So much QQ and the class is just fine. Unstoppable was bugged and is now fixed so L2P your class and stop standing in RED.
[/SARCASM ON]
Dude you're crazy! so just STFU! We can't dps! We cant tank! We dont have utility! We can't generate threat! We are not even allowed to join parties and hold the purses of the other 4! You must know nothing about the class to say that it is fine. We the elites of elites, the ones that sleep, eat, and drink GWF, know better. All other classes are way better than ours.[/SARCASM]
I think I covered all the replies you will get. The constant negativism in these threads is suffocating. Thanks for the fresh air.
I don't want agro. and yes I spike well over 100k with avalanche. After all it has no target cap.
Not knocking you but I have 5/5 AP gain during unstoppable. I don't get hit much. Therefore no determination, ergo no AP.
Also my capstone says if I get hit I lose my capstone.
Ok, then there are other issues. I know you want to play an AOE dps class. But the fact is GWF, the way the mechanics work, needs to be played as a tank taking lots of damage. So you're not getting hit much and worried about AP gain but not Determination? To us Determination is 10x more important than AP. The more damage we take the more effective we get. And that is why I built mine with 11% LifeSteal. I am doing 600k-1mil in heals on my own without using pots. 90% of the time I am in Unstoppable.
And YES I agree with you that Instigator's capstone SUCKS, and it NEEDS to change. Like I said before many times, the class has some issues. I acknowledge that there are some Powers and Feats that need some attention, one of which is what you are complaining about.
So much QQ and the class is just fine. Unstoppable was bugged and is now fixed so L2P your class and stop standing in RED.
PLEASE GIVE ME VIABLE GWF BUILD THAT CAN TOP DAMAGE AND BE VIABLE IN PVP? coz putting randomly feats is better then 13gs pve.how is that fine lol that your class can do it all and gwf can only one thing mediocre.
PLEASE GIVE ME VIABLE GWF BUILD THAT CAN TOP DAMAGE AND BE VIABLE IN PVP? coz putting randomly feats is better then 13gs pve.how is that fine lol that your class can do it all and gwf can only one thing mediocre.
You need to have (2) GWFs:
1. PvP Build
2. PvE Build
I have 5 GF's with different builds but only use (2) of them currently:
1. Halfling PvP ONLY - Deflect / Regen and build posted on my guide
2. Human PvE ONLY - Knight Cap Hybrid DPS / Tank Life Steal build posted on my guide
It only takes a few days to level up a new GWF and if you want to both PvE & PvP then you need (2) Characters with 2 different sets of gear.
1. GWF - Halfling PvP Only - Sentinel Deflect/Regen with G-Tene's
2. GWF - Any Race PvE - Destroyer Power Stacking
You can't be both Godly PvP and PvE using 1 character. You need to build for PvP or PvE to be top in both.
I have 5 GF's with different builds but only use (2) of them currently:
1. Halfling PvP ONLY - Deflect / Regen and build posted on my guide
2. Human PvE ONLY - Knight Cap Hybrid DPS / Tank Life Steal build posted on my guide
It only takes a few days to level up a new GWF and if you want to both PvE & PvP then you need (2) Characters with 2 different sets of gear.
1. GWF - Halfling PvP Only - Sentinel Deflect/Regen with G-Tene's
2. GWF - Any Race PvE - Destroyer Power Stacking
You can't be both Godly PvP and PvE using 1 character. You need to build for PvP or PvE to be top in both.
now that is what i wanted to hear from you.all classes need one build that they can play and enjoy go to dungeon when ever they want but gwf needs 2 of them.but thats not all they need to be best equipt possible while....
"You do not need to use the high level enchantments for this build to work." High Health / Regeneration Tank (PvP & PvE Tank) by you.....
gf needs only one build that can earn ad do pvp in other words have fun.and that is good balance?
THIS IS WHAT I CALL checkmate my friend
You know all this talk about damage and numbers and **** of GWF boils down to one thing: We are not as useful in PVE than other classes.
Proof? Check the LFG channel:
Need CW, TR, GF, DC for <insert dungeon here>
I rarely see a GWF being needed. Haven't seen one in the last month.
It's because the party already has their GWF and is looking for a "GF to tank, DC to heal, CW to sing mobs or TR to Wicked/DPS"
I've seen party's run 3 CW's or 2 TRs and lol at how bad their damage is at the end of the run. Inexperienced players think GWF is a bad class but actually they are amazing AoE DPS class. The issue is pugs prefer to have a 2nd or 3rd CW to compensate for their inability to kill trash, so they CC trash to death. This causes really long runs compared to have Heavy AoE DPS with 1 CW.
they basically mean to say, you need to take the dps tree to tank, not the tanking tree to build threat. Not sure why some people think thats fine.
