ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
50-200K is, effectively, 2-6 days of farming astral diamonds for a full set of gear.
That's an abomination. With those prices the game would die within days of reaching level 60.
When you compare prices you have to compare exactly how much time it takes to get said value. I've played games where 50-200K was a lot, NW is not one of them, and I have played games where millions was chump change.
These changes only effect the Dungeon Delve Chest. Anything which comes out of the Dungeon Delve Chest is BoP but is guaranteed to be usable by you and you may also select between three different items. All boss drops have remained BoE.
Not true. Seen lots of boss drops that are bind on pickup...
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
Those would be bugs. Some of them inexcusably long standing. When you hover over the boss drops which do BoP they are all stated to be BoE.
50-200K is, effectively, 2-6 days of farming astral diamonds for a full set of gear.
That's an abomination. With those prices the game would die within days of reaching level 60.
When you compare prices you have to compare exactly how much time it takes to get said value. I've played games where 50-200K was a lot, NW is not one of them, and I have played games where millions was chump change.
Unlike you, much, I would even say most of the NW community doesn't have 48 hours of farming time a week. So no, its not an "abomination." I'm sometimes lucky to get on 4 hours a day. I know many, many players who are lucky to get on 4 hours a week. The absurd prices in this game make it a ton less fun.
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tang56Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
50-200K is, effectively, 2-6 days of farming astral diamonds for a full set of gear.
That's an abomination. With those prices the game would die within days of reaching level 60.
When you compare prices you have to compare exactly how much time it takes to get said value. I've played games where 50-200K was a lot, NW is not one of them, and I have played games where millions was chump change.
I see some set items selling for 2.5mill+ That's 104 days of maxed refining for one item. In that time you will almost certainly have completed the dungeon or given up due to the fustating gear gating of the more difficult T2 dungeons. That's simply absurd for the casual player.
Prices are going to have to come down, because the majority of the playerbase simply can't afford the items as priced currently(and transmute, unsocketing, mount and companion upgrades are still a joke).
RIP Neverwinter 26/06/2014
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
With the recent changes you can cap out well within four hours. Honestly you can cap out within three.
It might require you to do some things you don't particularly care for but it's easy and well within possibility.
I see some set items selling for 2.5mill+ That's 104 days of maxed refining for one item. In that time you will almost certainly have completed the dungeon or given up due to the fustating gear gating of the more difficult T2 dungeons. That's simply absurd for the casual player.
You're right. That will likely stabilize in time though.
Some pieces will be cheaper than others. Some will be more. Like always. And the difficulty of the run and how many people can/will do them will determine the prices alongside how much people have to spend.
These changes only effect the Dungeon Delve Chest. Anything which comes out of the Dungeon Delve Chest is BoP but is guaranteed to be usable by you and you may also select between three different items. All boss drops have remained BoE.
Then, you better check out Malabog boss drops because they are BoP too. Hmmm..
Ok, I'm a little confused by this, are you insisting the prices should be higher so it would take lvl 60 players longer to grind up the AD to buy that gear, ensuring they stay in game?
With all due respect, if all you have to really look forward to at lvl 60 is grinding for gear with nothing worthwhile to use it on, then your game is already dead. Otherwise why not just DO that content anyway and earn that gear or better that way?
The only reason these prices are so high is because of the founder packs (as both of them gave large amounts of AD and so did this new fey pack), as prices for almost everything have been 2 mil or more because those in open beta knew there were loads of players who bought the packs and had it, so they could set their prices that high. If these prices only just NOW showed up in game I'd believe you, but since they've been this way on MANY items in the AH since the first day of Open Beta it's not hard to see. Normally a health game Economy in a new game slowly ramps up, but this one has been sky high in every way since open beta day one (AH, WB, little changes requiring AD)
50-200K is, effectively, 2-6 days of farming astral diamonds for a full set of gear.
That's an abomination. With those prices the game would die within days of reaching level 60.
When you compare prices you have to compare exactly how much time it takes to get said value. I've played games where 50-200K was a lot, NW is not one of them, and I have played games where millions was chump change.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
Tidalwave,
Yeah, more content to do would be nice...but that content would need rewards because there's PLENTY to do because of the Foundry but the rewards are lacking so many players, sadly, do not take advantage of the near unlimited gameplay.
It's a catch 22. Players want rewards and the only items of any value to other players is gear...
But there are only so many people who need gear...and after they get the gear they simply accelerate the contribution of gear to the market. It's the same effect as a snowball rolling down a hill and it's only a mateer of time before it gets too big to sustane itself.
There's plenty of content if you don't care about the rewards. Content, no offense devs, much better than the official content...
But the bottom line is people want rewards...
And no matter how much content is added to the game people won't play it if the rewards are lacking...
And making rewards other than gear valuable is no simple task.
But the bottom line is people want rewards...
