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How many TRs will actually use the new paragon path??
corpsemaker86
Member Posts: 148 Bounty Hunter
Its seriously so bad that I think they should just scrap the whole thing altogether. I cant imagine more than 1% of TRs using it
1) You lose the ability to solo bosses because of the loss of gloaming cut
2) Worse pve damage with the loss of a key class feature
3) Very weak in pvp
3a. You have to give up ANOTHER class feature that increases run speed by 15% as well as grants an additional 3% crit and deflect. The only way to play the new path effectively is as a stealthy TR. The problem is you must also give up impossible to catch which is essential. With the changes to soulforge TRs have no outs.... get caught out of stealth with this new paragon??.....dead
No impossible to catch and too slow to kite enemies from range.
Not to mention the new daily is far inferior to shocking execution.
The whole concept of this was to fight from range but your too slow to actually kite anyone from a distance. It might have been somewhat effective but the new lantern of revelation artifact negates this entirely.
I have many things to add to this.... many other things to say but the new paragon is just so terrible that I don't even know where to begin. The feedback I've been reading has been exactly the same
Given all this, will you actually play with this new paragon permanently??
1) You lose the ability to solo bosses because of the loss of gloaming cut
2) Worse pve damage with the loss of a key class feature
3) Very weak in pvp
3a. You have to give up ANOTHER class feature that increases run speed by 15% as well as grants an additional 3% crit and deflect. The only way to play the new path effectively is as a stealthy TR. The problem is you must also give up impossible to catch which is essential. With the changes to soulforge TRs have no outs.... get caught out of stealth with this new paragon??.....dead
No impossible to catch and too slow to kite enemies from range.
Not to mention the new daily is far inferior to shocking execution.
The whole concept of this was to fight from range but your too slow to actually kite anyone from a distance. It might have been somewhat effective but the new lantern of revelation artifact negates this entirely.
I have many things to add to this.... many other things to say but the new paragon is just so terrible that I don't even know where to begin. The feedback I've been reading has been exactly the same
Given all this, will you actually play with this new paragon permanently??
Post edited by corpsemaker86 on
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But I won't be giving up my itc, especially due to the changes to soulforged.
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
Won't sacrifice Impossible to catch, Skillful Infiltrator and Shocking Execution for those for sure.
God, Shocking Execution is the only thing that lets me to kill those abominatious GWF Sentinels in PvP and throwing it away for me is just very stupid. Though...nope it's utterly stupid.
New rogue's paragon path doesn't worth it at the moment.
WTB Class Reroll please
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
You're just sticking around and trying to kill some squishy mages if there are any...
Also all INT perma stealth based rogues I've seen so far had Impossible to catch on their encounters list. Makes them less invulnerable and maybe ruins the point of the build at all. We will see, that was just my humble opinion.
WTB Class Reroll please
Seeing how this is a Monkey See, Monkey do crowd.... I won't bother pointing out the killer aspect of it. People will just see what it can do in PvP and go run and try to copy it anyway.
Your damage will be confined to at-wills. in order to stay perma you must use 2 encounters that don't add dps. To make things worse, the new at will is a d.o.t and devs are handing out regen like crazy. Lets see how useful your D.O.T is when every tank around gets back 3k health per tick...I mean it has it's advantages but you want instant damage not over time. also, if another perma finds you with the lantern and hits you with d.o.t at-will you wont be able to re-enter stealth effectively
The difference is before permas were able to surive briefly out of stealth and be fine. With this as soon as stealth ends your dead. How can you kill a GWF this way?? he will survive your little dot and as soon as the next stealth encounter gets put on long cooldown your done.
Not enough damage to kill those high survivability DCs and burst has always been the best way to kill CWs.
Your entire role with this new pvp spec is to hold nodes but you will be less effective in doing so compared to current paragon permas with the higher survivability and speed.
Remember, you can only have 2 at-wills at once. so if you want to have any relevance at all in melee then you must ditch one of the ranged attacks. dagger throw will be gone which represents whatever burst you have left as a perma. you will be confined to your DOT but everyone will be running around with high regen to negate this effect.
Burst, Survivability, and Movement are king in pvp. Those who are able to maximize the 3 do the best. This new paragon sacrifices all of it
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I am just waiting for the "Nerf the new TR paragon" threads when this comes out.
Disheartening Strike is pretty OP, if you crit with it from the stealth, it will deal like 15k damage.
They have been complaining about perma-stealth rogues for months, calling it a "neeeb coward thing" while pursuing you 5vs1 when your entire team just left. So oh well, nothing would surpise me.
WTB Class Reroll please
no more gloaming cut. that means no more perma stealth.