I didn't say "You need" to take the dps tree. I personally found it easier. This is my logic...there are two core elements to tanking and specifically in that order, threat generation and survivability. The reason I value threat generation more is because it is the only thing that no other party member can assist me with. Survivability, is secondary because there is usually a healer that helps with that, then also hopefully a competent CW to mitigate some of the damage by way of CC.
As a Destroyer using a 4/4 Vigilant Set, stacking Lifesteal, I found that I do not lack an ounce in survivability in any T2. Of course if I compare my GWF to a dedicated Sentinel GWF, the Sentinel will have more mitigation. But to me, and with the current content, I found that this extra mitigation that the Sentinel brings, is frankly overkill. Where this mitigation comes in handy is of course in PvP.
Now when it comes to threat generation, Sentinel gains more threat when using Sure Strike. To me, that is a waste of threat generation on a feat. Most of the time, particularly on trash, we're not using Sure Strike. It is mainly used on Bosses during Unstoppable or Elites when everything else is killed. Two situation where getting aggro is really not important at all. Any class can easily dodge/tank/solo Bosses and Elites if the rest of the adds are being taken care of.
Another feat that Sentinel has for threat affect Daring Shout and CaGI. Daring Shout, I like, and slot it often (although not always), but CaGI has been such a disappointment to me that I dont even invest any points in it. Regardless, 100% extra threat on Encounters that generate insignificant damage, to me, is not good. The Third feat adds threat to Slam and Spinning Strike. After the damage nerf of Slam, it is even less effective at generating threat.
So I find the the extra damage I generate using the Destroyer tree, provides more raw threat than the feats I mention above. And that is why using my playstyle, I am finding going that route more efficient.
That said, if a properly geared Sentinel is capable of holding aggro within PUGs or with his group of buddies/guildies, and I am sure it is possible, then all is good. Although I feel it may require a better gear setup than what I currently have to generate comparable dps. In fact, if the threat generation of Sentinel is boosted by say 25% across the board, I probably would respec back to it.
So your argument against everything I said, is that I am constantly running with morons who dont know their class and dont know their dungeons; practically a bunch of idiots standing there not doing much. Yet we are clearing all T2s and farming CN. You know what they say about ASSumptions? and you're calling my argument silly?
How many mobs have AoEs and Cleaves? are you serious? Of course since you can run Malabog with nothing but greens, then everything I am referring to is trivial to you. Also it seems you dont have much practice with Roar, it is not just an interrupt but a daze as well. So it is not just 1 second, but more like 2-3sec that you are disabling a group of mobs, in a 8.6. That's almost half the cooldown of a CW's Steal Time.
Yep, I totally wrote that I can do Malabog in greens.
I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.
My post focused on a single argument of what you provided - that you're really great at reviving party members and that they couldn't have done the run without you running into AoE to save them. Groups that clear CN without GWFs must surely be using hacks.
The rest of what you "said" was not worth responding to, as you refute yourself in the very same post.
Yep, I totally wrote that I can do Malabog in greens.
I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.
My post focused on a single argument of what you provided - that you're really great at reviving party members and that they couldn't have done the run without you running into AoE to save them. Groups that clear CN without GWFs must surely be using hacks.
The rest of what you "said" was not worth responding to, as you refute yourself in the very same post.
You're whole post was to make yourself look petty. You honestly feel that was an argument? I listed at least 5 things a GWF does decently, and you just took ONE of them and made it seem as if this is the ONLY thing a GWF is good at, just for sarcasm's sake. To top it off, you have the audacity to tell me to work on my reading comprehension.
Using your amazing insight, I can also say then that groups that clear CN (speed runs as well) using 2xGWFs and no TRs are hacks too. The point that seems to go over your head is...I never claimed or said a GWF is a MUST have or a "needed" class in ANY run. What I have been trying to explain, is that taking one or even two, is not going to make a 30min CN farm turn into an hour run, or any T2 for that matter. You want to run 4xCWs and 1DC (or whatever combo mix), go right ahead. I'll take my GWF on any run, then on my CW I will take a GWF on any run.
hahahaha good one then why farm like crazy do exploits.why are all nerfs revolving abouth pvp then? this game like any other is a ego boost game and 99% pvp game. you are just afraid to roll with the big boys and keep your distance as a pve gwf.and there is no such thing.and again destroyer cant be viable for pve,pve in the same build not by a long shot.
Because as in most MMOS, PvPers are that the ones that whine and cry the most, and loudest.
they were near perfect pre-feywild patch. They went and messed them up again.
