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Alchemy is frustrating
yokihiro
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 510 Bounty Hunter
Alchemy really needs a look. The mechanic that you cannot level Alchemy like any other profession by crafting stuff and that you can only level it by luck when your experimentations give you the knowledge you need really frustrates me lately. Since some days I do nothing else but try to finish rank 14 experimentation. It takes a very long time to only craft all the prerequisites you need and then, when you finally have everything you need, you will probably just fail and only receive the unstable potion! And you have to gather 3 knowledges to proceed to the next level. I am at 1 at the moment!
Really this is more than annoying. While you can level other professions by crafting stuff you or others can (or might - in theory) use you cannot just craft Alchemy along during adventuring, make some potions and level - no you have to finish those stupid repetitive tasks and always get a huge slap in the face when just an unstable potion is the result of all the time you wasted!
The mechanic of prerequisites is annoying enough (by the way: Everquest 2 removed that mechanic after some time because they saw, that it is absolutely no fun to craft silly stuff only to craft the final product - so other games show that you can do it more player-friendly), but Alchemy really goes over the top with frustration and annoyance!
In the time I try to level 1 level in Alchemy in this game I can easily gain 10 levels in adventuring and this also needs a major look because crafting should help you on your adventuring way. What is the sense in being 60 in one week and are stuck at level 14 in one profession since 3 weeks???
Really this is more than annoying. While you can level other professions by crafting stuff you or others can (or might - in theory) use you cannot just craft Alchemy along during adventuring, make some potions and level - no you have to finish those stupid repetitive tasks and always get a huge slap in the face when just an unstable potion is the result of all the time you wasted!
The mechanic of prerequisites is annoying enough (by the way: Everquest 2 removed that mechanic after some time because they saw, that it is absolutely no fun to craft silly stuff only to craft the final product - so other games show that you can do it more player-friendly), but Alchemy really goes over the top with frustration and annoyance!
In the time I try to level 1 level in Alchemy in this game I can easily gain 10 levels in adventuring and this also needs a major look because crafting should help you on your adventuring way. What is the sense in being 60 in one week and are stuck at level 14 in one profession since 3 weeks???
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Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
*edit: for the record, i did not buy anything with real money towards this purpose. all exchanges were with in-game acquired currency. and i have two green alchemists, one master alchemist, one mixologist and four apothecaries. i also have two iron crucibles and one iron philosopher's stone.
*edit two: also when alchemy first went live, the potions and elixirs that are required to level up went up a little in price on the AH but last i looked they had gone back down. it might be in your best interest to buy or farm for these items instead of spending the mechanical time of trying to create them one at a time. or in mass quantities during the chance it might be one of the rare tasks.
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Really? I've never attempted but I assumed it was like the other professions and that you could queue more than one of that task at a time. That just makes it even more annoying than it already was.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
I'm not at the level for it yet but IIRC dyes are indeed a rare / cyclic task. If you only get two bottles per task, then the reason you normally see them on the AH in stacks of 6 is because people queue up 3 of that task to run at once so they get more bottles at a time.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
I don't make any of the potions and elixirs, just farm them or buy on the AH. I'm finding the AH buyouts cost less AD than I'm earning through 3 x day invocations right now, and my Alchy has reached 16. As I level past them I'm sending the excess to an alt who will level it next.
You do have to keep up an assembly line of vitriols -> aqua vitae -> aqua regia. Don't forget that you can have your weaponsmith gather wood (and ore), and leatherworker gather pelts, and both earn XP for gathering, in order to feed an alchemist's vitriol manufacture habit.
2 for rank 1
4 for rank 2
6 for rank 3
however Alchemy is really only good for gaining an extra crafting slot... beyond that, fairly useless.
Please tell me where and how you farm them. I'vebeen to the level appropriate areas for the minor pots and they NEVER drop anymore. Not from mobs or chests.
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I think there's diminishing returns on loot when you're over the level for the area. I farm them with lower level alts appropriate to the area.
Every other profession there is SOME way to eventually hit a profit.
Alchemy is just purely a diamond drain that never gives back.
Reason is while the level 20 potions are useful - they are extremely expensive in terms of resources required to make them. In fact every single recipe in alchemy always requires more total resources to make then it gives back. Thats just poor design. EG: All the good potions require at least 2 aqua regia - which sells for about 1000 diamonds a piece, but none of the potions created are worth over 2k.
It's just bad design. It's quite a grind to 20, but you never really feel rewarded.
Main reason I even leveled it was I wanted the 3rd lvl20 prof slot unlocked.
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The potions you could make drop so often that you just need to go out and run a dungeon or skirmish. The time you would have to invest to make 1 single potion is just insane in comparison.
