ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited September 2013
Spider boss in castle never, flamespikers, magma brutes, and lava masters knockback/knockdown attacks all ignore block.
At least the spider boss in castle never ignores Unstoppable as well. Haven't tested the others.
When I get around to it I'll run PK and check if the undead pirates and witches can still knock you back through block, but I think it's safe to say that they are also bugged.
Also Ray of Frost is the obvious wizard power that can freeze a guardian fighter even while he's blocking without dealing any damage to him.
[Perfect Elven Battle Enchantment] is also not working right on many ability and dose not seem to be working right may be look into this as your doing the cc
I think the fire giant boss's pull attack in the Battle for the Bridge skirmish also ignores Block. This attack is particularly nasty because he can spam it, and he pulls you into a red lava zone surrounding himself.
I have also noticed that the Lizardman Trapper's pull attack seems to ignore CC resistance. There might be a timing issue too, with not enough time between the red zone appearing and the attack.
Maybe off-topic, I have also noticed that when Winter Wolves in Icespire Peak make their initial frost breath attack, the red cone is pointed in the wrong direction.
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
IceSpire Peak: Hrimnir's axe smash and ground pillar
Icespire Peak: Grast Gutcruncher: Hammer smash can still knock you up (intentional?)
Icespire Peak: Enahnced Rimefire Golem: Charge/teleport attack can still knock you (intentional?)
Icespire Peak: Enahnced Rimefire Golem: Death explosion knocks you (intentional?)
Icespire Peak: Winter Wolf: Bite and throw attack can still throw you
Most of these may be correct, but I believe many of the player reports are incorrect because they don't seem to realise some boss attacks register as behind you if you remain still - thus don't get block if you just fight him normally and stand and block - but can be blocked if you back up while blocking to make sure the splat is consider infront of you. Especially true for all of Hrimnir's attacks pre module 1 - I haven''t tested him post Mod 1.
I'd also remove the (Intentional?) And replace it with (Powerfull boss kb partial effect). As it very much seems intented to get that partial kb while blocking on a GF - it adds an element of challenge to the game for guardians that seems quite appropriate. If you simply stood firm all the time while blocking, that'd be much too easy for whats meant to be a challenging tier 2 boss.
Spellplague Caverns: Plaguechanged Maw: His throw power cannot be fully blocked
Yea verified, even pre mod1. Applies to all other enemies that use this attack too. EG: Lizardman trappers. Though it's more clear to called it a "pull" attack.
[*]Malabog's Castle: First boss: Arm swing attack can still knock you back (intentional?)
Pretty sure this is a partial knockback huge boss exception.
That would seem to be the only one that could be considered fully intended, given the mechanic and her special "Prime elite boss" status and special name coloring that could indicate she can bypass normal rules.
Seems intended, partial kb as I explained - powerful elite kb rule. (Airborn not blocked, slighty kb blocked)
Player Powers
Control Wizard: At least some sources of chill can possibly go through while being blocked (may just be chill stacks, not just the chilled hold effect)
All sources of chilled, and the chilled hold effect goes through block. A high recovery/wis/spec wizard can keep a blocking guardian still indefinetely right through his shield.
Menace I believe prevents the hold effect, but not stacks.
Block is also not working against knockdown attacks from flamespikers, magma brutes, or Gommoth, the boss of Primordial Temple.
I have yet to see an instance of it working against any pre-xpack mob.
Mine has worked fine against all the ones I've tested again in Mount hotenow.
Keep in mind both of these enemies target charge up attacks which appear to directly centered on you, but are considered behind you. So just standing a blocking does no good. But if you back up slightly, the get blocked.
Magma brutes being elites also use the partial kb rule. You go slightly back, but not prone.
Flamespikers i just checked, they don't use the partial kb rule, youll stand firm if your block aim is true.
I've also just run a few foundries which had a huge variety of pre xpack mobs - and 95% of there control powers were blocked just fine, so no idea what this huge issue players are facing is about. Perhaps they are ignoring GWFs unstoppable more so then block..
Because i've not noticed much break in the xpack blockwise at all (there was plenty bugged before it sure), infact the only thing I know specificly broke was dragon wing buffet. (Which previously used the partial kb rule).
Also re: wing bufet: It seems to be a directional issue with blocking. Spinning in some random directions while blocking results in some ~5-10% of the buffets getting blocked. No way to predict or make it consistant though.
Flame strike can also knock back immune NPCs like driders, spawn pits (spellplague caverns) and sometimes bosses (like the first boss in karrundax caves). While it may be fun to push driders off cliffs, i'm not sure it is intentional.
A probably related issue: Dots from traps are still applied when blocked or dodged.
