I am very much against raids. Its a horrible idea that goes back to EQ1. It is not fun at all and becomes required. The only reason EQ1 and WoW survived those bad design decisions was because EQ1 had no competition (until WoW) and WoW was simply the 1st casual MMO on the market. Once they had the users people didnt want to leave. Those types of games however would never work in todays market with a new MMO hitting the market every month because it is antithetical to why people even play these games. Its all about gear. Its not like you play an MMO for the story... lol. The more work it is, the less fun it becomes. PUG raids might be fun but can they maintain enough users to make them viable? I am not sure.
I am all for the other suggestions.
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I am very much against raids. Its a horrible idea that goes back to EQ1. It is not fun at all and becomes required. The only reason EQ1 and WoW survived those bad design decisions was because EQ1 had no competition (until WoW) and WoW was simply the 1st casual MMO on the market. Once they had the users people didnt want to leave. Those types of games however would never work in todays market with a new MMO hitting the market every month because it is antithetical to why people even play these games. Its all about gear. Its not like you play an MMO for the story... lol. The more work it is, the less fun it becomes. PUG raids might be fun but can they maintain enough users to make them viable? I am not sure.
I am all for the other suggestions.
This post is full of...
Nobody forces you to raid, you can herd chickens or play foundries or do whatever you like. Some good lore-based raids might actually save this game and give something to do to its large level 60 player base.
I disagree that people don't play MMOs for the lore. I think it depends on the game, and this has a lot of lore to work with. I know I play with an eye on the lore and how they use it to drive the game forward, but maybe I am the only one. As for Raids, I have no use for them here. This would be just another distraction for the Devs, when the core of the game still needs work.
They need to fix a lot of stuff before working on raids. I like some of their mechanics. I've just played Gauntlgrym for the first time today and I thought that the PVE part was really cool. The PvP is a horse race and that's bad design, they need to rework the PvP map, having it as a circle doesnt work. We all know the main objective is capping bases and we all know that even tho objectives are our priority, we dont gear ourselves out in order to cap bases. We gear ourselves to beat other players.
Anyway, that's just one point. I feel that a lvl 60 player has a lot of content to do at the start, but yeah, after you do all the Sharandar campaign it probably gets critical, but Module 2 is coming and you can always level an alt. Maybe adding a tough boss to the PvE part of Gauntlgrym could be a good idea, since the whole area is a huge PUG without queue. You just enter the area and do your stuff.
tl;dr: Sidegrades good, upgrades bad. Diversity good, power creep bad.
I feel that there shouldn't be tier 3 gear for a long, long time, and even then, it has to be introduced to the game with caution. Continuous power creep (increasing power levels throughout the life of a game) has ruined a lot of games by enlarging the gap between the haves and the have-nots.
What I'd like to see, however, are more tier 1 and tier 2 items and handful of tier 2.5 items, which would be limited to main hand and off hand items. Basically, Neverwinter should go the route that Team Fortress 2 has taken and give us sidegrades instead of straight upgrades. There shouldn't be a clear choice when it comes to gearing your character; there should be multiple valid gearing options instead of the handful that we have right now.
Power Creep pretty much destroys the progression of all MMOs. My opinion is that there should never be a Tier 3. There have been documentaries written about the subject of power creep. Unchecked power creep causes so many problems.
There is too huge a difference already in gear scores between the haves and have nots. Overall this game has become a straight up Skinner box. The thing is when the player realizes they are in the Skinner box the game no longer becomes fun. That is because chasing raw power is no fun at all. We need side grades and incomparable upgrades. Think of it like this would Drizzt ever throw away Twinkle and Icingdeath? Certainly Not. The thing is why are we as players constantly asked to throw away our signature weapons and armor. Our weapons define our characters so when we throw those away we lose part of what attached us to the game in the first place.
I am really hoping you have some raiding / 10man / 15man /20 man partys and dungeons for us in the future?
It would be amazing.
* Bosses that require actually skill and tactics to kill
* Loot-tables that told you exactly what would drop from what boss, so that the tries and wipes wont be for nothing (implying there will be a fight that requires actual tactics)
* Not having everyone running arround in the same gear, because today everyone can clear the dungeons / buy things and walk arround looking the same.
Will there be anything like raiding in the future?
