@whoamark: I completely understand your lack of motivation to play after such an annoying group issue. I can say with confidence that the fault is not yours. I've dealt with an increasingly higher amount of players that seem to forget and/or don't care that most people are not born "pro." Learning anything, let alone a game takes time and practice.
The Cleric was completely out of line for acting irrational over something so incredibly basic and understandable. Granted, he could have been having a bad day/week involving that instance, thus putting him on edge, but if he were an adult, he should have been able to at least try to calm himself down and explain to you in a rational and constructive manner on how to do what, and why. People like that are a reason why I often prefer 18+ aka "mature" guilds or parties. While there are plenty of adults who act like annoying, anger-plagued children that seem to lack commonsense or the ability to learn about others or explain, but I find that "mature" guilds can at least mitigate some of that.
That being said, I've met a number of adolescents that are exceptions to my preferences, and I'm sure there are plenty more out there. However, I do not believe the number is great enough to break my general rule.
Something I've learned about MMOs and gaming in general over my many years of playing is that when you lose motivation to play a game, no matter how much you thought you liked the game, do not try and force yourself to play. Even if it helps in the short term (which I doubt), you will end up completely burning yourself out, and it will take you a long time to "recover" and sincerely wish to play again, if ever.
My advice to you in terms of your lack of motivation is to take a break from the game until you sincerely want to play again, and do so with this in mind: You are in the minority. You are more rational and helpful than the average MMORPG player, and the sooner you embrace that semi-bitter truth, the better. Try to seek out others like you, and I wish you all the best!
I've only recently started playing, but if you'd like to party up sometime or would like to converse, feel free to contact me.
My advice to you in terms of your lack of motivation is to take a break from the game until you sincerely want to play again, and do so with this in mind: You are in the minority. You are more rational and helpful than the average MMORPG player, and the sooner you embrace that semi-bitter truth, the better. Try to seek out others like you, and I wish you all the best!
It's fine. I've been dedicated to MMOs for the past ten years so it takes a lot more to ruin the entire experience for me.
In any case I'm over it. I've started a third character for times of frustrations. I put it on myself partially for not reading tactics prior and for not looking more intently for a helpful guild. I've since left that guild and am guildless until I find such a guild.
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited October 2013
Doh, I overlooked the first pull bit.
Yeah the entire dungeon can be done completely without knockoffs though it is far easier/faster with them.
The cleric now looks even worse in my eyes than he did previously.
neeja737Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited October 2013
Small world!
I was with you in that group! I am the guildi that did not leave! I just want to let you know that I have reported our other guildy's rotten behaviour. I doubt it will change much but at least the leadership knows, if nothing is done then we can say the leadership has its share of responsability.
Ever since that time, I must admit I feel bitter myself, I am unsure if I should stay with my current guild, thing is they are some great people in there. After you left some others came on and tought us SP... I wished you would log back on that night so you could join us... I did SP again the following day with and awsome pug believe it or not, I was lucky. They are still good people my friend, we just have to find them.
Since we have friended each other in game, Ill be able to see you again soon and maybe get a good group together. If I find a more mature guild, thats more to our style ill let you know. For now Im staying with them hoping they clean up from the rotten aples.
0
rlrobrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
In the mean time I've got some guildies and we do T2 instances, but last night something left a real sour taste in my mouth. I had two guild mates join a party to which we decided to do Spellplague. On the first pull I break out my singularity on the adds and then start attacking as normally -- big mistake. The cleric immediately rages that I need to use singularity near the cliff edge and then push the adds off or the instance isn't worth his time, or anyone elses.
Not a big deal. I haven't had to push anything off ledges before but I've seen plenty of wizards do it on my rogue. Amidst of the chaos of red circles and red cones I get to the ledge where the GF has the adds ready. I go to do my singularity when something goes wrong and my shield ends up pushing them short of falling, at which point the DC and a guild mate leave the dungeon, calling me out.