And no matter how much content is added to the game people won't play it if the rewards are lacking...
And making rewards other than gear valuable is no simple task.
I'd do content for BoP/one time drop cosmetic items. Ex:
Mount dyes(or similar)
Fashion items that aren't just more head gear
Free transmute tokens
Player housing questing and drops related to furnishing your player house
Guild Hall questing
I'm sure people can think of more rewards that aren't just "MOAR GEARZ!!!" PWE/Cryptic just aren't being imaginative enough or are locking all that stuff out for the cash shop only.
First off, isn't the Foundry broken right now since the last patch? That's all I keep hearing about here and in game so I'm not sure that means much right now. Also you make it sound like there are only so many players and so many characters and they'd all get geared out quickly at decent fair prices on the AH. I'd be sure there aren't only new players showing up each day (no matter how big or small that amount of people are) but also plenty of ALTS floating around for most if not all players as well, I have 4 characters in all myself out of the 7 I can have. Wouldn't that in it self help to create a steady amount of demand for gear...practically indefinately? Seems to me like bags, mounts, and companions are also items of value to other players as well.
Yeah, more content to do would be nice...but that content would need rewards because there's PLENTY to do because of the Foundry but the rewards are lacking so many players, sadly, do not take advantage of the near unlimited gameplay.
It's a catch 22. Players want rewards and the only items of any value to other players is gear...
But there are only so many people who need gear...and after they get the gear they simply accelerate the contribution of gear to the market. It's the same effect as a snowball rolling down a hill and it's only a mateer of time before it gets too big to sustane itself.
There's plenty of content if you don't care about the rewards. Content, no offense devs, much better than the official content...
But the bottom line is people want rewards...
And no matter how much content is added to the game people won't play it if the rewards are lacking...
And making rewards other than gear valuable is no simple task.
I DON"T want BOP/BOA, I want BOE . I want to be able run/skip part of a dungeon if like trash monster . I don't want play your "look at roses and smell then too". It not my way it's the "table top Rper guys who can't agree on what rules are real kind of play". I want get in and out as fast I can to sell my loot or use it even if it my first time.
"I want cheap and plentiful piles o' loot flying around everywhere like confetti, with minimal effort!"
It's interesting seeing this. And comparing it to the forums of other MMOs I played in the past. Where the hardcore, dungeon/raider, "achievement" guys (NOT the "table top RPer") complained endlessly and bitterly about people being able to get loot without actually needing to carve their way through the dungeons.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
Every one of your drop suggestions is excellent tang...
Problem is...
Those systems don't exist and would take large amounts of time to create. So, as I said, creating rewards other than gear is not easy and much of what they could offer at this time would heavilly impact sales. I do love the transmutation token idea though!
And Free to Play means that you pay for cosmetics. That's what PWE should be charging for. If those aren't charged for more important things which ruin the gameplay of other people will be...and that's...not good. It's borderline as it is and should be steered away from selling anything but cosmetics.
As for the Foundry, it's not broken. I'm getting reports that it is down atm but that's within the last hour. It was down for a day since the patch (most of that was expected) and a bug existed in existing content but poses no detrimental effects and will be resolved early next week hopefully.
It's all temporary and really has absolutely no real significance in whether or not The Foundry supplies gameplay or not.
As for creating alts, the amount of gear being put in far exceeds the number of alts in the game.
That's what I'm saying though, maybe I just don't understand the economy but...if there's plenty of supply currently (and again with all due respect as a forum mod I'm not quite sure how you'd have access that specific information unless you were also a dev as it seems like a complicated thing to data mine and compare for) for all current and possibly future alts and new players, then how would the market eventually crash? Wouldn't a crash only occur if there was no one to buy it at all, say all characters being geared out and no new ones?
In fact, it seems like if the prices were wanted to be higher than 200K, then wouldn't that create the same problem with players taking longer to buy those items, the AH only allowing an auction for about 4 days, and getting frustrated by inflation causing them to seek or settle for gear else where causing AH gear demand to crash?
Every one of your drop suggestions is excellent tang...
Problem is...
Those systems don't exist and would take large amounts of time to create. So, as I said, creating rewards other than gear is not easy and much of what they could offer at this time would heavilly impact sales. I do love the transmutation token idea though!
And Free to Play means that you pay for cosmetics. That's what PWE should be charging for. If those aren't charged for more important things which ruin the gameplay of other people will be...and that's...not good. It's borderline as it is and should be steered away from selling anything but cosmetics.
As for the Foundry, it's not broken. I'm getting reports that it is down atm but that's within the last hour. It was down for a day since the patch (most of that was expected) and a bug existed in existing content but poses no detrimental effects and will be resolved early next week hopefully.
It's all temporary and really has absolutely no real significance in whether or not The Foundry supplies gameplay or not.
As for creating alts, the amount of gear being put in far exceeds the number of alts in the game.