I wont say guilds are pointless with 5 man dungeons, but they would make alot more sense if we had actually raids. I know alot of people in good guild, that are mostly doing dungeons with the people from their friends list, me included. Well not so much dungeons anymore becuase whats the point. But anyways, it would make beeing is a guild less meaningless.
It would create a race between the best guilds in Neverwinter to compete in progression. The only way guilds can compete now, is PvP, still 5 man. Men are competitive creatures. If they have nothing to strive for, no way to show that they are the best, it will eventually be too boring.
Ideas in summary:
- Need instances with more than 4 bosses. Instances you cant clear the same day they get released.
- Need pvp ladder, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5. Etc
Thoughts?
0
pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I am really hoping you have some raiding / 10man / 15man /20 man partys and dungeons for us in the future?
It would be amazing.
* Bosses that require actually skill and tactics to kill
* Loot-tables that told you exactly what would drop from what boss, so that the tries and wipes wont be for nothing (implying there will be a fight that requires actual tactics)
* Not having everyone running arround in the same gear, because today everyone can clear the dungeons / buy things and walk arround looking the same.
Will there be anything like raiding in the future?
I wont say guilds are pointless with 5 man dungeons, but they would make alot more sense if we had actually raids. I know alot of people in good guild, that are mostly doing dungeons with the people from their friends list, me included. Well not so much dungeons anymore becuase whats the point. But anyways, it would make beeing is a guild less meaningless.
It would create a race between the best guilds in Neverwinter to compete in progression. The only way guilds can compete now, is PvP, still 5 man. Men are competitive creatures. If they have nothing to strive for, no way to show that they are the best, it will eventually be too boring.
Ideas in summary:
- Need instances with more than 4 bosses. Instances you cant clear the same day they get released.
- Need pvp ladder, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5. Etc
They need to fix a lot of stuff before working on raids. I like some of their mechanics. I've just played Gauntlgrym for the first time today and I thought that the PVE part was really cool. The PvP is a horse race and that's bad design, they need to rework the PvP map, having it as a circle doesnt work. We all know the main objective is capping bases and we all know that even tho objectives are our priority, we dont gear ourselves out in order to cap bases. We gear ourselves to beat other players.
Anyway, that's just one point. I feel that a lvl 60 player has a lot of content to do at the start, but yeah, after you do all the Sharandar campaign it probably gets critical, but Module 2 is coming and you can always level an alt. Maybe adding a tough boss to the PvE part of Gauntlgrym could be a good idea, since the whole area is a huge PUG without queue. You just enter the area and do your stuff.
Well im not gonna say your opinion doesnt matter, but I just want to point out that GG has been out for a LONG time now and you JUST played your first one....
Thats a BIG difference between those of us who have been here since OB and that have been playing the same content over and over and over. Sure for a NEW players its something new and cool, but some of us have played it hundreds of times already....
I have 5 60s because of that exactly, it gets boring at 60....
There are ALOT of issues but having 10 man parties would be a huge step in the right direction.
I also really like the idea of avoiding power creep however with the current level of dim returns and how horrible the power stat is, the power creep isnt much of an issue in my opinion in this game. I mean adding +20 to each stat on gear for a T3 set really wont change anything at all....
Legendaries, well they dont always have to be "better" just "different" and unique. Like pros and cons.... So its more options rather than just pure stats.
"Ideas in summary:
- Need instances with more than 4 bosses. Instances you cant clear the same day they get released.
- Need pvp ladder, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5. Etc
Well im not gonna say your opinion doesnt matter, but... snip.
i've been playing neverwinter since the end of april and i'm still not bored with it. but even if i had just started playing yesterday, my opinion and feedback is just as important as yours. fact is, this is a f2p MMORPG and a darn good one at that. there will be players that come here, blow through the content and get bored. there will be players that are bored within five minutes of play. and there are players that will be here for years to come. all of these people's feedback is equally as important.
it's pretty cool in today's gaming market that developers have access to such feedback. it definitely is a valuable tool. of course not every suggestion can necessarily become a reality as there are many unknown facets to developer decisions. but as we saw last week where the AD cost was removed from the upcoming refining system, we know they're listening.
i've been playing neverwinter since the end of april and i'm still not bored with it. but even if i had just started playing yesterday, my opinion and feedback is just as important as yours. fact is, this is a f2p MMORPG and a darn good one at that. there will be players that come here, blow through the content and get bored. there will be players that are bored within five minutes of play. and there are players that will be here for years to come. all of these people's feedback is equally as important.
it's pretty cool in today's gaming market that developers have access to such feedback. it definitely is a valuable tool. of course not every suggestion can necessarily become a reality as there are many unknown facets to developer decisions. but as we saw last week where the AD cost was removed from the upcoming refining system, we know they're listening.