Another issue: the short immunity after dodging (CW, DC) may make players immune to... Heals. Greater lvl 60 healing potions come to my mind. While i can't certify it's the cause of healing potions not working (making such tests isn't easy), it's a trend i have noticed. I know it's not related to control but since you're digging into immunities...
Blocking attacks that also can apply debuffs such as the Formorian Warlord can still have the debuffs applied to you.
the same happens when you dodge last second(you need to get the message that you dodge/immune to the attack), in most cases you always get the secondary effect of the dodge/blocked skill
example: with poison arrow traps you block/dodge the arrow(direct dmg/effect) but still get the poison dot(secondary effect)
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Prone (Plaguechanged Maw Ranged Attack, Hrimnir Spikes, Hrimnir Rock, Enhanced Rimefire Golem Charge, Enhanced Rimefire Golem Falling Spikes, Dragon Swing, Magma Brute Rock, Dragon fireball)
Stun (Roar, TR knife throw skill that normally knocks you back stuns you if you are immune)
Disable (Valindra's Choke in MC)
And Crescendo doesn't grant pretty much any CC immunity (or a lot less than unstoppable)
GF block and menace works against nearly all of those, so you must mean only unstoppable is bugged for these. Though doesn't make sense since in every case i've heard so far they are linked.
Specificly just tested a few mins ago magma golems - rock/slam/explode - all get blocked. The rock and explosion normally sends you prone too, block results in a small pushback. They are massive elites though, so seems justified.
Only 2 on your list i can confirm are wing buffet and giantsoul spin.
Another issue: the short immunity after dodging (CW, DC) may make players immune to... Heals. Greater lvl 60 healing potions come to my mind. While i can't certify it's the cause of healing potions not working (making such tests isn't easy), it's a trend i have noticed. I know it's not related to control but since you're digging into immunities...
Can 100% confirm all heals are dodgeable. Especially potions, wasted tons that way. Because while you are not able to drink a potion while dodging - you are briefly after, and you are briefly immune to damage after a dodge.. So hitting the key just after you dodge will result in wasted potion.
and it is actually pretty easy to test. Just spam you potion key while dodging/injured, if you fingers are fast enough it will go on cooldown and you'll still be hurt.
Reasoning is likely due to how all/most rpgs are programmed: Healing is considered positive damage. Dodge = damage immunity, positive or negative can't be distinguished easily in the code.
You can even block certain heals, though it's less of a issue then dodging them.
the same happens when you dodge last second(you need to get the message that you dodge/immune to the attack), in most cases you always get the secondary effect of the dodge/blocked skill
example: with poison arrow traps you block/dodge the arrow(direct dmg/effect) but still get the poison dot(secondary effect)
Many dots can't be blocked. Traps are just easy to notice, but fire dots from mobs in caverns of karrundax, like flamespikes, ignore block and dodge. I guess it's making this dungeon artificially harder than intended.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
GF block and menace works against nearly all of those, so you must mean only unstoppable is bugged for these. Though doesn't make sense since in every case i've heard so far they are linked.
Specificly just tested a few mins ago magma golems - rock/slam/explode - all get blocked. The rock and explosion normally sends you prone too, block results in a small pushback. They are massive elites though, so seems justified.
Only 2 on your list i can confirm are wing buffet and giantsoul spin.
Yes, I am talking about Unstoppable being affected by those. I think GF block blocks a lot more CC than Unstoppable does even though they should be the same.
About traps, yes you get the DoT both poison and bleed if you dodge directly over them. Also root effects from ground spike traps. I reported that in game months ago and it still happens.
Also somewhat related that Soulforged Enchantment description reads that you become immune to all damage when it triggers, but:
1. It will not trigger if you are being CCed while dropping below 25% and then continue to take damage until you die with CC effect being active. If CC effect stops at any point, you become immune.
2. Tenebrous Enchantment necrotic damage somehow goes through Soulforged Enchantment immunity even though there is no note saying it should or would.
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ggyuMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I can't confirm it yet, but i think Dazing Strike from TR interrupt attacking while guarding, with at-wills so you need to press the at-will button again to attack him further more. It's the skill which the TR use to jump in the air cross his arms to hit you or im wrong with posting that skill name?
And the bite and throw attack from winter wolves are really bugged. If you block the first part - the attack damage - but not the second part anymore(because you got cced, guard break or only don't guard more), then you got thrown(and the camera zoom in for that animation of winter wolf). It doesn't matter to if the wolf die or get cced while the animation is running. You got thrown. =(
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2013
Fomorian Totemist can stun GWF through unstoppable so that unstoppable is still active but you cannot move or attack at all. It also prevents you from activating unstoppable.
