You'll get better eventually, GWF's have wayy too much potential to be underestimated. Though I can agree we need some fixing for PvE, we don't do what we're suppose to do. But compared to GF's I believe they're much much better in any scenario. Though I'm tempted to bring my GF + KC set for CN to see how fast we can burn him.
Nice achievements on those dungeons btw, I don't do T2's much anymore, but I'd like to try soloing more stuff. Last thing I've done was duo last boss in MC, slam routine, but I stopped running MC after I got my fabled fomorian weapon set. For GWF's, most bosses are doable solo, especially if the ads aren't too strong, like wights and spikers.
anyways, nice doing two man team MC final boss dragon and Valendria, or wait, you TWO man team the Dragon and Valendria, or is it before when Valendria can be bug, if this is dragon only, even a DC can kill it. LOL.
im being sarcastic, anyways, nice doing two man team MC final boss dragon and Valendria, or wait, you TWO man team the Dragon and Valendria, or is it before when Valendria can be bug, if this is dragon only, even a DC can kill it. LOL.
I don't exploit sorry.... Nice try though. (This guy lol... I even said slam routine...)
I don't exploit sorry.... Nice try though. (This guy lol... I even said slam routine...)
Come up with the video, i found that claim to be exaggerated with the way AP being generated by GWF are trash, i doubt you can generate that much AP everytime she comes down. LOL.
Come up with the video, i found that claim to be exaggerated with the way AP being generated by GWF are trash, i doubt you can generate that much AP everytime she comes down. LOL.
1st off, I said I "duo'd" the last boss. 2 GWF's. Please learn to read, also, you CAN generate AP fast enough everytime she comes down with 2 GWF's.
You should know soloing is impossible because of her suppress anyways. I guess you obviously have NO idea what you're talking about LOL.
I was there on my CW. Honestly, irdillon and another gwf really managed to duo it with that slam routine when everyone else died.
It's no exaggeration, let me tell you that.
I was there on my CW. Honestly, irdillon and another gwf really managed to duo it with that slam routine when everyone else died.
It's no exaggeration, let me tell you that.
If they can do it, I don't know why you can't.
Some people are just terrible GWF's that can only exploit. Needless to say, after seeing all the cwappy comments he made about his own class, you can safely assume he's just some lowbie that likes to trash talk on forums lololololol
Also that other GWF was Nelo, you should know that :P
I don't know of any GWF name Nelo, nor you, never partied you, but since someone here says you two man party both Valendria and Dragon, i rest my case.
fighting between fighter classes is pointless, neither of us has seen much love from the devs.
On the topic: GF has the best que times in the game, even better then DC since there are very few of us left. The main job you are actually best in the game at is kiting (long range mark, and good enough defense to keep going without heals). At some point we used to be the top DPS, but with CW buffs and the removal of stal set we really are just mediocre at best now. No good gear options, and looking at the history we will continue to get nerfed as it always has been.
GWF is supposed to be the aoe dps-er of the game, but really the cw (getting even more dps with module 2) is just better at it while also providing way more control. GWF does have some utility for certain skip runs, but they are few and you need to know the dungeons very well to do them. Just as GF, the GWF will probably share the trend of nerfs rather then buffs so competeing against the pet project CW in aoe dps will probably be even harder in the future.
Some people are just terrible GWF's that can only exploit. Needless to say, after seeing all the cwappy comments he made about his own class, you can safely assume he's just some lowbie that likes to trash talk on forums lololololol
Also that other GWF was Nelo, you should know that :P
im a lowbie, your royal higness who two man team Dragon and Valendria, im not worthy, TROLOLOLOL.
Bytheway, when someones says two man team or duo, it should be from start to finish, not full party and the rest die and you continue fighting for short time to finish it. LOL
im a lowbie, your royal higness who two man team Dragon and Valendria, im not worthy, TROLOLOLOL.
Bytheway, when someones says two man team or duo, it should be from start to finish, not full party and the rest die and you continue fighting for short time to finish it. LOL
They all wiped before Valindra came down from lag. I don't see your point.
Well, about being or not so good as gf or not , let the facts. I will share my last experience in frozen heart ... haha
Since when I took reaping strike I had no more trouble threatening . Literally a world comes up on you .