What they need is thier utility skills buffed
-Not So Fast -increased damage and radius)
-Mighty Leap - Longer immunity during animation jumping
-Come and Get It - Increased radius, damage buff longer
-Punishing Charge- Increased range and/or damage
-Daring Shout- Increased cone range and damage resistance
-Restoring Strike- Having a slight heal increase. (the heal is very low for an encounter ability, a GF Crushing surge heals just as much and it is an At-Will )
-Slam- The damage it gives can stay the same, but its duration needs to be the same as it was before, if not a second or two longer. Not shorter.
-Reaping Strike- damage boost and increased determination gain while charging. (the damage can remain split between multiple targets as it is currently as long as the hit cap is removed), An alternative to the previous, the full power charge of this move could provide knock back instead with twice the distance Shout gives.
General things:
-Hit caps removed-
-Unstoppable reverted exactly like it was before pre-feywild patch- (minus the occasional bug that permenantly prevents its use until log out or zone change)
-Steel Blitz- chance rate increased-
-Powerful Challenge- Marked targets no longer dissappear when damaged, but dissappear after a set amount of time, but do not stack with new marks until old ones time has run out.
These are more going to in the right direction with GWF. Changes like these widens and encourages differing playstyles without inhibiting the class as a whole. Changes like the ones I stated above will put the GWF into as close as the vision stated in the first post the closest it will every be.
Totally opposite of the changes implemented in the Feywild patch.
Giving the GWF more utility I think would be a good fix. I would dig them as a Swiss Army Knife type class.
Imo they should be more of a debuff oriented tank, so they are able to up theirs and party members dmg. While GF's and Clerics keep having more defensive buffs. Imo it could be good for everyone to have multiple purpose. Cleric: Heals and Dmg mitigration GF: Dmg Mitigration and Crowd Controll. CW: Crowd controll and debuffs. GWF: Melee Debuffs and dmg, TR: Ranged and melee dmg.
Moast of the the roles allready fit their classes. It's just GWF's that need better Debuffs, and less Crowd Controll, Ofc everyone should be able to make a pure dps spec aswell. I have no clue how to fit in the Ranger in this tho. Ranged dmg and Heals maybe.
You're whole post was to make yourself look petty. You honestly feel that was an argument? I listed at least 5 things a GWF does decently, and you just took ONE of them and made it seem as if this is the ONLY thing a GWF is good at, just for sarcasm's sake. To top it off, you have the audacity to tell me to work on my reading comprehension.
Using your amazing insight, I can also say then that groups that clear CN (speed runs as well) using 2xGWFs and no TRs are hacks too. The point that seems to go over your head is...I never claimed or said a GWF is a MUST have or a "needed" class in ANY run. What I have been trying to explain, is that taking one or even two, is not going to make a 30min CN farm turn into an hour run, or any T2 for that matter. You want to run 4xCWs and 1DC (or whatever combo mix), go right ahead. I'll take my GWF on any run, then on my CW I will take a GWF on any run.
What if I want to run CN with 4GWF and 1DC?
Also, how did you acquire the T2 (and presumably, T2.5) for your GWF?
Go right ahead. I am sure it will be fun. You wouldn't be the first to try and succeed a Draco fight without punting/bugging red wizards. You want to make a logical argument? Ask the Devs to change the quirky Boss fight mechanics, instead of getting on the badwagon of the GWF being a dead class.
Also, how did you acquire the T2 (and presumably, T2.5) for your GWF?
Seeing how this is EXTREMELY relevant to this thread, and knowing you have some really good reason for asking this and eventually stomp me on your next reply with it, I will play along. I bought the bracers on my vigilant set, and got the other 3 pieces off of DD chests. I also farmed DDs for AoW set, and I have 3/4 of the pieces. I haven't been lucky with the handful of times I ran Malabog, so all I got in the 5 runs are seals. I am hoping your next question isn't about how I got my enchants on the GWF.
It's because the party already has their GWF and is looking for a "GF to tank, DC to heal, CW to sing mobs or TR to Wicked/DPS"
I've seen party's run 3 CW's or 2 TRs and lol at how bad their damage is at the end of the run. Inexperienced players think GWF is a bad class but actually they are amazing AoE DPS class. The issue is pugs prefer to have a 2nd or 3rd CW to compensate for their inability to kill trash, so they CC trash to death. This causes really long runs compared to have Heavy AoE DPS with 1 CW.
I agree. The problem is how this can be shown to other players when they can complete the run without a GWF. CWs are already a must for some dungeon(Spellplague). The way things are going right now, GWF are good to have but not necessary. That's the problem.
