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CW receive no benefit from Armor Penetration for 40%+ Powers.
fondlez
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
All indications so far are that an investment in Armor Penetration/Resistance Ignored will, in general, no longer be a waste in PvE.
UPDATE 2013-12-10
As of Live version NW.10.20131120a.15, the remaining Powers DO NOT benefit from Armor Penetration,
Magic Missle - extra 2 strikes on 3rd Missile
Conduit of Ice
Entangling Force
Repel - on normal (benefits on Spell Mastery)
Sudden Storm - the DoT portion on Spell Mastery [thanks, blazeblacky]
Storm Fury
Storm Pillar - chains
Ray of Enfeeblement
Ice Knife
Shard of the Endless Avalance - some "Shard Slam" hits in normal slots (benefits on Spell Mastery)
Scorching Burst [thanks, blazeblacky]
Fanning the Flame [thanks, blazeblacky]
Smoulder [thanks, blazeblacky]
Rimfire [thanks, blazeblacky]
The following newly tested Power DOES benefit from Armor Penetration:
Elemental Empowerment [thanks, blazeblacky]
All other CW Powers DO benefit from Armor Penetration.
UPDATE 2013-12-08
The post below refers to pre-Module 2 circumstances. Further testing will be required now that Shadowmantle has hit Live.
=====
POSTED 2013-11-01
Thought I would do some testing of Armor Penetration stat today on Live based on what has been reported by a person in Preview. I thought I would only find a few anomalies with CW Powers. Instead this is what I found (and its reportedly much worse than even on Preview):
YES. Benefit from Armor Penetration:
Ray of Frost
Chill Strike
Ice Storm
Shield Pulse
Storm Spell
Icy Rays
Steal Time
Maelstrom of Chaos
NO. Partly or wholly do not benefit from Armor Penetration:
Magic Missle - extra 2 strikes on 3rd Missile
Conduit of Ice
Entangling Force
Arcane Singularity
Oppressive Force
Repel
Icy Terrain
Sudden Storm
Storm Pillar - chains
Ray of Enfeeblement
Ice Knife
Shard (including Slam and Shardplosion)
So, proportionately, no benefit from:
At-Wills: 2/4 = 50% (*)
Dailies: 2/4 = 50%
Encounters: 7/11 = 64%
Class Features: 0/2 = 0% (*)
(*) UNKNOWN
Chilling Cloud
Storm Fury
Average: 55% (excluding Class Features) or at least 40% (including Class Features).
Method used:
1. Equipped 24.5% ArP with no High Vizier 4-pc bonus or mitigation reduction feats.
2. Travelled to Mount Hotenow.
3. Selected individual Powers to use.
4. Attacked mobs with known Mitigation of 16%, i.e. Miners and Flamespikers.
5. Checked logs for the following type of entries:
[Combat (Self)] Your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> deals ZZZ Arcane to ... = Armor Penetration to 0% mitigation in effect.
[Combat (Self)] Your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> deals YYY (ZZZ) Arcane to ... = no or insufficient mitigation reduction.
UPDATE 2013-12-10
As of Live version NW.10.20131120a.15, the remaining Powers DO NOT benefit from Armor Penetration,
Magic Missle - extra 2 strikes on 3rd Missile
Conduit of Ice
Entangling Force
Repel - on normal (benefits on Spell Mastery)
Sudden Storm - the DoT portion on Spell Mastery [thanks, blazeblacky]
Storm Fury
Storm Pillar - chains
Ray of Enfeeblement
Ice Knife
Shard of the Endless Avalance - some "Shard Slam" hits in normal slots (benefits on Spell Mastery)
Scorching Burst [thanks, blazeblacky]
Fanning the Flame [thanks, blazeblacky]
Smoulder [thanks, blazeblacky]
Rimfire [thanks, blazeblacky]
The following newly tested Power DOES benefit from Armor Penetration:
Elemental Empowerment [thanks, blazeblacky]
All other CW Powers DO benefit from Armor Penetration.
UPDATE 2013-12-08
The post below refers to pre-Module 2 circumstances. Further testing will be required now that Shadowmantle has hit Live.