Yeah, more content to do would be nice...but that content would need rewards because there's PLENTY to do because of the Foundry but the rewards are lacking so many players, sadly, do not take advantage of the near unlimited gameplay.
It's a catch 22. Players want rewards and the only items of any value to other players is gear...
But there are only so many people who need gear...and after they get the gear they simply accelerate the contribution of gear to the market. It's the same effect as a snowball rolling down a hill and it's only a mateer of time before it gets too big to sustane itself.
There's plenty of content if you don't care about the rewards. Content, no offense devs, much better than the official content...
But the bottom line is people want rewards...
And no matter how much content is added to the game people won't play it if the rewards are lacking...
And making rewards other than gear valuable is no simple task.
I've rolled a few characters so far... trying to find a class / playstyle I enjoyed.
It's sad to say, I learned that buying blue gear as you level just wasn't worth it... Once I hit 60 all I had to do was spend every AD I earned for my while leveling up to "Gear-up". Really, getting 10k-11k gear score immediately once hitting 60 wasn't tough at all.
To me, that really seemed messed up. I've played as a monk on FFXI... when I finally farmed enough gil to buy a brown belt from the AH.. man I was excited. That's what it should be like! It'll take a few weeks.. but the economy will be better and the feeling of progression sustained once you hit 60. I like the new patch!
Just need those bugs worked out.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I've rolled a few characters so far... trying to find a class / playstyle I enjoyed.
It's sad to say, I learned that buying blue gear as you level just wasn't worth it... Once I hit 60 all I had to do was spend every AD I earned for my while leveling up to "Gear-up". Really, getting 10k-11k gear score immediately once hitting 60 wasn't tough at all.
This is precisely why changes were made to the DD box mechanic. A huge excess of gear in the market trivialized the progression experience for new players to 60.
I've rolled a few characters so far... trying to find a class / playstyle I enjoyed.
It's sad to say, I learned that buying blue gear as you level just wasn't worth it... Once I hit 60 all I had to do was spend every AD I earned for my while leveling up to "Gear-up". Really, getting 10k-11k gear score immediately once hitting 60 wasn't tough at all.
To me, that really seemed messed up. I've played as a monk on FFXI... when I finally farmed enough gil to buy a brown belt from the AH.. man I was excited. That's what it should be like! It'll take a few weeks.. but the economy will be better and the feeling of progression sustained once you hit 60. I like the new patch!
Just need those bugs worked out.
From the way my buddy described Diablo 3, you could buy gear off the Ah equip said gear to clear through harder acts and then turn around and place said gear back on the Ah. Actually it was kind of funny when he told me, because I am so used to online games where gear is bind on equip or bind on pickup. Neverwinter was a step backwards for me in terms of being able to head off to the Ah at level 60 and spend 1.6 million Ad and have my full T2 set without ever having to set foot in a dungeon.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
That was my consensus on feedback question as well, I had seen a lot of people early on expressing their concern about people in groups taking loot that they couldn't even use, whilst someone else in the group could have used it but lost the roll or just basically had it stolen due to the way the loot system worked, so I actually recall reading that players were getting tired of it.
I know one thing for a fact and I'm sure others all ready know this but the loot system was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from day one and I will give you an example,
Lets just say you were in a dungeon with a group that shared everything ( Dream Group Right LOL!!!! ) Ambisinisterr loots a chest first takes all the loot, when I get to the chest I see all my loot but I leave one item in the chest as it is junk, the last person who loots would only get the item that I left behind as junk, now everyone before that got a list of items and took everything but anyone who leaves something behind that will be the only thing in the chest for whom ever loots.
That's not right, if everyone usually get several items to call there own then if you choose to leave something behind then the person who loots next should see their normal amount of items , PLUS whatever someone may have left behind, NOT just 1 piece of junk.
Altars, Plants, and other nodes work in this same manner but I understand that for those, or groups would be getting loads of prof. resources.
For me, and I want NWO to be its own game, but I would like the Devs to look at the way DDO chest loot is done, everyone in the group opens the chest and their is loot in their with their name on it, if someone chooses to leave something for someone they open the menu and click that persons name in the drop down and there it is...Easy...Peasy.
Boss end chests aren't effected by this Thank God,
I know and understand that some things had to be changed/Nerfed, but if something was to be done due to the uneven mechanics in PVP I don't know why that should have effected people in PvE, this is why I never liked playing game with PvP in them thank the gods that NWO wasn't made open world PVP because I'm sure we never would have to worry about the Lock Box fiasco killing the game.
I never understood why NWO had a separate app so you could come on and do AH, crafting, Guild stuff etc. Which never worked right, why not have that separate app, or client for people in PvP , I never took part in PvP sense day one so why should my character(s) be globally effected by a Nurf for my class that is intended to rectify something in PVP. That aspect of NWO was never the reason I was drawn to this game, I don't even think of PvP when I imagine D&D, There are lots of other more established/stable games out there that offer that so if people are in to that they can play those. For Now it seemed this was more of an experimental after-thought then something that was truly supposed to offer something good to the experience.
