Comments like this are why I feel that you don't fully understand what you are arguing about.
Thanks for your comments, but I feel I'll just have to agree to disagree with you and move on to discussing this with someone that doesn't have such a 1 sided unwarranted PvP opinion on the matter.
allow me to clarify my stance a bit for you then. Control lock works as it is exactly intended to work in that I hope for my target above an enemy I hit the button and it locks on to that target. Therefore the mechanic is functioning exactly as it was designed and intended to. Therefore it is safe to assume that since it has been this way since the beginning of the game and sense this issue has been brought up before with no change to it that this is how the developers intended for it to work.so taking these things into consideration the amount of time that it has been this way despite being brought up before the function working properly as it is intended and the fact that is an intrinsic part of gameplay I would submit that altering it at this point would be a change to a game mechanic.
I am NOT opposed to altering a game mechanic for the sake of balance however changing this serves no other purpose beyond improving a rogue in an aspect which quite frankly it does not need.
as others have stated tactics me overcome this deficiency that you see. As others have still stated even when their auto tracking you you cannot be targeted by powers anyway.so to take the stands that it somehow balances PvP is quite frankly incorrect. To also think that rogues don't have the deck slanted in their favor already is quite frankly also incorrect. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many roGues are playing PvP to begin with.
I fully understand what my stance is in this particular issue I'm not so sure you actually do.
As others have still stated even when their auto tracking you you cannot be targeted by powers anyway.so to take the stands that it somehow balances PvP is quite frankly incorrect. To also think that rogues don't have the deck slanted in their favor already is quite frankly also incorrect. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many roGues are playing PvP to begin with.
I fully understand what my stance is in this particular issue I'm not so sure you actually do.
Your stance isn't a stance at all. You feel that for whatever reason a broken mechanic is justified because you feel that TR's have some special stacked deck? <--kinda makes me lol
Stealth. Vanish from sight. But you feel its ok to Auto Lock a target, that you can no longer see. Right. That is so clear I cant even think of another way to explain it to you.
Its particular. GWF's at-wills for example, while auto locked on you while in stealth, can hit you. Why? Because they don't need a "target" to use it. They spam, it does, and when your auto locked being followed. That my friend is a broken mechanic.
I don't think this should be allowed even as I only play gwf anymore for pvp. It just doesn't make sense, but also you can target rogues whenever they come in to hit you regardless, or if you chase them down after catching a glimpse even though they are still stealthed. I personally have never used this feature anyway though.
munkey you are arguing for empowering an ability that removes you from the field of vision, prevents the targeting reticule from acquiring you thus prevents direct targeting of you, grants you combat advantage while active, allows you to use at-wills with impunity without breaking the mode, and enhances all of your encounter powers when used in this mode. Stealth does all of this already. You may say you're not, but by changing the game play this is exactly what it would be doing,
You are saying that the auto tracking (notice it's tracking, not targeting) somehow is hindering the stealth ability or is broken because it is doing exactly what it was intended to do? Auto track an opponent.
The only way that a GWF or other melee is going to continue to damage you while stealth is active is if they get within melee range of you to use a non target ability or an at-will. The thing is if you get that close or let them get that close to you they will detect you any way, regard less of if you were auto tracked or not... so maybe alter game play tactics and run when you are out matched.
I think we need to break the stealth mechanic down to the pen and paper version to understand how it works. It is not an invisibility or a non-targetable condition. In v3.0 and v3.5 it consisted of 2 separate skills: Hide- the ability to move unseen, and Move Silently- the ability to move unheard. In v4.0 those 2 skills were merged for convenience into the Stealth skill. In order for the skill(s) to work properly you could not be seen when attempting to move in stealth. If your opponent(s) saw you then you failed. If you were standing in front of an orc made eye contact then tried to stealth you were still seen and targeted. The game mechanic follows that reasoning. TR runs in GWF/CW/DC/GF sees them and locks onto them then they are not affected by the ability beause they see you as you try to stealth. I think many are being misled by the character on the screen becoming "invisible". There is more to the working of the skill than you are taking into consideration.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When life turns it's back on you, sneak attack it for extra damage!
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I think we need to break the stealth mechanic down to the pen and paper version to understand how it works.
While it's nice to hear about P&P and real D&D rules, NWO has barely anything to do with these. You cannot put Stealth (i.e. Hide/Move Silently) in the game without putting Spot, Darkvision, Invisibility, True Sight, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance and so on. I'm aware some of these abilities might not detect concealed thieves or so on, I'm only familiar with D&D from real D&D games such as BG/NWN, so not a specialist.
