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2 day countdown until epic LAWL dungeon runs
braanu
Member Posts: 59
Only 2 days to go!
Dungeons are going to be soooo slow to run.
Let me know how much time it takes to run Spellplage and Castle Never.
Oh, and tell me how fun the room in Castle Never with 3 Red Wizards stacked in same room together is now after the CW and DC changes to AP gain. It's just after the Spider boss, 3 rooms in.
Tell me how many times your group dies to that pull before you killed all 3 Red Wizards now that AP gain for DC and CW was nerfed.
Dungeons are going to be soooo slow to run.
Let me know how much time it takes to run Spellplage and Castle Never.
Oh, and tell me how fun the room in Castle Never with 3 Red Wizards stacked in same room together is now after the CW and DC changes to AP gain. It's just after the Spider boss, 3 rooms in.
Tell me how many times your group dies to that pull before you killed all 3 Red Wizards now that AP gain for DC and CW was nerfed.
Post edited by braanu on
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I for one am eagerly waiting for the new CN! So many heals to use on CD, struggling to keep wizards with more CC than they used to have alive.
Diogene you are a minority. Nobody wants to run through hours of trash mobs and call it a "Challenge". You play a much different game then the rest of us. Enjoy the crickets.
For the record very similar words were used by the people who protested the Arcane Shield nerf. A lot of them are gone now, but if some of them came back imagine just how stupid they would have felt when it turned out that all their protests were meaningless/pointless. Thanks to all the buffs (and not just to our class) in the end we were fine even with the AS nerfs. And we will continue to be fine after these nerfs, since Cryptic is apparently more dependable than you people seem make them out to be.
I hope you come back around a month after you leave, just so can experience feeling like an idiot before you leave for good.
If my hunch is right, it's going to be the best spec to be in for the direction DCs are being shoved by the developers.
If my hunch is wrong... well, I don't play NW very often anymore anyway, and I can always wait for the next free respec update.
But since my AP gain during boss fights is likely about to take a nosedive, and since Linked Spirit is getting debugged, I don't see anything wrong with running a DPS spec at this point.
None of the staple heals I'll be relying on after the patch are going to benefit much from Faithful feats anyway -- I might as well instead gain some oomph on the about-to-be-buffed Soothing Light (Desperate Renewal) and Divine Shield (that one fourth-tier Virtuous feat), plus a nice bit of resistance shred on Daunting Light for the sake of clearing trash or helping with adds on particular bosses / group setups. The damage and crit chance debuff on BOTS also seems like a handy option to have around.
Dunno, it just makes sense to me. What beyond tiers 1 and 2 in the Faithful tree is going to be truly worth having anymore? (I consider the Foresight-buffing feat still probably worth it, but that might simply be what I spend most of my off-tree points in, with a point or two splashed into the combat-advantage-reduction feat from Righteous for that extra bit of help it provides to Soothing Light saving people from gang-bangs.)
IF there were ALL new dungeons, making all the old ones obsolete, then I could sign on to the possibility of these class changes being fun and challenging. However it's not going to be like that.
There's no new PVP maps. There's no one crying for Cleric Hammer of Fate nerfs cause "oh my that cleric took me from 100% to dead and I couldn't even react!".
All the PVP side of these Cleric changes is going to do is pigeonhole an already weak class in PVP into nonexistence in PVP.
On the PvE side of these Cleric changes, dungeons are going to take much longer to do. Those large packs of trash that the dungeons were designed around pulling large groups and knocking them off...are going ...to...take...forever now.
When people first ran the new dungeon Malbog or whatever it's called, it was commented on by my guild how much less trash there was. But how the trash was more powerful than normal trash, etc.
I guess it's not so much that...it's the new dungeon was designed around the class changes and they realized to have a fun dungeon experience you cant endlessly grind 100 trash mobs between each boss. So there's more powerful but less trash in the new dungeon.
Sorry, but one dungeon can't hold my attention for months on end when any old content you attempt will be regression not progression. You can't go from 30min Spellplague runs to 1hr+ Spellplague runs and tell me you had a blast because it's now more challenging.
Nothing in the dungeon will have changed. Only your ability to do any of it will have been lessened, and you'd have to be an awfully casual player to have done the old dungeons so little that doing them as slowly as you'll be doing them will make it fun.