Thinking about it , the guild asked me to tank in fh ( the official gf was looking for equipment for your cw ) . I did what I had to do the first boss in the second, instead of running after him , I was in the middle using punishing charge + slam ( the boss follows you ) in short , everything was going well .
In the last boss then came the problem : when I was told to stay running around the stage ... no need to comment on the disaster of thing .
Bottom line : our system of threat , like all others, is based on damage , with the difference that we have no feats reduction . In practice , how the gwf was created , it was not for him to resist / threat have to be tank , but because he is melee aoe . Simple as that . The fact serve as a second tank is a mere consequence .
The big problem is that it lacked a dialogue . For example , see the sentinel . He initially has its own system of threats , higher defense , our instinct is to think : " I will use the equipment that most favor the defensive aspect ." But in fact do this is to kill the threat of sentinel system which, as gwf is based on damage .
About bleed; forgot to copy the log. gave my deep gash caused 700 (872) damage in iron golen ... ie, they have a resistance greater than 24% I believe. i have 24,2%
against the wizard (do not know the name) the damage was full, but 852/wms. we need to see the latest updates on them. but if some "adeptness" special armor or greater, that affects everyone, therefore, was not one nerf.
would be interesting to test an epic dd to be sure.
In the last boss then came the problem : when I was told to stay running around the stage ... no need to comment on the disaster of thing .
Only way a GWF has trouble there holding agro on adds is only if your group does aoe dmg or you used slam at the wrong times(spec is not important at all). Imo GWF has it alot easier in that fight than a GF due to mobility.
Those who said we GWF can tank like GF or even better are idiots, yes, i can solo facetankheal and i can even be tankier than most GF but that doesnt mean i can do it better than the GF, until GWF given a real taunt skill or can generate more threat than any other class (cw,tr and now hunter), gf will always do a better job.
ex. scenario
If your teamates are low level, you can keep the adds, but the moment you lost one of them or got prone you will lose the threat and the adds will attack your teamates and since they are lowbie, some will die, Is that a good tank? NO. (yep you are a good tank, you kill the rest of the adds while your 4 teamates respawn on CF)
If your teamates are high level, you can't out generate their threat and what leaves you, you will be all over the place trying to get the adds of them while they run around avoiding it, you are following the adds who follows them. Is that a good tank? NO.
GF is mostly used by lowbie party.
GWF is mostly used by Highlevel party.
This is mine opinion while playing Sentinel GWF (Lifesteal)
I am one of the idiots... GWF has always been the better tank... High mobility and high dps/ attack rate make them more suited for curent pve and imo Unstoppable>Shield. Your problem is that u're playing a sentinel so u have no threat as your dmg is so low that u;re almost a dead hand in a grp. Go Destroyer pump up lifesteal for >1k and see how threat is going.
[QUOTE=ortzhy;6510631 Go Destroyer pump up lifesteal for >1k and see how threat is going.[/QUOTE]
You die in one shot when a trash mobs hits you. Say, a Thoon hulk in epic DV. 20k+ damage right in your face. Or, Bodyguard in Aberrant Assault skirmish ( that is an under-level-60 skirmish), 60k+ damage. Makes you feel you're Destroyed, not Destroyer
You die in one shot when a trash mobs hits you. Say, a Thoon hulk in epic DV. 20k+ damage right in your face. Or, Bodyguard in Aberrant Assault skirmish ( that is an under-level-60 skirmish), 60k+ damage. Makes you feel you're Destroyed, not Destroyer
What are your defense stats? cause there might be a problem with your build... I have 37% dmg resistance with 18% deflect 30k hp and 1k lifesteal, permanent Unstoppable with foresight and astral shield from DC i think it hits the maximum dmg resistance pretty easy.
GWF has Sprint & Unstoppable and soon will have Threatening Rush + Frontline. This will make the class PvP Gods.
Unfortunately i think nerf hammer will come so hard on GWF that will render them useless again They just cant balance this class. Now sent pvp specs will have Indomitable Strength for node defense.. and improved soulforge as well.
Senti - GWFs have more survival than GFs because of unstoppable currently.
Once you add Frontline & Threatening Rush to a GWF, they will be near perfection.
