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Plague Fire mitigation debuff
ogsplat
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 11 Arc User
EDIT: A fix is in the works, no ETA currently. Currently, defense removed is some quantity likely equal or possibly greater than 20%. Does not stack.
OBSERVED ISSUE: Greater Plague Fire (GPF) enchantment is not reducing Defense more than once, regardless of number of stacks of GPF debuff on target. Other traits of GPF enchantment, such as additional weapon damage and damage over time effect, still appear to function properly. I observed this issue on my control wizard, which is level 60 and equipped with an Ancient Court Magister's Orb enchanted with GPF, while attacking target dummies in The Trade of Blades.
This same behavior was not observed using a Burning Shard of Elemental Fire enchanted with a Lesser Plague Fire (LPF) enchantment. Defense of target dummies were reduced by 5% per stack of LPF debuff.
TESTING METHODS: I first observed this issue while fully equipped, feats allocated, and with multiple abilities. To further test and reproduce, I attacked each individual target dummy with Magic Missiles with no gear equipped except the enchanted weapon and without any feats allocated.
I attacked individual target dummies using one complete cycle of Magic Missiles and recorded damage results with one, two, and three stacks of GPF debuff present. I allowed the GPF debuff to fully expire and repeated several trials against each target dummy. I was the only player attacking the given target dummy.
DATA: Below are five trials conducted on Mimic target dummies to demonstrate how the Defense debuff is functioning:
EDIT: Numbers still demonstrate the lack of stacking, just with the wrong nomenclature and methods. Ignore the mitigation numbers beyond the lack of stacking:
I conducted additional Magic Missiles trials using the same weapon with no gear on the live servers (Beholder). Feats are still allocated on live but do not add additional Mitigation or Defense reduction debuffs (i.e. no Chaos Magic feat in Renegade tree). Here are the results from five trials:
NOTE: All data was read straight out of the combat log and calculated in a spreadsheet application. Below is an example of how I calculated resistance reduction:
I expressed all Defense values as a percentage and used the absolute value for ease of data viewing.
EDIT:
Thanks to @sballarddev for confirmation and update of the issue and clarification of the GPF mechanic. Thanks to everyone else who tested and checked.
OBSERVED ISSUE: Greater Plague Fire (GPF) enchantment is not reducing Defense more than once, regardless of number of stacks of GPF debuff on target. Other traits of GPF enchantment, such as additional weapon damage and damage over time effect, still appear to function properly. I observed this issue on my control wizard, which is level 60 and equipped with an Ancient Court Magister's Orb enchanted with GPF, while attacking target dummies in The Trade of Blades.
This same behavior was not observed using a Burning Shard of Elemental Fire enchanted with a Lesser Plague Fire (LPF) enchantment. Defense of target dummies were reduced by 5% per stack of LPF debuff.
TESTING METHODS: I first observed this issue while fully equipped, feats allocated, and with multiple abilities. To further test and reproduce, I attacked each individual target dummy with Magic Missiles with no gear equipped except the enchanted weapon and without any feats allocated.
I attacked individual target dummies using one complete cycle of Magic Missiles and recorded damage results with one, two, and three stacks of GPF debuff present. I allowed the GPF debuff to fully expire and repeated several trials against each target dummy. I was the only player attacking the given target dummy.