The issue isnt that its 1 perspective over another but let me summarize and push it to the extreme.
Player A: Has played for 7-8 months, has done all the content many many times, and is asking for additional options of doing both the same content and new content to be released.
Player B: Played for 1 month, just hit 60 and is overwhelmed by the amount of content available and things to do like boon farming and T1 THEN T2 farming and GG ontop of all that, and now looking at new boons and new PVE content as well who therefore says NOT to add more options like the ability to 10 man current dungeons and NOT to add more content because he is not bored with everything yet and thinks that would just add...
Do you see the difference, not saying your player B but the fact that you JUST did GG for the first time and are then saying " a lvl 60 player has a lot of content to do at the start" and it seems to follow you use that as a basis for having them NOT introduce raiding and even offer the alternative of "you can level an alt" to me, says that you are not that plugged into the mainstream of players who have been around since April or maybe you are just the most casual player ive met before.
There are SO many possibilities out there in re-working and re-using the existing content, like adding a "monster power" type ability here where the most players you add the dungeon and loot tables just scale based on group number. Its unreal how much thatwould add.
i've been playing neverwinter since the end of april and i'm still not bored with it. but even if i had just started playing yesterday, my opinion and feedback is just as important as yours. fact is, this is a f2p MMORPG and a darn good one at that. there will be players that come here, blow through the content and get bored. there will be players that are bored within five minutes of play. and there are players that will be here for years to come. all of these people's feedback is equally as important.
it's pretty cool in today's gaming market that developers have access to such feedback. it definitely is a valuable tool. of course not every suggestion can necessarily become a reality as there are many unknown facets to developer decisions. but as we saw last week where the AD cost was removed from the upcoming refining system, we know they're listening.
I agree and disagree. Highly disagree in fact...
Yes, there are all kinds of players. That doesn't excuse a lot of the decisions and corner cutting that happened in Neverwinter.
As for the "we know they are listening" you're falling straight for the "jumping to conclusions" fallacy there. Until they state the reason why they changed it in pre-release you can't make that claim.
Also, unknown facets... sounds strangely like "lack of transparency" something which is known to cause friction between developers and their fanbase. Since when did that become a good thing?
If something isn't possible, explaining it to folks in terms of the "why" always goes a long way to bridging the gaps. Refusing to do that often leads to decisions that many tend to scoff at. Because idea's may seem great in design perspectives in terms of "on paper" or "in business terms" but then in reality are outright REJECTED by the playerbase causing yet more players to turn their backs on the game and/or companies involved.
The argument that some folks will stay is valid, but more often than not can be easily used as an "there's a sucker born every minute" argument/jibe. I see very little in terms of solid defense of this game at all on these forums.
I agree with most of the OP's points and would add two things:
1. Make finding a regular party to do dungeons/pvp/skirmishes with, much easier. That really could be done through the forums. Yes find a guild, I know. The problem is that nwo like other mmos has a ton of guilds with hundreds of people each that are really just social guilds for friendly, non-hostile banter while playing the game.
2. Get past level 60. I know, we still need new classes and x,y,z, and so on, but being able to continue to level gives players a reason to grind it out other than just gear farming. When you have 10 new levels (and the feats and powers and yet even better more epic gear) to get through, suddenly you are not skipping on killing adds or glitching bosses because you are looking for every xp you can get.
I think nwo is actually ahead of the curve in terms of how much content they put out, but the game is quickly heading towards being "end game heavy", as in too much of the content is at the very last level. So everyone just kind of pours in there like a river coming to a lake, and they kind of just stew around and gather there and complain.
Keep it moving, all kinds of nasty stuff breeds in still water.