Now I'm kind of getting off topic, so in closing yes I seen these early posts of making items BOP, BOE, etc and the loot Ninja's etc. So yes the forum community asked for something to be done and this is the result we have.
So, will the loot be made BoE again if I make enough threads about it?
I don't want to play the game like it's my job in order to have a competitive amount of AD especially with the new sinks.
I just dropped 50,000 AD on a Malabog key which is arguably useless.
Now I have to spend more AD on campagin unlocks.
I normally never hit the AD cap each day. The loot that I could sell on the AH was a saving grace for me.
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krisst0fMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I am not necessary complaining about the BoP dungeon CHEST loot, but the change in drops from epic to blue is ridiculous... Why make a D2 epic dungeon that typically requires you to already be loaded with epic gear (gs>9200 anyone?) only to get blue drop when you actually bring a boss down???
THAT is what is unacceptable and that was NOT discussed prior to the patch.
Some of these rare boss epic item drops appeared a few times to also be BoP and that was contrary to what was discussed and announced.
I disagree with your judgement that prices are already down... For the blue crappy items they are, but for epic purple set items, they are going up BIG time.
Cryptic has nerfed the game for players who started at the beta by removing all hope to get any valuable loot for their characters... ( how is it even possible to put rank 10 or perfect enchantment in armor now, by buying zen with $$? They can sit on it...)
Anyway, I spent a good time for my money with this game... I was expecting some more fun... I am waiting on the next one now, and not from Cryptic.
So, will the loot be made BoE again if I make enough threads about it?
I don't want to play the game like it's my job in order to have a competitive amount of AD especially with the new sinks.
I just dropped 50,000 AD on a Malabog key which is arguably useless.
Now I have to spend more AD on campagin unlocks.
I normally never hit the AD cap each day. The loot that I could sell on the AH was a saving grace for me.
I would have to say No. Now that Bind on pickup has been implemented I do not see it being reversed. I am sure it's frustrating for some players, I know when I want to deal with Bop epics off bosses I hop back on my World of Warcraft account. Though the mobs drop Boe epics so thats always a plus for being able to place those items on the Ah.
Neverwinter was the first game I ever played where I could take a stroll over to the nearest Department store (AH) and spend a few million Ad and have a complete set of T2 gear without ever having set foot in an instance. To be honest I am really sad I won't be able to go virtual shopping for my gear needs on my alts.
In the voice of William Shatner.............Cryyyyyyyyyyyyptic!!!!
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
These changes only effect the Dungeon Delve Chest. Anything which comes out of the Dungeon Delve Chest is BoP but is guaranteed to be usable by you and you may also select between three different items. All boss drops have remained BoE.
except that all sharandar drops are BoP so that isnt true...
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greeniewolf0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 83
So, will the loot be made BoE again if I make enough threads about it?
I don't want to play the game like it's my job in order to have a competitive amount of AD especially with the new sinks.
I just dropped 50,000 AD on a Malabog key which is arguably useless.
Now I have to spend more AD on campagin unlocks.
I normally never hit the AD cap each day. The loot that I could sell on the AH was a saving grace for me.
exactly. If you want to balance the economy and keep players around, a far better way would be to drop the experience levels for characters so it doesn't take a week to get to level 60, and stop making the "rare" blue gear drop like candy. I've played many mmo's where it took a week to gain a level, and while I am not advocating quite that much of a change, maybe cut the experience gain for players by half or even 3/4ths. Then it would be more useful to buy "rare" blue level gear, especially if you both made the blue level gear more noticeably different then the green and actually made it rare.
Secondly, there is nothing wrong with adding more cosmetic items into the game as rewards. It is really not as hard as you act like. If neverwinter is set up like any other typical mmo, simply add the items into the loot database for a given level. alternatively, set up venders within neverwinter where you can buy them for gold or seals, and have decent sized gold/seal drops from bosses as an alternative to item drops. But to try and artificially inflate prices up to 2 million AD for items again is more likely to drive players away than invite them into the game, especially since the way you have dungeons set up, you practically need T2 gear to do some of the t1 dungeons, and high level t2 gear to be able to do the low level t2 dungeons. Even if you have a good build that even after the last round of ill thought out nerfs find the epic level dungeons easy, the simple fact it is about impossible to find a t1 dungeon group that will allow anyone with less than a 11 or 12k gear score to join on Dragon. Its not uncommon to see groups that require 14k for T1 runs. So you pretty much have to buy t2 gear just to run the t1 dungeons.
