Epic Dungeons in pug - how to ?

sigreg · September 2013

Hello adventurers,

Question from quite newbie lvl 60

im trying to make Epic dungeons one after one to collect my first T1 set, and looks like even those first ones are problematic for random/public groups... Cloactower went fine, Cragmire needed 2 or 3 tries as group was wiped out, but Mad Dragon is real pain.
Im playing DC so generally its somehow a "squishy"class" and rarely, really rarely i see anybody from public group who care about that. Hell, usually just after entering dungeon when loading is finished i do see already someone almost dead and desperately fightng for his life because he ran alone into pack of mobs without waiting for the rest..
Yesterday i tried to run this dungeon 6th time, and it was 5th time when group was not able to defeat first boss (devil at round platform, with some kind of small ramp leading to him). Everytime is the same - group plays like 5 individuals instead a group where people cover each other, 5 separate fights what does lead to quick death of cleric and wiz (both HAMSTER by imps), and after that death of rest is just matter of (short) time. Only once my group managed to kill that boss, but still failed in final fight with dragon.

At this forum i found opinion that good and experienced players leaved dungeons (and for sure they leaved those low levels) because changes in loot and dungeons generaly. We - rookie 60th suffer from that badly, people just DONT KNOW what to do, what more - loot is BoP now, so we have much more limited access to purple gear as prices at AH are reaching insane levels. Effect - rookie 60th's poorly geared are trying to run dungeons to get better gear as its for many of us any chance to get it.
Even if im trying to give any advices (i feel like pro because ONCE i managed to get into final fight what really does look like a epic success) to repeat this how we defeated this boss and give tip before other hard fights.. looks like nobody listen, and dont write even single word to ask more or propose anything else.

Cmon... dungeons are what i love most in this game, but now i feel really depressed. I mean.. Mad dragon is a low level epic, if public group cannot make it, what sense is in even trying a higher dungeons later ? And without dungeons i dont see sense to stay with this game either, PVE - its all what i like here.

Please, ANY advice how to finish Mad dragon dungeon ? I dont know, maybe in such situation playing cleric is a bad idea if nobody do care... maybe i should level up a GF or TR to have better chance to survive and participate in fight instead "nascar running" around platform with hope that ANYONE will help me and take down those !HAMSTER^!! imps chasing me ?

cloud990pl · September 2013

Try running with 2 CWs, GF and GWF/TR; TR/GWF should fight boss 1vs1 in a corner, GF tank adds and CWs control them using steal time and SoEA (shard of endless avalanche), and keep tank alive.

tharsoniusvb · September 2013

The first and obvious advice i can give is, do not run with PUGs. I guess that won't help much because sometimes it's the only option when you are not in a guild or people you might know are just not online.

Mad Dragon is a pretty hard dungeon. I would say it is harder than some T2 dungeons so it really is not shameful to fail. The last fight needs some teamplay otherwise i don't see much chance. So the key is, to get a group that communicates on some level.
I don't think it helps a lot to change the class. playing a cleric yourself is not bad because often i found that the cleric is key. If he fails and all heals are gone, it's a wipe. If you'd play a GF or a TR you would have the same problem. as long as the group is not playing together, you are pretty much screwed. And it will get worse in some T2 dungeons.
So, this is not much of help, but get a group of players you get along with. Join a guild, find some friends. PUGs are always risky. I had some great ones but many, many expeiences similar to yours.

To the fight itself:
Pretty much what the previous poster said, although i found that a GF is also a very good choice to take on the boss 1on1, away from the rest. The CW should control the hell out of all adds, especially in the two phases when more adds (like those healer deamons) come. DC keeps everyone alive and a GWF (better choice than a TR imho) kills adds. When all are working together and stick together a pretty easy fight, if not...wipe.

yokihiro · September 2013

i play a dc, too. 3 weeks or so playing, mainly pugging. i see the same problems. but mainly - and that is unfortunately in most mmos the problem - it is because everyone things the best player in the end is defined by damage dealt and mobs killed. this forces rambo playstyle. i have played in groups where literally no one hit the adds but all just wanted to nuke the boss to be the one without that the boss would not be dead in the end. but they forget while doing this that most parties wipe to adds, not to the boss. and i wiped a lot in such teams. best you can do then is just leaving the party. without a healer they are screwed anyway and some people won't learn it unless they go the hard way. i have often written in chat "ok guys, this time pls add control" and then ppl did the very same thing - all on the boss. then healer died, i shout help and see people still attacking the boss because they don't want to give up dpsing. just leave, maybe they learn then the next time.

