This is your point of view, for moment I can't kill skilled and good geared GF and skilled and good geared TR on hit-and-run. Vs Sentinel is easy who start first with takedown he win in most situations. At moment I lose only one time from Sentinel but he was on 5-10% HP after each battle finish and I suppose he was with very high GS till I was ~10k.
About WMS it is usable in PVP vs GF because WMS hit him in back so I do dmg on him when he is on block.
So as I said all is about play style. If you want high DPS on Destroyer and sacrifice HP you must have skills to survive. With 0 life steal and low HP is really fun to play
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faiteaccompliiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2
edited October 2013
I play a DC and a CW and I don't find GWF to be OP, some are sure, but so are some of each class. In general they are not hard to kill , the sentinel build are but not if you get a couple of you and do it right. There are some players who are always going to be so good that they are very difficult to kill and those players probably deserve that privilege as they work hard to get it.
Not sure why people think GWF are OP . I hate GF far more with the thing where they throw you around like a rag doll for a while, I finally have my DC to where she can survive that most the time But sure was hard at first.
Adapt to each class and learn to play against them. Even if it includes just running away or running them to your team.
Right now, Destroyers are mainly PvE builds, made to dish out the best AoE damage from the class. Basically, in PvP the play style should be staying in a Group, sprinting out to take down 1 target and using Unstoppable to survive, then retreat. Looking at higher GS destro builds, you can get to 37-39% crit chance (after 32-33%, critical scales really bad to me), then they get ArP at 24% overall and start stacking power.
Huh ?
Destroyer is very good in 1vs1 in arena as he is good in mele...
Idk why you need 24% ArP after you have Student of the Sword ... you can't make target on -Def so after 45% lower def your ArP get that target have so 10-15% ArP are enough.
And more crit rate more DPS, fast land on Student of the Sword so as I said we need more Crit Rate !
Its not hard to FF a GWF down 2v1 and time your damage well. The issue is that the mechanic offers them a large 1v1 advantage in a game consisting of hold the point.
Also a Max geared GWF is going to be one that uses Teneb enchants and more than likely Roar. I have not met 1 CW yet that could beat me in a 1v1 on my GWF. I have had CWs try and they can last 45sec-1 min but the result is the same.
I have not faced a GTE CW though so it may be different.
Now when you say GWF vs GWF on back point, then that you come to 2v1 the GWF, the fight doesnt last more than 30 seconds, I completely agree. So.. your saying?
Im not saying it cant be done. Im simple agreeing with Lantiss, he said it really well...
The mechanic allows bad GWFs to make macro mistakes and get away with it. Its not a "skill" based move its a HUGE crutch for the class.
What I would like to see is more skill factor involved where played optimally the class can excel VERY well still, however it actually requiring skill to use, rather a GWf is now a 1 trick pony that basically is 100% reliant upon gear and unstoppable.
But with this logic once you nerf the GWF then the regen build GF would be the tankiest and their new role would be the back capper b/c they are the best at 1v1, so then nerf them too? You are saying that if one class is clearly the best in a 1v1 situation then they should be nerfed, but there will always be a tankiest class and that class will be used to back cap for that reason.
What I was saying is that while a GWF vs GWF 1v1 lasts forever once a team member dies or you have 2 secured 1 player can rush back to home base, kill opposing GWF in 10-20 seconds and come back to mid, it's not hard. Also TR can 1v1 Sent GWF at back point as well.
Yes they take a long time to die 1v1, they are the tankiest class in the game and you forfeit a great deal of damage to be that tanky and that is their role. Let them fill that role please...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
But with this logic once you nerf the GWF then the regen build GF would be the tankiest and their new role would be the back capper b/c they are the best at 1v1, so then nerf them too? You are saying that if one class is clearly the best in a 1v1 situation then they should be nerfed, but there will always be a tankiest class and that class will be used to back cap for that reason.
What I was saying is that while a GWF vs GWF 1v1 lasts forever once a team member dies or you have 2 secured 1 player can rush back to home base, kill opposing GWF in 10-20 seconds and come back to mid, it's not hard. Also TR can 1v1 Sent GWF at back point as well.
Yes they take a long time to die 1v1, they are the tankiest class in the game and you forfeit a great deal of damage to be that tanky and that is their role. Let them fill that role please...
Here's another argument against the 'overpowered' performance of sentinel GWF's ...
If they have a GF guarding their home cap, and you sent your GWF to back-cap, it's a moot battle. Why? Without tene's, that one GWF cannot TAKE a defended position from the enemy, either, all skill being equal. The best he can do is stop the point transfer.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
But with this logic once you nerf the GWF then the regen build GF would be the tankiest and their new role would be the back capper b/c they are the best at 1v1, so then nerf them too? You are saying that if one class is clearly the best in a 1v1 situation then they should be nerfed, but there will always be a tankiest class and that class will be used to back cap for that reason.
What I was saying is that while a GWF vs GWF 1v1 lasts forever once a team member dies or you have 2 secured 1 player can rush back to home base, kill opposing GWF in 10-20 seconds and come back to mid, it's not hard. Also TR can 1v1 Sent GWF at back point as well.
Yes they take a long time to die 1v1, they are the tankiest class in the game and you forfeit a great deal of damage to be that tanky and that is their role. Let them fill that role please...
My big question: Do we need or want "That Roll" in pvp? Seems like it only came about because of cheesebuilds that cuased premade pvp to change completely!
Here is the big difference that you dont understand about GWF versus GF, and its nothing against you, but have you TRIED a Regen Sent GWf and have you TRIED also playing a regen GF? Do you know the big difference?
I have played BOTH classes and I can tell you the GF falls short by a long margin in its ability to backcap in comparison to a GWF.
As it is now, a Regen GWF can do a VERY good job backcapping against ANY class ANY spec and is even better at it with tene enchants. The only class that can counter the GWF at all is a GF because its its perma prone ability and at best, youll get a tie where it never ends 1v1 and the GF can snatch a few points here and there because of its prones. Any other class CAN kite around and survive but wont contest the point 100% and wont be able to kill a GOOD GWF 1v1.
A CW has to kite the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the GWF and it wont nullify the points he will get for standing on a point. A DC can hold its own since they can outheal the Sent DPS unless they have tene and again, must kite OFF the point. A TR is the same story, OFF point.
My suggestion I believe removes the "ultimate backcapper" and also regen nerf and tene affects the other runner up builds. This entirety would then create a game that revolves much more communication and skill to win than throwing a tanky Sent on far point and the rest fight at 2 with a few variations.