Fomorian Totemist can stun GWF through unstoppable so that unstoppable is still active but you cannot move or attack at all. It also prevents you from activating unstoppable.
You mean the circle stun right? It can be blocked by shield, but the same cc-effect work. Then you can't attack or block. =(
I can't confirm it yet, but i think Dazing Strike from TR interrupt attacking while guarding, with at-wills so you need to press the at-will button again to attack him further more. It's the skill which the TR use to jump in the air cross his arms to hit you or im wrong with posting that skill name?
Yes, that's Dazing Strike. What you describe may apply to other non-player powers as well; I get the interrupt-while-guarding thing on my GF with various enemy types but assumed it was due to my mouse being stupid or something.
I found now some new cc go through block(and confirm other by posting screenshots of the attacker and the attack-name).
Grast attack is named 'Reimhammer' - don't know what it is in english, but still anything with hammer should in the attack name. It is flagged as CC, but it isn't correct blocked. I get a little airfly if he can hit me with this AoE - while guarding!
So the endboss of arcane reservoir use the same attack as the boss in feydark breaCH(wrote it false in my previous posts).
Here pictures of both:
Arcane Reservoir
Feydark Breach
It's maybe called Vodoo incapacitation or Vodoo disabled or Vodoo Knocked.
Don't mistake it with Vodoo weakness/weakening/reduction which only make you weaker.
And the end our big golem Enhanced Rime Firegolem:
His teleport/jump-attack is maybe called 'attack'. You lie every time independent if you guard or not if he reach you with this attack...
Daze effects interrupt/cancel TR's Duelist's Flurry (CC immune part), and some effects still hit through Impossible to Catch (both PvE and PvP, GF daze hits through it and some monsters (totemists I think) in Malabog's Castle have daze effects that cannot be cancelled with ITC or prevented).
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited October 2013
For anyone who cares, karrundax's breath weapon is bugged like this as well.
Comments
At least the spider boss in castle never ignores Unstoppable as well. Haven't tested the others.
When I get around to it I'll run PK and check if the undead pirates and witches can still knock you back through block, but I think it's safe to say that they are also bugged.
Also Ray of Frost is the obvious wizard power that can freeze a guardian fighter even while he's blocking without dealing any damage to him.
I have also noticed that the Lizardman Trapper's pull attack seems to ignore CC resistance. There might be a timing issue too, with not enough time between the red zone appearing and the attack.
Maybe off-topic, I have also noticed that when Winter Wolves in Icespire Peak make their initial frost breath attack, the red cone is pointed in the wrong direction.
I'd also remove the (Intentional?) And replace it with (Powerfull boss kb partial effect). As it very much seems intented to get that partial kb while blocking on a GF - it adds an element of challenge to the game for guardians that seems quite appropriate. If you simply stood firm all the time while blocking, that'd be much too easy for whats meant to be a challenging tier 2 boss.
Yea verified, even pre mod1. Applies to all other enemies that use this attack too. EG: Lizardman trappers. Though it's more clear to called it a "pull" attack.
Pretty sure this is a partial knockback huge boss exception.
That would seem to be the only one that could be considered fully intended, given the mechanic and her special "Prime elite boss" status and special name coloring that could indicate she can bypass normal rules.
Seems intended, partial kb as I explained - powerful elite kb rule. (Airborn not blocked, slighty kb blocked)
All sources of chilled, and the chilled hold effect goes through block. A high recovery/wis/spec wizard can keep a blocking guardian still indefinetely right through his shield.
Menace I believe prevents the hold effect, but not stacks.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Mine has worked fine against all the ones I've tested again in Mount hotenow.
Keep in mind both of these enemies target charge up attacks which appear to directly centered on you, but are considered behind you. So just standing a blocking does no good. But if you back up slightly, the get blocked.
Magma brutes being elites also use the partial kb rule. You go slightly back, but not prone.
Flamespikers i just checked, they don't use the partial kb rule, youll stand firm if your block aim is true.
I've also just run a few foundries which had a huge variety of pre xpack mobs - and 95% of there control powers were blocked just fine, so no idea what this huge issue players are facing is about. Perhaps they are ignoring GWFs unstoppable more so then block..
Because i've not noticed much break in the xpack blockwise at all (there was plenty bugged before it sure), infact the only thing I know specificly broke was dragon wing buffet. (Which previously used the partial kb rule).