I know I would like it if they reworked the Instigator Capstone to something AOE friendly, it is the capstone.
Multiples are starting to pile up on you, make it time to AOE shine.
Go right ahead. I am sure it will be fun. You wouldn't be the first to try and succeed a Draco fight without punting/bugging red wizards. You want to make a logical argument? Ask the Devs to change the quirky Boss fight mechanics, instead of getting on the badwagon of the GWF being a dead class.
Seeing how this is EXTREMELY relevant to this thread, and knowing you have some really good reason for asking this and eventually stomp me on your next reply with it, I will play along.
My reason for asking it was that I think that there's a difference between entering a dungeon to gear up and entering it to just clear it, having already obtained all upgrades you could possibly have from it.
Anyway, you proved me completely wrong in that regard, having steadily progressed with gearing up from actually doing the instances, which can only mean that the problems I'm seeing are not as much the class, as it is with me, my playstyle and perhaps feat choices. I don't mind admitting that I'm wrong.
Comments
[/SARCASM ON]
Dude you're crazy! so just STFU! We can't dps! We cant tank! We dont have utility! We can't generate threat! We are not even allowed to join parties and hold the purses of the other 4! You must know nothing about the class to say that it is fine. We the elites of elites, the ones that sleep, eat, and drink GWF, know better. All other classes are way better than ours.[/SARCASM]
I think I covered all the replies you will get. The constant negativism in these threads is suffocating. Thanks for the fresh air.
Ok, then there are other issues. I know you want to play an AOE dps class. But the fact is GWF, the way the mechanics work, needs to be played as a tank taking lots of damage. So you're not getting hit much and worried about AP gain but not Determination? To us Determination is 10x more important than AP. The more damage we take the more effective we get. And that is why I built mine with 11% LifeSteal. I am doing 600k-1mil in heals on my own without using pots. 90% of the time I am in Unstoppable.
And YES I agree with you that Instigator's capstone SUCKS, and it NEEDS to change. Like I said before many times, the class has some issues. I acknowledge that there are some Powers and Feats that need some attention, one of which is what you are complaining about.
PLEASE GIVE ME VIABLE GWF BUILD THAT CAN TOP DAMAGE AND BE VIABLE IN PVP? coz putting randomly feats is better then 13gs pve.how is that fine lol that your class can do it all and gwf can only one thing mediocre.
You need to have (2) GWFs:
1. PvP Build
2. PvE Build
I have 5 GF's with different builds but only use (2) of them currently:
1. Halfling PvP ONLY - Deflect / Regen and build posted on my guide
2. Human PvE ONLY - Knight Cap Hybrid DPS / Tank Life Steal build posted on my guide
It only takes a few days to level up a new GWF and if you want to both PvE & PvP then you need (2) Characters with 2 different sets of gear.
1. GWF - Halfling PvP Only - Sentinel Deflect/Regen with G-Tene's
2. GWF - Any Race PvE - Destroyer Power Stacking
You can't be both Godly PvP and PvE using 1 character. You need to build for PvP or PvE to be top in both.
now that is what i wanted to hear from you.all classes need one build that they can play and enjoy go to dungeon when ever they want but gwf needs 2 of them.but thats not all they need to be best equipt possible while....
"You do not need to use the high level enchantments for this build to work." High Health / Regeneration Tank (PvP & PvE Tank) by you.....
gf needs only one build that can earn ad do pvp in other words have fun.and that is good balance?
THIS IS WHAT I CALL checkmate my friend
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Proof? Check the LFG channel:
Need CW, TR, GF, DC for <insert dungeon here>
I rarely see a GWF being needed. Haven't seen one in the last month.
It's because the party already has their GWF and is looking for a "GF to tank, DC to heal, CW to sing mobs or TR to Wicked/DPS"
I've seen party's run 3 CW's or 2 TRs and lol at how bad their damage is at the end of the run. Inexperienced players think GWF is a bad class but actually they are amazing AoE DPS class. The issue is pugs prefer to have a 2nd or 3rd CW to compensate for their inability to kill trash, so they CC trash to death. This causes really long runs compared to have Heavy AoE DPS with 1 CW.
I didn't say "You need" to take the dps tree. I personally found it easier. This is my logic...there are two core elements to tanking and specifically in that order, threat generation and survivability. The reason I value threat generation more is because it is the only thing that no other party member can assist me with. Survivability, is secondary because there is usually a healer that helps with that, then also hopefully a competent CW to mitigate some of the damage by way of CC.