I really don't think you all understand how strong Threatening Rush will be on a GWF.
not is dose not dps gf is a lot harder to kill then dps gwf and senti wont be able to kill anyway tenes are nerfed all what this will change will be more dps gwf in pvp since they will be able to hunt down and prone lock till kill like gf can
Senti - GWFs have more survival than GFs because of unstoppable currently.
Once you add Frontline & Threatening Rush to a GWF, they will be near perfection.
I really don't think you all understand how strong Threatening Rush will be on a GWF.
I insisted on trying to continue as swordmaster because I know how things will end up if nothing is done about it .
We have three situations here:
1 - nerfs and buffs will be together now for the gf / gwf .
2 -Vanguard is very good for gwf
3 - swordmaster is irrelevant to the gf .
The trend , I believe, is that the gwf will " kill" the way iron vanguard and gf improve swordmaster . As the current changes to gwf by itself does not affect pvp ( bleed / reaping strike) the trend is that the path is restricted to iron tank , and swordmaster for dps .
In the end, it would be really nice , tell the way. Insist, with the brave nerfs data to cw - do not know whether to balance or encourages them to use the new path - the " defense " will be valued as much control / dps . The big problem would be if the devs try to create a balance between the two paths , mistreating classes itself ... but gwf currently is very cool ... hahaha . And the gf always had great potential restricted by the mechanics of the game .
Only clear advantage GWF will get from GF is the Feroucious Reaction passive which gonna work amazing on 40k Sent builds for its 25% heal and 3 minute cooldown.
Frontline surge is 3 target 1.7 second prone with really low dmg and 18sec cooldown and i ask some of the best GWF's about it and they would rather stick to what they have then use this 18 second skill.
Threatning Rush is a medium to short target charge with low dmg and slow animation.I really dont see how this is advantage for GWF since they got Sprint. The charge has a slow mechanic and even GF's avoid using it in every situation in PvP.Also the mark de-buff it apply is really unnoticable.
Indomitable Strenght is good prone and good dmg but GWF got Crescendo which is practicly same dmg and same cc time.
I really dont think GF gets advantage over GWF or the other way around.
Just this will produce a slightly bigger variaty.
Want to add that GF got a feat which provides extra bonus prone time to his prone skills so without this feet there is really no benefit for GWF's.
My choice as one of the veteran GF players will be to stay as i am and twerk my gears abit...
Do we play the same game sir?I would gladly take you on a tour of a dungeon of your choice, so you can see how a proper Guardian Fighter ( conqueror specced) should play.Because one of 2 options: You are either undergeared, or in desperate need of play better.
Sorry, i'm not interested in speaking how cool you think to be... I speak about GF problems: I have 16k gs and I think i'm able to play well, maybe i'm not really a pro, but play well. But the fact that i play well or not, and that you are god or not, doesn't mean that i wrote wrong things.
beleave me: GF is dying (i think so, so don't bother me, pls). It is:
-literally hated by devps (ok maybe it is a bit exaggerated, but only a bit^^)
-for any problem in the game their solution is: nerf GF (for example they just nerfed frontline surge due to GWF!!)
-it is full of bugs for months and no actions are taken to fix them (do you really want to say it is not true!?)
- it has excelent survival only if you sacrify everything else and deal very low damage (do you deal high damage with protector spec?)
- conqueror spec can deal medium (usrless in t2 dungeon) damage but loosing much survival (if you are a good tank and take aggro of everyone, you would have more survival expecially when cleric fail/die)
- is the most nerfed class (impossible to say that is not true)
- is the slowest class in movimet (doesn't have any power to avoid attacks or run out red areas) (!)
- is the slowest class in attack (powers have so slow animatios that you can die before the attack is done) GF has very slow animations: think about anvil of doom, or griffon wrath, or enforced threat. Last time i was tanking malabog and noticed that my teammates are in difficulty so i swapped to enforced threat (usually i don't use it in this boss fight) and pushed "E". AFTER the animation started, malabog started to hit me with his 3 hit sword attack... he hit me 2 times when i was in animations and i was forced to raise up shiled to avoid to die. Rusult: to block the third hit, my GF interrupted enf thr, but it was in cd, i didn't pull the mobs an took 2 hit from malabog. It is only an example to show how slow are GF animations.
