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Sorry guys.. but have to say, the new Neverwinter format is a huge disappointment!
apollobez
Member Posts: 1 Arc User
Just replayed Neverwinternights 2 while ago, and I am astonished that Forgotten Realms agreed to this new arcade style hack and slash format.
Being an original D&D player from the late 70's, (yes I'm 45 with a never ending fascination with fantasy roleplaying), I am taken back that this, and the trailers for the new, Neverwinter are being marketed as "a true D&D experience". Come on guys, even after Skyrim (?), who's storyline and world will never be as rich, diverse and encompassing as AD&D's. But, (barring their character management system), they produced an experience closer to the spirit of role playing than anyone else.
Why in the world would "ya'll" take a big leap backward with this "kids" friendly game?
Sorry again guys, but my heart is crushed!
Being an original D&D player from the late 70's, (yes I'm 45 with a never ending fascination with fantasy roleplaying), I am taken back that this, and the trailers for the new, Neverwinter are being marketed as "a true D&D experience". Come on guys, even after Skyrim (?), who's storyline and world will never be as rich, diverse and encompassing as AD&D's. But, (barring their character management system), they produced an experience closer to the spirit of role playing than anyone else.
Why in the world would "ya'll" take a big leap backward with this "kids" friendly game?
Sorry again guys, but my heart is crushed!
Post edited by apollobez on
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By "Forgotten Realms" I assume you mean Wizards of the Coast which is/was a money starved subsidiary of Hasbro? WotC is a crack-***** version of it's former self. Is it any wonder that this game is "D&D" in basically name only? They slapped D&D "labels" on things and act like that makes it a D&D centric game.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Short of a very few games, devs have always had a VERY hard time translating the spirit of D&D into a digital format. And even then, the digital format is quite limited compared to what can be done with the classic pencil and paper. It's a tough job.
As opposed to the old "arcade style hack and slash" format of, say, the D&D arcade games (1993+), or the console games (2001+)?
Not saying that this game can't use some improvements. Just reminding that "D&D" has existed in a great many formats over the years, with varying degrees of connection to the tabletop RPG. Anyone remember Spellfire (1994), the collectable card game? Or how about Dragon Dice (1995), the collectable dice game? Heck, I just downloaded a new f2p D&D mobile game today, which combines the common & annoying "collect & combine random cards" mechanic, plus the annoying "energy" mechanic, with a combat system that seems to be based on billiards? It's odd as hell.
Also, just because it's got Neverwinter in it's name, doesn't mean it's supposed to have any connection to Neverwinter Nights 1 or 2... yes, they're based in the same region & campaign setting, but that's it.
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Two things:
1. I don't understand this idea people have that they're supposed to open all those boxes. They drop commonly because they're not meant to be rare - i.e, it's intended that you don't have to go searching hard if you decide you want to open one; not because you're supposed to use all the silly things. Me, I just ignore them most of the time. My stack of boxes is in the absolute last/bottom slot of my bags, where I never see it anyway, it auto-loots so I never have to think about taking it, they're really easily ignorable, honestly.
2. Bank slots are.... not the best purchase. Either save up for a real bag, or go the "mule" route and spend 500 zen on a couple character slots. You can just quickly level up a couple characters to lv7 (quest long enough to get that first free bag) and then mail all your extra junk to them. And you can even level them up to 10/11, so that they can do Leadership & Invoking (more easy AD + those celestial coin enchant boxes)
I would advice to anyone who wants to play the "true D&D experience" to actually play the tabletop game.
Indeed, if you are going to play nwn here, tone down your expectations and expect some hack n slash diablo-like game. Then you will be surprised how rich the game is
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
If you are wanting that 'true' D&D feel. Then get some friends together and play whatever edition you enjoy the most.
I put true inside the markers as that word is trivial. It's all perspective. What you or I consider to be 'a true D&D experience' is subjective to each individual.
That said, it's an amalgamation of modern MMO tropes based heavily on DnD 4e. The combat system is Cryptics, and is a viable substitute for the turn-based nature of DnD, while allowing players to get into the world.
It has made me want to reinstall Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter and play them again. But being honest, even they really didn't come close to that DnD feel.
You just can't get there, without a real DM behind the scenes.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Certain elements of the experience can be replicated. But to think any MMO or online game will make you feel like you're playing the tabletop game is to chase phantoms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons%3A_Shadow_over_Mystara
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_DragonsGDN_Tower_of_Doom
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Sorry guy, I'm having a blast with this game :P
Hasbro, the parent company of Wizards of the Coast actually sued Atari, the previous parent company of Cryptic, over the rights to D&D. In the end, Hasbro kept the rights to D&D while Atari kept rights to finish the titles they were already working on. But then Atari sold Cryptic to to PWE, so PWE has the right to make Neverwinter but no other D&D games.
So I don't think its right to blame Wizards of the Coast as they are legally bound to allow Neverwinter to exist.
Exactly. When I saw DDO, and heard it was Ebberon, I was so disappointed.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Same here! D&D junkie and loving it!
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Well, if I had to guess, "making cash" by marketing their brand isn't why they aren't profitable. That's kind of an oxymoron. It's likely the ONLY thing they do that's profitable.
I'd imagine it's because a large swaith of the "true fans" are now 45+ like the OP, and aren't interested in fantasy gaming anymore, or don't have the time, or are happy with older editions and not in the market for new, modern systems designed to try and draw in a crowd of younger people who enjoy video games and chatroom RP more than traditional tabletop gaming (and who will probably just torrent PDFs of the sourcebooks if they want to play D&D, in any case).
