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Seeking explination of buy/sell zen in-game
syka08
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Okay, so this has baffled me for a while and I honestly cannot say I'm content with answers I've gotten on this, mostly that its GM controlled and not player controlled. And the "guide" to the buy/sell zen mechanism that Cryptic provided out-and-out sucked for trying to answer my question. So here goes.
The following is your typical buy screen
Which, really, is just the "for sale" screen, if I'm not mistaken, as it shows "the top" deals for sale to convert your AD into Zen. This i mostly understand. You see the deal you want, you click on it, you purchase what you want. Or, alternatively, you can make an offer, say 1000 zen for 331 each. (yes the image shows 100zen, just ignore that fact if you noticed please.)
When someone posts a sell for that price range, it gets filled and you get your Zen. This is what I have done and its been well over an hour and it hasn't gotten filled. Okay, no big. (and yeah, I realize that AD to Zen is going to be high on the AD side right now due to the key sale, most likely.)
But... wait. What about that Sell Zen side?
Weird... there is a TON of zen wanting to be sold at 331 diamonds each... and man, there's a lot of lower priced "WTS Zen" things here than on the "buy zen" screen which seems to be showing some high prices...
So help me out here. Am I over thinking this that the lowest "Sell Zen" offers should really be the top listed offers on the "Buy Zen" side? Clearly there are people wanting to sell Zen at a lower price than what is getting posted on the buy side. So... what gives?
The following is your typical buy screen
Which, really, is just the "for sale" screen, if I'm not mistaken, as it shows "the top" deals for sale to convert your AD into Zen. This i mostly understand. You see the deal you want, you click on it, you purchase what you want. Or, alternatively, you can make an offer, say 1000 zen for 331 each. (yes the image shows 100zen, just ignore that fact if you noticed please.)
When someone posts a sell for that price range, it gets filled and you get your Zen. This is what I have done and its been well over an hour and it hasn't gotten filled. Okay, no big. (and yeah, I realize that AD to Zen is going to be high on the AD side right now due to the key sale, most likely.)
But... wait. What about that Sell Zen side?
Weird... there is a TON of zen wanting to be sold at 331 diamonds each... and man, there's a lot of lower priced "WTS Zen" things here than on the "buy zen" screen which seems to be showing some high prices...
So help me out here. Am I over thinking this that the lowest "Sell Zen" offers should really be the top listed offers on the "Buy Zen" side? Clearly there are people wanting to sell Zen at a lower price than what is getting posted on the buy side. So... what gives?
contents to be decided
Post edited by syka08 on
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See the "Requested Quantity" column? That's the total of all the Zen that multiple Zen buyers desire to acquire at that particular "Offered" price.
So....if you have Zen you want to unload, you look at the "Sell Zen" tab to see what people are willing to pay for it.
If, however, you want to buy Zen, you look at the "Buy Zen" tab and see what Zen sellers are listing it for so you know if your desired asking price is within the realm of the current average and if you'll be able to get that Zen anytime soon. Or you make your own cheaper AD for Zen offer - which is what you did - and patiently wait for someone to actually list their Zen for that amount. Which could take forever.
You say "sell zen" is when you're looking to sell your that you currently have. Okay
You say "Buy zen" is when you're looking to buy zen people are trying to sell.
So then, how does one go about getting the price of the "buy zen" lowered? If, say, I had the AD to wipe out the entire top listings for the buy Zen, where do the new listings come from? Or would that be where my listing comes up that says I want to buy 1000 zen at 331 each?
The only way to lower the price of Zen, i.e. the price of Offers under Buy Zen would be by already having Zen and creating a better offer - which would list at a lower price in the Buy Zen screen.
As far as the listings go, that's just what they are....listings. If the best listing is 1 Zen for 300 AD and someone pops up a 1 for 250 offer then that's best. That would probably be snapped up pretty quickly and have zero impact on the overall average rate. Only if it sat there for a while and AD was the more valuable commodity would it affect the general exchange rate.
When Zen is in demand its much easier to raise the exchange rate. If new sellers just queue their Zen up behind the best offers and let the lower offers be bought then exchange rate rises.
Hope it helps!
Keep in mind that minor price changes are minor. That is, 1 AD per difference on 1000 is only 1000 diamonds --- one prayer session's worth, its not a lot in the grand scheme of things. So only for really big purchases or significant savings (10 per buying 1000 is 10k, that is starting to be enough savings to matter to an average player) is it worth waiting a week for an order to process... you have to make your own decisions here about how long you are willing to wait and how much you will pay.
The Listings tab, imo, should more accurately be 'My Listings' or 'My Activity' or 'My History'. It shows 1. your active offers and 2. the detail of what was done. So whatever you do you can see it there.
(In my case it usually only shows AD transfers between toons. It says which toon transfered from personal balance to exchange, which toon canceled and which toon transfered it from exchange balance to personal balance.)
When u want to Buy Zen but you want to buy it at a lower rate than that displayed in the Buy window, then, once you make your offer it will show in the Sell Zen window (if its in the top offers). eg. if Buy window lowest price is 328 ad per Zen but you want to buy 1000 zen at 327, once you post it your request for 1000 will be added to any other requests that also are offering 327 AD. That way people that want to Sell Zen can see the best active requests for Zen.
Its one of these things that can be confusing 'on paper' but once you get going its fine.
I have. I must have accidentally removed my comment on that from my draft while writing the post. Unfortunately, I found it to answer none of my questions as I'm trying to understand more of the engine behind it, than the interface. It also doesn't address the "Sell Zen" tab, and that is where I think the majority of my confusion is coming from, in how that (in my mind) is supposed to interact with the buy tab. But thank you ^_^.