In fact, the whole concept of perma stealth is gloaming cut. the two are synonymous. gloaming cut is what allows TRs to stay in stealth and never have to leave because of the feat that refills the stealth bar when using it.
Ever have those annoying TRs in your guild who ask for ppl to join and then leave so that they can enter a dungeon? Its because they are solo'ing bosses and making good AD. For instance a perma can easily solo the first boss in CN. then sell the ring on the ah. With this spec unless they have something like 4k+ recovery & human race with the 20% increased stealth bar + battlefield skulker 4piece set bonus they are not going to be able to this this stuff anymore
For this new paragon you must give up the best pvp daily, the best pvp class feature, the best pvp encounter, and also unlimited stealth
What you get in return is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Terrible class features and a horrible Daily. The value here is a very slow AOE at-will that will be negated by all the new Regen Artifacts and Boons the devs are throwing into the game and... thats it. the new encounter isn't good enough to be a #1 option. Shadow strike + bait and switch will be automatic with this paragon meaning you only have 1 encounter to choose from. New encounter isn't as good as attacks like lashing blade, or things that give TRs another way to escape and distance themselves such as smoke bomb.
Really, you get a new at-will with this and give up the world to get it
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
Expect to see me on my TR up until a shar worshipping necromancer is released.
EDIT* Might lose against some GF too, but that would be because of the regen builds.
tanks are hard fights for TRs and it only gets worse with this new paragon. Its worse against DCs as well and nothing beats the old executioner build lashing plus ItC for killing CWs
New at-will + CoS means no melee relevance. I don't even know how you can add impact shot to the encounter list...we arnt CWs that get 4 encounters. Your build wont work with potb unless you forget about perma all together, ditch bait and switch and add a melee encounter. problem is your too slow and lacking ItC so non stealth versions are out of the question.
This is a complete troll spec and that's it. It will be fun to troll ppl with it but if you cant kill them and get caught out of stealth your dead in a few seconds
Funny, I don't recall me saying ANYTHING about permastealth. I don't run perma on my rogue right now, and I do just fine with shadow strike, potb, and impact. You just have to know how to use the class without itc to deal with it. All I know is that my dueling potential will go through the roof with the new paragons.
You lose 15% run speed, 3% crit, and 3% deflect
Do you think that's reasonable for an out of stealth TR without ItC ?
I don't run the paragon in pvp most of the time anyways, so yeah sure. Stealth refill after dailies > 3% crit and deflect, maybe not the extra run speed, but I usually use dailies as my stealth runs out, so it's worth it for me.
...and that clearly shows how broken and op TRs are at the moment...
you have to give up shocking as well. and lets face it, that's the best daily we have in pvp
and now your the slowest on the battlefield. quit acting like all you give up is ItC
The thing is, you AREN'T the slowest on the battlefield, because everybody has the same base movement speed. The only thing that makes you faster or slower is movement bonuses, which as of right now, only come from dark enchants, feats, and passive powers. You are the SAME speed as everybody else.
But I dont complain about that, and expect people not to use it. I personally dont use shocking execution at all.
Where as I do use Impossible to catch on one of my rogues, the other I do not.
And how does shocking Execution and Impossible to catch have ANYTHING to do with movements speed?
He means skillful infiltrator feature, which gives 15% movement speed, 3% deflection, and 3% critical chance.
Anyway, the biggest problem of the new paragon path is lack of cc breaker/immunity which makes rogues extremely squishy out of stealth.
The thing is, rogues ARE NOT all that squishy if built correctly. The only thing you lose from the new path is 3% deflect, which is almost nothing. I've seen rogues with upwards of 40% deflect and 30k health. Pair this with rogues having the highest deflect severity (75%, 25% is a graphical bug), and you are actually fairly durable. Sure you are likely to be cc chained, but you are no less or more likely than any other class to get chain cced.
Yes, totally! I will play. You're missing one rather unheard of build of the trickster rogue where the cornerstone abilities are range and regeneration. This is the kind of rogue that most people, even groups, cannot kill in PvP. The kind of rogue that most dungeon bosses cannot instakill, and at the same time kite a great number of adds indefinitely. This is by far not a permastealth TR.
Since I've been running a ranged-regen build, there's no better abilities for me--the DoT part of Disheartening Strike can deal pretty serious DPS. I rather like the new daily power. Of the class features, the 20' dagger buffs could be potentially hazardous for anyone who tries to hunt you down. Even losing 15% run speed some crit and deflect is balanced pretty well by the added range. I do think the gap closer is counter productive for an encounter, and losing ItC will definitely impact my rotation.
Still, though, it's my build. I'm happy to have a full paragon to it.