Yet I know that hiding classes can fail Hide checks, or checks can be made against them and they will be revealed, and there are abilities/feats to counter stealth mechanics, even passively.
The Stealth mechanics in this game are kinda broken IMO and give a tremendous advantage. But even like this, you still shouldn't be able to ctrl-lock a hiding TR.
Stealth. Vanish from sight. But you feel its ok to Auto Lock a target, that you can no longer see. Right. That is so clear I cant even think of another way to explain it to you.
I guess I was more or less responding to this way of thinking. Some people are assuming that the stealth ability is an "invisibility". It's not. If I read correctly when an opponent has line of sight and locks on to a TR, before he goes stealth, then he maintains lock on. When an opponent does not have line of sight, and the TR goes stealth, they can not lock on. But the multitarget attacks of the GWF and GF can still hit while they flail away. So far as I can tell it's not a broken mechanic, but maybe an incomplete understanding of the mechanic.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When life turns it's back on you, sneak attack it for extra damage!
I guess I was more or less responding to this way of thinking. Some people are assuming that the stealth ability is an "invisibility". It's not. If I read correctly when an opponent has line of sight and locks on to a TR, before he goes stealth, then he maintains lock on. When an opponent does not have line of sight, and the TR goes stealth, they can not lock on. But the multitarget attacks of the GWF and GF can still hit while they flail away. So far as I can tell it's not a broken mechanic, but maybe an incomplete understanding of the mechanic.
I'm hearing what you folks are saying.
You all make valid points.
But, in any game I've ever played. If a character goes into Stealth, that completely removes him from any sort of Targeting you may have had on him previously.
I cant imagine they intended an Auto Lock Feature, to continue to follow a Target that you can no longer specifically target.
I'm not asking for an advantage, I do quite well in PvP, but that's besides the point.
Auto Locking on a target you can no longer see, and specifically target, is a complete fail in design. Saying that TR's already have an advantage, or telling people to adjust tactics, or whatever else you can think of, doesn't matter, those are just work arounds for a Utility that imo is not working properly.
You, in general, always talks about "Balance" in PvP, and skill over gear etc. Please explain to me how you really believe that an AUTOMATIC Targeting Feature, that can track someone you can no longer see, is Balanced, or Skillful?
From reading the posts it seems the majority believe it is NOT working as it should. In order to have an actual opinion on this in particular, you have to literally take yourself out of the equation. You don't get to say things like, "Well, TR's already have an advantage, how are people supposed to see TR's when they are stealthed?" Comments like that mean nothing in this topic.
The question is cut and dry.
How can an Auto Lock feature, follow a character you can no longer see. <---That my friends is the issue at hand.
allows you to use at-wills with impunity without breaking the mode. .
Yes, because walking up to someone in stealth and swinging at them is a real advantage, making myself visible by proximity.
Such an advantage against complete newbs.
daggers from stealth, not that useful unless completely under-geared newb or a no shield CW or if you have Tene's.
People constantly over estimate the usefulness of stealthed at-wills. against "good" players.
Run up to GWF stealth and start at-will animation, quickly get prone/cc'd/knockdown, same with GF.
Add in ITC, then its good, but then stealth wouldn't be the issue, itc would
Would be great if all the GF footballers that just go straight to the place I am standing on and kick me like "**** I am fabulous!" could no longer track me in stealth lol
For real, every time I see a good experienced guardian fighter I usually just choose to run away with the facial expression like this
P.S Does anyone know how to bind target-lock-on-push btw?^^ It drives me mad that some rogues know it and can use against me while I can't.
I've faced this issue before, when running my perma stealth. It usually occurs against GWFs. Seeing as they favor the lock-on the most.
Like dodging a LB from a TR while on my CW. I had to find a way to combat this problem as well. I find "breaking the line of sight" so to speak works.
Example. If you weren't stealthed but someone locked onto you, you then dashed behind them, breaking the line of sight and breaking their lock on. This has proven to work for me when stealthed as well.
I know it's not fixing the lock-on problem, but it's a remedy for the time being as we wait to see if the devs comment on this issue.
The thing about TR stealth is when you're on the receiving end of it, it feels super OP, especially when combined with ITC and Impact Shots. Once they've burnt those, they're toast.