I would also contest the issue that GF would be the next best and say that a TR perma stealth is, Which again if you take all my feedback, and nerf lashing blade 100% chance to crit AND tenes, this build becomes more toothless and less effective. Also a regen nerf affects this ability as well as the GF regen build.
What you would then is (maybe) are DCs backcapping if you buff their self heals, but then again they dont have the damage or mobility to do it as effectively as GWFs can now and would be easy to send just 1 TR to kill the DC.
Overall, I am trying to promote diversity because there really isnt much.
Best pvp enchant regardless of class: Tene
Best GWF: Backcapper Sent
Best TR: Executioner/ perma stealth tene
Best GF: Conq with tene
Best CW: Therma with tene (Im not as versed here so I may be wrong on this one)
Best DC: Ahh who am I kidding they stuck no matter what (JK I know a few that are exceptionally good tho)
But the Sent GWF unstoppable change would make MORE viable builds and specs for GWFs and the OVERALL changes that I proposed would make pvp in total promote diversity.
The tene nerf makes other builds more viable for ALL classes.
The Regen nerf, again makes MORE viable specs and also makes a DC more desirable in pvp.
Huh ?
Destroyer is very good in 1vs1 in arena as he is good in mele...
Idk why you need 24% ArP after you have Student of the Sword ... you can't make target on -Def so after 45% lower def your ArP get that target have so 10-15% ArP are enough.
And more crit rate more DPS, fast land on Student of the Sword so as I said we need more Crit Rate !
Yeah, SoTS lowers the defense a lot, but it requires crit, as you said. And to get -45%, you need 3 crits. it happens sure, with crit rate usually between 33% and 38%, but it's not 100% of the times. So people usually, i think, stack ArP at 24% to have 0 DR on Mobs anytime (considering that you're the only GWF in the party, if there are more, it's more easy to keep the mob at 0 DR with SoTS).
In PvP, i would say this: usually, when you meet the enemy, you use your encounter. So no SoTS is applied, and no DR debuff. Also, even if you try to attack with sure strike at first, you have no 100% chance to crit 3 times and you're also delaying your encounters, which is not good if you ask me. So ArP gives you that advantage.
SoTS is very good but it does not guarantee for you to keep the enemy debuffed at -45% all the time. ArP is still needed to complement it, Imho. Crit does not scale very well after you reach the 2.3k score, from what i've seen. Going up to 4k or more barely gives you 5-6% more crit chance, while ArP scales very good (from 800 to 1.8k you gain 10% decrease in enemy DR. Going up still scales that good till i think 3k or more, giving you the ability to keep the enemy at low armor all the time. SoTS complements it and helps destroying GF/ Sentinels defense in long combat.
This is obviously my point of view, and may be i'm wrong, but I find it more useful than the 40 dmg gain per 1000 stat points of power, or the 5-6% per 2000 or more stat points of crit.
Destroyer in PvP domination must be played very carefully, and from what i've seen, it's damage buff is not that huge. 10% more damage on encounters, you get it with sentinels too since it's the 1st feat in destro tree. The rest is all about recovery and bleeding, and Destroyer purpose is not that useful if you ask me... Stacking power like a pro till 8k or more, you get a damage increase of about 40x5= 200. Which is good for sure. But at the cost of 5k stat points.
Also, i don't see a destroyer standing still long enough to land 3 crits with sure strike and then do his rotation. Would be dead by that time. More likely, you do your rotation first. Which means, at best, you get a -30% debuff for your last encounter and -15% for the second. If each encounter crits. You see, you'd still need ArP if you want to bring your enemy DR to 0.
Removal of Regen leaves only 1 build able to hold the back point for long periods of time, Perma-stealth TR. So if you want to see 2 of those on every team by all means go for it, but I personally think that takes a lot of fun out of the game.
There will always be the role of back capper no matter what changes balance wise, because you have to do it to win Domination PvP. It will either be the tankiest class or the class that can stay alive the longest (perma TR if regen is nerfed)
So whether or not you like that role or not isn't going to change the fact that someone has to fill it. You said you stopped playing your GWF b/c it was "too easy". You should bring it back out now that the servers are merged and play some premade vs. premade games, you will see very quickly that against good players they can die in seconds and are not overpowered.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Removal of Regen leaves only 1 build able to hold the back point for long periods of time, Perma-stealth TR. So if you want to see 2 of those on every team by all means go for it, but I personally think that takes a lot of fun out of the game.
There will always be the role of back capper no matter what changes balance wise, because you have to do it to win Domination PvP. It will either be the tankiest class or the class that can stay alive the longest (perma TR if regen is nerfed)
So whether or not you like that role or not isn't going to change the fact that someone has to fill it. You said you stopped playing your GWF b/c it was "too easy". You should bring it back out now that the servers are merged and play some premade vs. premade games, you will see very quickly that against good players they can die in seconds and are not overpowered.
Perma Stealth TRs are only really viable because of nice regen. Even if not, if they have to contest a point versus some1 the only good ones that can do it are tene and relly alot on their damage from tene and LB crits.
If you nerf tene like I said, nerf regen, and nerf lashingblade. Going perma stealth will lose alot of its benefits. Again if the class HAS to stay on the point to contest it, and it cant cheese tene somone to death and cant LB crit for 15k+ on command... Its not going to be as clear cut as you think.
Send a good player and I think itll be easier to counter than it is now. GO watch some TRs that run this setup and youll see it revolves heavily around tene damage, regen, and timing some nice LBs to finish targets off. Not to mention it cant stay on the point 24/7 like a Sent GWF can currently so its arguably not as effective in a pre vs pre. Ontop of that, moving a TR to backcap would seriously hurt the kill ability of the team. Sure a GWF could try and add some damage but no other class has that kind of burst on command and can go unseen like a TR.
I think your right in that you will always HAVE to backcap, and 1 person on the team is going to try and build specifically for that, however, I dont think it should be a clear cut "oh send the Sent" because its heads and shoulders above everyone else. What it should take is rotations that require more than 1 player to hold the point. Can they be FF down in 30 seconds? Sure they can. But then you have 4v3 at mid or worse, 3v2... THATS how you win games is forcing 2 people to go fight the sent or 2 people to fight the backcapper. Did you kill him? yes, well, he respawns in a few seconds then you gotta do it again and again and again.
Its no fun for the Sent and its no fun for the players fighting him. But right now its the best way to play so its almost required...
