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CW nerf? "Shield may only hit up to 5 targets at a time."
krisst0f
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I think this is a change that was badly thought through. I bet the end result will be an increase in CWs in party at the detriment of GF/GWF who already have a hard time getting in "some" dungeon where their role is becoming obsolete (especially GWF)
It'd be interesting to see how many parties form with 3xCWs now... poor decision again./
It'd be interesting to see how many parties form with 3xCWs now... poor decision again./
Post edited by krisst0f on
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The thing is, you can't have an improvement in the perception of the utility of GF and GWF if the classes perceived to make them useless stay as they are. People will simply maintain their perception if no change is made. This particular change may well not be the best way to go about changing those perceptions. We shall see, if it is implemented.
What is your specific suggestion for a better decision?
Edit: Ahhh, I see it will be implemented in today's patch. So much for if.
Well, I can speak for GF... Any place where adds need to be agro'd, a GF is mandatory, like SP final boss... So making sure every map has at least one boss like this (without the ability to bypass it of course...^|^) would make a GF required for a party. (CN doesn't need any GF atm, and that's a bummer cause this is the only place you can get BoE loot that's worth anything...)
It is harder to justify GWF in the first place and I hope for their sake that this can be worked out, because right now, GWFs are kinda of useless...
GWF, sadly, I can see why they aren't routinely brought to dungeons, since it seems to me that they are "second-best" at lots of things, but not really superior at one single thing. (But I'm not a GWF so please educate me if I'm wrong.)
nope its not required, 2cw tr and gwf can easily do it, same with fh
but it finally starts fixing the stupid mob pushing
GF also have an inate ability to debuff all adds "clumped" together in a few clicks, which make them more vulnerable to be killed quickly...
I'd love to hear GWFs' view on their evolving role... as to educate me as well... thx
Maybe in module 2 with the new paragon paths that can be shared across GF/GWFs, this will allow GWF to agro better as well... dunno...
Do you have a tanky GWF act as the kiter? How exactly does this work?
I did it with a 2 CW 1 TR 1 GF 1 DC team, and the final boss fight was slow. I would have gladly traded one CW for another TR, or GWF.
Edit: I'm referring to the final boss fight at Frozen Heart.
Mob pushing still require timing and skill and singularity is a daily, so it is not on all the time... GF can block and build AP faster than anything, which a GWF can't do. I doubt a GWF can survive long with intermittent astral shield while agroing 20+ adds like a GF would do fine. And I am NOT talking about running around only here...
FH last boss is a joke for a GF, I stand in place, stunning all adds while everyone else tank the boss... so that's the wrong example. You don't even need a DC for that FH fight. SP last boss is more representative of the issue here...
A GF is nice for undergeared groups, that's true. But once you have your stuff together, you wanna run with an additional CW as well. And I agree that the perception is worse than the situation.
Hi, I have a weapon fighter. They are useless.
Also Malabog, bc the Fulmi randomly aggros a player after the air phase and the only thing to draw attention away from that player temporarily seems to be Knights Challenge.
these paragon paths for gwf are A COMPLETE AND UTTER FAIL(if we get the few useless gf skills i dont want nor need) sentinel might get smth out of it but not destroyer
u dont have to be tanky, i did it with my salvage item geared cw, with gwf its actually harder cause gwf dont have any good ranged abilities and u should be on boss since u do more single target dmg
as for cw Conduit of ice and chill for pulling, shield for damage resistance and icy terrain + oppressive for aditional threat
i havent done gwf in fh, just spell(although 2cw+dc = enough for spell adds) but u probably could use leap, not so fast and roar or smth, come and get it and charge could be useful 2
I think this will have the opposite effect, parties will require MORE CWs in order to be able to push off more adds following Singularity...
I personally hate this argument. I see much of the imbalance in Neverwinter at the moment being related to the CW community. Having played CW myself, I see why. It is by far the favored class, and the little nerfs here and there do little more in practical application than convince the CW community to double up their resources and hire more CW's ... all to do the same thing they were doing.