- has the worse gear (many of his sets are garbage, example: stalwart, and also many of his purple "endgame" oblject)
- has a shield that last 1 second in any t2 dungeons, often dont respond to user input and dont block at all, dont block cc (is itn't true??)
- has many of its power bugged, many that dont proc enchants or talent (is itn't true??), many if not all in the devps "nerfing list" (wait and see...)
Execution can be blocked ... but GWF on unstoppable dies....
Block self regenerates while unstoppable needs dps to do so....
This. Shocking Execution ignores unstoppable, but barely takes a tick off the guard meter.
0
hdrcruzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
Imo, unstoppable + sprint > block + mark. Specially if you need to get out of multiple red zones stacked in the same place. Guard is obliterated while if you sprint/dodge nothing really happens.
- Determination does not regenerate through DPS but through damage taken (unless for DPS you mean the damage received). It increase by smal lamounts dealing damage only if you've the right feats (destroyer tree and steadfast determination slotted)
- Frontline surge may not be that good for PvP (long cooldown and requires double tap, hard to combine with takedown that has a much lower cooldown), but in PvE it deals much more damage than the other AoE skills and generates a lot of AP when used on Group of enemies. For example, on a Group of 4 enemies you can use frontline, then come and get it, then IBS to hit 3 of them together. Doing this, i usually can almsot fill my AP against normal mobs (since usually you kill at least a couple of them with the last IBS)
- Threatening rush is going to be incredible in PvP. Simple reason: with sprint you can chase the enemy, but CWs and expecially TRs are still able to kite you, even if you use bravery passive. Threatening rush is meant to be used in combo with sprint to close that small gap that CWs/ TRs create when they teleport/ roll once you reach them. You sprint, they dodge, you use threatening rush and you're again on them in a millisecond. You can save stamina and glue to them.
God mode? No. You still need to get them, and our encounter animations are slow. A good CW/ TR can wait for the animation to start and then dodge. Also: there's a small deleay between threatening animation end and the encounter, unless you cancel the animation with fast very small psrint. I would say that we will be able to avoid being kited, and TRs will not avoid us forever going from stealth to ITC to jump+dodge roll. The goal is to keep them pressured, make them waste their dodges, and then catch them.
GWFs will become the gods of gap closing, and if well played will probably be impossible to kite. This means that with sprint + threatening rush and sure strike, we can stop TRs from going stealth, slip away and throw daggers at us. Very useful when we will be facing Whisperknives. Also, we will be able to counter the 5 small dodges of Hunters, and close the gap faster to get less ranged damage.
GWFs will be complete, but i see these changes as a must have to face the other classes.
Swordmaster on GFs, i don't know. May be more damage with IBS. But more of all, steel grace and steely defense. A GF with steel grace gets a 30% reduction on cc effects. No joke. They are already very strong, and their weak point is probably the cc resistance.
Steely defense will probably be very useful in PvE.
Comments
anyways, nice doing two man team MC final boss dragon and Valendria, or wait, you TWO man team the Dragon and Valendria, or is it before when Valendria can be bug, if this is dragon only, even a DC can kill it. LOL.
I don't exploit sorry.... Nice try though. (This guy lol... I even said slam routine...)
Come up with the video, i found that claim to be exaggerated with the way AP being generated by GWF are trash, i doubt you can generate that much AP everytime she comes down. LOL.
1st off, I said I "duo'd" the last boss. 2 GWF's. Please learn to read, also, you CAN generate AP fast enough everytime she comes down with 2 GWF's.
You should know soloing is impossible because of her suppress anyways. I guess you obviously have NO idea what you're talking about LOL.
It's no exaggeration, let me tell you that.
If they can do it, I don't know why you can't.
Some people are just terrible GWF's that can only exploit. Needless to say, after seeing all the cwappy comments he made about his own class, you can safely assume he's just some lowbie that likes to trash talk on forums lololololol
Also that other GWF was Nelo, you should know that :P
On the topic: GF has the best que times in the game, even better then DC since there are very few of us left. The main job you are actually best in the game at is kiting (long range mark, and good enough defense to keep going without heals). At some point we used to be the top DPS, but with CW buffs and the removal of stal set we really are just mediocre at best now. No good gear options, and looking at the history we will continue to get nerfed as it always has been.