Spellplage is the longest dungeon in the game, one of the most difficult and has a terrible drop rate. The fastest run I had there took around 1h, but it usually takes between 1:30 and 2:00 and this is only possible by pushing adds off the cliffs and avoiding fights whenever possible. If you don't do that and instead fight every mob, you'll need around 3 hours.
If I'm pugging with a different class and the CW fails to push mobs after a few tries, I quit because I don't have 3 hours to loose, so I totally understand the reason they left (if the CW fails on the first fights, it's almost certain he will fail on the final battle). However, I'd never quit when playing with guild mates, or at least I'd explain what he is doing wrong and give him more chances to do it right.
So, I'd give you two pieces of advice:
1 - Find a better guild
2 - Learn how to push mobs off cliffs because you'll need it if you want to complete Spellplague and/or CN as a CW (and it helps a lot on other dungeons as well)
I definitely know what you are talking about OP, I took my CW into SP for the first time this weekend, and had never really played much with Shield before (my TR is my main). I probably would have done the same thing.
Thankfully I found my group through the NW_Legit_Community channel, and I ran it with another CW who knew the ropes and was willing/happy to teach. Very helpful, very patient, and even though we had some bumps on the last boss (GWF tank disconnect at 50%? No problem ), it was a great group to run with.
Yes and that's the reason nobody runs it I meant the dungeons people actually run.
Well, we usually run it at least once...and then if a guildy needs it...and then pray it is for the last time. But hey, at least it now usually has an end drop!
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
It's the old "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime" adage. Each person that takes the time to show another what strategies and powers work best potentially improves the play experience of everyone else who plays with that person, (provided they take those lessons to heart, of course). Then perhaps they pass on that knowledge, and the cycle continues.
It's for just this reason that I encourage all to use the NW_Legit_Community channel and share their knowledge and experience!
Michael: "GOB, you�re going to burn through this money and have nothing, all right? 'You give a man a fish, he'll eat for a night. If you teach a man to fish...'"
GOB: "He'll want to use your yacht, and I don't want this thing smelling like fish."
The only thing i can say - don't pug ppl)) It is frustrating. Once i'm in a premade group (even made from lfg channel) - we are ready to discuss something and adjust to each other. Once i just join the queue - i get the team of stubborn people who "know how to play this game".
No they don't.
Never pug
The only thing i can say - don't pug ppl)) It is frustrating. Once i'm in a premade group (even made from lfg channel) - we are ready to discuss something and adjust to each other. Once i just join the queue - i get the team of stubborn people who "know how to play this game".
No they don't.
Never pug
Yeah but here's the thing.
If you are a Lvl60 with T1 gear, and you want to tackle the harder dungeons to gear up, you are told to go find a guild to run a dungeon with you.
If you don't have a good guild, or if your guild is good but just isn't full of hardcore dungeon runners, you are told to go find a group in LFG chat.
But the requests in LFG chat are all full of "EXP ONLY PLZ" (i.e., know the exploits and shortcuts) and if you don't already know them, you won't get invited. Plus, try getting invited to a LFG group if you play a GWF or if you're a CW without the HV gear, even if you do know the exploits. So then you are told to just PUG via the queue system.
But then the PUG experience turns out much like the OP's experience.
It would be nice if there were a resolution to this apparent catch-22 of trying to gear up.
I've done SP without the pushing up till the last boss. On the last boss the purple creeps the the glowing redish creeps are enough issue to want to just get rid of them. The last boss is the only location that we 'needed' to push anything off of the edge. On my DC because I knew the fight well enough, I was able to assist with some of the pushes and knew which mobs I could safely toss outside of a sing/close to the boss without having it blow up in my face with me only ending up with aggro.
If you havent run with a guildy through something - its best to assume they havent done it before, ask, and give instructions as needed.
Youtube doesnt always tell what skills are being used, how or why, the party you're with can.
I ran my TR till she had full T2 set (still need rings/weapon) and more importantly, till I'd seen/learned enough of the tricks to be confident with my DC, and my CW when she gets of level.