Certain admins and mods say that this gear should feel like a reward you have to earn. Well for the average player in school, or with a job and family able to only play say 6 hours a week and who maybe can't afford to drop $40 a time on a game, it takes months to earn 2 mil. why would they stick around neverwinter when there are so many other games where the gear costs only 200k (or less) so that in the same 4 or so months it takes to buy ONE piece of gear in NW they can equip their char in that game?
During beta, none of the people in the guilds I was in figured gear prices would stay at 2 mil, or dreamed that the devs and mods would actively try and keep them there by any means necessary. The only things we expected to stay high or even go higher than a couple million were limited edition rare items.
If neverwinter keeps the epic gear prices out of reach of the average user and only caters to the hard core gamers who are able to play 8 hours a day every day, then I doubt Neverwinter will last more than a couple of years because the average gamer like me will get frustrated and move on, leaving only a cycle of hard core gamers (And a section of this set are the majority of the ones that truly complained about stuff not being BoP) that will eventually grow bored and move on, or jump to the next great thing.
As a member of the DnD franchise, even if it is more in name than anything else, Neverwinter has an opportunity for the devs that hasn't been seen since Bioware's first NWN. Neverwinter has better graphics than NWN2 did and has the foundry set. If Neverwinter devs were to start making more dyes, role play tools, more and better clothing items and allow far more customization of the looks of our armors and fashion pieces at reasonable prices (hint 60k a change is not exactly reasonable), you could attract in both more of the role play crowd and more of the people that have either left NW or never even came here because of the lack of customization ability.
In fact, with a decent investment of resources, Neverwinter devs could set up a system like other games where players could design clothes, tattoos, and transmutation armors and sell them to other players via either AH or an expansion of the cash market with Cryptic and PWE taking a cut.
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greeniewolf0Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 83
edited August 2013
Thing is having gear in the 50k to 200k range isn't crazy. Most MMo's ive played the gear was in that range. Sometimes even cheaper. When you have dungeons that require a minimum of 9200 to enter and 11k just to survive to make it past the boss, to get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor "rare" or if you are lucky some "epic" loot that you might or might not be able to use that is bind on pickup, and only salvageable for maybe 8k ROUGH diamonds, and the gear you need is 2 million ad on the AH, that isn't fun. That's lots of grinding and getting pissed, and shopping for another game.
Like many if not most of the gamers I know in Neverwinter, I have a job, I have a life, I don't have 8 hours a day to devote to grinding. These changes are exactly why over 50 members of each guild I am in have left the game in the last few days. The gear they might have been able to afford in a few weeks, suddenly was forever beyond their reach unless they invested cash. Considering that most of the members of each guild are either in school, or struggling to pay bills, buying millions of AD is just NOT an option. This is something that the Hardcore people pushing for BOP and the vast majority of the forum admins just do not get.
When I am worrying about how I am gonna pay my next medical bill how I am gonna afford groceries, afford to send my kid off to school, or whatever, I don't have the money to dump in a game where the devs and mods feel if you don't have 8 hours a day to grind then you should have to drop $40 for each piece of armor.
Yeah, but I wasn't agreeing with you, I was translating it into a clear example of "crazy request".
/shrug
Maybe I played to many (rpg)mmo where the end game was pvp and the only thing was to get end game gear.Sometimes it was in a npc store where you had to grind for some point or it was to rare that it toke forever or to high in price for sell by an AH or player run shop.
Thing is having gear in the 50k to 200k range isn't crazy. Most MMo's ive played the gear was in that range. Sometimes even cheaper. When you have dungeons that require a minimum of 9200 to enter and 11k just to survive to make it past the boss, to get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> poor "rare" or if you are lucky some "epic" loot that you might or might not be able to use that is bind on pickup, and only salvageable for maybe 8k ROUGH diamonds, and the gear you need is 2 million ad on the AH, that isn't fun. That's lots of grinding and getting pissed, and shopping for another game.
Like many if not most of the gamers I know in Neverwinter, I have a job, I have a life, I don't have 8 hours a day to devote to grinding. These changes are exactly why over 50 members of each guild I am in have left the game in the last few days. The gear they might have been able to afford in a few weeks, suddenly was forever beyond their reach unless they invested cash. Considering that most of the members of each guild are either in school, or struggling to pay bills, buying millions of AD is just NOT an option. This is something that the Hardcore people pushing for BOP and the vast majority of the forum admins just do not get.
When I am worrying about how I am gonna pay my next medical bill how I am gonna afford groceries, afford to send my kid off to school, or whatever, I don't have the money to dump in a game where the devs and mods feel if you don't have 8 hours a day to grind then you should have to drop $40 for each piece of armor.
Firstly I've played many MMOs and I've never seen one with AD, or a similar system, so I've never seen one with prices in any range much less that range. Maybe there are some but you said most MMOs as though this is a standard.