silivrena · September 2013

I cant believe you even got to the boss 6 times with a PUG...Was that in a row? I've pretty much stopped playing besides logging in for coins and leadership because of this. People either ditch right off, or the Que system never fills the part up, or people start doing exploits making it no fun.

bubba1966 · September 2013

i would suggest this:
skip t1 dungeons altogether and do t2. Why?
In T1 you have a 10% chance of getting item you want from dd chest, but in t2 you have a 50% chance of getting a T1 item from dd chest and a 10% chance of getting a t2 item.
Secondly, you are more likely to be grouped with better geared and skilled players in T2.

silivrena · September 2013

bubba1966 wrote: »

i would suggest this:
skip t1 dungeons altogether and do t2. Why?
In T1 you have a 10% chance of getting item you want from dd chest, but in t2 you have a 50% chance of getting a T1 item from dd chest and a 10% chance of getting a t2 item.
Secondly, you are more likely to be grouped with better geared and skilled players in T2.

He doesnt have a T1 set...he will be kicked the second he tries to join a T2 dungeon. PUG are nearly impossible to complete, if you love exploiting and have a full set of T2 armor your odds go up quite a bit, but other than that pray that you find a good group.

bubba1966 · September 2013

silivrena wrote: »

He doesnt have a T1 set...he will be kicked the second he tries to join a T2 dungeon. PUG are nearly impossible to complete, if you love exploiting and have a full set of T2 armor your odds go up quite a bit, but other than that pray that you find a good group.

all he needs is pvp set

frishter · September 2013

bubba1966 wrote: »

i would suggest this:
skip t1 dungeons altogether and do t2. Why?
In T1 you have a 10% chance of getting item you want from dd chest, but in t2 you have a 50% chance of getting a T1 item from dd chest and a 10% chance of getting a t2 item.
Secondly, you are more likely to be grouped with better geared and skilled players in T2.

I would make sure that you have a full set of some kind first though. I don't really want more under-geared people in my t2s

, personally I already did that before doing T1s.

phytopath · September 2013

I think Clerics are in tough spot because PVP is harder esp if they are speced for PVE, so you can't just grab the PVP set. You could try getting the Guantgrym set at least 2 piece to go with your 2 pieces of T1 and get a double bonus before starting on the T2s.

Mad Dragon is very hard, I tried it lots with formed PUGs and Que PUGs with a high gear score and already T2s when I was hunting for the Stalwart helm for my GF pre-nerf. The problem I found was not that it was necessarily harder than T2s, but that most well geared/skilled players were running T2s so you would get teamed up with undergeared players. Trying to run epic mad dragon with a bunch of 8K players is going to be brutally hard.

I would recommend either getting a couple of weak purples with unicorn/drake seals or getting the guantgrym pieces and skipping MD.

yerune · September 2013

I've heard you will able to get a gearscore of around 9k or so with blue gear and enchants. Basically it's just another grinding-delay but it ought to get you in the first few dungeons. Same as with the pvp gear, I like the DC's sets for their faster Divinity.

But gearscore is less important than teamplay. Gearscore does make up for poor teamplay though.

Queuing is always a gamble, sometimes you get a great team, other times not so much. It's all about how willing everybody is to try and talk to one another, or better yet, actually listen.

I think the dungeons are set up in such an order so you'll learn how to play with the other classes. We all know how to solo a boss during questing but we all have different ways of translating our tactics into something group-coordinated. Cloak Tower is pretty much zerg-friendly, Mad Dragon not so much.

You still might get people who only zerg when you use the Looking for Group channel, but at least you can see how well the group communicates and discuss tactics. That would be a good time to mention that you're new to that dungeon too

One thing to add though, more of a personal opinion, while gearscore isn't everything, I do object to people wearing green gear queuing for the tougher dungeons. Unless they're really good, it's almost a guaranteed wipe and they're just wasting four other people's time.

I just wished the Friend's list would be useful in actually finding friends who are looking for a group, what dungeons they want and with what class.

sigreg · September 2013

Hello,

Thanks for your replies. I think that indeed i need to find some quild, question is if guilds accept such "casual" players

I have work, family, duties, generally "life" to live so im playing Neverwinter in my free time.
Small update - today was 7th try of Epic Mad dragon run, and 6th where my public group didnt managed to defeat first boss. Im going to leave dungeons with cleric as for now, till i find some group of descent players who know what to do and can run this dungeon as group.

vorphied · September 2013

Again, Mad Dragon is extremely challenging for your typical PUG, and much worse right now due to the dragon being bugged (his AoEs are hugely larger than their red zones, and his breath cone can move suddenly, etc., just like the other dragon bosses after Feywild patch).

