the penalty because you think it's the best option; more power to you.
I used to play an MMO called Gemstone III. You had round time to wear and remove any piece of armor, during which you could take no action. If you wanted to, you could train in armor and reduce this round time. You could even get it down to very low amounts (1 second or so) for light armor if you were a master in the skill. Swapping weapons could be done quickly, but you were vulnerable while doing it (huge defense penalty). Something like that is realistic and opens up the possibility for people to do it if they need to.
Why on earth would you want cryptic to prevent us from doing that?
We don't have to get our PvE screwed even more, because of the coding failure being abused on PvP side.
Just prevent CDs to be reseted on enchants when the armor is being swapped. Problem solved.
Umm, you realise that this is 4e DnD, it isn't like 1-3.5 where you had to pick the spells you wanted to cast and could only cast them once per day. In 4e you had 3 types of spell/ability-
At-Will - Can be used every round in combat without having to recharge it.
Encounter - Can be used a limited amount of times per encounter (normally once) before needing a short rest (10 minutes) to recharge it.
Daily - Once per day, needs an extended rest to recharge it (6 hours)
Now whilst I'll admit that it's still not 100% accurate ingame, it's remains true that a mage can run around casting Magic Missile all day in a 4e PnP game as well.
Besides, no other MMO out there allows for switching armour and weapons in the middle of combat from your inventory, probably the only reason they allowed it in this one is because you need to literally stand still in combat for 20-30 seconds to do it which usually results in you being killed.
The natural extension of this statement is that you can have infinite soulforge, negation, or any other enchant you want to create an invincible character. However, if you actually go onto the PTR and try it out, you'll find that like enchants share a global cooldown (multiple negations, thunderheads, and soulforges all share a different timer per enchantment type) and that freshly equipped barkshields only come with one charge. Therefore, it doesn't matter if you 7 have billion armors with thunderhead enchants in your inventory, you can still only benefit from one every XX seconds. The fact that it was coded this way suggests to me that this behavior is intentional. Same deal for multiple holy avengers, feytouched, etc. So, there's no way to circumvent cooldown timers to my knowledge purely via enchant swapping that I'm aware of.
If you COULD circumvent the timer by doing that, I'd totally buy the argument that it's an exploit.
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You have a very good point. I do this all the time on multiple classes in PvE, especially DC because of different phases of long boss fights.
So, yes, only the CD mechanics on armor swap need to be solved (as per the OP), not removing an entirely useful and legitimate aspect of the game.
Exactly. And it is possible as they already did that with the Artifacts.
Does your D&D rule contain a die penalty for PvP? If no, then bad. If yes, why it isn't implemented in PvP?
And for the realistic act: You can switch your armor(it's only difficult for a heavy armor/slow person).
And the +Glory rewards in utility slot help to gain additionally glory same as fey blessing. Don't allow them to be changed, break some choices and usefulness of enchantmen(lol how will use +glory in a slot for PvE?.
It wasn't "extremely hard" to do with armor, it was impossible. Any DM that would allow such nonsense is not worth their salt. We're not talking about rings and items here, we're talking about armor enchants. It's an exploit because there is no reasonable explanation as to why this practice should be allowed. Enchants have cooldowns for a reason. This was clearly a design oversight and you are just deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
They should prevent exploiters, from being able to survive in situations, which without armor swapping would kill them. Changing an entire set from DD to tank can also be considered an exploit btw, because it gives an unfair/unintended advantage over people who don't swap their gear.
The exploiters are using macros, to swap their entire gear by pressing one key. That's 2 exploits in 1, tbh.
There is no such thing as "enchant swapping mechanics" in this game. Since 1+1 = 2, it is a glitch
and abusing a glitch is to be considered, exploiting.
I really hope the devs are going to take a look at this problem.
It's definitely not possible by any way that I know how, but we DID have a guy who showed up at the table a couple of years ago and managed to do it through creative item use. I remember it seeming a bit convoluted, but the DM at that particular game allowed it, so I'm not going to say it's impossible (and I'm more than willing to allow that yeah, that DM could have been garbage), but very hard. I just figured I wasn't creative enough to figure it out.
To be clear this thread is about "enchant swapping" not "armor swapping." Weapons and other enchanted items which ARE easy to swap in 4e tabletop work the same way here. Besides, you can't circumvent the cooldown timers anyway. If you proc a soulforged, switching to a second soulforge does nothing for you. As I stated in my earlier post, hop on the PTR and try it. Maybe you know something I don't, but enchants of like type appear to share the same global cooldown timer. To me, it seems like the devs realize that getting multiple SFs or Negations or Thunderheads would be ridiculous, and so they prevent you from doing that (bosses/pvp would become a joke - imagine infinite DR bonuses from negation and immune to damage status from soulforged). But if you're going to die with the amount of burst dps in PVP/PVE in this game, all the armor, weapon, ring, belt, or whatever swapping probably isn't going save you anyway.
Even if gear containing an armor/weapon enchant can no longer be swapped, who's to say somebody couldn't get boosts to stats they need at the time (a rogue switching to a full regen/deflect set after blowing their encounters comes to mind). Again, I'm happy with the system in it's current state because EVERYONE can do it and I personally think it adds an interesting element of strategy to the game ("which enchant is best used in this combat?"), but if they remove it they should ensure NOBODY can do it with ANY piece of gear.
Either way, I'm a happy gal.
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you do bring up a very good point.
death in tabletop d&d means game over. but it becomes an issue of what kind of concession are we going to make because this is an MMO? there currently isn't any penalty for dying in pvp. you just respawn.
if you are able to continue to benefit from an armor enchant that has already proc'd by swapping armor, then why have a cool down at all? in my opinion, this is definitely something that has been missed and we'll see a fix for in the future. whether that fix is to prevent armor swapping in combat or chaining cool downs from one enchant to the other, either would be a welcome change.
it's not so much wanting to prevent changing armor bonuses needed in pve strategies, but moreso a prevention of taking advantage of endless soulforged or endless any enchantment... which is already used towards unfair advantages in pvp.
Just proced your soulforged? Swap armor won't let it proc again until the initial cooldown has worn off on your CHARACTER (as opposed to ITEM).
Particularly with Module 2 where Soulforge actually revives you, this would be necessary IMO as people (such as TR) can just get our of combat mode fast and swap armor. Additionally, you don't count as in combat immediately after being revived usually.
Are you serious? Enchantments are imbued, into armors...
Anyways, trying to justify abusing glitches isn't going to work on this one.
Take care.
I'm quite serious. It doesn't even look like you read the post.
Other items BESIDES armors have enchantments. Your weapons, rings, belt, shoes, etc all have offense/defense/weapon enchant slots where enchants are slotted, don't they? I'm not sure why everyone insists on ONLY focusing on armors. If you want to change the current system, you should make it apply to ALL enchants INCLUDING stat boosting ones when changing. Allow gear swaps all day if you want, but none of the stats or special enchant properties take effect until some global CD is up (of course, there's the stats from the gear itself but our focus in this thread deals with the enchants).
I'm not sure how I can be any clearer.
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