Anyway, you say the gear you need is 2 million. You mean you want it, not need it. That's fine that you don't have the time (no need for the "I have a life" line tbh) but then you can't expect to get the same things by playing as others do. There's another option where you can pay cash but you don't have to do that either. Sure people at school or on low income can't pay these prices, but they don't have to.
Get some perspective. If you can attain things then great, if you can't then it doesn't matter, it's not a competition.
Maybe I played to many (rpg)mmo where the end game was pvp and the only thing was to get end game gear.Sometimes it was in a npc store where you had to grind for some point or it was to rare that it toke forever or to high in price for sell by an AH or player run shop.
I all already knew she thought(long with most) my idea of fun is crazy or just plain wrong.
You're a sneaky one stranger
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Comments
That's an abomination. With those prices the game would die within days of reaching level 60.
When you compare prices you have to compare exactly how much time it takes to get said value. I've played games where 50-200K was a lot, NW is not one of them, and I have played games where millions was chump change.
Not true. Seen lots of boss drops that are bind on pickup...
I see some set items selling for 2.5mill+ That's 104 days of maxed refining for one item. In that time you will almost certainly have completed the dungeon or given up due to the fustating gear gating of the more difficult T2 dungeons. That's simply absurd for the casual player.
Prices are going to have to come down, because the majority of the playerbase simply can't afford the items as priced currently(and transmute, unsocketing, mount and companion upgrades are still a joke).
It might require you to do some things you don't particularly care for but it's easy and well within possibility.
You're right. That will likely stabilize in time though.
Some pieces will be cheaper than others. Some will be more. Like always. And the difficulty of the run and how many people can/will do them will determine the prices alongside how much people have to spend.
Then, you better check out Malabog boss drops because they are BoP too. Hmmm..
With all due respect, if all you have to really look forward to at lvl 60 is grinding for gear with nothing worthwhile to use it on, then your game is already dead. Otherwise why not just DO that content anyway and earn that gear or better that way?
The only reason these prices are so high is because of the founder packs (as both of them gave large amounts of AD and so did this new fey pack), as prices for almost everything have been 2 mil or more because those in open beta knew there were loads of players who bought the packs and had it, so they could set their prices that high. If these prices only just NOW showed up in game I'd believe you, but since they've been this way on MANY items in the AH since the first day of Open Beta it's not hard to see. Normally a health game Economy in a new game slowly ramps up, but this one has been sky high in every way since open beta day one (AH, WB, little changes requiring AD)
Yeah, more content to do would be nice...but that content would need rewards because there's PLENTY to do because of the Foundry but the rewards are lacking so many players, sadly, do not take advantage of the near unlimited gameplay.
It's a catch 22. Players want rewards and the only items of any value to other players is gear...
But there are only so many people who need gear...and after they get the gear they simply accelerate the contribution of gear to the market. It's the same effect as a snowball rolling down a hill and it's only a mateer of time before it gets too big to sustane itself.
There's plenty of content if you don't care about the rewards. Content, no offense devs, much better than the official content...
But the bottom line is people want rewards...
And no matter how much content is added to the game people won't play it if the rewards are lacking...
And making rewards other than gear valuable is no simple task.
I'd do content for BoP/one time drop cosmetic items. Ex:
I'm sure people can think of more rewards that aren't just "MOAR GEARZ!!!" PWE/Cryptic just aren't being imaginative enough or are locking all that stuff out for the cash shop only.
"I want cheap and plentiful piles o' loot flying around everywhere like confetti, with minimal effort!"
It's interesting seeing this. And comparing it to the forums of other MMOs I played in the past. Where the hardcore, dungeon/raider, "achievement" guys (NOT the "table top RPer") complained endlessly and bitterly about people being able to get loot without actually needing to carve their way through the dungeons.
Problem is...
Those systems don't exist and would take large amounts of time to create. So, as I said, creating rewards other than gear is not easy and much of what they could offer at this time would heavilly impact sales. I do love the transmutation token idea though!
And Free to Play means that you pay for cosmetics. That's what PWE should be charging for. If those aren't charged for more important things which ruin the gameplay of other people will be...and that's...not good. It's borderline as it is and should be steered away from selling anything but cosmetics.
As for the Foundry, it's not broken. I'm getting reports that it is down atm but that's within the last hour. It was down for a day since the patch (most of that was expected) and a bug existed in existing content but poses no detrimental effects and will be resolved early next week hopefully.
It's all temporary and really has absolutely no real significance in whether or not The Foundry supplies gameplay or not.
As for creating alts, the amount of gear being put in far exceeds the number of alts in the game.
In fact, it seems like if the prices were wanted to be higher than 200K, then wouldn't that create the same problem with players taking longer to buy those items, the AH only allowing an auction for about 4 days, and getting frustrated by inflation causing them to seek or settle for gear else where causing AH gear demand to crash?
I've rolled a few characters so far... trying to find a class / playstyle I enjoyed.