GWF is supposed to be the aoe dps-er of the game, but really the cw (getting even more dps with module 2) is just better at it while also providing way more control. GWF does have some utility for certain skip runs, but they are few and you need to know the dungeons very well to do them. Just as GF, the GWF will probably share the trend of nerfs rather then buffs so competeing against the pet project CW in aoe dps will probably be even harder in the future.
im a lowbie, your royal higness who two man team Dragon and Valendria, im not worthy, TROLOLOLOL.
Bytheway, when someones says two man team or duo, it should be from start to finish, not full party and the rest die and you continue fighting for short time to finish it. LOL
They all wiped before Valindra came down from lag. I don't see your point.
Since when I took reaping strike I had no more trouble threatening . Literally a world comes up on you .
Thinking about it , the guild asked me to tank in fh ( the official gf was looking for equipment for your cw ) . I did what I had to do the first boss in the second, instead of running after him , I was in the middle using punishing charge + slam ( the boss follows you ) in short , everything was going well .
In the last boss then came the problem : when I was told to stay running around the stage ... no need to comment on the disaster of thing .
Bottom line : our system of threat , like all others, is based on damage , with the difference that we have no feats reduction . In practice , how the gwf was created , it was not for him to resist / threat have to be tank , but because he is melee aoe . Simple as that . The fact serve as a second tank is a mere consequence .
The big problem is that it lacked a dialogue . For example , see the sentinel . He initially has its own system of threats , higher defense , our instinct is to think : " I will use the equipment that most favor the defensive aspect ." But in fact do this is to kill the threat of sentinel system which, as gwf is based on damage .
against the wizard (do not know the name) the damage was full, but 852/wms. we need to see the latest updates on them. but if some "adeptness" special armor or greater, that affects everyone, therefore, was not one nerf.
would be interesting to test an epic dd to be sure.
Only way a GWF has trouble there holding agro on adds is only if your group does aoe dmg or you used slam at the wrong times(spec is not important at all). Imo GWF has it alot easier in that fight than a GF due to mobility.
Gwfs will block? Using theit sword as a shield ? That would need a new animation. But ok, this sure will be cool.
I am one of the idiots... GWF has always been the better tank... High mobility and high dps/ attack rate make them more suited for curent pve and imo Unstoppable>Shield. Your problem is that u're playing a sentinel so u have no threat as your dmg is so low that u;re almost a dead hand in a grp. Go Destroyer pump up lifesteal for >1k and see how threat is going.
You die in one shot when a trash mobs hits you. Say, a Thoon hulk in epic DV. 20k+ damage right in your face. Or, Bodyguard in Aberrant Assault skirmish ( that is an under-level-60 skirmish), 60k+ damage. Makes you feel you're Destroyed, not Destroyer
GF = Good Def > Low Dps
GWF = Good Def > Medium Dps
Conf. DPS:
GF = Medium Def > Good Dps
GWF = Low Def > Good Dps
Teahup00, HR PVE
Unstoppable > Block
GWF has Sprint & Unstoppable and soon will have Threatening Rush + Frontline. This will make the class PvP Gods.
What are your defense stats? cause there might be a problem with your build... I have 37% dmg resistance with 18% deflect 30k hp and 1k lifesteal, permanent Unstoppable with foresight and astral shield from DC i think it hits the maximum dmg resistance pretty easy.
Unfortunately i think nerf hammer will come so hard on GWF that will render them useless again
they will be gods as gf are atm
Senti - GWFs have more survival than GFs because of unstoppable currently.
Once you add Frontline & Threatening Rush to a GWF, they will be near perfection.
I really don't think you all understand how strong Threatening Rush will be on a GWF.
not is dose not dps gf is a lot harder to kill then dps gwf and senti wont be able to kill anyway tenes are nerfed all what this will change will be more dps gwf in pvp since they will be able to hunt down and prone lock till kill like gf can
I insisted on trying to continue as swordmaster because I know how things will end up if nothing is done about it .
We have three situations here:
1 - nerfs and buffs will be together now for the gf / gwf .
2 -Vanguard is very good for gwf
3 - swordmaster is irrelevant to the gf .
The trend , I believe, is that the gwf will " kill" the way iron vanguard and gf improve swordmaster . As the current changes to gwf by itself does not affect pvp ( bleed / reaping strike) the trend is that the path is restricted to iron tank , and swordmaster for dps .