To many in this class' community, CW is the only class worth bringing, and no other class is necessary except possibly a DC. I've had more than once CW even argue that they can debuff and damage the boss almost as well as the TR, so why bother even with them?
In the end, I don't know what is on the developers minds, but I have a good impression of the communities. Since every single epic dungeon can be completed by almost any combination of classes, including 5-man GWF parties, I think the mechanics themselves are ironed out.
With the addition of yet another damage dealer who can do the job of a CW or TR on a pinch, why would these 'less than optimal classes' WANT to bring a CW with us?
It's not the developers I'm frustrated with. I'm to the point myself of boycotting the whole class.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I see your point, but CWs are the only class that can clump together tons of adds, then push them off in one shot, decreasing by a HUGE amount the time it takes to finish a dungeon... Yes it is possible to clear without pushing, but for a lots of people time is money, and they will go for the shortcut, hence pick up more CWs in their parties, to the detriment of other classes...
Not the only class that can clump them together. A hard working GWF who can stomach using Come and Get it and his GF friend and him can push the mobs, too.
But it don't take that long to kill them, either. I'm definitely not afraid to party entirely without CW's from now on.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
u are useless, gwf is not. learn to play or gtfo
by the time u clump adds together and push them, 2 good(not the average 13k_gs_gets_outdamaged_by_cleric_companion) gwf can kill the adds, i hate these cw pushing adds. on my cw ill use singularity only in spell on last boss, there are a few places where its good, but mostly it just wastes time
GF only have Bull Rush to push off... and that's only 1 add at a time... Frontline surge "might" be pushing some, but only if they are clumped exactly on the edge of a cliff... and that rarely happens... plus it has a long cooldown. GFs role is definitely NOT pushing adds off...
All dungeons, 5 CW. Packs get destroyed within 5-10 seconds. When you kill things so fast, you don't need to heal and due to the short cooldowns for potions. At high end CW don't even bother bumping. Bump is not the problem the "problem" is that CW have this spell called Singularity. This spell is so good due to the endless add mechanics that is Neverwinter. It draws all mobs to a single location (in a controlled manner) to be blown over. 5 mages = Non stop singularity.
The only time CW is not so great are mobs where you can't singularity
Singularity is why CW is preferred to all classes.
Nope, but it can do it. It does a much better job at killing them. Again, CW's are unnecessary.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
And HR's are possibly getting 'Seismic Shot', which shoots an arrow into the ground and pulls mobs to that point.
Probably not as good as Sinq, but I'll make the exchange.
Clumping mobs isn't just for pushing, as we all know. It also does a good job of getting them all together to make it easier for melee to hit.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
You are missing the point... People will form parties to minimize the amount of time it takes to finish dungeons.. This means having more CWs to get around pushing only 5 adds at a time instead of all of them in one shot...
Btw, I LOVE clearing up dungeons too, but it seems impossible nowadays to find parties that do that...
The people you mention are already doing this. Those CW's will take other CW's with them. Fine.
The rest of us can do without the arrogance and high-and-mighty attitudes of those players anyhow.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
GF's can spec very well into pushing adds off and mine does so exceedingly well with both Frontline and Bull's. The 12 second cooldown on frontline isn't ideal, but since you can hit two bull's in that time it's easily managed. With a GPF, Perf Terror or Perf Bronzewood it also allows you to deal significant damage to anything that isn't knocked off.
This needs to change? will it? probably not cause that will be in the "too hard" basket
So I actually think that CWs control powers should ne be nerfed.. that's what they do, that's what they need to do. I don't see the point in nerfing their control in pve..
However there aoe dps is completely broken in pve and requires a very significant nerf..
Devs please restore CWs CC and nerf the aoe dps.... that would be the step in the correct direction..
Instead of nerfing Shield,which I hear CW also use to push adds away from them when they are swamped, they should probably have a "save" dice roll and at least give a chance to have "some" adds ignore the singularity... That would make more sense...