It's sad to say, I learned that buying blue gear as you level just wasn't worth it... Once I hit 60 all I had to do was spend every AD I earned for my while leveling up to "Gear-up". Really, getting 10k-11k gear score immediately once hitting 60 wasn't tough at all.
To me, that really seemed messed up. I've played as a monk on FFXI... when I finally farmed enough gil to buy a brown belt from the AH.. man I was excited. That's what it should be like! It'll take a few weeks.. but the economy will be better and the feeling of progression sustained once you hit 60. I like the new patch!
Just need those bugs worked out.
This is precisely why changes were made to the DD box mechanic. A huge excess of gear in the market trivialized the progression experience for new players to 60.
From the way my buddy described Diablo 3, you could buy gear off the Ah equip said gear to clear through harder acts and then turn around and place said gear back on the Ah. Actually it was kind of funny when he told me, because I am so used to online games where gear is bind on equip or bind on pickup. Neverwinter was a step backwards for me in terms of being able to head off to the Ah at level 60 and spend 1.6 million Ad and have my full T2 set without ever having to set foot in a dungeon.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
That was my consensus on feedback question as well, I had seen a lot of people early on expressing their concern about people in groups taking loot that they couldn't even use, whilst someone else in the group could have used it but lost the roll or just basically had it stolen due to the way the loot system worked, so I actually recall reading that players were getting tired of it.
I know one thing for a fact and I'm sure others all ready know this but the loot system was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from day one and I will give you an example,
Lets just say you were in a dungeon with a group that shared everything ( Dream Group Right LOL!!!! ) Ambisinisterr loots a chest first takes all the loot, when I get to the chest I see all my loot but I leave one item in the chest as it is junk, the last person who loots would only get the item that I left behind as junk, now everyone before that got a list of items and took everything but anyone who leaves something behind that will be the only thing in the chest for whom ever loots.
That's not right, if everyone usually get several items to call there own then if you choose to leave something behind then the person who loots next should see their normal amount of items , PLUS whatever someone may have left behind, NOT just 1 piece of junk.
Altars, Plants, and other nodes work in this same manner but I understand that for those, or groups would be getting loads of prof. resources.
For me, and I want NWO to be its own game, but I would like the Devs to look at the way DDO chest loot is done, everyone in the group opens the chest and their is loot in their with their name on it, if someone chooses to leave something for someone they open the menu and click that persons name in the drop down and there it is...Easy...Peasy.
Boss end chests aren't effected by this Thank God,
I know and understand that some things had to be changed/Nerfed, but if something was to be done due to the uneven mechanics in PVP I don't know why that should have effected people in PvE, this is why I never liked playing game with PvP in them thank the gods that NWO wasn't made open world PVP because I'm sure we never would have to worry about the Lock Box fiasco killing the game.
I never understood why NWO had a separate app so you could come on and do AH, crafting, Guild stuff etc. Which never worked right, why not have that separate app, or client for people in PvP , I never took part in PvP sense day one so why should my character(s) be globally effected by a Nurf for my class that is intended to rectify something in PVP. That aspect of NWO was never the reason I was drawn to this game, I don't even think of PvP when I imagine D&D, There are lots of other more established/stable games out there that offer that so if people are in to that they can play those. For Now it seemed this was more of an experimental after-thought then something that was truly supposed to offer something good to the experience.
Now I'm kind of getting off topic, so in closing yes I seen these early posts of making items BOP, BOE, etc and the loot Ninja's etc. So yes the forum community asked for something to be done and this is the result we have.
Cheers! All
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
I don't want to play the game like it's my job in order to have a competitive amount of AD especially with the new sinks.
I just dropped 50,000 AD on a Malabog key which is arguably useless.
Now I have to spend more AD on campagin unlocks.
I normally never hit the AD cap each day. The loot that I could sell on the AH was a saving grace for me.
THAT is what is unacceptable and that was NOT discussed prior to the patch.
Some of these rare boss epic item drops appeared a few times to also be BoP and that was contrary to what was discussed and announced.
I disagree with your judgement that prices are already down... For the blue crappy items they are, but for epic purple set items, they are going up BIG time.
Cryptic has nerfed the game for players who started at the beta by removing all hope to get any valuable loot for their characters... ( how is it even possible to put rank 10 or perfect enchantment in armor now, by buying zen with $$? They can sit on it...)
Anyway, I spent a good time for my money with this game... I was expecting some more fun... I am waiting on the next one now, and not from Cryptic.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
I would have to say No. Now that Bind on pickup has been implemented I do not see it being reversed. I am sure it's frustrating for some players, I know when I want to deal with Bop epics off bosses I hop back on my World of Warcraft account. Though the mobs drop Boe epics so thats always a plus for being able to place those items on the Ah.