I wont bring my Sent back because I just swapped over all my enchants about 2-3 weeks ago back to my GF and It would cost me close to 2 mil+ to unsocket everything and put it back on him just for what?... Maybe down the road I will, but not now, we already have another GWF who plays Sent in our matches and we dont really have any GFs. Ill play pre vs pre on my GF and have just as much fun, actually probably more fun because GWF backcapping is SO boring to play.
If you nerf tene like I said, nerf regen, and nerf lashingblade. Going perma stealth will lose alot of its benefits. Again if the class HAS to stay on the point to contest it, and it cant cheese tene somone to death and cant LB crit for 15k+ on command... Its not going to be as clear cut as you think.
Lol "if you nerf everything in the game as I have proposed then perma TR won't work..." Are you serious dude?
First of all a good perma doesn't run LB, they rely solely on their tene's procced from at wills or plaguefire and the only time they aren't in stealth they're in ItC.
If you have to nerf tene, regen, TR's, GWF's, and by extension other classes that become imbalanced by this, then your idea is just dumb. PvP is balanced as is when gear and skill are equal, why would you change 20 different things just to make it balanced yet again but without regen, tene's, or builds that you don't like?
All effective builds = cheese is what I'm hearing. What about 20k Ice knife from 80 yards? What about unkillable DC 1v1? What about 15k Impact shot crits? What about GF prone juggle? What about... You could make a list a mile long of abilities that are strong enough to be considered "cheesy" but when you put everything together also remembering that the game is 5v5 it's really quite balanced as is.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Yeah, SoTS lowers the defense a lot, but it requires crit, as you said. And to get -45%, you need 3 crits. it happens sure, with crit rate usually between 33% and 38%, but it's not 100% of the times. So people usually, i think, stack ArP at 24% to have 0 DR on Mobs anytime (considering that you're the only GWF in the party, if there are more, it's more easy to keep the mob at 0 DR with SoTS).
In PvP, i would say this: usually, when you meet the enemy, you use your encounter. So no SoTS is applied, and no DR debuff. Also, even if you try to attack with sure strike at first, you have no 100% chance to crit 3 times and you're also delaying your encounters, which is not good if you ask me. So ArP gives you that advantage.
SoTS is very good but it does not guarantee for you to keep the enemy debuffed at -45% all the time. ArP is still needed to complement it, Imho. Crit does not scale very well after you reach the 2.3k score, from what i've seen. Going up to 4k or more barely gives you 5-6% more crit chance, while ArP scales very good (from 800 to 1.8k you gain 10% decrease in enemy DR. Going up still scales that good till i think 3k or more, giving you the ability to keep the enemy at low armor all the time. SoTS complements it and helps destroying GF/ Sentinels defense in long combat.
This is obviously my point of view, and may be i'm wrong, but I find it more useful than the 40 dmg gain per 1000 stat points of power, or the 5-6% per 2000 or more stat points of crit.
Destroyer in PvP domination must be played very carefully, and from what i've seen, it's damage buff is not that huge. 10% more damage on encounters, you get it with sentinels too since it's the 1st feat in destro tree. The rest is all about recovery and bleeding, and Destroyer purpose is not that useful if you ask me... Stacking power like a pro till 8k or more, you get a damage increase of about 40x5= 200. Which is good for sure. But at the cost of 5k stat points.
Also, i don't see a destroyer standing still long enough to land 3 crits with sure strike and then do his rotation. Would be dead by that time. More likely, you do your rotation first. Which means, at best, you get a -30% debuff for your last encounter and -15% for the second. If each encounter crits. You see, you'd still need ArP if you want to bring your enemy DR to 0.
My point of view/ calculations.
You can't count SotS as armor penetration. The tooltip is off. SotS is a straight 5% damage boost per stack for a total of 15% no matter what your opponents armor is. I was able to test this when restoring strike was bugged to put a stack of SotS on yourself. So it supports your point even more. Armor penetration is flat out good and SotS is another 15% damage even if your opponent is at 0% resistance.
Mindflayer - Exodus
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
Lol "if you nerf everything in the game as I have proposed then perma TR won't work..." Are you serious dude?
First of all a good perma doesn't run LB, they rely solely on their tene's procced from at wills or plaguefire and the only time they aren't in stealth they're in ItC.
If you have to nerf tene, regen, TR's, GWF's, and by extension other classes that become imbalanced by this, then your idea is just dumb. PvP is balanced as is when gear and skill are equal, why would you change 20 different things just to make it balanced yet again but without regen, tene's, or builds that you don't like?
All effective builds = cheese is what I'm hearing. What about 20k Ice knife from 80 yards? What about unkillable DC 1v1? What about 15k Impact shot crits? What about GF prone juggle? What about... You could make a list a mile long of abilities that are strong enough to be considered "cheesy" but when you put everything together also remembering that the game is 5v5 it's really quite balanced as is.
If you fix tene, then TRs will have to rely on different sources of damage to do good damage, this would then fall to LB as I have seen some use effectively. So dont blanket and say none use this, ive seen it and it was used well.
This game was never designed around balance in PVP and PVP was thrown in as an after thought, so if this game is going to excel in pvp, it will have to make some changes to make it meaningful. Its like a boat with holes, fix the holes and new ones pop up, This is my attempt to stop new holes from popping up by logically thinking through the next issues that come as a result of 1 change. Sometimes it takes a few changes to make a difference.
has nothing to do with builds I dont like but builds that cause big ripple effects in pvp that cause players to leave matches within 2 minutes because they get rolled because a player runs all Tenebs on a GWF Sent and kills them in 3 seconds.
Effective is based on your interpretation. 20k IK crits - thats a daily that is based on crit chance and no deflecting. Its not 100% itll crit and its not 100% it wont get deflected. Every class has nice dailies that can do amazing damage. Some more than others.
15k impact shots only happen during lurkers or with other debuffs applied. On dummies with a perf vorpal in stealth I can get about 10-12k if memory serves right. I canget up to 15k with lurkers which my changes to making 3 impacts total NOT 6 effects this. Again, its not 100% crit and its not 100% it wont deflect and requires significant buffs or debuffs to do. Unkillable DC 1v1? Well they ARE healers and I havnt even seen an unkillable DC and have fought the best.. Maybe if your a Sent GWF itll be hard, but hey should the class that can heal itself be the hardest to kill? It also does the worse damage on average though...