That, combined with the stupid 3e OGL they created that allowed the Pathfinder people to walk off with a huge chunk of their intellectual property to found a competing company in an already shrinking market is a far more likely cause.
I'll agree with this, though.
Don't hung up with that D&D related thing, I noticed fastly the only D&D/Swordcoast related is mostly the areasetting...
I was also really f* excited after I heard for the first time about, just thought about a good old Neverwinter Nights, just as a fresh MMO - what came was this, an action thing with much less D%&D feeling than I hoped for.
Anyway this game kept me (started at Open Beta Day1) until today, and also will a bit longer - to me it's just nice
To make NWO more interesting, realistic, and challenging, I would change three things:
1. Only first person view .... because humanoids do not have eyes in the sky, and because first person view is more immersive. There could be a magic power such as "eye in the sky" (with temporary and fixed camera view for the caster). Or maybe no such power at all.
2. No auto targeting. No target locking. All attacks must be aimed.
3. Friendly fire. Players can damage and kill each other. Attack spam, especially AoE attacks, may be deadly to other party members.
As I think back through all the D&D computer games I've played over the decades, I've got to say that pretty much all of them (including the tabletop game) have been 3rd person view. In fact, most of them have been very wide/high 3rd person view, so that you could see the whole battlefield and move your party members effectively.
(Also not sure what "more immersive" and the second bit - make it even more of an action game, with manual targeting - have to do with being a "serious" D&D game. Or what being more "realistic" has to do with D&D, either. /shrug)
Wow, that is such a bad idea in so many horrible ways, its almost hard to take seriously. This would be literally ringing the dinner bell for every troll, griefer, and sociopath on the web. Every group experience would be a carnival of PVP. Subject to the whims, whiles, and wants, of the most socially inept and disturbed members.
However, short of that, I can't see how this game is any worse an implementation of D&D than, say, Icewind Dale, which was pretty much as "action" as you could get with a 2-d sprite-based game. Sure, the build system is a kind of mixture of D&D and Cryptic's own system - but actually, if you get into it, it's very elegantly done, and quite absorbing and interesting in its own right.
As to general "feel", this game, so far as I can see, adheres quite well to the D&D lore that's built up over the years. I guess Cryptic felt they had to do that to compensate for the un-D&D-ey-ness of the build system and combat. But they have done a good job of that, and the game does feel like a coherent D&D realm to me. Also, in terms of classes and abilities, the game does stick fairly closely to 4e, FWIW.
It's swings and roundabouts. Something is lost, for sure, in terms of all the familiar build tropes; but for anyone who feels strongly about this, I'd urge them to give the game a chance. It's a very fun game, no matter what you call it. It's as intricate in its build system as D&D (though in a different way) and it's as absorbing and immersive as any D&D based videogame I've ever played.
Especially note, that a lot of the Foundry quests have been done by ex-DMs, and some of them are as good as, if not better than, some of the dev-created quests, in terms of D&D atmosphere. It's quite open to anyone who loves the lore to create a quest that is as solid, lore-wise, as you can make it.
D&D is like Star Trek it's hit or miss...also D&D is just many versions of arbitrary rules, with a vague description of many worlds from tech based to magic based. There is no one true unifying thing that says Forgotten Realms.
Basically D&D like, heaven, Hell and Linn Karters bedroom is what you imagine it to be.
When I say, D&D, I don't simply mean, a game with a D&D logo on it. I mean a game which include dungeon exploration and monster encounters, such as dragons.
The epitome of a dungeon exploration game is the "dungeon crawler".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeon_crawl
The only screenshot on the page is in first person view.
There are already numerous multi-player computer games with friendly fire. There are work-able solutions to deal with team killers, such as by kicking and replacing problematic players, and/or by temporarily locking out their attack powers, and/or temporary ban from dungeons.
Ooh, I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, friendly fire combined with #2 (no targeting assist) is just a recipe for massive death & grief (boss knocks back people right as others attack - mistaken hits everywhere. That's no way to run a team-based action MMO.)
Those two things together make me think he's not looking for a "serious D&D game", but rather a Dark Souls MMO.
I've always found this question of the immersiveness of first person to be highly dubious. In real life, we have something called situational awareness. We are constantly looking around, listening around, so that we have a sense of what's all around us in the world, not just in front of our faces if we're looking forward. To that extent, 3rd person is actually more immersive to me, most of the time (except wrt the question of LoS). However, first person is more immersive in dungeon crawls, precisely because when we are afraid our vision narrows to "tunnel vision" and we lose our situational awareness, so first person works really well in dungeon crawling, where the fear factor and the anticipation of the unknown are high. (This is why I used to mix up 3rd and 1st person in Oblivion and Skyrim and usually do so whenever a game allows it.)
Umm, that's actually a feature of this game. It doesn't have tab/auto-targeting. It has a very well-implemented sort of "sticky" targeting, but that's far from the kind of tab-targeting that's common in MMOs (which I actually like - it's much faster than manual aiming when you get used to it).
As the guy said above, this would be a griefer's paradise.
However, I could see it being done in a turn-based multiplayer game - which as I said in a post above, if you REALLY wanted to implement D&D to the fullest, it would have to be turn-based, with all the intricacy of the rules like "initiative" and "flat-footed" working properly. The problem with that is attention span. I'm afraid most players of videogames wouldn't have the patience for it. Many would, of course, but probably not enough to make a mass-market game like this one.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Forgotten_Realms