Directly on topic - I've never been able to make a lot of use of locking on to a TR. Can't attack them, and can't move easily while locked on. Moving / Tele is what I need to do vs a stealth TR... ofc it could be because I suck... Anyway, change the mechanic or not. Makes no odds to me
Tele Savalas, Dwarf Thaumaturge CW
Putting the Buff into Debuff since 2013 \o/ (Does that even make sense)?
Speaking from a gf's perpective I have tried the lock on it is cumbersome. Buttttttttt here's a secret I don't need it to find you guys in stealth, what most people don't pay attention to is when you guys are stealthed and pelting me with CoS I can see which direction you are. How you ask well those blue circles under your feet flash red with the direction the dmg is coming from kinda like a FPS when you get shot so ill just start lumbering over there and when I see a red outline ham bull rush and then its a b line from there
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mctankypantsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
I ran a few matches with my TR and guess what? I got hit while stealthed every single match. I even did a full match against a helpful DC just to check. He'd hit me once with his At-Will and then I'd stealth. I didn't move at first and he could without fail continue a barrage of attacks on me.
After that I moved around after being hit and then went stealthed. Still no change.
If a spell is an AoE and hits me I can fully understand a TR getting marked if that's the nature of the spell. Stealth is supposed to break after taking a certain amount of damage. Now if that damage is AoE based and not directly locked on like the DC was doing to me, I'd be fine with that.
If I stand there and continue to attack, sure it makes sense to give a percentage change that I'll be visible or detectable. If I take one hit and then decide to run the other way because it's a 3v1, I don't believe I should still be auto-locked. Maybe there's a need to fix the proximity of detection with stealth. As it's been pointed out, TR's aren't invisible. Within a set area there should be a chance to see them, especially if you're actively looking for them.
I don't know the answer of how to make stealth something everyone can live with. I only use it to bypass enemies and maybe get a surprise attack on someone. I don't actively use it in combat to maintain a perma invis scenario so my gamestyle is different from the style most people complain about.
The thing about TR stealth is when you're on the receiving end of it, it feels super OP, especially when combined with ITC and Impact Shots. Once they've burnt those, they're toast.
Directly on topic - I've never been able to make a lot of use of locking on to a TR. Can't attack them, and can't move easily while locked on. Moving / Tele is what I need to do vs a stealth TR... ofc it could be because I suck... Anyway, change the mechanic or not. Makes no odds to me
That has been my experience as well. Sure my head follows them around on screen, but what's the point when all my skills are greyed out and I can't attack? So I get to watch the a TR walk away while holding nice and still for his buddy to come up and kill me. Worst exploit ever.
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mctankypantsMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
How is that an exploit? If you're standing nice and still it's your own fault.
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darkzarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
This makes total sense and has had me wondering as well. Yeah I'm a Rogue, but there's no possible way this is working as intended, being able to follow someone whos invisible with a simple lock-on is just plain weird and makes no sense.
To the people that use the "The Rogue is able to attack from stealth" argument:
We're not talking about issues your class may or may not have with the TR. Hell, I have issues with other classes as well, but this is not what this thread is about, I could go days telling you about how no matter how hard I attack from Stealth a good GWF will feel nothing, and about how GWF's hate the fact that CW's can attack from a freaking pillar and not be able to touch them, or about how a CW can die to a Rogue without being able to unstealth him, its pretty much Rock-Paper-Scissors, and every class has its ups and downs, and still, are played by people who can counter this. This thread is about a single aspect of the game and if that same aspect is working as intended. IMHO, it isnt.
Also, people tend to forget PvP in this game is 5 vs 5 and not 1 vs 1.
To the people that use the "The Rogue is able to attack from stealth" argument:
We're not talking about issues your class may or may not have with the TR. Hell, I have issues with other classes as well, but this is not what this thread is about, I could go days telling you about how no matter how hard I attack from Stealth a good GWF will feel nothing, and about how GWF's hate the fact that CW's can attack from a freaking pillar and not be able to touch them, or about how a CW can die to a Rogue without being able to unstealth him, its pretty much Rock-Paper-Scissors, and every class has its ups and downs, and still, are played by people who can counter this. This thread is about a single aspect of the game and if that same aspect is working as intended. IMHO, it isnt.
Also, people tend to forget PvP in this game is 5 vs 5 and not 1 vs 1.
Actually, you cannot just take things out of context to suit whatever needs or issues some class might have.