=====
POSTED 2013-11-01
Thought I would do some testing of Armor Penetration stat today on Live based on what has been reported by a person in Preview. I thought I would only find a few anomalies with CW Powers. Instead this is what I found (and its reportedly much worse than even on Preview):
YES. Benefit from Armor Penetration:
Ray of Frost
Chill Strike
Ice Storm
Shield Pulse
Storm Spell
Icy Rays
Steal Time
Maelstrom of Chaos
NO. Partly or wholly do not benefit from Armor Penetration:
Magic Missle - extra 2 strikes on 3rd Missile
Conduit of Ice
Entangling Force
Arcane Singularity
Oppressive Force
Repel
Icy Terrain
Sudden Storm
Storm Pillar - chains
Ray of Enfeeblement
Ice Knife
Shard (including Slam and Shardplosion)
So, proportionately, no benefit from:
At-Wills: 2/4 = 50% (*)
Dailies: 2/4 = 50%
Encounters: 7/11 = 64%
Class Features: 0/2 = 0% (*)
(*) UNKNOWN
Chilling Cloud
Storm Fury
Average: 55% (excluding Class Features) or at least 40% (including Class Features).
Method used:
1. Equipped 24.5% ArP with no High Vizier 4-pc bonus or mitigation reduction feats.
2. Travelled to Mount Hotenow.
3. Selected individual Powers to use.
4. Attacked mobs with known Mitigation of 16%, i.e. Miners and Flamespikers.
5. Checked logs for the following type of entries:
[Combat (Self)] Your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> deals ZZZ Arcane to ... = Armor Penetration to 0% mitigation in effect.
[Combat (Self)] Your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> deals YYY (ZZZ) Arcane to ... = no or insufficient mitigation reduction.
Post edited by fondlez on
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And this might be a stupid question, but what do the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>/YYY/ZZZ numbers mean?
<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>=power used
YYY=net damage dealt
ZZZ=actual damage dealt
If the opponent is debuffed into negative defense, Y>Z, if the opponent is not debuffed but has no defense due to arpen Y=Z, if the opponent's defense > your arpen then Y<Z. Usually.
<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> = Power
In first one,
"deals ZZZ Arcane to ..." = ZZZ unmitigated damage was dealt to the target.
In the second one,
"deals YYY (ZZZ) Arcane to ..." = ZZZ was dealt but mitigated down to YYY. The amount of mitigation being [1 - (YYY/ZZZ)]%,
e.g.
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 504 (600) Arcane to Flamespiker.
This implies, there was still Mitigation = 1 - (504/600) = 16% remaining on the target.
If you attack the mob effectively naked and get the same mitigation consistently from all your attacks, then that means the mob has a mitigation of 16%.
Here is another slightly more complicated example,
[Combat (Self)] Your Ray of Enfeeblement deals 712 (619) Arcane to Target Dummy.
The Trade of Blades Target Dummy in Protector's Enclave is known to have no mitigation. Here the final damage is higher than the damage dealt. This is because RoE is a damage increasing buff of 712/619 - 1 = 15%.
If you were to go hit a 16% Mitigation target like one of the Mount Hotenow ones mentioned, currently, regardless of how much Armor Penetration you have, you would see something like this instead:
[Combat (Self)] Your Ray of Enfeeblement deals 613 (619) Arcane to Target Dummy.
That is, an implied Mitigation of 1 - (613/619) = 1%. But of, course what is really happening is that the 16% Mitigation is reduced by RoE's debuff of 15% down to 16% - 15% = 1%.
With more than 16% Armor Penetration, what it should have been showing is an identical number as if you were hitting a Training Dummy.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Thanks and I certainly did!
I mean I've worked weeks to get nice ArP enchants and they don't work on my main 3 AoE nukes? No wonder mages with almost no ArP but lots of Power&Recovery can do monstrous damage sometimes.
What can I say, thanks for the research. At least we have Steal Time, CS and Icy Rays. This should be an easy fix to code.
Awesomely done, man!
My videos
thanks for testing
I very much doubt this. People are complaining about CW damage all over the forums. Basically since Feywild, CWs ALWAYS top the dps chart, sometimes by huge, huge margins (something like double or even more than the best non-CW class). This is the result of the bad dungeon design with huge numbers of adds.
So the devs will not do anything that might increase these numbers even more, if they ever read the forums. If ArP for these skills is fixed, expect big nerfs in their base damage or target limits etc. etc.
Crank up the trash flow intermittently, but alternate with encounters that are optimally suited to physical damage characters so that everyone gets a turn at feeling useful and powerful.
While it's a cheap solution, they could always take a page from other MMOs and carefully introduce more monsters with higher resistance to magic damage and crowd control effects, but increased vulnerability to physical damage and threat control powers. A mix of magic-weak and physical-weak mobs can help diversify party composition.
Perhaps then they could implement further fixes without feeding the community's love-hate (or need-hate) relationship with CWs. "Nerf CWs, they do 3x my damage in dungeons! ...Yay nerf! ....Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...now we need more CWs in our party to get this done...."