Actually the game is FAR from balanced and thats my point. The SOLE reason people say you must play rainbow comp in tournys is because of that exact point... Its NOT balanced. When you have 2 teams that are playing the best setups with the best gear, you have balance, because its a mimic. Its not fun and things like teneb enchants ROLL people with NO effort or skill who even have good gear themselves.
things like that are called "game breaking" mechanics for a reason. It sucks the fun and competition out of games like this, and if PVP is really going to be strong in this game (which it easily can be) it has to be balanced alot better. gear should make a difference but when 1 enchant is what makes ALL the difference, or if 1 special GWF build is either a make or break in a 5 man team... Thats a sign its a little too OP.
My buddy with P. vorpal has hit for 57k on a player with Ice knife, my average is 25k on anything but a GWF/GF and that's with no vorpal. You can in fact have 100% crit chance as you just wait for eye of the storm to proc (100% crit chance for 4 seconds)
TR's hit 15k Impact shots on all classes except GWF/GF easily, can even do that with greater vorpal, and they generally have around 50% crit. And yes I'm talking without lurkers.
If you are fine with DC as is then DC will be the one that is the new back capper. DC is even harder to bring down 1v2 than a GWF, they can keep pushing you away with sunburst and can dodge abilities etc.
You need to participate in some top tier PvP with equal gear and you will see the balance. Equal gear + Equal skill makes extremely balanced matches. Even with an imbalanced team comp (We were running 1 of each class and other team had 2 Sent GWF, 2 TR's and DC) we had a 65 minute game on PTR. Everyone in that game was fully geared, BiS everything.
According to your logic (TR and GWF + tene's = OP) they should have steamrolled us. After the extremely slow 65 minute game we came out ahead 1000-980 or so. Their GWF's had perfect lifedrinker and perfect bloodtheft btw.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You can't count SotS as armor penetration. The tooltip is off. SotS is a straight 5% damage boost per stack for a total of 15% no matter what your opponents armor is. I was able to test this when restoring strike was bugged to put a stack of SotS on yourself. So it supports your point even more. Armor penetration is flat out good and SotS is another 15% damage even if your opponent is at 0% resistance.
My buddy with P. vorpal has hit for 57k on a player with Ice knife, my average is 25k on anything but a GWF/GF and that's with no vorpal. You can in fact have 100% crit chance as you just wait for eye of the storm to proc (100% crit chance for 4 seconds)
TR's hit 15k Impact shots on all classes except GWF/GF easily, can even do that with greater vorpal, and they generally have around 50% crit. And yes I'm talking without lurkers.
If you are fine with DC as is then DC will be the one that is the new back capper. DC is even harder to bring down 1v2 than a GWF, they can keep pushing you away with sunburst and can dodge abilities etc.
You need to participate in some top tier PvP with equal gear and you will see the balance. Equal gear + Equal skill makes extremely balanced matches. Even with an imbalanced team comp (We were running 1 of each class and other team had 2 Sent GWF, 2 TR's and DC) we had a 65 minute game on PTR. Everyone in that game was fully geared, BiS everything.
According to your logic (TR and GWF + tene's = OP) they should have steamrolled us. After the extremely slow 65 minute game we came out ahead 1000-980 or so. Their GWF's had perfect lifedrinker and perfect bloodtheft btw.
I just fought a perma stealth/Regen TR and when you think you are about to go for the kill they are gone and next time you see them they are full health, and i tell you, it's #<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>@# frustrating. So all those fkng crying for GWF nerf, think again, either you l2p or fkng gear up. LOL.
And bytheway, i can add i fought a CW too, LOL and i barely killed him and took me long time to do it too (**** ice knife popping like crazy), this Server merge is good bringing good players in one Server. Just kinda surprise a CW has dare to 1 on 1 a sent gwf and almost got away with it. LOL.
My buddy with P. vorpal has hit for 57k on a player with Ice knife, my average is 25k on anything but a GWF/GF and that's with no vorpal. You can in fact have 100% crit chance as you just wait for eye of the storm to proc (100% crit chance for 4 seconds)
TR's hit 15k Impact shots on all classes except GWF/GF easily, can even do that with greater vorpal, and they generally have around 50% crit. And yes I'm talking without lurkers.
If you are fine with DC as is then DC will be the one that is the new back capper. DC is even harder to bring down 1v2 than a GWF, they can keep pushing you away with sunburst and can dodge abilities etc.
You need to participate in some top tier PvP with equal gear and you will see the balance. Equal gear + Equal skill makes extremely balanced matches. Even with an imbalanced team comp (We were running 1 of each class and other team had 2 Sent GWF, 2 TR's and DC) we had a 65 minute game on PTR. Everyone in that game was fully geared, BiS everything.
According to your logic (TR and GWF + tene's = OP) they should have steamrolled us. After the extremely slow 65 minute game we came out ahead 1000-980 or so. Their GWF's had perfect lifedrinker and perfect bloodtheft btw.
Dude do you ever run the math? Go to a dummy and play around with IK crits... They have 0% DR with any real arp levels ( I think like 8% so not mcuh arp required to take it to zero. Then see your IK crits. That is with NO debuffs. Now when you introduce debuffs which alot of CWs have, you can do the math to figure out the maximum potential crit on a player at optimal conditions.
I am just GUESSING here that 57k was with a TON of HV stacks and some other debuff enchants like PF or gwf SoTS... Well HV will get fixed to hopefully a max of 3 stacks as its intended, like I suggested...
I wont say its not a very strong ability, but its not even close to the OPness of shocking execution on a TR.
I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for you to post me a video of a TR doing 15k without Lurkers, again unless its someone with severe debuffs on them, which if they have those debuffs it means 2 ppl are on them, and them doing 12 or 15k on an impact, they are gonna drop just as fast... It just ends up being overkill, like SE, or IK.
- to clarify this, I have a TR with BIS gear and a perf vorp and rarely see IS numbers of even 12k, you can even go watch my TR video to see this. A typical is about 10k crits and this is exactly why I proposed changing the charges to 3 in stealth and 3 out to just 3 total. This reduces the total IS damage a TR has at his disposal.
To say a TR with a greater can get 15k IS crits is like saying its common for a CW to get 30k Icy Ray crits... Its not common and thats the point, its rare and requires debuffs and setup and doesnt happen that often... So dont act like its normal and "on command" and "anyone can do it" because its not even close to that. The ability shouldnt have 6 total charges, it should be 3. It ALSO should do more damage the close you are to a target and less the further away, no reason to make ranged TRs... But im guessing youll flame about that too since any deviation from the game as it is now, causes you to blow up.