Will the old content dungeons be do-able post-patch?
Sure they will. Without a doubt I agree with you that completing any and all of the old content will be totally possible to accomplish.
However, you and I are on a WHOLE DIFFERENT game when it comes to how we play Neverwinter and run dungeons.
The group I was running Castle Never with before I quit playing when these class "balance" changes came out was doing CN runs in 17 minutes or so. Timed. I really doubt you have anyone in your guild you could put any group of classes together and say the same thing. Not many people on all worlds can say they can kill all 4 bosses in that time.
We were doing 5 Spellplague runs during a DD event. 7-8 Spiders. 7+ FH runs. Multiple people Perfect Vorpals, Perfect Soulforge, 4+ Greater Tenebrous etc etc
I really doubt if you feel these changes are still going to leave the game fun, that you have any idea how the rest of us are playing the game.
If you don't push your toon and your group to the maximum of their potential and push the dungeon's completion time to it's fastest possible run, then you don't play the same as we do.
You'll find dungeons still "complete-able" and be "fine" with these class "balance" changes. That won't mean you were right that Cryptic knew what they were doing with these changes. You're only right if Neverwinter continues to be an overwhelming success and subscription numbers continue to rise (its a new game still).
I think you and me both know their 2 million subscribers they boasted about is probably closer to 1.5 million and quickly falling. Incoming 1 million once the changes from the 22nd are realized...
It's a preview server. Things there are expected to be unbalanced, so the devs can fine-tune them.
Mediocrity? Lol. Are you perhaps you're just sore with the fact that ultimately people like spexti are going catch up to people like you gear-wise? And exploits are exploits. Epic dungeons were designed to be doable in 45 mins to 1 hour. THAT was the design. Unless you finished that Spellplague in 30 mins because thanks to all your shiny gear you were able to move between encounters/kill bosses faster, then you are just another player who glorifies the use of exploits. You are NOT a hardcore player. You are an EXPLOIT ABUSER. If that's the case, then how dare you post in these forums.
In all your drama about how we're supposed to be doing dungeons slower now have you not yet considered that we're getting new gear, new weapons, level 30 companions? New weapons = significantly faster kills? New gear = more 3k+ stats? Companions which are supposed to be able to hold their own against level 60 mobs, at least for a little while? Have you considered that there are already blues which are more powerful than some T2 purples?
At least you can enter PVP then (lol) and not have to worry about switching Feats to have the most possible Cleric dmg (again LOL) that you can get in PVP.
I say you all should just trait out for full DPS, have only DPS encounters and At-Wills and Dailies, and just make everyone potion through the dungeons.
Hell, maybe the new class they're not giving players is a REAL healing class and they're gimping this one to be a DPS/Off-Healer class once that one is released? LOL that'd the most logical thing I've thought of to explain any of the upcoming Cleric changes...
You just proved my point. You think completing a dungeon in any other way than mindlessly grinding every single monster between Point A and Point B is exploiting.
You're one of those people who complains when they random queue for a random group of players in a random dungeon and people are trying "to exploit" complete the dungeons.
As I said, you obviously play the game differently than I do. You're OK with a mediocre party with 45min-1hr Spellplague runs. Soon to become 1.5hr-2hr Spellplague runs post-patch. The more powerful gear you're talking about doesn't instantly appear in your mailbox when your game patches.
Someone who runs dungeons as you claim to will take quite some time gathering any amount of gear required to bring your toon up to the effectiveness of it's pre-patch self.
Enjoy your gimped game on a gimped class bro.
I don't play games for mediocrity. I play games to complete them and play my characters to their maximum potential.
Casual player versus Hardcore player mentality. Simple as that.
EDIT:
Oh, and about the preview server part with things supposed to be unbalanced for fine tuning. Just LOL. They announced the Cleric changes and put them up for "testing" just 7 days before going live with them. There is BARELY anyone ever on the test server dude. Have you even downloaded it? How can things be tested on a large enough scale to know what's balanced and what isn't when nobody is hardly on the test server? You tried to make a dungeon group after logging into it? How many people do you know getting 5 people to log in at the same time to test out an old dungeon? That's what I thought...you don't know anyone logging into preview to run Castle Never or Spellplague or anything. If anyone is running any dungeon it's the new one, and that has very little trash in it so that's not even what the discussion is about.