Also re: wing bufet: It seems to be a directional issue with blocking. Spinning in some random directions while blocking results in some ~5-10% of the buffets getting blocked. No way to predict or make it consistant though.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
https://soundcloud.com/nathankilgore/i-wanna-see-you2
Otter ~~~~ on Beholder
Prone (Plaguechanged Maw Ranged Attack, Hrimnir Spikes, Hrimnir Rock, Enhanced Rimefire Golem Charge, Enhanced Rimefire Golem Falling Spikes, Dragon Swing, Magma Brute Rock, Dragon fireball)
Stun (Roar, TR knife throw skill that normally knocks you back stuns you if you are immune)
Disable (Valindra's Choke in MC)
And Crescendo doesn't grant pretty much any CC immunity (or a lot less than unstoppable)
A probably related issue: Dots from traps are still applied when blocked or dodged.
Another issue: the short immunity after dodging (CW, DC) may make players immune to... Heals. Greater lvl 60 healing potions come to my mind. While i can't certify it's the cause of healing potions not working (making such tests isn't easy), it's a trend i have noticed. I know it's not related to control but since you're digging into immunities...
example: with poison arrow traps you block/dodge the arrow(direct dmg/effect) but still get the poison dot(secondary effect)
GF block and menace works against nearly all of those, so you must mean only unstoppable is bugged for these. Though doesn't make sense since in every case i've heard so far they are linked.
Specificly just tested a few mins ago magma golems - rock/slam/explode - all get blocked. The rock and explosion normally sends you prone too, block results in a small pushback. They are massive elites though, so seems justified.
Only 2 on your list i can confirm are wing buffet and giantsoul spin.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Can 100% confirm all heals are dodgeable. Especially potions, wasted tons that way. Because while you are not able to drink a potion while dodging - you are briefly after, and you are briefly immune to damage after a dodge.. So hitting the key just after you dodge will result in wasted potion.
and it is actually pretty easy to test. Just spam you potion key while dodging/injured, if you fingers are fast enough it will go on cooldown and you'll still be hurt.
Reasoning is likely due to how all/most rpgs are programmed: Healing is considered positive damage. Dodge = damage immunity, positive or negative can't be distinguished easily in the code.
You can even block certain heals, though it's less of a issue then dodging them.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Many dots can't be blocked. Traps are just easy to notice, but fire dots from mobs in caverns of karrundax, like flamespikes, ignore block and dodge. I guess it's making this dungeon artificially harder than intended.
Yes, I am talking about Unstoppable being affected by those. I think GF block blocks a lot more CC than Unstoppable does even though they should be the same.
About traps, yes you get the DoT both poison and bleed if you dodge directly over them. Also root effects from ground spike traps. I reported that in game months ago and it still happens.
Also somewhat related that Soulforged Enchantment description reads that you become immune to all damage when it triggers, but:
1. It will not trigger if you are being CCed while dropping below 25% and then continue to take damage until you die with CC effect being active. If CC effect stops at any point, you become immune.
2. Tenebrous Enchantment necrotic damage somehow goes through Soulforged Enchantment immunity even though there is no note saying it should or would.
[*]Castle Never: Dragon Wing attack ,keep knock back while using unstoppable
All the other CC listed in Karrundax have very hard way to be blocked, you must step back facing the center of the red area (but you can block em).
Dunno if is intended but you can dodge some buffs like into the fray or some heals as listed above.
And the bite and throw attack from winter wolves are really bugged. If you block the first part - the attack damage - but not the second part anymore(because you got cced, guard break or only don't guard more), then you got thrown(and the camera zoom in for that animation of winter wolf). It doesn't matter to if the wolf die or get cced while the animation is running. You got thrown. =(
You mean the circle stun right? It can be blocked by shield, but the same cc-effect work. Then you can't attack or block. =(
Yes, that's Dazing Strike. What you describe may apply to other non-player powers as well; I get the interrupt-while-guarding thing on my GF with various enemy types but assumed it was due to my mouse being stupid or something.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Grast attack is named 'Reimhammer' - don't know what it is in english, but still anything with hammer should in the attack name. It is flagged as CC, but it isn't correct blocked. I get a little airfly if he can hit me with this AoE - while guarding!
So the endboss of arcane reservoir use the same attack as the boss in feydark breaCH(wrote it false in my previous posts).
Here pictures of both:
It's maybe called Vodoo incapacitation or Vodoo disabled or Vodoo Knocked.
Don't mistake it with Vodoo weakness/weakening/reduction which only make you weaker.
And the end our big golem Enhanced Rime Firegolem:
His teleport/jump-attack is maybe called 'attack'. You lie every time independent if you guard or not if he reach you with this attack...
Here you see catapult throw can't blocked (you got smashed into air while guarding):
I hope we GFs can still block the enemy attack soon and don't beware of can't doing anything because of CC go through our block.