The "it's 5 vs 5" and "rock-paper-scissors" arguments are just justifications for class imbalance. Given the same experience/skills/gear, any class should be capable on engaging others with a 50% success chance. This simply isn't true for NWO at all, where some classes (such as a CW for example) take lots of gear and experience to be capable to withstand any other besides a DC, and don't even start about DCs, there's basically no path/paragon to allow them to actually kill people reliably, most that they do is stall them or glass cannon with relatively bad results.
So all of these PvP discussions should be taken within context. In my opinion, the current context is that TR has way too many escapes, deals way too much PvP damage (and way not enough PvE damage) and has too much survivability, GFs and GWFs are mostly fine but some specs have too much damage (some of it ranged, which is HAMSTER) and too much survivability combined, CWs have too much burst and not enough survivability options and control, and DCs miss a path that it's purely damage.
In this context, ctrl-locking a TR is just a very, very small balancing factor, but even like this it is still lame and shouldn't be used, balance should come from the devs not from programming mishaps.
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darkzarMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Actually, you cannot just take things out of context to suit whatever needs or issues some class might have.
The "it's 5 vs 5" and "rock-paper-scissors" arguments are just justifications for class imbalance. Given the same experience/skills/gear, any class should be capable on engaging others with a 50% success chance. This simply isn't true for NWO at all, where some classes (such as a CW for example) take lots of gear and experience to be capable to withstand any other besides a DC, and don't even start about DCs, there's basically no path/paragon to allow them to actually kill people reliably, most that they do is stall them or glass cannon with relatively bad results.
So all of these PvP discussions should be taken within context. In my opinion, the current context is that TR has way too many escapes, deals way too much PvP damage (and way not enough PvE damage) and has too much survivability, GFs and GWFs are mostly fine but some specs have too much damage (some of it ranged, which is HAMSTER) and too much survivability combined, CWs have too much burst and not enough survivability options and control, and DCs miss a path that it's purely damage.
In this context, ctrl-locking a TR is just a very, very small balancing factor, but even like this it is still lame and shouldn't be used, balance should come from the devs not from programming mishaps.
I completely agree with you, context is important, but you're judging all classes in the same way when they are not meant to be played in the same way. Every class has a role it excels at, they dont have to be able to kill or survive as well as other classes, they need to be good at what theyre supposed to do. Of course, this has changed with patches, because where a class used to excel it might not do good anymore, and it may now be useful where it used to be useless, so their roles change according to how the class changes, however, I do agree with you that there might be balancing issues, but they are not as terrible as people think they are. I mean sure, GWF's can do 8-12k crits and survive 3 people on them, and a Rogue can crit you for 10k out of stealth with Impact Shot, but if were looking at 1 v 1 situations, then were gonna find imbalance everywhere. Thats why I say its a 5 v 5 game, because if im stuck against a GWF who I cant kill fast, ill have someone else do it, and switch jobs with him if able or find a new one to help my team win, I wont think about how useless I am against that GWF knowing that every second I spend worrying about that, is a second I could be elsewhere being useful. Every class that you mentioned that has a problem in PvP is a class that is necessary in a party if you want the best possible result.
Sorry for completely getting out of topic, I already gave my opinion about CTRL-Lock, and agree with you when you say that balance should come from the devs and not from "tricks" like this with no clear intention as if its there on purpose or not.
Comments
allow me to clarify my stance a bit for you then. Control lock works as it is exactly intended to work in that I hope for my target above an enemy I hit the button and it locks on to that target. Therefore the mechanic is functioning exactly as it was designed and intended to. Therefore it is safe to assume that since it has been this way since the beginning of the game and sense this issue has been brought up before with no change to it that this is how the developers intended for it to work.so taking these things into consideration the amount of time that it has been this way despite being brought up before the function working properly as it is intended and the fact that is an intrinsic part of gameplay I would submit that altering it at this point would be a change to a game mechanic.
I am NOT opposed to altering a game mechanic for the sake of balance however changing this serves no other purpose beyond improving a rogue in an aspect which quite frankly it does not need.
as others have stated tactics me overcome this deficiency that you see. As others have still stated even when their auto tracking you you cannot be targeted by powers anyway.so to take the stands that it somehow balances PvP is quite frankly incorrect. To also think that rogues don't have the deck slanted in their favor already is quite frankly also incorrect. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many roGues are playing PvP to begin with.