Well, the items with better stats should be for the most hardcore players, that's for sure, if you don't plan on being a hardcore player in a hardcore guild, then why care about having the better items at all? :S
Why is it that hardcore always has to equate with wanting high end items, and being casual means you shouldn't care about getting 'leet loot? There is no reason that a "casual" player should not, or would not, care about being able to collect fun and interesting items in game - including high end items. There are many different versions of a "casual" player as there are for a "hardcore" player. There are also many different reasons why someone may be a "casual" player or a "hardcore" player. Just because someone may be a "casual" player doesn't mean they should be precluded from being able to obtain whatever gear that they may want - an RPG after all, is about being able to customize your character for your own enjoyment of the game.
"The ability to LeetSpeak does not make one intelligent." "Ask a stupid question and the Morons will answer." "The True measure of a gamer is the ability to ignore epeen and just enjoy a game" -- Hanok Odbrook
Why is it that hardcore always has to equate with wanting high end items, and being casual means you shouldn't care about getting 'leet loot? There is no reason that a "casual" player should not, or would not, care about being able to collect fun and interesting items in game - including high end items. There are many different versions of a "casual" player as there are for a "hardcore" player. There are also many different reasons why someone may be a "casual" player or a "hardcore" player. Just because someone may be a "casual" player doesn't mean they should be precluded from being able to obtain whatever gear that they may want - an RPG after all, is about being able to customize your character for your own enjoyment of the game.
Define "hardcore"
Also, what sort of adventure is getting your wallet out and buying a sword from another dude that got it playing the game?
One has to remember as well, difficulty has to match reward, and a prime example of it going horribly awry was the end of cata implementation of looking for raid.
The gear was MARGINALLY inferior to normal 10 man raid gear to the point where there was little to no POINT in putting the effort into the normal 10 man if you were feeling even the slightest bit lazy, inferred set bonuses and set bonuses that worked with existing 10 man gear. And so all it did was replace normal 10 man raiding for most, albeit at a HILARIOUSLY lower skill cap.
"why can't I have the gear if i'm a casual player"
Nothing is stopping you from getting an item as a casual except time input and effort. That is provided of course the game isn't filled with paid shortcuts etc. No so called hardcore player should want to stop you getting anything in this game those aren't hardcore players, those are immature players.
That however does NOT mean that design of MMO's should change so as to remove all challenge from their higher tiers of dungeon etc, JUST so that you can ignore game mechanics and the actual GAME in the Video Game experience. Think about how many people were given simple tasks in heroic dungeons in WOW only to seemingly flat out refuse to learn the simple mechanics of the fights... if you don't like learning how to overcome obstacles... maybe just maybe this isn't the right GENRE for you.
For me it's always been simple, if you want that tanking sword of epic sexy pawnage, you get on your tank, you go to the dungeon with a group... and you do the fudging dungeon. If it drops, congrats. If it doesn't well do it again then... If you can't do the dungeon, you try harder until you are good enough to do it, level up or you analyze your team's performance and see if you can improve on what you're doing and change it up. Overcoming adversity etc.
If you REFUSE to put that effort in, under the guise of "I'm not a tryhard, I'm only casual" then you're approaching the whole situation WRONG.
And no, I wasn't accusing you of being anything or labeling your personally btw. So please don't take offense
Comments
I am all for the other suggestions.
This post is full of...
Nobody forces you to raid, you can herd chickens or play foundries or do whatever you like. Some good lore-based raids might actually save this game and give something to do to its large level 60 player base.
Anyway, that's just one point. I feel that a lvl 60 player has a lot of content to do at the start, but yeah, after you do all the Sharandar campaign it probably gets critical, but Module 2 is coming and you can always level an alt. Maybe adding a tough boss to the PvE part of Gauntlgrym could be a good idea, since the whole area is a huge PUG without queue. You just enter the area and do your stuff.
Power Creep pretty much destroys the progression of all MMOs. My opinion is that there should never be a Tier 3. There have been documentaries written about the subject of power creep. Unchecked power creep causes so many problems.
There is too huge a difference already in gear scores between the haves and have nots. Overall this game has become a straight up Skinner box. The thing is when the player realizes they are in the Skinner box the game no longer becomes fun. That is because chasing raw power is no fun at all. We need side grades and incomparable upgrades. Think of it like this would Drizzt ever throw away Twinkle and Icingdeath? Certainly Not. The thing is why are we as players constantly asked to throw away our signature weapons and armor. Our weapons define our characters so when we throw those away we lose part of what attached us to the game in the first place.