In the end, it would be really nice , tell the way. Insist, with the brave nerfs data to cw - do not know whether to balance or encourages them to use the new path - the " defense " will be valued as much control / dps . The big problem would be if the devs try to create a balance between the two paths , mistreating classes itself ... but gwf currently is very cool ... hahaha . And the gf always had great potential restricted by the mechanics of the game .
we'll see.
Frontline surge is 3 target 1.7 second prone with really low dmg and 18sec cooldown and i ask some of the best GWF's about it and they would rather stick to what they have then use this 18 second skill.
Threatning Rush is a medium to short target charge with low dmg and slow animation.I really dont see how this is advantage for GWF since they got Sprint. The charge has a slow mechanic and even GF's avoid using it in every situation in PvP.Also the mark de-buff it apply is really unnoticable.
Indomitable Strenght is good prone and good dmg but GWF got Crescendo which is practicly same dmg and same cc time.
I really dont think GF gets advantage over GWF or the other way around.
Just this will produce a slightly bigger variaty.
Want to add that GF got a feat which provides extra bonus prone time to his prone skills so without this feet there is really no benefit for GWF's.
My choice as one of the veteran GF players will be to stay as i am and twerk my gears abit...
Sorry, i'm not interested in speaking how cool you think to be... I speak about GF problems: I have 16k gs and I think i'm able to play well, maybe i'm not really a pro, but play well. But the fact that i play well or not, and that you are god or not, doesn't mean that i wrote wrong things.
don't worry, they already nerfed frontline surge and will nerf again GF to avoid that GWF will be god! Again an example of how bad is sharing path.
It is incredible... people can write any sort of stupid things.
Block > Unstoppable
U clearly dont kno what you are talking about.
Execution can be blocked ... but GWF on unstoppable dies....
Block self regenerates while unstoppable needs dps to do so....
Just state the pros and cons for each B & U.
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
PvE TR (salvaged)
GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/
This. Shocking Execution ignores unstoppable, but barely takes a tick off the guard meter.
- Determination does not regenerate through DPS but through damage taken (unless for DPS you mean the damage received). It increase by smal lamounts dealing damage only if you've the right feats (destroyer tree and steadfast determination slotted)
- Frontline surge may not be that good for PvP (long cooldown and requires double tap, hard to combine with takedown that has a much lower cooldown), but in PvE it deals much more damage than the other AoE skills and generates a lot of AP when used on Group of enemies. For example, on a Group of 4 enemies you can use frontline, then come and get it, then IBS to hit 3 of them together. Doing this, i usually can almsot fill my AP against normal mobs (since usually you kill at least a couple of them with the last IBS)
- Threatening rush is going to be incredible in PvP. Simple reason: with sprint you can chase the enemy, but CWs and expecially TRs are still able to kite you, even if you use bravery passive. Threatening rush is meant to be used in combo with sprint to close that small gap that CWs/ TRs create when they teleport/ roll once you reach them. You sprint, they dodge, you use threatening rush and you're again on them in a millisecond. You can save stamina and glue to them.
God mode? No. You still need to get them, and our encounter animations are slow. A good CW/ TR can wait for the animation to start and then dodge. Also: there's a small deleay between threatening animation end and the encounter, unless you cancel the animation with fast very small psrint. I would say that we will be able to avoid being kited, and TRs will not avoid us forever going from stealth to ITC to jump+dodge roll. The goal is to keep them pressured, make them waste their dodges, and then catch them.
GWFs will become the gods of gap closing, and if well played will probably be impossible to kite. This means that with sprint + threatening rush and sure strike, we can stop TRs from going stealth, slip away and throw daggers at us. Very useful when we will be facing Whisperknives. Also, we will be able to counter the 5 small dodges of Hunters, and close the gap faster to get less ranged damage.
GWFs will be complete, but i see these changes as a must have to face the other classes.
Swordmaster on GFs, i don't know. May be more damage with IBS. But more of all, steel grace and steely defense. A GF with steel grace gets a 30% reduction on cc effects. No joke. They are already very strong, and their weak point is probably the cc resistance.
Steely defense will probably be very useful in PvE.