I fully understand what my stance is in this particular issue I'm not so sure you actually do.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Your stance isn't a stance at all. You feel that for whatever reason a broken mechanic is justified because you feel that TR's have some special stacked deck? <--kinda makes me lol
Stealth. Vanish from sight. But you feel its ok to Auto Lock a target, that you can no longer see. Right. That is so clear I cant even think of another way to explain it to you.
Its particular. GWF's at-wills for example, while auto locked on you while in stealth, can hit you. Why? Because they don't need a "target" to use it. They spam, it does, and when your auto locked being followed. That my friend is a broken mechanic.
You are saying that the auto tracking (notice it's tracking, not targeting) somehow is hindering the stealth ability or is broken because it is doing exactly what it was intended to do? Auto track an opponent.
The only way that a GWF or other melee is going to continue to damage you while stealth is active is if they get within melee range of you to use a non target ability or an at-will. The thing is if you get that close or let them get that close to you they will detect you any way, regard less of if you were auto tracked or not... so maybe alter game play tactics and run when you are out matched.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
While it's nice to hear about P&P and real D&D rules, NWO has barely anything to do with these. You cannot put Stealth (i.e. Hide/Move Silently) in the game without putting Spot, Darkvision, Invisibility, True Sight, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance and so on. I'm aware some of these abilities might not detect concealed thieves or so on, I'm only familiar with D&D from real D&D games such as BG/NWN, so not a specialist.
Yet I know that hiding classes can fail Hide checks, or checks can be made against them and they will be revealed, and there are abilities/feats to counter stealth mechanics, even passively.
The Stealth mechanics in this game are kinda broken IMO and give a tremendous advantage. But even like this, you still shouldn't be able to ctrl-lock a hiding TR.
I guess I was more or less responding to this way of thinking. Some people are assuming that the stealth ability is an "invisibility". It's not. If I read correctly when an opponent has line of sight and locks on to a TR, before he goes stealth, then he maintains lock on. When an opponent does not have line of sight, and the TR goes stealth, they can not lock on. But the multitarget attacks of the GWF and GF can still hit while they flail away. So far as I can tell it's not a broken mechanic, but maybe an incomplete understanding of the mechanic.
I'm hearing what you folks are saying.
You all make valid points.
But, in any game I've ever played. If a character goes into Stealth, that completely removes him from any sort of Targeting you may have had on him previously.
I cant imagine they intended an Auto Lock Feature, to continue to follow a Target that you can no longer specifically target.
I'm not asking for an advantage, I do quite well in PvP, but that's besides the point.
Auto Locking on a target you can no longer see, and specifically target, is a complete fail in design. Saying that TR's already have an advantage, or telling people to adjust tactics, or whatever else you can think of, doesn't matter, those are just work arounds for a Utility that imo is not working properly.
You, in general, always talks about "Balance" in PvP, and skill over gear etc. Please explain to me how you really believe that an AUTOMATIC Targeting Feature, that can track someone you can no longer see, is Balanced, or Skillful?
From reading the posts it seems the majority believe it is NOT working as it should. In order to have an actual opinion on this in particular, you have to literally take yourself out of the equation. You don't get to say things like, "Well, TR's already have an advantage, how are people supposed to see TR's when they are stealthed?" Comments like that mean nothing in this topic.
The question is cut and dry.
How can an Auto Lock feature, follow a character you can no longer see. <---That my friends is the issue at hand.
Yes, because walking up to someone in stealth and swinging at them is a real advantage, making myself visible by proximity.
Such an advantage against complete newbs.
daggers from stealth, not that useful unless completely under-geared newb or a no shield CW or if you have Tene's.
People constantly over estimate the usefulness of stealthed at-wills. against "good" players.
Run up to GWF stealth and start at-will animation, quickly get prone/cc'd/knockdown, same with GF.
Add in ITC, then its good, but then stealth wouldn't be the issue, itc would
For real, every time I see a good experienced guardian fighter I usually just choose to run away with the facial expression like this
P.S Does anyone know how to bind target-lock-on-push btw?^^ It drives me mad that some rogues know it and can use against me while I can't.
WTB Class Reroll please
Like dodging a LB from a TR while on my CW. I had to find a way to combat this problem as well. I find "breaking the line of sight" so to speak works.
Example. If you weren't stealthed but someone locked onto you, you then dashed behind them, breaking the line of sight and breaking their lock on. This has proven to work for me when stealthed as well.
I know it's not fixing the lock-on problem, but it's a remedy for the time being as we wait to see if the devs comment on this issue.