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
No one has even come close to beating my damage since I was an 8.5k scrub in open beta; I'm well aware of how OP wizards are, and it's been this way since the game was released. GWFs are getting a small AoE damage boost in this patch, and HRs will be released (no idea how their damage will be but I can only assume it will be sizable). As the game evolves and more classes are released, wizard damage should balance out. Hopefully through buffs to other classes and not nerfs to us.
Many powers such as Icy, Terrain, Shard of the Eternal Avalanche and Daunting Light should now properly benefit from the Armor Penetration stat.
source: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?516771-NW-10-20131018a-8-Shadowmantle-Preview-Patch-Notes
From my own testing, the following CW Powers have been fixed on Preview to benefit from Armor Penetration or already benefit, including new Powers:
Ray of Frost
Chill Strike
Ice Storm
Arcane Singularity
Oppressive Force
Chilling Cloud
Shield Pulse
Icy Terrain
Sudden Storm
Storm Spell
Icy Rays
Steal Time
Shard of the Avalanche
Maelstrom of Chaos
Furious Immolation
These are the remaining CW Powers not benefitting from Armor Penetration:
Magic Missle - extra 2 strikes on 3rd Missile
Conduit of Ice
Entangling Force
Repel - on normal (benefits on Spell Mastery)
Storm Pillar - chains
Ray of Enfeeblement
Ice Knife
Scorching Burst
Fanning the Flame
Smoulder
Unknown:
Storm Fury.
Note.
1. The purpose of thread was for testing on Live since that's where everyone resources and investments have been made.
2. The Preview shard is just as untested as everywhere else. I recommend not taking Patch Notes on face value.
3. Given the Preview patch is a whole new Module and not an ordinary patch, no one knows when it will hit Live, nor what changes will be made.
So Chill Strike is back in my PvP rotation now.
are you 100% sure, that this skills doesn't proc AP? can u post some s/s to proove this ?
You seem confused. It's not an upcoming change. It's how it is already. So there's not much crying to be done, just surprise that we put out so much damage as it is without benefitting from AP. Read the comments. Most of us are unsure if Cryptic will fix this, unless it turns out that other classes have the same issue.
Just open up the combat log and have a look. Here's a snippet vs a GiantSoul in the Arcane Reservoir on the live server :
I have an ArP of 2234, which ought to ignore 22.1% of an opponent's defence. CoI is giving a 15% mitigation reduction for some of this :
[Combat (Self)] Your Conduit of Ice deals 850 (831) Cold to Powrie.
[Combat (Self)] Your Shardplosion deals 3571 (3965) Arcane to Giantsoul.
[[Combat (Self)] Your Shardplosion deals 4134 (4291) Arcane to Witherer.
[Combat (Self)] Your Shardplosion deals 3595 (3898) Arcane to Thorn.
[Combat (Self)] Your Steal Time deals 2085 (1898) Arcane to Giantsoul.
[Combat (Self)] Your Steal Time deals 2255 (2049) Arcane to Thorn.
[Combat (Self)] Your Storm Spell deals 2252 Lightning to Thorn.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Storm Spell deals 2077 (2252) Lightning to Thorn.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Sudden Storm deals 8447 (9159) Lightning to Thorn.
[Combat (Self)] Critical Hit! Your Sudden Storm deals 8352 (9273) Lightning to Giantsoul.
Shard is always doing less damage - i.e not benefitting from ArP
Steal Time is doing more damage, so that seems to be working
The Storm Spell entries don't make much sense.
It's clear that SS doesn't benefit from ArP either.
I already gave the exact and simple method I used in my original post. It is trivial to replicate my results, even before you are level 60. If players had tested even one or two of these powers themselves and made it public, we would have known of the problems far earlier.
Also, it is not "AP", which is the common abbreviation of Action Point gain, but ArP.
Just hope they fix these, as i wont be spending AD to change around my enchants. Good thing our damage is still crazy good regardless of this bug.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
You wont need to. If the new enchant system goes live as is. Unsocketing will no longer cost AD but a paltry bit of gold. Its one of the few positive changes of the new system.
Went onto test server. some of these spells work with ArP now. I will make a new less for the dev's to look at.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Thanks for the kind help! Yes, I thought that was just a pretty picture on the left.
Updated the Preview post accordingly.
Thanks for the feedback. I already did those tests a couple of days ago and posted the results on page two of this thread and in the Preview bug reports.
Still 9 Powers left (plus one unknown - Storm Fury) not benefitting and we have no specific date when Preview will hit or what will change anyway.
Also stormfury is bugged, it procs twice, the 2nd proc doesnt apply ArP.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Confirmed regarding Repel on normal. I have updated my page 2 preview post and preview bug report. Thanks!