If you have a good GF, he/she can tank all the adds in the middle while everyone DPS the boss. As the ground breaks and boss submerges, a CW would suck everything up and push everything off once. Boss will go down in no time.
Gearscore was one of the worst additions to games in recent years. It sits up there alongside things like metacritic, gfwl and securom.
It's like metacritic's scoring system that people think is a good valid way of judging somethings quality when in actuality it's just a number with very little meaning.
There's not an ingame mechanic to show why item x gives a better score than item y and Just because someone has good gear doesnt mean they earned the gear or are actually able to make use of it. They might just have converted zen to AD and blown the lot on the AH.
Yes it's a handy way to suggest that you're maybe not geared enough to enter a place but this also highlights a bigger failing of the game.
The levelling speed in neverwinter is such that it's incredibly easy for a dps class to skip the normal instance while they level unless they're prepared to dedicate hours sitting about doing nothing while trying to find a group. This means that the first time a lot of people see a place is for the level 60 variety which is less than ideal and bad game design which could have been covered by a sidekicking or downlevelling mechanic such as that seen in STO, another cryptic title.
What ever happened to running Dungeons without exploits?
Can't hardly find any group for MC outside of friends list that fight the last boss.
If you fail so hard at a fairly easy boss fight that you can't finish it, you don't deserve the loot, and the glitch takes 2 - 3 times as long as a normal kill.
What ever happened to running Dungeons without exploits?
Can't hardly find any group for MC outside of friends list that fight the last boss.
If you fail so hard at a fairly easy boss fight that you can't finish it, you don't deserve the loot, and the glitch takes 2 - 3 times as long as a normal kill.
Sorry sidetracking...
Stolen from bioshrike's sig: Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? /Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community to play the right way!
It's all about the most profit in the shortest amount of time possible. Look at the LFG channel. You see nothing but requests for jumpers, runners, exp(loiter), fast, and gogogo. Even if you ask the question at the beginning of the dungeon it gets ignored, and the rest of the group is already on the second or third fight. Even when you explicitly state that you are new/learning all you get in response is "Just keep up" if not out right kicked. Every group has different expectations of what they want a class to do, and think you will know by osmosis.
I have read up both here in the Forum and the Wiki how to fight a boss, only to never get with a group that actually follows that. Players can slow down the pace themselves, but you have to find the right group/guild. It would be nice if guilds were the solution to the lack of mentoring, but often as not they are prime contributors to the problem. Patience is a virtue that has been classified as old fashioned and has been consigned to the dustbin right along side selflessness.
I am a veteran formally paid to play, and former pro competitor.
The game dynamics are set for fast pace killing, fast pace looting and no patience.
New Age gamers are the worst of all these problems.
They Do not understand new players need guidance.
They Do not understand the concept of need before greed.
They do not understand the premise of a gaming community.
They do not understand that Any dungeon no matter what the difficulty is requires other players to be able to handle the stresses of those crawls with no other stress from the ones that want to control everything.
They are oblivious to this concept.
It is not entirely their fault though. The game Dynamics promote this style of chaos. And: They definitely do not understand the concept of need.
Most F2P games are not designed for long term investment.
Most F2p games are designed for the player to get up to level cap, Get all the correct builds, and Kill any idea of a community gaming standard's.
F2P games are meant and designed to make a quick buck made by the developers with little to no investment(monetarily or other wise) community standards are not their objective here lets clear that misconception up now!!. I want to emphasize this one because it is the truth...
PWE is notoriously infamous for this gaming style thou they are getting better at fixing it.
How did I come to this conclusion easy.
The Simple examples of a much larger problem.
The Interface is antiquated.
The Character customization is antiquated and proprietary.
The armor base's all look the same.
Game play is fast paced but there really is no progressive future to this game.
You can only get one type of mount from a in game vendor outside of the zen shop.
The limitation of character creation is extremely limited, and is proprietary as well unless one spends out of pocket to have the option of more choices.