The difference with DCs is that they ARe a healing class and also if they spec for survival, they do almost no damage in pvp, unless rolling with tene enchants. They have real no mechanic like block/stealth/unstoppable to mitigate large amounts of damage on command. They have a "blink" just like CWs but thats about it. Its also easy as a TR to time your lashings or a GF to time your perma prones against a DC and kill them. I also dont play one and therefore cant tell you how to balance the class as it is.
About participating in "top tier pvp" you obviously think your head and shoulders above me since you are talking down to me. I look forward to our match, and I also think its funny my guild already beat a premade from your guild and we had a 7k PUG tr if I remember right... What guilds are "top tier" that you think I need to play? Because the only guild I have yet to play is yours, some guildies (not even our A team) already beat a pre from your guild, The only guild that has beaten out A team is lemonade stand which remain undefeated still...
tell me who is "top tier" man cause id LOVE to know who your talking about that I have yet to face, because ive pretty much seen it all....
And you have it backwards.
According to my logic, Tene+regen+broken abusable class mechanics most easily abused in PVP = TR+GWF's stealth and unstoppable.
In order to make pvp more balanced and require more skill as a team to win, I am suggesting to change some of the mechanics of PVP.
1) Teneb enchants = widely acknowledged as OP
2) Regen - most people agree this stat is one of the biggest issues with this game in pvp
3) as a side effect of the first two, the two classes that can abuse those two mechanics the worst are GWF/TR.
You honestly wouldnt even need to tweak GWF Sents if you change tene and regen, but how do you change regen and have it not be breaking it for pve and other classes?
Im not saying my way is the only way, Im merely throwing out suggestions in an attempt to talk about possible solutions to balancing out pvp. I dont care if people dont agree, but apparently you are very intolerant of others views especially views that you dont agree with.
Not again, this oh so - important wall of text guy... can't you just stay quiet? You are annoying us all.
You are STILL trying to tell us, that because roughly 2% of the entire playerbase runs bobbie-builds the other 98% have to suffer? Stop being so self centered, you are not more important than anybody else is. Not everybody has tenebrous easy mode builds, got it? Yet everybody has regen, you have to be a complete narcist to even consider mentioning such a stupid suggestion.
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
― Issac Asimov
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
― Issac Asimov
Sorry, but the only ignorant person here is you.
0
jeffro9000Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 121Bounty Hunter
edited October 2013
I have a destroyer GWF who is viewed as gimped in PVP because of her lack of HP/regen/lifesteal.
Destroyers do 10% more damage when unstoppable and also gain determination from dealing damage as well as receiving it. Yet this is the build that is "****" and "gimped." If it was the unstoppable ability alone that was imba, destroyers should be even more infuriating than sentinels, yet they are not.
Unstoppable is not the problem, I agree. It is the stacking of lifesteal, regen, and HP (in combination with feats) that make the sentinel GWF overpowered in PVP.
Unstoppable by itself is not enough to become "immortal," it is just the easiest thing for people to point to who do not understand the class after they have been rolled by a geared sentinel in PVP.
btw sentinel is not op at all i never ever run on gwf who is problem to kill for me+1more cw or tr think unstoppable nerfs would not help ppl who blame it they would be still stomped by sentinel since they do not know to play or they do pvp in green gear
IF anything, the GWF needs a buff. Whoever says otherwise doesn't know wth they are doing.
A cw really should not complain about anything, at all. The class is a skillless/easy mode.
And this is, how the story ends. I'd drop the occasional L2P phrase now, if it was worth my effort.
P.S. the majority of complainers are fresh lvl 60, trying to kill seasoned players. (look at the join dates) :rolleyes:
Its pretty clear you have no idea what your talking about. Especially when arguably one of the best players in this game period says,
but that gwf was easy I didn't even bother making my shots count i had full confidence i will eventually kill him, he ran wrong powers and had bad movement, typical with alot of gwfs.
I predicted gwfs will be the new QQ class back when people were discussing about rogue nerfs, if two equally skilled players meet, the GWF should always come on top, I look at unstoppable as ITC for rogue, and having ITC up every few secs is ridiculous, there should be some cooldown on that, gwfs should make unstoppable count and time their combos like the rest of the classes, instead they are just allowed to make tons of macro mistakes and get away with it.
there is no class at the moment that can sustain burst from 2 players at the top level, simply none. but at 1v1 gwf has the upper hand since we are talking about domination which forces you to stay near their swing range.
Its pretty clear you have no idea what your talking about. Especially when arguably one of the best players in this game period says,
Not every person in this game has perfect enchantments.
One cannot achieve balance, by taking the few people with perfect everything as an indicator.
All it would cause is frustration amongst the honest and/or non paying customers/gamers.
You, aswell as i know the real and only problem pvp in this game is suffering from, > tenebrous enchantments. But regen/hp without said gems is not that big of a threat to anything. Besides, the regen we have nowadays is in fact the totally overnerfed version already.
GWFs shouldn't be allowed to use regen gear
that's what makes it WAY unfair
You can give TRs and CWs a ton of regen, but a single encounter or even at will strike can erase everything they just gained in a second and one and 2 hit them
but with a GWF.... imagine a normal melee fight that takes 40sec - 1min against a GWF. now imagine how many regen ticks they get during this time. and then trying to do this damage all over again but all your hits are dramatically reduced because of their defensive abilities. A TR or CW need to regen 6k health to equal a GWF that regens 1k health
Regen effectiveness should be reduced dramatically on GWFs since the stat is much more effective for them than other classes
Its not an issue of regen being overpowered or other classes simply going out to grab some regen as well. its more that extremely defensive characters shouldn't be allowed such great healing capabilities. Its one thing to talk about balance, its another thing to feel like your a lvl 50character trying to kill a lvl 60
GWFs shouldn't be allowed to use regen gear
that's what makes it WAY unfair
You can give TRs and CWs a ton of regen, but a single encounter or even at will strike can erase everything they just gained in a second and one and 2 hit them
but with a GWF.... imagine a normal melee fight that takes 40sec - 1min against a GWF. now imagine how many regen ticks they get during this time. and then trying to do this damage all over again but all your hits are dramatically reduced because of their defensive abilities. when a GWF regens 1k health its like a TR that regens 5k health
Regen effectiveness should be reduced dramatically on GWFs since the stat is a least 5 times as effective for them as other classes
regen-sent GWF dmg is so huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge
/sarcasm off
Comments
About WMS it is usable in PVP vs GF because WMS hit him in back so I do dmg on him when he is on block.