Just as a btw, the new class is pretty assuredly an Archery Ranger (based on non-subtle hints in interviews). So, probably not a healer.
I would have thought they'd want to get a ranger ready in time for the release of something with a name like Feywild, but I'm guessing it got pushed back.
Braanu, you're embarrassing yourself. No one cares. The expansion looks good, the class changes are fine, and the rest of us are enjoying the game. Go talk about my mom in COD or something, but no one cares to hear your "sky is falling" nonsense.
(money flowing sound)
the best yet is i got my full set of gear and cast my daily about every 2 sunburst... i couldnt care less if they nerf sunburst ill still make a lot of action point from all my abilities... especialy healing word wich still resplenish quite a lot of the AP bar. Dont give up clerics we still are a force to be reckoned with!
what you are describing has not much to do with hardcore gaming or gaming itrself. You seem to be just a few steps away from typing in a console commend like /killboss or /giveloot and pretending afterwards how awesome you are.
Does anyone actually use res scrolls? I can't think of a single reason why you'd want to, even in a cleric-free fail-sauce party. If you're not at the boss yet, then a wipe is just a "whup, back to teh campfire, injury kit, good to go!", and if you're wiping a lot even with tactics changes and so on, then maybe a "ok we clearly just suck. Thanks and gg" and back to protectors enclave.
If you're in the boss and you're getting wiped instantly, then res scrolls will just let you get wiped instantly twice, and if you're in the boss and you can ALLMOOOOST get the boss down but not quite, you're clearly gonna get him eventually, so just wipe and retry.
Plus given how easy it is to get into dungeons, you're gonna get a good team eventually.
So there's that. Or maybe I'm just a cheapskate?
As for AP generation from HW, I assume you have to slot divine fortune for that? So, with foresight that's now all our passives fixed in stone. YAY CHOICES
I only enjoy playing the content the best i can, and this best is probably in the top 5% in this game FYI. Like duoing some T2s with a GWF... Something you couldn't do, i'm pretty sure about that. I don't mind about these changes because it's insignificant. Nothing will change, except in pvp, with the hammer of fate mega nerf.
The only rules in my run is: no exploits. I will kick your *** if we ever meet in a pug and if i see you jumping around. Cheesing content is mediocrity, lack of skill, noobiness, etc. And if your legit runs take up to 1-2h then i suggest you stop thinking you're an awesome player and think harder to how you play your characters.
Why do people always confuse action points and divinity? That's weird. It's like confusing the guard mechanics with the daily power if you play a tank.
:P
I guess that shows you how much I use healing word, eh? So is the AP gain from HW pretty decent just...as is?
Hw is kinda crappy for anything that's not divinity building.
I want this class in NW.
"Enjoying challenges",hour long marathon in some cases up to two is not a challenge, not in my book atleast. They need to rewamp dungeons according to changes. By all means let them keep bosses the same but endless hordes in hallways need to go.
*Edit* Not to mention the reward from them leaves room to be desired. Will there even be a point in running them after update?
I suspect you mean Astral Shield. It worked well due to agro change and no DC did not get any buffs, none i am aware off. People will most likely swich to high Divine power gain and Crit gear. In my case i will need a new set and new enhancements to go with it along with rings. Untill developers will figure out DCs get too much DP and "fix" the unintentional bug (lol). The pool of powers and feats is shrinking. Diversity in builds is close to none existant. Some sets are becoming obsolete and thats not due to new ones coming out. I do not have the founds to make the swich, so my DC will remain in hybernation for a long time. The update will go live no matter what we say, i am aware of that. But one less DC is exactly that, one less DC.
Anyhow, from the way things look to me (and from what I have been able to test on the preview server), I intend to semi-retire my DC - I will still play with guildies - people that know what they are doing and where we have proper voice chat and no communication issues, but pugs - no, forget it. It is not going to be worth the time or frustration.
There is another reason for the semi-retirement - PvE play is not going to be as fun any more - with the changes to the hammer, foundries are much harder than before and the new PvE content in Faywild is a bit on the challenging side for a solo heal-specced cleric ...