Sequel: The Return to Sloping Street NW-DACVPHGHW
Part 3: The Merchant's Tower NW-DC3LB6TZ9
I am really hoping you have some raiding / 10man / 15man /20 man partys and dungeons for us in the future?
It would be amazing.
* Bosses that require actually skill and tactics to kill
* Loot-tables that told you exactly what would drop from what boss, so that the tries and wipes wont be for nothing (implying there will be a fight that requires actual tactics)
* Not having everyone running arround in the same gear, because today everyone can clear the dungeons / buy things and walk arround looking the same.
Will there be anything like raiding in the future?
I wont say guilds are pointless with 5 man dungeons, but they would make alot more sense if we had actually raids. I know alot of people in good guild, that are mostly doing dungeons with the people from their friends list, me included. Well not so much dungeons anymore becuase whats the point. But anyways, it would make beeing is a guild less meaningless.
It would create a race between the best guilds in Neverwinter to compete in progression. The only way guilds can compete now, is PvP, still 5 man. Men are competitive creatures. If they have nothing to strive for, no way to show that they are the best, it will eventually be too boring.
Ideas in summary:
- Need instances with more than 4 bosses. Instances you cant clear the same day they get released.
- Need pvp ladder, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5. Etc
Thoughts?
Very good ideas, all of them, +1.
Well im not gonna say your opinion doesnt matter, but I just want to point out that GG has been out for a LONG time now and you JUST played your first one....
Thats a BIG difference between those of us who have been here since OB and that have been playing the same content over and over and over. Sure for a NEW players its something new and cool, but some of us have played it hundreds of times already....
I have 5 60s because of that exactly, it gets boring at 60....
There are ALOT of issues but having 10 man parties would be a huge step in the right direction.
I also really like the idea of avoiding power creep however with the current level of dim returns and how horrible the power stat is, the power creep isnt much of an issue in my opinion in this game. I mean adding +20 to each stat on gear for a T3 set really wont change anything at all....
Legendaries, well they dont always have to be "better" just "different" and unique. Like pros and cons.... So its more options rather than just pure stats.
"Ideas in summary:
- Need instances with more than 4 bosses. Instances you cant clear the same day they get released.
- Need pvp ladder, 2v2, 3v3, 5v5. Etc
Thoughts?"
Those are very good points my friend.
i've been playing neverwinter since the end of april and i'm still not bored with it. but even if i had just started playing yesterday, my opinion and feedback is just as important as yours. fact is, this is a f2p MMORPG and a darn good one at that. there will be players that come here, blow through the content and get bored. there will be players that are bored within five minutes of play. and there are players that will be here for years to come. all of these people's feedback is equally as important.
it's pretty cool in today's gaming market that developers have access to such feedback. it definitely is a valuable tool. of course not every suggestion can necessarily become a reality as there are many unknown facets to developer decisions. but as we saw last week where the AD cost was removed from the upcoming refining system, we know they're listening.
...So much people would of stayed and re-think the option of quiting ...
The issue isnt that its 1 perspective over another but let me summarize and push it to the extreme.
Player A: Has played for 7-8 months, has done all the content many many times, and is asking for additional options of doing both the same content and new content to be released.
Player B: Played for 1 month, just hit 60 and is overwhelmed by the amount of content available and things to do like boon farming and T1 THEN T2 farming and GG ontop of all that, and now looking at new boons and new PVE content as well who therefore says NOT to add more options like the ability to 10 man current dungeons and NOT to add more content because he is not bored with everything yet and thinks that would just add...
Do you see the difference, not saying your player B but the fact that you JUST did GG for the first time and are then saying " a lvl 60 player has a lot of content to do at the start" and it seems to follow you use that as a basis for having them NOT introduce raiding and even offer the alternative of "you can level an alt" to me, says that you are not that plugged into the mainstream of players who have been around since April or maybe you are just the most casual player ive met before.
There are SO many possibilities out there in re-working and re-using the existing content, like adding a "monster power" type ability here where the most players you add the dungeon and loot tables just scale based on group number. Its unreal how much thatwould add.
I agree and disagree. Highly disagree in fact...
Yes, there are all kinds of players. That doesn't excuse a lot of the decisions and corner cutting that happened in Neverwinter.