So as I said all is about play style. If you want high DPS on Destroyer and sacrifice HP you must have skills to survive. With 0 life steal and low HP is really fun to play
Not sure why people think GWF are OP . I hate GF far more with the thing where they throw you around like a rag doll for a while, I finally have my DC to where she can survive that most the time
Adapt to each class and learn to play against them. Even if it includes just running away or running them to your team.
Huh ?
Destroyer is very good in 1vs1 in arena as he is good in mele...
Idk why you need 24% ArP after you have Student of the Sword ... you can't make target on -Def so after 45% lower def your ArP get that target have so 10-15% ArP are enough.
And more crit rate more DPS, fast land on Student of the Sword so as I said we need more Crit Rate !
But with this logic once you nerf the GWF then the regen build GF would be the tankiest and their new role would be the back capper b/c they are the best at 1v1, so then nerf them too? You are saying that if one class is clearly the best in a 1v1 situation then they should be nerfed, but there will always be a tankiest class and that class will be used to back cap for that reason.
What I was saying is that while a GWF vs GWF 1v1 lasts forever once a team member dies or you have 2 secured 1 player can rush back to home base, kill opposing GWF in 10-20 seconds and come back to mid, it's not hard. Also TR can 1v1 Sent GWF at back point as well.
Yes they take a long time to die 1v1, they are the tankiest class in the game and you forfeit a great deal of damage to be that tanky and that is their role. Let them fill that role please...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Not getting it.
Here's another argument against the 'overpowered' performance of sentinel GWF's ...
If they have a GF guarding their home cap, and you sent your GWF to back-cap, it's a moot battle. Why? Without tene's, that one GWF cannot TAKE a defended position from the enemy, either, all skill being equal. The best he can do is stop the point transfer.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
My big question: Do we need or want "That Roll" in pvp? Seems like it only came about because of cheesebuilds that cuased premade pvp to change completely!
Here is the big difference that you dont understand about GWF versus GF, and its nothing against you, but have you TRIED a Regen Sent GWf and have you TRIED also playing a regen GF? Do you know the big difference?
I have played BOTH classes and I can tell you the GF falls short by a long margin in its ability to backcap in comparison to a GWF.
As it is now, a Regen GWF can do a VERY good job backcapping against ANY class ANY spec and is even better at it with tene enchants. The only class that can counter the GWF at all is a GF because its its perma prone ability and at best, youll get a tie where it never ends 1v1 and the GF can snatch a few points here and there because of its prones. Any other class CAN kite around and survive but wont contest the point 100% and wont be able to kill a GOOD GWF 1v1.
A CW has to kite the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of the GWF and it wont nullify the points he will get for standing on a point. A DC can hold its own since they can outheal the Sent DPS unless they have tene and again, must kite OFF the point. A TR is the same story, OFF point.
My suggestion I believe removes the "ultimate backcapper" and also regen nerf and tene affects the other runner up builds. This entirety would then create a game that revolves much more communication and skill to win than throwing a tanky Sent on far point and the rest fight at 2 with a few variations.
I would also contest the issue that GF would be the next best and say that a TR perma stealth is, Which again if you take all my feedback, and nerf lashing blade 100% chance to crit AND tenes, this build becomes more toothless and less effective. Also a regen nerf affects this ability as well as the GF regen build.
What you would then is (maybe) are DCs backcapping if you buff their self heals, but then again they dont have the damage or mobility to do it as effectively as GWFs can now and would be easy to send just 1 TR to kill the DC.
Overall, I am trying to promote diversity because there really isnt much.
Best pvp enchant regardless of class: Tene
Best GWF: Backcapper Sent
Best TR: Executioner/ perma stealth tene
Best GF: Conq with tene
Best CW: Therma with tene (Im not as versed here so I may be wrong on this one)
Best DC: Ahh who am I kidding they stuck no matter what (JK I know a few that are exceptionally good tho)
But the Sent GWF unstoppable change would make MORE viable builds and specs for GWFs and the OVERALL changes that I proposed would make pvp in total promote diversity.
The tene nerf makes other builds more viable for ALL classes.
The Regen nerf, again makes MORE viable specs and also makes a DC more desirable in pvp.
Yeah, SoTS lowers the defense a lot, but it requires crit, as you said. And to get -45%, you need 3 crits. it happens sure, with crit rate usually between 33% and 38%, but it's not 100% of the times. So people usually, i think, stack ArP at 24% to have 0 DR on Mobs anytime (considering that you're the only GWF in the party, if there are more, it's more easy to keep the mob at 0 DR with SoTS).
In PvP, i would say this: usually, when you meet the enemy, you use your encounter. So no SoTS is applied, and no DR debuff. Also, even if you try to attack with sure strike at first, you have no 100% chance to crit 3 times and you're also delaying your encounters, which is not good if you ask me. So ArP gives you that advantage.
SoTS is very good but it does not guarantee for you to keep the enemy debuffed at -45% all the time. ArP is still needed to complement it, Imho. Crit does not scale very well after you reach the 2.3k score, from what i've seen. Going up to 4k or more barely gives you 5-6% more crit chance, while ArP scales very good (from 800 to 1.8k you gain 10% decrease in enemy DR. Going up still scales that good till i think 3k or more, giving you the ability to keep the enemy at low armor all the time. SoTS complements it and helps destroying GF/ Sentinels defense in long combat.
This is obviously my point of view, and may be i'm wrong, but I find it more useful than the 40 dmg gain per 1000 stat points of power, or the 5-6% per 2000 or more stat points of crit.
Destroyer in PvP domination must be played very carefully, and from what i've seen, it's damage buff is not that huge. 10% more damage on encounters, you get it with sentinels too since it's the 1st feat in destro tree. The rest is all about recovery and bleeding, and Destroyer purpose is not that useful if you ask me... Stacking power like a pro till 8k or more, you get a damage increase of about 40x5= 200. Which is good for sure. But at the cost of 5k stat points.
Also, i don't see a destroyer standing still long enough to land 3 crits with sure strike and then do his rotation. Would be dead by that time. More likely, you do your rotation first. Which means, at best, you get a -30% debuff for your last encounter and -15% for the second. If each encounter crits. You see, you'd still need ArP if you want to bring your enemy DR to 0.
My point of view/ calculations.
Removal of Regen leaves only 1 build able to hold the back point for long periods of time, Perma-stealth TR. So if you want to see 2 of those on every team by all means go for it, but I personally think that takes a lot of fun out of the game.
