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Enchant\disenchant costs will ruin the game
ulkaur
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I have never done a combine higher than rank 7 and have never combined a set of shards. I won't until the price reflects that of a free-to-play game. Using a perfect enchant as an example, it takes 64 combines to go from a rank 7 to rank 10. That's $640 to use coalescant wards, and likely more expensive if you attempt to use preservation wards first.
If the costs for wards was reduced by 80%, it would make it far more worthwhile. If you could afford to remove an old enchant then it would mean more get used, as opposed to people settling for rank 6 or 7 on purples because they are being "realistic" instead of having fun playing. It will also enable the designers to create new, higher level content. I was more than disappointed to find there are no real upgrades presented with Feywild. Fomorian weapons are just a new skin and their own twisted time sink of an existing weapon.
The designers will not be able to grow the game level-wise with the mindset of $10 or 200tb per coal ward. Will a few people do it? Sure. If I got them more frequently through invoking I would use them, but have no use for one ward to sit in my limited inventory while I wait the six weeks to the next coal reward. I have four characters i invoke on daily, and have gotten exactly one coal ward from doing so in 5 weeks.
I for one am through paying real money for items in the game. I've spent $120 so far, and nothing since Feywild released. I don't see the point in rewarding someone for stagnating what could be a great game on purpose.
If the costs for wards was reduced by 80%, it would make it far more worthwhile. If you could afford to remove an old enchant then it would mean more get used, as opposed to people settling for rank 6 or 7 on purples because they are being "realistic" instead of having fun playing. It will also enable the designers to create new, higher level content. I was more than disappointed to find there are no real upgrades presented with Feywild. Fomorian weapons are just a new skin and their own twisted time sink of an existing weapon.
The designers will not be able to grow the game level-wise with the mindset of $10 or 200tb per coal ward. Will a few people do it? Sure. If I got them more frequently through invoking I would use them, but have no use for one ward to sit in my limited inventory while I wait the six weeks to the next coal reward. I have four characters i invoke on daily, and have gotten exactly one coal ward from doing so in 5 weeks.
I for one am through paying real money for items in the game. I've spent $120 so far, and nothing since Feywild released. I don't see the point in rewarding someone for stagnating what could be a great game on purpose.
Post edited by ulkaur on
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This is called end-game progress, like it or not - what would you do if you(and everyone esle) had all r10 sloted? You would get bored and quit because there wouldnt be anything to do.
Same as stats got soft cap, gear does have them too.
This is not WoW.
Im now starting to switch from lvl 8s to 9s in all slots, after being 1 month to do the same from 7s to 8s... is part of the game progress, if you dont grind your toon, you wont value it.
Nobody would quit if it were easier to get enchants, they'd just work on another character instead of spending obscene amounts of cash and effort just to get one character up over the course of many weeks. With that said I think that going from R7-10 should be hard, just not as hard as it currently is.
Also, what kind of ridiculous person uses all purchased coalescent wards to fuse all the way up to rank 10 in the first place, and thus spends $640? For one, that's insane at lower ranks, for two, they cost less in AD on the auction house, for three, you can occasionally get them for free if you invoke every day. I've got like ten of them in my bank and I've never paid for a single one. If you think it costs $640 to get a rank 10, you're mistaken.
Disenchanting is a trap/money sink for rich and naive kids lol.
For example to remove a lvl 6 stone it will cost you ~ 73k AD from a blue ring . Better buy a new purple ring for max 30k AD and a lvl 6 rune for ~20k AD and the total is around 50k not 73k AD . Lucky me the deflect stones,defence,(as a tanker) life steal are so cheap sometimes at the auction
Always be careful and pay attention to the auction prices , a high lvl stone might be cheaper than buying a ward sometimes
I wont buy/work for higher stones than lvl 6 ,only if i get the end game set gear lol.Then a lvl 7 or 8 will do lol.
Start to use a lot the profession/crafting interface (similar to Assignments from STO), sell cheap assets; mercenaries,carvers,weavers,miners, etc etc (similar to the doffs from STO) and you'll have some extra coins( AD) to buy high lvl stones
and btw when you finished or failed a dungeon run, stay there (don't leave the instance) to search for kits and treasures except the fake ones lol, most parties ignores the kits/hidden treasures and rush to the final boss way lol.Use the traps/spikes to push/kill tough enemies.(Every stone you find matters even if it's a lvl 1 so get to work and gather all you can find in the game ).
This game is way more "harsh" than Star Trek Online , in economy terms too-i guess higher numbers of trek fans makes the item prices more fair/lower) and even if you have a stone lvl 10 will still give you troubles in Neverwinter dungeon runs.To get into a party with 10 lvl stones on other's gear it's a probability of 0.5% lol unless you're playing with your real life friends and do private runs.
I'm thinking to go back to Star Trek Online ,not sure yet, but will do for sure with the Winter Event. I still have saved 328 Glossy Pictures of Q from last year and the free Odyssey ship from the Star Trek Online 2 years Anniversary since that game became free-to-play ...