As for the "we know they are listening" you're falling straight for the "jumping to conclusions" fallacy there. Until they state the reason why they changed it in pre-release you can't make that claim.
Also, unknown facets... sounds strangely like "lack of transparency" something which is known to cause friction between developers and their fanbase. Since when did that become a good thing?
If something isn't possible, explaining it to folks in terms of the "why" always goes a long way to bridging the gaps. Refusing to do that often leads to decisions that many tend to scoff at. Because idea's may seem great in design perspectives in terms of "on paper" or "in business terms" but then in reality are outright REJECTED by the playerbase causing yet more players to turn their backs on the game and/or companies involved.
The argument that some folks will stay is valid, but more often than not can be easily used as an "there's a sucker born every minute" argument/jibe. I see very little in terms of solid defense of this game at all on these forums.
It's disappointing.
1. Make finding a regular party to do dungeons/pvp/skirmishes with, much easier. That really could be done through the forums. Yes find a guild, I know. The problem is that nwo like other mmos has a ton of guilds with hundreds of people each that are really just social guilds for friendly, non-hostile banter while playing the game.
2. Get past level 60. I know, we still need new classes and x,y,z, and so on, but being able to continue to level gives players a reason to grind it out other than just gear farming. When you have 10 new levels (and the feats and powers and yet even better more epic gear) to get through, suddenly you are not skipping on killing adds or glitching bosses because you are looking for every xp you can get.
I think nwo is actually ahead of the curve in terms of how much content they put out, but the game is quickly heading towards being "end game heavy", as in too much of the content is at the very last level. So everyone just kind of pours in there like a river coming to a lake, and they kind of just stew around and gather there and complain.
Keep it moving, all kinds of nasty stuff breeds in still water.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Why is it that hardcore always has to equate with wanting high end items, and being casual means you shouldn't care about getting 'leet loot? There is no reason that a "casual" player should not, or would not, care about being able to collect fun and interesting items in game - including high end items. There are many different versions of a "casual" player as there are for a "hardcore" player. There are also many different reasons why someone may be a "casual" player or a "hardcore" player. Just because someone may be a "casual" player doesn't mean they should be precluded from being able to obtain whatever gear that they may want - an RPG after all, is about being able to customize your character for your own enjoyment of the game.
"Ask a stupid question and the Morons will answer."
"The True measure of a gamer is the ability to ignore epeen and just enjoy a game" -- Hanok Odbrook
Define "hardcore"
Also, what sort of adventure is getting your wallet out and buying a sword from another dude that got it playing the game?
One has to remember as well, difficulty has to match reward, and a prime example of it going horribly awry was the end of cata implementation of looking for raid.
The gear was MARGINALLY inferior to normal 10 man raid gear to the point where there was little to no POINT in putting the effort into the normal 10 man if you were feeling even the slightest bit lazy, inferred set bonuses and set bonuses that worked with existing 10 man gear. And so all it did was replace normal 10 man raiding for most, albeit at a HILARIOUSLY lower skill cap.
"why can't I have the gear if i'm a casual player"
Nothing is stopping you from getting an item as a casual except time input and effort. That is provided of course the game isn't filled with paid shortcuts etc. No so called hardcore player should want to stop you getting anything in this game those aren't hardcore players, those are immature players.
That however does NOT mean that design of MMO's should change so as to remove all challenge from their higher tiers of dungeon etc, JUST so that you can ignore game mechanics and the actual GAME in the Video Game experience. Think about how many people were given simple tasks in heroic dungeons in WOW only to seemingly flat out refuse to learn the simple mechanics of the fights... if you don't like learning how to overcome obstacles... maybe just maybe this isn't the right GENRE for you.
For me it's always been simple, if you want that tanking sword of epic sexy pawnage, you get on your tank, you go to the dungeon with a group... and you do the fudging dungeon. If it drops, congrats. If it doesn't well do it again then... If you can't do the dungeon, you try harder until you are good enough to do it, level up or you analyze your team's performance and see if you can improve on what you're doing and change it up. Overcoming adversity etc.
If you REFUSE to put that effort in, under the guise of "I'm not a tryhard, I'm only casual" then you're approaching the whole situation WRONG.
And no, I wasn't accusing you of being anything or labeling your personally btw. So please don't take offense