In my opinion crafters should make stuff that have a use in the game and an Alchemist could do so much - for example:
- Molotow cocktails to throw and deal area damage (longer cooldown)
- Speed potions (to run faster, for all those new players without a mount yet)
- Teleport potions (back to Protector's Enclave)
- Teleport potions (to one of your party members)
- Enchant potions (spray on one weapon to give it a short damage buff, like additional poison damage - not stacking, also quite nice for new players without real enchants)
- Shrink/enlarge potions with buffs to strength or dexterity
- Invisibility potions (like the cloak you receive ingame to sneak past mobs)
- XP potions (+1% XP gain for a short duration, not stacking)
- Resistance potions
- Anti-threat potions (lower threat by 3%)
- Fluff stuff like transformation potions (into animals or whatever - breaking when in combat)
...
so instead of having to hunt or buy the components, you just convert the ones you don't want to make the ones you do
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I'll try a lowbie anyway.
- JailBreak (in development)
Other than solvent and some initial investment in a bunch of worn tools, absolutely everything about making stuff with alchemy can be free. You just have to take a look at what's actually worth selling, exactly like profiting from armor crafting without investing in purple tools.
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So no need to invest in any tools (although the crucible is a shared tool with artificing).
At level 20 alch.. u can make Major Flask of Potency (+225 to crit, recovery, power; & +7.5% crit severity for 30mins) and Major Flask of Protection (+225 def, deflect; & 1k HP for 30mins) as common white tasks any time which is pretty awesome for use during DD. Or u can resell for around 2k a pot.
for resale, it's a poor investment, since people normally will not buy them for the production costs.
They'r good, but hugely expensive. And horribly time consuming to make.
Best fact about getting lvl 20 alchemy, was getting the extra prof.slot ;D
I might do alchemy profs again at a later date? dunno, but currently i doubt I'll spend more time on it.
Off the top of my head...
1) Keep buff pots while adventuring as most are used as ingredients, don't use them for playing unless you really need to.
2) While 'Research' is running, look ahead to the next level and start prepping the pots you need for that. Get making them.
3) If you have several alts, stockpile all the buff pots on one character. Look at what's needed for the next 2 levels and send all the buff pots that are needed for ingredients to that character. Because bag space is for most people an issue, its storage-effective to do it this way. I store the buff pots on my toon with the most bag space and only send what's needed for the next 2-3 levels to the character skilling up.
4) Make sure you have all the profession resources (quicksilver, solvent, etc) for the next few levels before you log off if you intend to use the gateway.
5) 'Gather' while you are playing, 'Mass' produce while you are offline. Its more efficient on materials that way. However, Simple Vitriol Extraction is not expensive and is worth running while you are active. Similarly, I produce advanced components mainly so I can do Empowered Vitriol Extraction, which is a good time-saver when you need to make lots of Aqua Regia later on. I know it doesn't technically save you any time at all in terms of production time, but it saves faffing around, uses slightly less gold-cost materials and makes it easier on the button-clicking.
6) You do not need anything more than simple and advanced components for skilling up. Don't waste time on Complex components unless you need them as you approach cap level.
7) Don't make pots that are not needed for skilling up. You'll get a lot of health pots while adventuring and these can be topped up easily by small purchases here and there. Save your precious ingredients for skilling up to prevent time wastage on non-skillup activities.
I don't buy pots on the AH. I think I did it once quite a while back but I find it more effcient to plan my crafting and just make the stuff.
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6 is the tier 3 result. To get a better result, you need high quality tools that cost an awful lot of money. 4 is the mid result. With store bought tools, you have a slight chance to get 4. With all blue quality tools, you usually get 4. With 1 purple tool or more and the rest blue, you start to get 6 at a time. Dunno if it is the festival buy dye prices are up slightly it seems, I sold a few over the weekend.
Alchemy may be frustrating but it is still much easier to level than anything else. I have been 20 in alchemy since not long after it came out. I am 19 in leadership after nearly 10 times the amount of hours spent on it.
After you have ONE well equipped alchemist, additional characters are easier. The rank 20 character can feed the others by doing bulk potion crafting or bulk aqua vitae crafting etc.
Never need to buy pots on the AH for levelling alchemy if you've an alt or two or don't use the potions the game spits out unless you really need an edge for a boss fight. Most of those fights are about avoiding stuff on the floor and watching for adds and potions dont aid you with either, they just make the adds come a shade faster.
I've levelled alchemy to 20 and while I did have alts producing vitriols most of the time sink was down to the awful reliance on an rng to give you the scroll item. Around prof level 10 it took most of a week to get to the next level whereas 15+ I was pretty much getting a level a day with 2 prof slots dedicated to making the higher grade aquas.
The regia's really need an empowered version to lessen the grind.
Now if only the rewards were reflected by the time it took to run a task the profession might actually be useful.