There will always be the role of back capper no matter what changes balance wise, because you have to do it to win Domination PvP. It will either be the tankiest class or the class that can stay alive the longest (perma TR if regen is nerfed)
So whether or not you like that role or not isn't going to change the fact that someone has to fill it. You said you stopped playing your GWF b/c it was "too easy". You should bring it back out now that the servers are merged and play some premade vs. premade games, you will see very quickly that against good players they can die in seconds and are not overpowered.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Perma Stealth TRs are only really viable because of nice regen. Even if not, if they have to contest a point versus some1 the only good ones that can do it are tene and relly alot on their damage from tene and LB crits.
If you nerf tene like I said, nerf regen, and nerf lashingblade. Going perma stealth will lose alot of its benefits. Again if the class HAS to stay on the point to contest it, and it cant cheese tene somone to death and cant LB crit for 15k+ on command... Its not going to be as clear cut as you think.
Send a good player and I think itll be easier to counter than it is now. GO watch some TRs that run this setup and youll see it revolves heavily around tene damage, regen, and timing some nice LBs to finish targets off. Not to mention it cant stay on the point 24/7 like a Sent GWF can currently so its arguably not as effective in a pre vs pre. Ontop of that, moving a TR to backcap would seriously hurt the kill ability of the team. Sure a GWF could try and add some damage but no other class has that kind of burst on command and can go unseen like a TR.
I think your right in that you will always HAVE to backcap, and 1 person on the team is going to try and build specifically for that, however, I dont think it should be a clear cut "oh send the Sent" because its heads and shoulders above everyone else. What it should take is rotations that require more than 1 player to hold the point. Can they be FF down in 30 seconds? Sure they can. But then you have 4v3 at mid or worse, 3v2... THATS how you win games is forcing 2 people to go fight the sent or 2 people to fight the backcapper. Did you kill him? yes, well, he respawns in a few seconds then you gotta do it again and again and again.
Its no fun for the Sent and its no fun for the players fighting him. But right now its the best way to play so its almost required...
I wont bring my Sent back because I just swapped over all my enchants about 2-3 weeks ago back to my GF and It would cost me close to 2 mil+ to unsocket everything and put it back on him just for what?... Maybe down the road I will, but not now, we already have another GWF who plays Sent in our matches and we dont really have any GFs. Ill play pre vs pre on my GF and have just as much fun, actually probably more fun because GWF backcapping is SO boring to play.
Lol "if you nerf everything in the game as I have proposed then perma TR won't work..." Are you serious dude?
First of all a good perma doesn't run LB, they rely solely on their tene's procced from at wills or plaguefire and the only time they aren't in stealth they're in ItC.
If you have to nerf tene, regen, TR's, GWF's, and by extension other classes that become imbalanced by this, then your idea is just dumb. PvP is balanced as is when gear and skill are equal, why would you change 20 different things just to make it balanced yet again but without regen, tene's, or builds that you don't like?
All effective builds = cheese is what I'm hearing. What about 20k Ice knife from 80 yards? What about unkillable DC 1v1? What about 15k Impact shot crits? What about GF prone juggle? What about... You could make a list a mile long of abilities that are strong enough to be considered "cheesy" but when you put everything together also remembering that the game is 5v5 it's really quite balanced as is.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
You can't count SotS as armor penetration. The tooltip is off. SotS is a straight 5% damage boost per stack for a total of 15% no matter what your opponents armor is. I was able to test this when restoring strike was bugged to put a stack of SotS on yourself. So it supports your point even more. Armor penetration is flat out good and SotS is another 15% damage even if your opponent is at 0% resistance.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
If you fix tene, then TRs will have to rely on different sources of damage to do good damage, this would then fall to LB as I have seen some use effectively. So dont blanket and say none use this, ive seen it and it was used well.
This game was never designed around balance in PVP and PVP was thrown in as an after thought, so if this game is going to excel in pvp, it will have to make some changes to make it meaningful. Its like a boat with holes, fix the holes and new ones pop up, This is my attempt to stop new holes from popping up by logically thinking through the next issues that come as a result of 1 change. Sometimes it takes a few changes to make a difference.
has nothing to do with builds I dont like but builds that cause big ripple effects in pvp that cause players to leave matches within 2 minutes because they get rolled because a player runs all Tenebs on a GWF Sent and kills them in 3 seconds.
Effective is based on your interpretation. 20k IK crits - thats a daily that is based on crit chance and no deflecting. Its not 100% itll crit and its not 100% it wont get deflected. Every class has nice dailies that can do amazing damage. Some more than others.
15k impact shots only happen during lurkers or with other debuffs applied. On dummies with a perf vorpal in stealth I can get about 10-12k if memory serves right. I canget up to 15k with lurkers which my changes to making 3 impacts total NOT 6 effects this. Again, its not 100% crit and its not 100% it wont deflect and requires significant buffs or debuffs to do. Unkillable DC 1v1? Well they ARE healers and I havnt even seen an unkillable DC and have fought the best.. Maybe if your a Sent GWF itll be hard, but hey should the class that can heal itself be the hardest to kill? It also does the worse damage on average though...
Actually the game is FAR from balanced and thats my point. The SOLE reason people say you must play rainbow comp in tournys is because of that exact point... Its NOT balanced. When you have 2 teams that are playing the best setups with the best gear, you have balance, because its a mimic. Its not fun and things like teneb enchants ROLL people with NO effort or skill who even have good gear themselves.
things like that are called "game breaking" mechanics for a reason. It sucks the fun and competition out of games like this, and if PVP is really going to be strong in this game (which it easily can be) it has to be balanced alot better. gear should make a difference but when 1 enchant is what makes ALL the difference, or if 1 special GWF build is either a make or break in a 5 man team... Thats a sign its a little too OP.
TR's hit 15k Impact shots on all classes except GWF/GF easily, can even do that with greater vorpal, and they generally have around 50% crit. And yes I'm talking without lurkers.
If you are fine with DC as is then DC will be the one that is the new back capper. DC is even harder to bring down 1v2 than a GWF, they can keep pushing you away with sunburst and can dodge abilities etc.
You need to participate in some top tier PvP with equal gear and you will see the balance. Equal gear + Equal skill makes extremely balanced matches. Even with an imbalanced team comp (We were running 1 of each class and other team had 2 Sent GWF, 2 TR's and DC) we had a 65 minute game on PTR. Everyone in that game was fully geared, BiS everything.
