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Why do people complain about GWF?
baleriondrogon
Member, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 53
But I see so many of them running around on the servers. I have played one up to lvl 30, why do so many people say they are useless. This is a serious question and I'm thinking about rolling one again but are they really shunned as much as it seems?
" I don't know half of you as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you as well as you deserve." -J.R.R. Tolkien
Post edited by baleriondrogon on
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My suggestion is to get a core grp of guildies who will run dd with you starting from lower level / easier content, then as you gear up, your grp will be solid. I played with RL friends who are kind of under geared, but we had fun while doing it, so no big deal for me in regards of the general hate in lookng for grp channel. Try to have fun with a core grp and I think you will like the play style of GWF, it is what keep me playing it from day 1.
Tanks are for adds, no boss. TR on boss grab aggro, and dodge his aoe in most fights.
I actually understand now why people give the GWF so much grief because with so many options it gives the player more opportunity to not be doing the job they are needed to do if you don't know how to switch roles or play the class with flexibility.
GWF's are amazing as group tanks in pvp. We can handle 4v1's, sometimes more, in one of our builds. The other build is a **** good single-target damage dealer that can really put the hurt on somebody as he moves around the battlefield. As a team player, we have debuff and cc capabilities, and can keep others occupied in the process.
In PvE, we are a mixed bag. We can easily gear up and tank the boss, and though it takes us longer, we can solo kill almost any boss in the game. And unlike a TR, we can facetank the damage they do and unstoppable/pot when we need it. If nobody else is attacking the boss, we'll keep them on us just fine.
On the other hand, we can also tank add damage. However, due to our inability to tank AND deal enough damage in an area to maintain threat via damage, and our general lack of threat generation capabilities, we can't keep the adds on us. Much like the boss, anytime a cleric launches a heal or a mage casts a singularity, we lose threat.
So while we can do a lot for a group, we lack capabilities to really ensure that threat is maintained. One very minor flaw that can really gimp a group altogether.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
You are not wrong, but Neverwinter is poorly balanced in this regard. With work, you can do good DPS in PvE, but it's a very specialized build, there is little room for individualization. Plain and simple, GWF should be a guy/girl with a big *** sword that hurts, that's it. AoE, awesome, but we don't have what we need. The target cap should be well above 5 frikken targets, and our AoE damage is laughable in comparison to what one CW can do to a group of monsters. Until they figure that out, it's a tough class to play.
Not really, the GWFs are asked to tank and/or deal damage but lack tools for both to do it properly without being extremly overgeared.
GWF is the height of versatility. Keep that in mind. It's one of the only classes I know that really can support totally different playstyles, from aggressive, in your face types to defensive support types, and everything in between.
We have an amazing burst tank that works pretty well in PvE. The Sentinel feat line, as well, can be maximized to give us tank on-par with the majority of GF's. And our damage under the Destroyer feat line is comparable to a standard T2 fit TR with no enchants, so definitely not something to balk at.
Your role in a dungeon will depend a little on your playstyle, and a little on your team composition. Again, with a GWF, you can usually find a place to fit in and fill up most gaps that the team might have (no rogue, no GF, even in a bad fix a CW, though that's pushing it).
But don't get too caught up with the idea that GWF's are just bruisers. We can easily be tanks or bruisers, or a little mix in between. If anything, this ambiguity hurts us in the eyes of the simple-minded, who see only a role to be filled. Luckily for us, as they release new classes that are inevitably going to be hybrids of the Tank/Gank/Healer/Control paragons, GWF's will no longer be the only red-headed stepchild. We'll just be another class outside the four primaries that can cross roles.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Tank but with no agro control...
DPS but with continual reductions in damage...
AOE but with limited aoe capabilities...
CC but almost all CC is single target...
I know there are people who will disagree and maybe counter argue some of my points and I agree there are a couple of ways to alleviate some of the GWF's overall mediocrity, but thats the major issue isn't it. The class is a nice class, but overall just mediocre.