As a Destroyer using a 4/4 Vigilant Set, stacking Lifesteal, I found that I do not lack an ounce in survivability in any T2. Of course if I compare my GWF to a dedicated Sentinel GWF, the Sentinel will have more mitigation. But to me, and with the current content, I found that this extra mitigation that the Sentinel brings, is frankly overkill. Where this mitigation comes in handy is of course in PvP.
Now when it comes to threat generation, Sentinel gains more threat when using Sure Strike. To me, that is a waste of threat generation on a feat. Most of the time, particularly on trash, we're not using Sure Strike. It is mainly used on Bosses during Unstoppable or Elites when everything else is killed. Two situation where getting aggro is really not important at all. Any class can easily dodge/tank/solo Bosses and Elites if the rest of the adds are being taken care of.
Another feat that Sentinel has for threat affect Daring Shout and CaGI. Daring Shout, I like, and slot it often (although not always), but CaGI has been such a disappointment to me that I dont even invest any points in it. Regardless, 100% extra threat on Encounters that generate insignificant damage, to me, is not good. The Third feat adds threat to Slam and Spinning Strike. After the damage nerf of Slam, it is even less effective at generating threat.
So I find the the extra damage I generate using the Destroyer tree, provides more raw threat than the feats I mention above. And that is why using my playstyle, I am finding going that route more efficient.
That said, if a properly geared Sentinel is capable of holding aggro within PUGs or with his group of buddies/guildies, and I am sure it is possible, then all is good. Although I feel it may require a better gear setup than what I currently have to generate comparable dps. In fact, if the threat generation of Sentinel is boosted by say 25% across the board, I probably would respec back to it.
I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.
My post focused on a single argument of what you provided - that you're really great at reviving party members and that they couldn't have done the run without you running into AoE to save them. Groups that clear CN without GWFs must surely be using hacks.
The rest of what you "said" was not worth responding to, as you refute yourself in the very same post.
There now everyone is happy and we can all hold hands to sing kumbaya.
You're whole post was to make yourself look petty. You honestly feel that was an argument? I listed at least 5 things a GWF does decently, and you just took ONE of them and made it seem as if this is the ONLY thing a GWF is good at, just for sarcasm's sake. To top it off, you have the audacity to tell me to work on my reading comprehension.
Using your amazing insight, I can also say then that groups that clear CN (speed runs as well) using 2xGWFs and no TRs are hacks too. The point that seems to go over your head is...I never claimed or said a GWF is a MUST have or a "needed" class in ANY run. What I have been trying to explain, is that taking one or even two, is not going to make a 30min CN farm turn into an hour run, or any T2 for that matter. You want to run 4xCWs and 1DC (or whatever combo mix), go right ahead. I'll take my GWF on any run, then on my CW I will take a GWF on any run.
Because as in most MMOS, PvPers are that the ones that whine and cry the most, and loudest.
Duh.
:rolleyes:
As for changes I really like these ideas:
Giving the GWF more utility I think would be a good fix. I would dig them as a Swiss Army Knife type class.
Don't let the join date fool you
Moast of the the roles allready fit their classes. It's just GWF's that need better Debuffs, and less Crowd Controll, Ofc everyone should be able to make a pure dps spec aswell. I have no clue how to fit in the Ranger in this tho. Ranged dmg and Heals maybe.
Also, how did you acquire the T2 (and presumably, T2.5) for your GWF?
Go right ahead. I am sure it will be fun. You wouldn't be the first to try and succeed a Draco fight without punting/bugging red wizards. You want to make a logical argument? Ask the Devs to change the quirky Boss fight mechanics, instead of getting on the badwagon of the GWF being a dead class.
Seeing how this is EXTREMELY relevant to this thread, and knowing you have some really good reason for asking this and eventually stomp me on your next reply with it, I will play along. I bought the bracers on my vigilant set, and got the other 3 pieces off of DD chests. I also farmed DDs for AoW set, and I have 3/4 of the pieces. I haven't been lucky with the handful of times I ran Malabog, so all I got in the 5 runs are seals. I am hoping your next question isn't about how I got my enchants on the GWF.
Limiting AP generation to 1 target on certain GWF encounters (looking at you Roar) is what stops the class from reaching full potential.
The hardest hit is the AOE DPS role.
I agree. The problem is how this can be shown to other players when they can complete the run without a GWF. CWs are already a must for some dungeon(Spellplague). The way things are going right now, GWF are good to have but not necessary. That's the problem.
Multiples are starting to pile up on you, make it time to AOE shine.
Anyway, you proved me completely wrong in that regard, having steadily progressed with gearing up from actually doing the instances, which can only mean that the problems I'm seeing are not as much the class, as it is with me, my playstyle and perhaps feat choices. I don't mind admitting that I'm wrong.