- PWI - November, 2008 (2 months after North-America-West Coast open beta)
- Forsaken World - open beta
- BOI - open beta
- Star Trek Online - ftp January, 2012 and rank 14 STO Wiki contributor
- Neverwinter open beta June, 2013
Daily Foundry "Canyon of the Dead" ( NW-DBPJYKMRE ) - dungeon
I use avarage of R5,5 stones and I am currently at 12,5k GS - that is more then enought for any dungeon to become fairly easy.
And i dont see much sence complaining about you cant get extra 1k GS in a week.
These kind of things are in place just to get extra money from certain people. I say let them have it, if it means the rest is free for us.
If one does feel compelled to go all the way, and do it quickly; then yes, it's going to cost or be frustrating. Maybe both.
Use green wards for rank 5-9s. 10 from the Zen Store will cost you around 35,000 AD.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
not to side track this conversation a little bit but don't people think it is ridiculously expensive to Dis-enchant? Sure, I'll do the work to get high lvl enchants/runes but come on - 150K+ AD to move something from one piece of armour to another is robbery. So you work to get a perfect vorpal which takes a lot of effort and then have to pay a wack just to move to gear you like better is lame
p.
Getting the best enchantments should be hard or pricey to get, IMO. If you get everything on a silver platter, what's the point to even play in the first place? There is no sense of achievement if you get the best of anything easily.
The question is, why bother removing enchantments at all? Rank 5/6 enchantments drop pretty frequently and are more than adequate for the current content outside of PvP, once you've geared up on Rank 5/6 enchantments then you put the ones you collect towards ranking up to rank 10 and then overwrite your rank 5/6 enchantments.
Happy Hunting,
The Pondering Dwarf
1) Sales
2) Sales
3) And more sales
Giving out keys? Yeah, right! Making enchant removal cheap? Laughable. Anything that steers people away from spending real money to convert Zen to AD is not a part of their business model. Look at the FF Main Hand. Not only do parts rarely drop, you have to buy the Profession Lock Boxes with the hope or chance that you get what you're looking for. Our guildies got smart and are sharing tools.
This is 1) a business that is 2) set up to fuel an addictive-gambling-like-mentality to 3) get your money.
That's it, plain and simple.
Your options now are to not support their shady business model by being F2P, buy Zen with real money, for find other curious ways of finding NW currency. Is it possible to get all BiS gear in game for free? Sure. A TR in our guild has BiS gear, all Rank 9s, a Perfect Vorpal and a Greater Soulforged. Not completely BiS but dang, dang close. He farms all the time to get items to sell on the AH.
Pick your poison.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
It is not a "shady" business model. Not even close. You get *exactly* what you pay for, and what you will get is explained if you read the text.
As others have said, there are very few times when the AD cost of removing an enchantment is worth it (namely, most weapon and armor enchants, all enchants over rank 8, and dark rank 7s). The price of Preservation wards is reasonable, IF you convert AD to zen and then buy from the store. NEVER spend 1000 zen on a Coal Ward, get them from the AH for 110-110k AD. Remember to invoke at least once a day on every toon.
Agreed, if you are spending 10 dollars on a ward you should definitely sit down in front of the mirror and think what led you to this point in your life and how to go about fixing it.
Welfare gamers only care about three things.
1) Wanting stuff
2) Wanting not to have to pay for stuff
3) Wanting more stuff, and this stuff is for free too
Too bad for them, businesses are in the business of making money. That is kind of what makes it a business, and not a charity.
Free to play is a Business model.
If you don't like the free to play business model, why don't you try go playing a game made by a non-profit charity instead?
You can try this one.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
To those who think I just want an I-Win button, you didn't get my intent. In any business model, product is created, manufacured and shipped with the idea that everything is designed to be sold and used. Product that doesn't sell well enough gets phased out over time in favor of what does. In a virtual environment use is the only factor that matters. It's only a productive item or service if the percentage of people using it or willing to consider it is high enough.
I suggested that by lowering the cost they would make more people consider it an option. If disenchanting were more reasonable, more people would do it. An AD sink only works if people use it. There's no AD sink if people are smart enough to completely dismiss it as an option except in extreme cases.
While I won't ever pay $10 for wards, I would pay $2. I'm not out to keep the designers from making money, just throwing options on how they can reach more people and keep the game going strong. They would also pave the way towards new levels, moving enchants to newer better gear. As it stands, statting your gear is the new grind.
I also mentioned in my original post I have spent money on the game, for a guardian pack, and also some profession packs, keys, etc. On my characters I roughly earn 40-60k per day in diamonds. I've invoked every day if at all possible. I can afford to buy stuff. I'm just drawing the line at what I believe is resonable, and what can just be chalked up to the fast grab.