PUGs are terrible, and even more so as a DC. I'd strongly suggest guild-shopping.

P.S. There are guilds for all time zones and playstyles. I'm sure you can find one that is helpful and accommodating.

pers3phone · September 2013

Farm the GG/glory set, assort with Unicorn/Drake. Then queue for T2 and skip T1. You came at a bad time when everything is overpriced as hell because of poor drop rates for tiers (for example, there's a single T2 High Vizier Cap on AH on my entire shard). I came in NW not long ago, but before Feywild, and after some AD farming I was able to get full T1 and assorted jewelry/weps/underwear with just 300K AD or so, which put me somewhere around 9300 GS with lvl 4-5 enchants. Don't expect to be taken in "experienced" runs though around this score. Just queue and patiently forge through failures until you find the right party and your GS increases above 10K, then be willing to learn from the more experienced, which will usually mean where to jump and when to run

I will be honest, do not expect to find parties that will fully clear T2s or fight some bosses the legit way. When you do, they will usually be new guys that don't know the tricks and you will wipe forever. Forgive my bluntness, but this is the truth in NW for now: either "experienced" runs, either big GS with amazing enchants, skill and gear to overpower monsters in a legit way... either wipes for an eternity.

ladysylvia · September 2013

yokihiro wrote: »

i play a dc, too. 3 weeks or so playing, mainly pugging. i see the same problems. but mainly - and that is unfortunately in most mmos the problem - it is because everyone things the best player in the end is defined by damage dealt and mobs killed. this forces rambo playstyle. i have played in groups where literally no one hit the adds but all just wanted to nuke the boss to be the one without that the boss would not be dead in the end. but they forget while doing this that most parties wipe to adds, not to the boss. and i wiped a lot in such teams. best you can do then is just leaving the party. without a healer they are screwed anyway and some people won't learn it unless they go the hard way. i have often written in chat "ok guys, this time pls add control" and then ppl did the very same thing - all on the boss. then healer died, i shout help and see people still attacking the boss because they don't want to give up dpsing. just leave, maybe they learn then the next time.

Sometimes i'm really think zombies are true. Or what the brainless player behind the char are? GF tank the boss - yeah im the gf. Boss has no really threat against anything with brain. So i MUST tank him? NO! IF i can kill the adds faster, than it's better for the group. Because Mobs, especially with ranged attack/big aoe, are even worse then a boss. The Tr die, but it's my fail? Every would say NO. It was the first boss in ToS. That one with an attack, which hit front, side and back of him in a small aoe. So it doesn't matter if i tank him, if the tr are stupid enough to stand direct behind him til this attack. Not one time, two times even more! That he die because he don't avoid that aoe-hit isn't my fail. On FH on my *** was all the big mobs. But i don't die. The healer only have to heal me all the time. The other only have to pot if they fail to avoid hinmirs aoes. ^^

kozi001 · September 2013

Mad Dragon is pretty hard now. I am doing T2 dungeons regularly but this T1 is harder. Maybe it's because of the group but it's harder to do than some T2 bosses.

If I were you I'd just buy that set item and skip it and do T2 instead.

inthefade462 · September 2013

The heart of the issue is the Feywild patch. With BOP, the only people running dungeons now on DD are people who are undergeared, inexperienced, or both. With the stalwart nerf, nobody with any experience runs T1 dungeons ever. Atleast with T2s, you can luck out in end up in a group full of "alts", people with experience gearing up their 2nd/3rd/4th/etc class. But with those 2 changes, running T1's you're guaranteed to get completely new, inexperienced, undergeared players. Just skip T1 entirely, you can get 9k gs wearing blue drops and cheap HAMSTER purples from AH for under 10k total AD. It's easier than farming for pvp gear really.

Cleric is a pretty easy class to play but very, very rare so you are much better off than some other classes. You can get into T2 /lfg groups pretty easily as long as your gs is high enough to enter dungeons. especially with it being so much harder to form groups for dungeon runs no one is (and no one really should) be that particular of the GS of the cleric, you are not very gear dependent to perform your primary function (healing), gearing up for cleric is just about increasing your survivability anyway.

slushpsycho · September 2013

U can't.
9k gs unexp pug simply get trashed in T2, some can't even do mad dragon or last boss in wolf den.
It has been a nightmare since the BOP change, every old player only run with guild or group they know, so normal pug are usually made of players that are as fresh as yourself, and u will fail, 95% of the time let's say.

Epic Dungeons in pug - how to ?

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