The game economy is antiquated, and is set up specifically to drain players of real life funds (commonly known as a money pit I can come up with a laundry list of all F2P games that fit this design but I will not because that would be to long). Which is fine (to a point) they need to make money to continue the game, but the lack of balance in all the game dynamics is not there and never will be there and do not expect there ever to be any...
The astral diamond set up is extremely difficult to acquire the diamonds with out extreme time on farming and then you have to wait 1 hour and 15 hours to try and get another opportunity to acquire them.
In short the game dynamics are designed for short term and minimal investment to acquire as maximum of a financial gain for little or no investment, that is the corporate design paradigms I see here in Neverwinter.
My point is simple. See the game for what the game is a short term investment with little to no future if they maintain the course they are currently on with Neverwinter's Design.
This has been plaguing people who play F2P games since the idea was born. Emphasis on PWE's game's (since they technically pioneered the idea).
Do not get me wrong the idea of a f2p game with this level of graphical detail and the dodge ability is great but that is the only high points to it.
A easily understandable comparison's.
(F2P's GAMES in general)= 1 star fast food restaurant: Mc'Donalds fast food low price bad for the body in and out done.<==<< Low cost, and low quality and very little in return to the customer for their investment but <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
(Neverwinter if they get their stuff together, and WOW Game)= 3 star restaurant Martha's Italian Bistro, Medium food prep time, Decent quality great for the body, time to sit and talk with friends and or family. But some mild discomfort but still good for some relaxation and having a good time with family and or business associates.<==<< Middle to high quality environment, middle to high quality food, and a fairly balanced quality returned to the customer for their investment.
(Everquest and other not free to play game's)= 5 Star restaurant Gentlemens choice Slow cook times high quality foods, cocktails, wine or top shelf liquors. Very good for your body high price, high yields, and high investment on the restaurant owners part. They push for a conducive environment that promotes the leisurely business's meeting's or top quality family time while enjoying their stay.<==<<< High quality environment, Middle to high cost on food, High quality of service and there is high quality being returned to the customer for their investment.
F2P Business design: Take advantage of the economical instability plaguing the countries and capitalise as much as they can with out spending large amounts of the sponsorship's capital.
Comments
The Cleric was completely out of line for acting irrational over something so incredibly basic and understandable. Granted, he could have been having a bad day/week involving that instance, thus putting him on edge, but if he were an adult, he should have been able to at least try to calm himself down and explain to you in a rational and constructive manner on how to do what, and why. People like that are a reason why I often prefer 18+ aka "mature" guilds or parties. While there are plenty of adults who act like annoying, anger-plagued children that seem to lack commonsense or the ability to learn about others or explain, but I find that "mature" guilds can at least mitigate some of that.
That being said, I've met a number of adolescents that are exceptions to my preferences, and I'm sure there are plenty more out there. However, I do not believe the number is great enough to break my general rule.
Something I've learned about MMOs and gaming in general over my many years of playing is that when you lose motivation to play a game, no matter how much you thought you liked the game, do not try and force yourself to play. Even if it helps in the short term (which I doubt), you will end up completely burning yourself out, and it will take you a long time to "recover" and sincerely wish to play again, if ever.
My advice to you in terms of your lack of motivation is to take a break from the game until you sincerely want to play again, and do so with this in mind: You are in the minority. You are more rational and helpful than the average MMORPG player, and the sooner you embrace that semi-bitter truth, the better. Try to seek out others like you, and I wish you all the best!
I've only recently started playing, but if you'd like to party up sometime or would like to converse, feel free to contact me.
Cheers!
I wasn't. :P I've never even done a boss fight in SP.
It's fine. I've been dedicated to MMOs for the past ten years so it takes a lot more to ruin the entire experience for me.
In any case I'm over it. I've started a third character for times of frustrations. I put it on myself partially for not reading tactics prior and for not looking more intently for a helpful guild. I've since left that guild and am guildless until I find such a guild.
Yeah the entire dungeon can be done completely without knockoffs though it is far easier/faster with them.
The cleric now looks even worse in my eyes than he did previously.