Thing is: Only some die hard players will every make lvl 9+ enchants while everyone else will just stop at some point. Would the whole thing be cheaper it could even lead to more profit for Cryptic in the end. Beause atm I would never buy a coal ward. For what? That is just a little drop of water in the ocean. I would need to buy so many to get fuse the enchants anyway spending hundreds of bucks on a GAME! There comes the advantage of paid games: You might spend like 200-250 bucks a whole year and then have EVERYTHING in game open to use. In f2p you can pay hundreds of bucks for a tiny feature to unlock.
The thing is that with enough patience, you can get what you want without spending any Zen or AD. I find it a reasonable challenge to get those perfect/Rank 10 enchantments.
The fee for removing enchantments, on the other hand, is unrealistic, but if you look at the prices they have set for the enchantments in the Wondrous Bazaar you will understand why the fee is so high. A rank 3 enchantment is 50K AD, in the AH for the same amount of AD you can get a Rank 6 enchantment. For some reason, they think that those enchantment are worth a lot more than they actually do, so, in their mind, it's worth for the players to unsocket them. This, of course, it's not an excuse and it just goes to show how out of touch with the reality of the game they are. These prices and fees need to be set to a more realistic amount so they actually reflect the value of the item or service you get in return.
As a side note
The same thing can be said about the gear they sell in the Bazaar, which has mediocre stats, but for some reason it has a price of over a million AD (the skins look interesting enough, but not worth the price just for that).
Enchants are the only hard to achieve thing in the entire game, there has to be something that takes time to acquire, get over it.
Also whoever said "why should I pay a bunch of AD to unsocket my P. vorpal once I upgrade my weapon" Um if you can afford P. vorpal you already have BiS, and say you craft the fomorian weapon well you certainly have enough money to unsocket if you could afford P. vorpal and the weaponsmith profession assets in the first place...
Unsocketing, transmuting, and AH fees are the only real AD sinks we have
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Of course you don't really need the highest ranking enchants - but if you have nothing else to spend the AD on, well...why not?
another doom and gloom post... there's a reason why it's not easy to get the most powerful enchants in the game. and i'm sure that it was designed this way on purpose. you seem to be one of those gamers that blows through content and is always looking for the /godmode codes so you can be all powerful. you can't do that here so that's got you in a tizzy.
if the game isn't fun for you, move on. if your idea of game play is invoking every day for the possibility of getting a coalescent ward, it's no wonder you're not happy. most core players/end gamers are either grinding for items of value in order to upgrade their gear or they're buying it.
There are people who is going to play this game for years and there has to be something for them to strive fore, in more than one aspect of the game, and not have to sit and wait for Cryptic/PW to bring out new stuff to do.
It's also a matter of priority, buy only using what's available in game, you can not equip several characters with perfect enchants at the same time.
I am aiming for a perfect vorpal for my GWF, just because I like the gfx of it. It will take forever as this is not something I will spend real money on (I spend real money on other stuff in the game, mainly cosmetics, mounts and pets)
I hope to get enough AD's by crafting them, to buy vorpals, if I don't get them as drops and I invoke on 5 chars, hoping I will get enough wards out of the coffers to fuse them. So far I have gotten the vorpals in the same speed as the wards (I have one normal and one lesser)
I stopped fusing enchantments for my DC, she will have to do with normals.
You have to check AH and see if it's really worth to remove and reuse your enchantment or if it's cheaper to buy a new one.
The problem with this is, you're almost certainly going by AH prices, which are set by supply and demand. If the cost to remove enchants was lowered to the point where people would prefer to remove them over destorying them, there will be even more enchants floating around, and they would end up costing even less, the AH prices would go down, probably to the point where there'd once again be no point in removing them instead of unsocketing them again. They can't set a fixed price for something based on AH prices.
It's only an AD sync if people actually spend AD on the process.
Any informed player will realize that it is cheaper (generally) to just buy a replacement enchantment of the level you are thinking of removing on the AH, than to pay the removal fee. Even if the AH prices fall as the previous poster suggests, it is still economically less expensive (in terms of farming time and possibly preservation wards) to toss up to a Rank 6 or 7 ward than to remove it.
Perhaps some people are paying the fee anyhow, perhaps some people pay $10 for a coalescent ward. If it is not in the economic interest of players to pay the fee vs. alternatives, though, the AD sink is not as effective as it could/should be.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
You are right, the prices in the AH are set by supply and demand, but it's the way the game is set up now that makes the supply and demand. Think how easy it is to come across a Rank 4 enchant and how pricey it is to remove one. The prices in the AH are the way they are because how they set up the game. No one is paying to remove enchants of Rank 7 or lower for a reason and it's not the prices in the AH. It is simply easier to obtain a Rank 7- enchantment than to make the AD required to remove and save that enchantment. The fee should be in such a way that it reflects the rarity of the enchantment not an amount they dreamed up during development. To avoid the changes in the economy they could make the unsocketed enchantments bound to the character so you could not sell them. They had time to test the game for 3+ months now, its seems only appropriate that they should make the necessary adjustments to these prices, otherwise these items and services are just useless. It even fail as the AD sink it was intended to be because players do not spend their AD on this.