DATA: Below are five trials conducted on Mimic target dummies to demonstrate how the Defense debuff is functioning:
EDIT: Numbers still demonstrate the lack of stacking, just with the wrong nomenclature and methods. Ignore the mitigation numbers beyond the lack of stacking:
[B]Trial 1[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 455 [/th] [th] 442 [/th] [th] 2.94% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 442 [/th] [th] 429 [/th] [th] 3.03% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 432 [/th] [th] 419 [/th] [th] 3.10% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 473 [/th] [th] 459 [/th] [th] 3.05% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 420 [/th] [th] 407 [/th] [th] 3.19% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 2[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 451 [/th] [th] 438 [/th] [th] 2.97% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 446 [/th] [th] 433 [/th] [th] 3.00% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 443 [/th] [th] 430 [/th] [th] 3.02% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 475 [/th] [th] 461 [/th] [th] 3.04% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 442 [/th] [th] 429 [/th] [th] 3.03% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 3[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 452 [/th] [th] 438 [/th] [th] 3.20% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 476 [/th] [th] 462 [/th] [th] 3.03% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 464 [/th] [th] 450 [/th] [th] 3.11% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 456 [/th] [th] 443 [/th] [th] 2.93% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 438 [/th] [th] 426 [/th] [th] 2.82% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 4[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 426 [/th] [th] 414 [/th] [th] 2.90% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 413 [/th] [th] 401 [/th] [th] 2.99% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 435 [/th] [th] 423 [/th] [th] 2.84% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 450 [/th] [th] 437 [/th] [th] 2.97% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 477 [/th] [th] 463 [/th] [th] 3.02% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 5[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 761 [/th] [th] 739 [/th] [th] 2.98% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 423 [/th] [th] 411 [/th] [th] 2.92% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 718 [/th] [th] 697 [/th] [th] 3.01% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 742 [/th] [th] 721 [/th] [th] 2.91% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 811 [/th] [th] 787 [/th] [th] 3.05% [/th] [/tr][/table]
I conducted additional Magic Missiles trials using the same weapon with no gear on the live servers (Beholder). Feats are still allocated on live but do not add additional Mitigation or Defense reduction debuffs (i.e. no Chaos Magic feat in Renegade tree). Here are the results from five trials:
[B]Trial 1[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 715 [/th] [th] 694 [/th] [th] 3.03% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 690 [/th] [th] 651 [/th] [th] 5.99% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 743 [/th] [th] 681 [/th] [th] 9.10% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 705 [/th] [th] 647 [/th] [th] 8.96% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 700 [/th] [th] 643 [/th] [th] 8.86% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 2[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 637 [/th] [th] 619 [/th] [th] 2.91% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 706 [/th] [th] 666 [/th] [th] 6.01% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 676 [/th] [th] 620 [/th] [th] 9.03% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 711 [/th] [th] 652 [/th] [th] 9.05% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 666 [/th] [th] 611 [/th] [th] 9.00% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 3[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 572 [/th] [th] 556 [/th] [th] 2.88% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 631 [/th] [th] 596 [/th] [th] 5.87% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 602 [/th] [th] 553 [/th] [th] 8.86% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 598 [/th] [th] 549 [/th] [th] 8.93% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 602 [/th] [th] 552 [/th] [th] 9.06% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 4[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 553 [/th] [th] 537 [/th] [th] 2.98% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 999 [/th] [th] 943 [/th] [th] 5.94% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 648 [/th] [th] 594 [/th] [th] 9.09% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 625 [/th] [th] 574 [/th] [th] 8.89% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 635 [/th] [th] 583 [/th] [th] 8.92% [/th] [/tr][/table] [B]Trial 5[/B] [table][tr] [th] Debuff Stacks [/th] [th] Actual Damage [/th] [th] Damage Without Debuff [/th] [th] % Mitigation Reduced [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 1 [/th] [th] 560 [/th] [th] 544 [/th] [th] 2.94% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 2 [/th] [th] 618 [/th] [th] 583 [/th] [th] 6.00% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 566 [/th] [th] 519 [/th] [th] 9.06% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 658 [/th] [th] 603 [/th] [th] 9.12% [/th] [/tr] [tr] [th] 3 [/th] [th] 636 [/th] [th] 583 [/th] [th] 9.09% [/th] [/tr][/table]
NOTE: All data was read straight out of the combat log and calculated in a spreadsheet application. Below is an example of how I calculated resistance reduction:
[Combat (Self)] Your Magic Missile deals 446 (433) Arcane to Target Dummy. a = Actual damage (the 446 in the combat log line) b = Damage before resistance buffs/debuffs (the parenthesized 433 in the combat log line) x = Amount of resistance x = (b - a) / b x = (433 - 446) / 433 x = -13 / 433 x = -0.03
I expressed all Defense values as a percentage and used the absolute value for ease of data viewing.