Neverwinter was the first game I ever played where I could take a stroll over to the nearest Department store (AH) and spend a few million Ad and have a complete set of T2 gear without ever having set foot in an instance. To be honest I am really sad I won't be able to go virtual shopping for my gear needs on my alts.
In the voice of William Shatner.............Cryyyyyyyyyyyyptic!!!!
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
Yeah, but I wasn't agreeing with you, I was translating it into a clear example of "crazy request".
/shrug
Was best to leave them guessing.
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem
except that all sharandar drops are BoP so that isnt true...
exactly. If you want to balance the economy and keep players around, a far better way would be to drop the experience levels for characters so it doesn't take a week to get to level 60, and stop making the "rare" blue gear drop like candy. I've played many mmo's where it took a week to gain a level, and while I am not advocating quite that much of a change, maybe cut the experience gain for players by half or even 3/4ths. Then it would be more useful to buy "rare" blue level gear, especially if you both made the blue level gear more noticeably different then the green and actually made it rare.
Secondly, there is nothing wrong with adding more cosmetic items into the game as rewards. It is really not as hard as you act like. If neverwinter is set up like any other typical mmo, simply add the items into the loot database for a given level. alternatively, set up venders within neverwinter where you can buy them for gold or seals, and have decent sized gold/seal drops from bosses as an alternative to item drops. But to try and artificially inflate prices up to 2 million AD for items again is more likely to drive players away than invite them into the game, especially since the way you have dungeons set up, you practically need T2 gear to do some of the t1 dungeons, and high level t2 gear to be able to do the low level t2 dungeons. Even if you have a good build that even after the last round of ill thought out nerfs find the epic level dungeons easy, the simple fact it is about impossible to find a t1 dungeon group that will allow anyone with less than a 11 or 12k gear score to join on Dragon. Its not uncommon to see groups that require 14k for T1 runs. So you pretty much have to buy t2 gear just to run the t1 dungeons.
Certain admins and mods say that this gear should feel like a reward you have to earn. Well for the average player in school, or with a job and family able to only play say 6 hours a week and who maybe can't afford to drop $40 a time on a game, it takes months to earn 2 mil. why would they stick around neverwinter when there are so many other games where the gear costs only 200k (or less) so that in the same 4 or so months it takes to buy ONE piece of gear in NW they can equip their char in that game?
During beta, none of the people in the guilds I was in figured gear prices would stay at 2 mil, or dreamed that the devs and mods would actively try and keep them there by any means necessary. The only things we expected to stay high or even go higher than a couple million were limited edition rare items.
If neverwinter keeps the epic gear prices out of reach of the average user and only caters to the hard core gamers who are able to play 8 hours a day every day, then I doubt Neverwinter will last more than a couple of years because the average gamer like me will get frustrated and move on, leaving only a cycle of hard core gamers (And a section of this set are the majority of the ones that truly complained about stuff not being BoP) that will eventually grow bored and move on, or jump to the next great thing.
As a member of the DnD franchise, even if it is more in name than anything else, Neverwinter has an opportunity for the devs that hasn't been seen since Bioware's first NWN. Neverwinter has better graphics than NWN2 did and has the foundry set. If Neverwinter devs were to start making more dyes, role play tools, more and better clothing items and allow far more customization of the looks of our armors and fashion pieces at reasonable prices (hint 60k a change is not exactly reasonable), you could attract in both more of the role play crowd and more of the people that have either left NW or never even came here because of the lack of customization ability.
In fact, with a decent investment of resources, Neverwinter devs could set up a system like other games where players could design clothes, tattoos, and transmutation armors and sell them to other players via either AH or an expansion of the cash market with Cryptic and PWE taking a cut.
Like many if not most of the gamers I know in Neverwinter, I have a job, I have a life, I don't have 8 hours a day to devote to grinding. These changes are exactly why over 50 members of each guild I am in have left the game in the last few days. The gear they might have been able to afford in a few weeks, suddenly was forever beyond their reach unless they invested cash. Considering that most of the members of each guild are either in school, or struggling to pay bills, buying millions of AD is just NOT an option. This is something that the Hardcore people pushing for BOP and the vast majority of the forum admins just do not get.
When I am worrying about how I am gonna pay my next medical bill how I am gonna afford groceries, afford to send my kid off to school, or whatever, I don't have the money to dump in a game where the devs and mods feel if you don't have 8 hours a day to grind then you should have to drop $40 for each piece of armor.
I can still move.
I can still fight.
I will never give up!
Anyway, you say the gear you need is 2 million. You mean you want it, not need it. That's fine that you don't have the time (no need for the "I have a life" line tbh) but then you can't expect to get the same things by playing as others do. There's another option where you can pay cash but you don't have to do that either. Sure people at school or on low income can't pay these prices, but they don't have to.
Get some perspective. If you can attain things then great, if you can't then it doesn't matter, it's not a competition.
You're a sneaky one stranger
Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor.
~Sholom Aleichem