-cav
Directly on topic - I've never been able to make a lot of use of locking on to a TR. Can't attack them, and can't move easily while locked on. Moving / Tele is what I need to do vs a stealth TR... ofc it could be because I suck... Anyway, change the mechanic or not. Makes no odds to me
After that I moved around after being hit and then went stealthed. Still no change.
If a spell is an AoE and hits me I can fully understand a TR getting marked if that's the nature of the spell. Stealth is supposed to break after taking a certain amount of damage. Now if that damage is AoE based and not directly locked on like the DC was doing to me, I'd be fine with that.
If I stand there and continue to attack, sure it makes sense to give a percentage change that I'll be visible or detectable. If I take one hit and then decide to run the other way because it's a 3v1, I don't believe I should still be auto-locked. Maybe there's a need to fix the proximity of detection with stealth. As it's been pointed out, TR's aren't invisible. Within a set area there should be a chance to see them, especially if you're actively looking for them.
I don't know the answer of how to make stealth something everyone can live with. I only use it to bypass enemies and maybe get a surprise attack on someone. I don't actively use it in combat to maintain a perma invis scenario so my gamestyle is different from the style most people complain about.
That has been my experience as well. Sure my head follows them around on screen, but what's the point when all my skills are greyed out and I can't attack? So I get to watch the a TR walk away while holding nice and still for his buddy to come up and kill me. Worst exploit ever.
To the people that use the "The Rogue is able to attack from stealth" argument:
We're not talking about issues your class may or may not have with the TR. Hell, I have issues with other classes as well, but this is not what this thread is about, I could go days telling you about how no matter how hard I attack from Stealth a good GWF will feel nothing, and about how GWF's hate the fact that CW's can attack from a freaking pillar and not be able to touch them, or about how a CW can die to a Rogue without being able to unstealth him, its pretty much Rock-Paper-Scissors, and every class has its ups and downs, and still, are played by people who can counter this. This thread is about a single aspect of the game and if that same aspect is working as intended. IMHO, it isnt.
Also, people tend to forget PvP in this game is 5 vs 5 and not 1 vs 1.
Actually, you cannot just take things out of context to suit whatever needs or issues some class might have.
The "it's 5 vs 5" and "rock-paper-scissors" arguments are just justifications for class imbalance. Given the same experience/skills/gear, any class should be capable on engaging others with a 50% success chance. This simply isn't true for NWO at all, where some classes (such as a CW for example) take lots of gear and experience to be capable to withstand any other besides a DC, and don't even start about DCs, there's basically no path/paragon to allow them to actually kill people reliably, most that they do is stall them or glass cannon with relatively bad results.
So all of these PvP discussions should be taken within context. In my opinion, the current context is that TR has way too many escapes, deals way too much PvP damage (and way not enough PvE damage) and has too much survivability, GFs and GWFs are mostly fine but some specs have too much damage (some of it ranged, which is HAMSTER) and too much survivability combined, CWs have too much burst and not enough survivability options and control, and DCs miss a path that it's purely damage.
In this context, ctrl-locking a TR is just a very, very small balancing factor, but even like this it is still lame and shouldn't be used, balance should come from the devs not from programming mishaps.
I completely agree with you, context is important, but you're judging all classes in the same way when they are not meant to be played in the same way. Every class has a role it excels at, they dont have to be able to kill or survive as well as other classes, they need to be good at what theyre supposed to do. Of course, this has changed with patches, because where a class used to excel it might not do good anymore, and it may now be useful where it used to be useless, so their roles change according to how the class changes, however, I do agree with you that there might be balancing issues, but they are not as terrible as people think they are. I mean sure, GWF's can do 8-12k crits and survive 3 people on them, and a Rogue can crit you for 10k out of stealth with Impact Shot, but if were looking at 1 v 1 situations, then were gonna find imbalance everywhere. Thats why I say its a 5 v 5 game, because if im stuck against a GWF who I cant kill fast, ill have someone else do it, and switch jobs with him if able or find a new one to help my team win, I wont think about how useless I am against that GWF knowing that every second I spend worrying about that, is a second I could be elsewhere being useful. Every class that you mentioned that has a problem in PvP is a class that is necessary in a party if you want the best possible result.
Sorry for completely getting out of topic, I already gave my opinion about CTRL-Lock, and agree with you when you say that balance should come from the devs and not from "tricks" like this with no clear intention as if its there on purpose or not.