EDIT:
sballarddev wrote: »Hey, wanted to touch on some confusion. This enchantment directly reduces Defense, not Mitigation. On critters this is roughly 3% from Greater Plague Fire. The 45% Defense debuff will account for about 9% of their defense. As far as stacking, we have identified why they no longer stack properly and are working on a fix right now, but I don't have an ETA for that. Thanks!
Thanks to @sballarddev for confirmation and update of the issue and clarification of the GPF mechanic. Thanks to everyone else who tested and checked.
Post edited by ogsplat on
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Comments
Live: 3% per stack on target, capping at 9%
Mimic: 3% no matter how many stacks applied.
I haven't been in any epic dungeons on the test shard so I have no data for mobs over level 60. Attacking level 60 and below mobs out in the world on Mimic shows the 3% mitigation reduction regardless of GPF stacks for me.
Assuming the target dummies are behaving the same as they do on live, the PF debuff does appear to function the same on mobs and target dummies.
Could you explain to me why mitigation caps on 9% and not 15%x3 ? I'm really confused right now.
Because GPF supposed to reduced opponent defense by 15% per stack , but based on your math ( which i'm not saying it is wrong) the mitigation caps at 9% @3rd stack excluding the fact that it doesn't stack anymore on the PTS.
Only thing I can say is the tooltip does not match the mechanic. I do not know what the correct "intended" behavior is.
Perhaps the presence of the Terror enchantment is making the issue, since it works 90% identically like Plague fire but it doesn't stack.
Well the servers are down anyways so i can't test it myself. Thanks for clarification though, my patience with this game's developers is starting to run out.
Cryptic Studios
Thanks for the reply. Updating the OP to remove concept confusion and conflation.
EDIT: On Mimic, I was attacking some Witherers and Giantsouls in Sharandar and could not get my numbers to reconcile with one 15% Defense debuff. Long story short, I am guessing Greater Plague Fire's Defense debuff is acting like a Perfect Terror enchantment (one stack at 20%.)
Damage reduction formula from @freehugs9's stats thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?301761-Calculating-stats-and-their-effects
I simplified the formula assuming these mobs do not have feats or ability bonuses that impact damage resistance and are considered level 60 for level constant purposes:
Witherers have ~12.8% damage resistance. At a 15% Defense debuff, I cannot get any Armor Class (including negative ones) to work with Witherers, but at 20%:
Attacking a Witherer with Ray of Frost and GPF-enchanted weapon:
Same result observed with Giantsouls, assuming ArmorClass = 20 and Defense ~= 578. 18% base damage reduction, ~16% after GPF debuff in current form.
To be fair, I was able to make the numbers work at 30% defense reduced as well, but that put Giantsoul Armor Class over 30, which seems a bit high for a mob without a shield. Witherer Armor Class was at 18, which isn't unreasonable for a ranged caster.
Either way, looking forward to another quashed bug.
thanks for the reply
edit: nevermind asked further and looks like it was before patch.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
uhhh what? so whats the difference between Defense and defense. ohhh one has a capital D, so that must be that other defense..... can't forget about that other defense.....
I feel like i bought a tv from bestbuy and the newest latest tv came out, and geeksquad showed up at my door with a baseball bat.
45% debuff to defense counts as 9% debuff to Mitigation. Defense is a flat number that gets translated to "Mitigation" which is your actual damage resistance and it is a percentage, that's why they are different.
From my experience as a GWF this is the process of what happens
Something appears to be a bug.. Many complaints without any response...
Weeks go by without a fix... People stop complaining..
Then there is a ninja tooltip correction.. Confirming it was intended and not a bug
Move on