- JailBreak (in development)
1 - aesthetics: the beginner player imagines that the class is a machine to do damage, regardless of the build while a cw example would be complicated to create, but with many possibilities to be extremely strong. This was precisely the opposite. As I do not read "tips build", I had to rack their brains to create my.
2 - I came across 100 gwf throughout the game, 95 were bad, five were frighteningly good, being different from one another. That is, a class gwf was moldable and enormous potential. I think all the players thought that the trend would improve the class as a whole, facilitating the work for new players, and only when their function was well specified, make the necessary changes to balance the game. This was done, but as the game is restricted to pvp.
Several builds have been wasted without thereby opened new doors. For example: exchanged our best daily damage by a utilitarian function and soon after took our production ap. is symbolic ...
gwf sentinel can tank far more damage than a GF. they have many defensive abilities, dailies, features and
encounters as well as their unstoppable mode (gives up to 50%), while the GF lacks defensive skills.
However a sentinel cannot make things hit them so their survivability is rather wasted/unneccesary (pve wise). Also bronzewood doesnt increase a gwf's threat, it only debuffs.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I don't argue with the second assessment, but I would argue with the first. Block, alone, surpasses everything a GWF can accomplish with facetanking. And a GF is capable of attaining a far higher AC and Defense rating than a GWF.
Deflect, on the other hand? GF can't even come close, I don't believe.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
During unstoppable, and as far as I understand, not during the majority of gameplay otherwise.
But I agree, during Unstoppable we're awesome. What's the GF damage reduction multiplier while they are in block?
Dismissed.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
The biggest issue with GWF tanker builds is threat.. The class has the worst threat in the game.. This hinders the class as much as anything. You can't really be an effective tank without threat in a party situation.. So that reason alone makes a GF a far better thank..
Bronzewood does increase threat.. By having marked dps.. Threat increases... Threat and dps a very much linked and the GWF low dps is a main reason why they lack threat
Because they are. They're Melee but they don't have hp/mitigation/evasion. They're supposedly damage dealers but they deal no damage, they have caps everywhere, and their mecanisms don't go along with the other classes. The GF is static and tanks a static foe (the boss), which is fine. The other classes are ranged and deal with mobile foes, which is fine. The gwf is melee and has now way to prevent the mobile foes from being mobile. Worse, the foes keep being moved/attracted/pushed/bounced by the other players.
But mainly yes, the gwf has no role to play. Adds? First, he can"t kill them. Second, most dungeons have cliffs/bridges/ and all the other classes have nice powers to make the foes fall down.
GWF's are not the height of Versatility. They are the highest of scrambling to find anything they can possible do to make them useful in a group and not replaced by any one of the many other classes.
I main GF, I also have an okay geared lv 60 GWF, CW and DC. Now a GF can switch between tank and damage dealer alot better than a GWF can with the gear to back it up. If you think a GF cant run and kite well that is what into the fray is for. A GWF has nothing on GF. Okay wait they do have Wicked Strike and WMS. These AOE at wills are superior to cleave, (for area, not damage) but encounters and dailies all suck compared to a GF's in damage and utility.
Now the class that is the king of versatility is surprise surprise the DC. I kid you not. The DC's encounters are monstrous for Damage, but no DC ever brings them to Dungeon because DC's are so few and there healing is so essential they cannot afford to use them and be DPS. I leveled DC as pure DPS, because I figured it would make leveling him faster. In Dungeons I was never outdamaged once. And I ran alot of dungeons. No TR, CW or GF came close. And GWF are not in the playing field for dungeon damage while leveling. At level 60 my DC who is now healing and defense spec can crit 5 targets for 15k Damage, with a Single encounter. IE 75K damage dealt in one move. No other classes dailies even come close to that. With damage gear. My DC is tough enough to face tank mobs when there is No fighter in the group (A Very common scenario)
So yeah DC can tank Better than a GWF, Aoe Damage better than a CW, and they are the kings of party defense. But they can really only do one of these things at a time. DC to me is the most fun and most versitle class out there.... If Only I got to play any role other than healer.