I am not leaving the game by any chance, but I will probably be focusing on my GF. Now, if many other people react the same way, there will be fewer clerics around, meaning longer queue times for everyone else. I would not be surprised to see really serious complaints about queue times in a month or so.
No it's not that great. I'll make extensive tests on the preview server if i find some time today or tomorrow, to find out the new way to make AP as a cleric.
We needed one on AP gain with sunburst anyway.
I hardly think it was intentional to have 100% uptime on a "daily" power lol.
I love pre patch forum stuff. The chicken little's come out of the woodwork with their "professional" opinion which always happens to be wrong.
Yup dungeons will be impossible, PvP will never work again, clerics will never be able to heal people, game will die within 2 days, economy will crash, human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria.
You doomsayers are so cute!
#conspiracytheories
And why is it that whenever someone has something positive to say, they get attacked and ridiculed mercilessly by all the nay-sayers?
...Like how everyone was saying "oh HAMSTER, without 100% AS uptime we're going to have to do stuff like slot a fullhealbar or save HG/DA for the downtime, so we can get our parties through it"?
And like how pretty much that's exactly what happened? (which, incidentally, made sunburst effectively mandatory for the AP generation)
Eh, in all honesty I'm not going to decry the end of all things as we know it, but I think it's fair to say that clerics get an unreasonable number of nonsensical nerfs and changes. If I had some idea of what it exactly is the devs are expecting clerics to BE, it might help, but as it is the general theme seems to be "settle on a build, devs say OH GOD NO NOT LIEK TAHT, nerfs ensue". I admire those of you planning on powering through: you're tenacious peeps, and if it transpires that you manage to find a working build that someone 'not awesome, and not wearing awesome' can still manage to do ok with, then I'll be most appreciative.
...but till then I'll just lurk here and stay away from the actual game.
Maybe i just started too late.
It doesnt seem terrible that i cant blindly use one skill to make it through a whole dungeon.
It doesnt seem terrible that as a group healer i slot a full heal bar.
It doesnt seem terrible that i actually need to save my cooldowns as opposed to spamming a rotation because it will be right back up.
I know i am in the minority but i support all the changes made so far. I get bored when i walk into a dungeon and its the same rotation over and over. I might as well be a walking, red circle dodging macro at that point.
I like that I need to save AS for the right time, i like that i dont have 100% uptime on a daily power, even if the power level of the tools are shifting down some, i like the fact that the tools are more equal.
I like that now i dont HAVE to have sunburst on my bar. I like that i dont have to use HG. We are getting more viable options even if it comes at the expense of several overpowered options. (not OP like broken, but just far far better than anything else.)
Post AS uptime nerf the skill level (or GS) of your team had to be much higher to permit you taking a fun skill. I think I only did it three or four times and I always switched back to full heals before the boss.
If you're happy with being a healbot and ONLY EVER a healbot, then woo for you, but neverwinter was one of those rare games that seemed to be pushing out of the "lol healbot" pigeonhole, what with its reliance on damage dealing to build divinity and so on. It was interesting and dynamic and also there were fun skills (see above). Now it's more or less mandatory to be a healbot, AND they're making even that more difficult.
Also, if you honestly just played by spamming skills wholly on cooldown, regardless of positioning, timing, circumstance, or anything else, then you're a luckier man than I. Even with 100% uptime on astral shield it was pretty **** important to put it in the right place, at the right time. 100% uptime does not mean "always there when you need it", if you've got it down already but you need it NOW, somewhere else (like, in front of blademasters), then you were still screwed. The same can be said for all the other skills. If you think all of that can be boiled down to "LOL SPAM BUTTANS AND AVOID RED" then....well, we'll just have to disagree on that.
If these changes go live, then everything gets a lot harder, since it won't even be "save it for when you need it", it'll be "do your best to build the AP/DP so you CAN save it for when you need it". It's an extra layer of needless hassle that I simply don't think we need.
I can only assume that you don't pug much?
All of my experience is coming from a pugging perspective, and trust me, the loss of several 'overpowered' options is going to make pulling a terribad group through a dungeon far, far too tiresome for me.