I was with you in that group! I am the guildi that did not leave! I just want to let you know that I have reported our other guildy's rotten behaviour. I doubt it will change much but at least the leadership knows, if nothing is done then we can say the leadership has its share of responsability.
Ever since that time, I must admit I feel bitter myself, I am unsure if I should stay with my current guild, thing is they are some great people in there. After you left some others came on and tought us SP... I wished you would log back on that night so you could join us... I did SP again the following day with and awsome pug believe it or not, I was lucky. They are still good people my friend, we just have to find them.
Since we have friended each other in game, Ill be able to see you again soon and maybe get a good group together. If I find a more mature guild, thats more to our style ill let you know. For now Im staying with them hoping they clean up from the rotten aples.
Spellplage is the longest dungeon in the game, one of the most difficult and has a terrible drop rate. The fastest run I had there took around 1h, but it usually takes between 1:30 and 2:00 and this is only possible by pushing adds off the cliffs and avoiding fights whenever possible. If you don't do that and instead fight every mob, you'll need around 3 hours.
If I'm pugging with a different class and the CW fails to push mobs after a few tries, I quit because I don't have 3 hours to loose, so I totally understand the reason they left (if the CW fails on the first fights, it's almost certain he will fail on the final battle). However, I'd never quit when playing with guild mates, or at least I'd explain what he is doing wrong and give him more chances to do it right.
So, I'd give you two pieces of advice:
1 - Find a better guild
2 - Learn how to push mobs off cliffs because you'll need it if you want to complete Spellplague and/or CN as a CW (and it helps a lot on other dungeons as well)
Thankfully I found my group through the NW_Legit_Community channel, and I ran it with another CW who knew the ropes and was willing/happy to teach. Very helpful, very patient, and even though we had some bumps on the last boss (GWF tank disconnect at 50%? No problem
Right on!
Oh come on, Dread Vault is longer, more painful, and the drops are even worse! Don't forget when it didn't drop anything!
Yes and that's the reason nobody runs it
Well, we usually run it at least once...and then if a guildy needs it...and then pray it is for the last time. But hey, at least it now usually has an end drop!
Michael: "GOB, you�re going to burn through this money and have nothing, all right? 'You give a man a fish, he'll eat for a night. If you teach a man to fish...'"
GOB: "He'll want to use your yacht, and I don't want this thing smelling like fish."
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
No they don't.
Never pug
Yeah but here's the thing.
If you are a Lvl60 with T1 gear, and you want to tackle the harder dungeons to gear up, you are told to go find a guild to run a dungeon with you.
If you don't have a good guild, or if your guild is good but just isn't full of hardcore dungeon runners, you are told to go find a group in LFG chat.
But the requests in LFG chat are all full of "EXP ONLY PLZ" (i.e., know the exploits and shortcuts) and if you don't already know them, you won't get invited. Plus, try getting invited to a LFG group if you play a GWF or if you're a CW without the HV gear, even if you do know the exploits. So then you are told to just PUG via the queue system.
But then the PUG experience turns out much like the OP's experience.
It would be nice if there were a resolution to this apparent catch-22 of trying to gear up.
If you have a good GF, he/she can tank all the adds in the middle while everyone DPS the boss. As the ground breaks and boss submerges, a CW would suck everything up and push everything off once. Boss will go down in no time.
It's like metacritic's scoring system that people think is a good valid way of judging somethings quality when in actuality it's just a number with very little meaning.
There's not an ingame mechanic to show why item x gives a better score than item y and Just because someone has good gear doesnt mean they earned the gear or are actually able to make use of it. They might just have converted zen to AD and blown the lot on the AH.
Yes it's a handy way to suggest that you're maybe not geared enough to enter a place but this also highlights a bigger failing of the game.
The levelling speed in neverwinter is such that it's incredibly easy for a dps class to skip the normal instance while they level unless they're prepared to dedicate hours sitting about doing nothing while trying to find a group. This means that the first time a lot of people see a place is for the level 60 variety which is less than ideal and bad game design which could have been covered by a sidekicking or downlevelling mechanic such as that seen in STO, another cryptic title.