According to your logic (TR and GWF + tene's = OP) they should have steamrolled us. After the extremely slow 65 minute game we came out ahead 1000-980 or so. Their GWF's had perfect lifedrinker and perfect bloodtheft btw.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
A Sent GWF back capping you? Not hard when you have two people hitting him on the way to mid. just say'n.
I would rather hit the GWF or a TR than the DC who is back capping.
Didn't notice that. Thanks so much for the info!!
I approve this msg!
And bytheway, i can add i fought a CW too, LOL and i barely killed him and took me long time to do it too (**** ice knife popping like crazy), this Server merge is good bringing good players in one Server. Just kinda surprise a CW has dare to 1 on 1 a sent gwf and almost got away with it. LOL.
Dude do you ever run the math? Go to a dummy and play around with IK crits... They have 0% DR with any real arp levels ( I think like 8% so not mcuh arp required to take it to zero. Then see your IK crits. That is with NO debuffs. Now when you introduce debuffs which alot of CWs have, you can do the math to figure out the maximum potential crit on a player at optimal conditions.
I am just GUESSING here that 57k was with a TON of HV stacks and some other debuff enchants like PF or gwf SoTS... Well HV will get fixed to hopefully a max of 3 stacks as its intended, like I suggested...
I wont say its not a very strong ability, but its not even close to the OPness of shocking execution on a TR.
I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for you to post me a video of a TR doing 15k without Lurkers, again unless its someone with severe debuffs on them, which if they have those debuffs it means 2 ppl are on them, and them doing 12 or 15k on an impact, they are gonna drop just as fast... It just ends up being overkill, like SE, or IK.
- to clarify this, I have a TR with BIS gear and a perf vorp and rarely see IS numbers of even 12k, you can even go watch my TR video to see this. A typical is about 10k crits and this is exactly why I proposed changing the charges to 3 in stealth and 3 out to just 3 total. This reduces the total IS damage a TR has at his disposal.
To say a TR with a greater can get 15k IS crits is like saying its common for a CW to get 30k Icy Ray crits... Its not common and thats the point, its rare and requires debuffs and setup and doesnt happen that often... So dont act like its normal and "on command" and "anyone can do it" because its not even close to that. The ability shouldnt have 6 total charges, it should be 3. It ALSO should do more damage the close you are to a target and less the further away, no reason to make ranged TRs... But im guessing youll flame about that too since any deviation from the game as it is now, causes you to blow up.
The difference with DCs is that they ARe a healing class and also if they spec for survival, they do almost no damage in pvp, unless rolling with tene enchants. They have real no mechanic like block/stealth/unstoppable to mitigate large amounts of damage on command. They have a "blink" just like CWs but thats about it. Its also easy as a TR to time your lashings or a GF to time your perma prones against a DC and kill them. I also dont play one and therefore cant tell you how to balance the class as it is.
About participating in "top tier pvp" you obviously think your head and shoulders above me since you are talking down to me. I look forward to our match, and I also think its funny my guild already beat a premade from your guild and we had a 7k PUG tr if I remember right... What guilds are "top tier" that you think I need to play? Because the only guild I have yet to play is yours, some guildies (not even our A team) already beat a pre from your guild, The only guild that has beaten out A team is lemonade stand which remain undefeated still...
tell me who is "top tier" man cause id LOVE to know who your talking about that I have yet to face, because ive pretty much seen it all....
And you have it backwards.
According to my logic, Tene+regen+broken abusable class mechanics most easily abused in PVP = TR+GWF's stealth and unstoppable.
In order to make pvp more balanced and require more skill as a team to win, I am suggesting to change some of the mechanics of PVP.
1) Teneb enchants = widely acknowledged as OP
2) Regen - most people agree this stat is one of the biggest issues with this game in pvp
3) as a side effect of the first two, the two classes that can abuse those two mechanics the worst are GWF/TR.
You honestly wouldnt even need to tweak GWF Sents if you change tene and regen, but how do you change regen and have it not be breaking it for pve and other classes?
Im not saying my way is the only way, Im merely throwing out suggestions in an attempt to talk about possible solutions to balancing out pvp. I dont care if people dont agree, but apparently you are very intolerant of others views especially views that you dont agree with.
/10chars.
― Issac Asimov
Sorry, but the only ignorant person here is you.
Destroyers do 10% more damage when unstoppable and also gain determination from dealing damage as well as receiving it. Yet this is the build that is "****" and "gimped." If it was the unstoppable ability alone that was imba, destroyers should be even more infuriating than sentinels, yet they are not.
Unstoppable is not the problem, I agree. It is the stacking of lifesteal, regen, and HP (in combination with feats) that make the sentinel GWF overpowered in PVP.
Unstoppable by itself is not enough to become "immortal," it is just the easiest thing for people to point to who do not understand the class after they have been rolled by a geared sentinel in PVP.
Jeffrina Jones, GWF
Jeffrodo, CW
Jeffrogue, Rog
Jelfro, GF
Jeffrogolas Do'Urden, HR
Jeffrodo Jaggins, SW
And what stops you, from equipping items with regen/hp steal/ hp boni? There are plenty of sets, that feature said stats. Rings necks/belts, aswell.
When this is what you said earlier
Its pretty clear you have no idea what your talking about. Especially when arguably one of the best players in this game period says,
Not every person in this game has perfect enchantments.
One cannot achieve balance, by taking the few people with perfect everything as an indicator.
All it would cause is frustration amongst the honest and/or non paying customers/gamers.
You, aswell as i know the real and only problem pvp in this game is suffering from, > tenebrous enchantments. But regen/hp without said gems is not that big of a threat to anything. Besides, the regen we have nowadays is in fact the totally overnerfed version already.
that's what makes it WAY unfair
You can give TRs and CWs a ton of regen, but a single encounter or even at will strike can erase everything they just gained in a second and one and 2 hit them
but with a GWF.... imagine a normal melee fight that takes 40sec - 1min against a GWF. now imagine how many regen ticks they get during this time. and then trying to do this damage all over again but all your hits are dramatically reduced because of their defensive abilities. A TR or CW need to regen 6k health to equal a GWF that regens 1k health
Regen effectiveness should be reduced dramatically on GWFs since the stat is much more effective for them than other classes
Its not an issue of regen being overpowered or other classes simply going out to grab some regen as well. its more that extremely defensive characters shouldn't be allowed such great healing capabilities. Its one thing to talk about balance, its another thing to feel like your a lvl 50character trying to kill a lvl 60
/sarcasm off