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When I get home tonight I'll take another look at things, fiddle around, and then come back with a response. In the mean time, thank you everyone for your responses. But from what I think I'm getting, is that this system favors the seller over the buyer. That is to say, it would be more prudent to put my zen up for sale (I do have some, its in my wallet and what I did have I invested quite nicely into flipping keys, until everyone else caught on X3) at 1zen/337 ad in this particular example?
Otherwise I'm afraid I might be hopelessly lost, as I would have imagined that it would favor the buyer over the seller (like the AH does), thus driving DOWN prices. But, again, I'll keep poking at it tonight (eastern standard) and get back to this thread.
Zen fell when the transfer rewards event was going on because more people had Zen they were willing to sell. The current sale on keys means the price of Zen has risen, because people are buying Zen so they can buy keys.
It favours the seller in the respect that you will never be put in a position where you get less than you want for whatever you're offering. But the buyer doesn't have to pay more than they want either... they just might find themselves waiting a long time.
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SO I'm playing around with a zen at a time, just to try and see what I can do/make appear. And I think I get it now.
This may be hard for me to put into words, but I'll try.
So the buying tab is directly effected by the sales tab like I thought. Only, it can be really hard to notice the changes if things get snapped up quickly before my own side can show the interaction changes. Got it.
For instance, the lowest Zen price on the buy tab as I stare at the current value is 349 AD each. However, I was able to post a sale from the sell tab for 1 zen to sell for 344 AD and it shows up, for now.
So, I swap back over to Selling zen and see a conglomeration of 1005 zen that some amount of people want to sell for 337 AD. However, when I post an offer on the buy tab that I want to buy 10 Zen for 337 AD, it doesn't get filled (much like it wasn't last night) even though there is more than sufficient quantity sitting there waiting to be sold at that price.... Why is that?
edit: as a mater of fact, after I just posted that it droped from 1010 Zen to sell for 337 AD to 20 Zen to sell for 337 AD. I suppose someone could have just taken out their offer?
Second edit: Or... it could actually sell finally. Where last night with a much higher quanitity of zen it never sold. Hm... I wasn't paying attention tot he buy chart when it did sell, to see if something popped up in that price range or not. Either way, question stands, please ^_^
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As for monitoring the economics and such, yeah, I understand finding the trends of rise and fall. And per an earlier post, I understand that it's really not that big of a difference in prices, in the long run, which is a good point, but I'd also argue that you do not want to get desensitized to paying the 5 - 10 AD higher prices as it eats at your bottom long small in the short run, larger int he long run.
Even though this isn't what I'm trying to understand, I do thank you all for the insights ^_^
Indeed - there are listings of what people are selling Zen FOR, and then there are listings of what people want to buy Zen AT. I can post a listing that I want to buy Zen for 50 AD a piece, but that in no way reflects what people are willing to sell their Zen for in the first place...
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Buy tab:
- shows listings of "real" Zen in the system
- whenever you create a listing here, you are submitting a Bid for one of the Zen listings at a specific price and quantity
- if the Bid matches with a shown listing, you get the Zen you bought in your account
- if the Bid does not match with a shown listing, your request for Zen appears in the Sell tab as a listing.
Sell tab:
- shows listings of requests for Zen
- whenever you create a listing here, you are submitting an Offer with Zen you own for one of the requests at a specific price and quantity
- if the Offer matches with a shown listing, you get the AD you sold your Zen for in your account
- if the Offer does not match with a shown listing, your Zen appears in the Buy tab as a listing.
Thus, given a market of 349 Buy tab / 337 Sell tab, your orders were:
1. Sell tab: Offer 1 Zen @ 344 AD.
- since, you were offering Zen at a lower (i.e. better) price than the market, it should have filled fast but probably did not because it was only 1 Zen. Not many people will bother to click on such a low quantity.
- so, on the Buy tab, a listing of 1 Zen @ 344 AD shows for a while.
2. Buy tab: Bid 10 Zen @ 337 AD.
- well, all you've done is join other requests for Zen at 337 AD. But the best available offer is at 349 AD.
- so, on the Sell tab, a listing requesting 10 Zen @ 337 AD shows for a while.
On your first order, not until someone gets bored and clicks to buy your 1 Zen from the Buy tab, will your listing disappear and you get your 344 AD.
On the second order, you are implicitly making a bet that the price of Zen will come down to 337 AD at some point in the future (I have no idea how long orders last in the system, but it may be permanently since your AD is at risk).
I honestly cannot make it any clearer than that.
Essentially, the two crisscross in their listings.
I list a deal I'd like to make. If there's no one wanting to sell at that rate, it cross over to the requested quantity under the sell zen tab for that AD/zen ratio. (I post I want to buy 10 zen for 343, the current listing on the sales side increments from 2326 zen to 2336 zen.)
If post my zen up for sale on the sell tab, it crosses over to the buy zen side as either its own unique listing if the price is different from what is listed currently (Assuming that I'm underselling and not over selling the highest listed price).
If this is correct, well, I've got some hardcore facepalming to do. If that wording doesn't make sense, I apologize, but I do now think I fully understand. Just doesn't fee right giving a thumbs up and just saying I got it ^^;.
As an attempt to save SOME face XD, the tool tip for "requested quantity" is the exact same for the buy zen "available quantity" in which they both read, when hovered over by the mouse "How many ZEN are available at this Astral Diamond price." Given there is no actual quantity available, that might need to be altered? It was something that added a slight bit of oncusion into my head, but not enough to justify all of this XD.