Can't hardly find any group for MC outside of friends list that fight the last boss.
If you fail so hard at a fairly easy boss fight that you can't finish it, you don't deserve the loot, and the glitch takes 2 - 3 times as long as a normal kill.
Sorry sidetracking...
Stolen from bioshrike's sig: Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? /Channel_Join NW_Legit_Community to play the right way!
The game dynamics are set for fast pace killing, fast pace looting and no patience.
New Age gamers are the worst of all these problems.
They Do not understand new players need guidance.
They Do not understand the concept of need before greed.
They do not understand the premise of a gaming community.
They do not understand that Any dungeon no matter what the difficulty is requires other players to be able to handle the stresses of those crawls with no other stress from the ones that want to control everything.
They are oblivious to this concept.
It is not entirely their fault though. The game Dynamics promote this style of chaos.
And: They definitely do not understand the concept of need.
Most F2P games are not designed for long term investment.
Most F2p games are designed for the player to get up to level cap, Get all the correct builds, and Kill any idea of a community gaming standard's.
F2P games are meant and designed to make a quick buck made by the developers with little to no investment(monetarily or other wise) community standards are not their objective here lets clear that misconception up now!!. I want to emphasize this one because it is the truth...
PWE is notoriously infamous for this gaming style thou they are getting better at fixing it.
How did I come to this conclusion easy.
The Simple examples of a much larger problem.
The Interface is antiquated.
The Character customization is antiquated and proprietary.
The armor base's all look the same.
Game play is fast paced but there really is no progressive future to this game.
You can only get one type of mount from a in game vendor outside of the zen shop.
The limitation of character creation is extremely limited, and is proprietary as well unless one spends out of pocket to have the option of more choices.
The game economy is antiquated, and is set up specifically to drain players of real life funds (commonly known as a money pit I can come up with a laundry list of all F2P games that fit this design but I will not because that would be to long). Which is fine (to a point) they need to make money to continue the game, but the lack of balance in all the game dynamics is not there and never will be there and do not expect there ever to be any...
The astral diamond set up is extremely difficult to acquire the diamonds with out extreme time on farming and then you have to wait 1 hour and 15 hours to try and get another opportunity to acquire them.
In short the game dynamics are designed for short term and minimal investment to acquire as maximum of a financial gain for little or no investment, that is the corporate design paradigms I see here in Neverwinter.
My point is simple. See the game for what the game is a short term investment with little to no future if they maintain the course they are currently on with Neverwinter's Design.
This has been plaguing people who play F2P games since the idea was born. Emphasis on PWE's game's (since they technically pioneered the idea).
Do not get me wrong the idea of a f2p game with this level of graphical detail and the dodge ability is great but that is the only high points to it.
A easily understandable comparison's.
(F2P's GAMES in general)= 1 star fast food restaurant: Mc'Donalds fast food low price bad for the body in and out done.<==<< Low cost, and low quality and very little in return to the customer for their investment but <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
(Neverwinter if they get their stuff together, and WOW Game)= 3 star restaurant Martha's Italian Bistro, Medium food prep time, Decent quality great for the body, time to sit and talk with friends and or family. But some mild discomfort but still good for some relaxation and having a good time with family and or business associates.<==<< Middle to high quality environment, middle to high quality food, and a fairly balanced quality returned to the customer for their investment.
(Everquest and other not free to play game's)= 5 Star restaurant Gentlemens choice Slow cook times high quality foods, cocktails, wine or top shelf liquors. Very good for your body high price, high yields, and high investment on the restaurant owners part. They push for a conducive environment that promotes the leisurely business's meeting's or top quality family time while enjoying their stay.<==<<< High quality environment, Middle to high cost on food, High quality of service and there is high quality being returned to the customer for their investment.
F2P Business design: Take advantage of the economical instability plaguing the countries and capitalise as much as they can with out spending large amounts of the sponsorship's capital.