test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

TR Stat Guide

2»

Comments

  • eros1986eros1986 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Wicked reminder is not armor penetration it is mitigation reduction. It is applied after armor penetration and can push mitigation into negatives.

    I see, thank you, ;)
  • spiderbrigadespiderbrigade Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I saw someone post this on the NW reddit, how does this relate to what's being discussed here regarding Armor Penetration?
    Power is a flat 1 damage / 25 power, before skill damage coefficients. It is not a scaling stat.
    All skills have coefficients, and their base damage is essentially negligible since they are all so low that they won't adversely affect scaling
    Armor pen is "effective" because 3% armor pen is only +1% damage increase. As far as anyone can tell, "defense reduction" is a fake stat to hide flat damage gains behind, and works out to being identical to Crit in terms of damage gains and DRs assuming you don't have +% Crit damage.

    It's one of the responses to this thread if you want to have a look.
  • gravethoughtgravethought Member Posts: 31
    edited May 2013
    As far as I can tell that guy is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Armor pen has returns based on the damage reduction of your target. It has insane scaling in damage increase when your opponent has a very high defense. If I attack for 1k damage vs 30% mitigation with 0 armor pen it will hit for 700. Thus adding Adding 10% of armor pen will make it hit for 800 since 10% of his defense is ignored. That 10% armor pen then equates to a 14.3% damage increase.
  • omsgomsg Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Here is a recent video from a popular streamer breaking down all the offensive stats and showing they have diminishing returns.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4KdpzlbqU
  • byonahbyonah Member Posts: 81
    edited May 2013
    omsg wrote: »
    Here is a recent video from a popular streamer breaking down all the offensive stats and showing they have diminishing returns.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR4KdpzlbqU

    According to the stream, he says Armor Pen will be diminished due to other players debuffs, but in this thread the verdict is that Armor Pen is calculated before debuffs, and debuffs go below 0%, so if you manage to get the mobs to 0% simply from Armor Pen, then you will benefit more from debuffs.

    I do not know which one is correct.
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    The video was testing just the diminishing returns as a curve, the other thread was specifically testing how mitigation reducing debuffs play with armor pen. There is a fair chance the thread was right over the video.

    After doing my own testing I have the following results:

    Faerie fire results 3% bonus damage on a target which has no damage resistance when having no armor penetration.

    Faerie fire + 5 stacks of wicked reminder and no armor penetration results in 23.6% bonus damage.

    Faerie fire + 5 stacks of wicked reminder + 16.3% armor penetration results in 23.6% bonus damage.

    Based on these results I can say one of two things for certain:
    1. Armor penetration is calculated first and you gain bonus damage based on some combination of the debuffs applied to the target.

    or

    2. Targets with 0 defense/damage resistance to start with do not properly model the hypothesis.

    Chances are it's the first one. So stacking armor pen to reduce the target's resistance to 0 will provide the maximum benefit from party debuffs.
  • gravethoughtgravethought Member Posts: 31
    edited May 2013
    What exactly does farie fire's tooltip say it does anyway? I mean it seems you are in the ballpark since 5 stacks of wicked is 20%.
  • solsol1337solsol1337 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 241 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    Faerie Fire reduces the target's defense by 6%. Not entirely sure why that translates into a 3% damage buff, but it does (3% to within several decimal places).

    Just to be able to plot a curve to figure out exactly how faerie fire is interacting with wicked reminder, here are %'s for each stack of WR. I assume you tested to see that each stack of wicked reminder is exactly 4%?

    Also there is around a 1.5% margin of error in these percents due to the rounding in the combat log.
    FF+1 stack = 7.149% ~3+4%
    FF+2 stack = 11.252% ~3+8%
    FF+3 stack = 15.431% ~3+12%
    FF+4 stack = 19.467% ~3+16%
    FF+5 stack = 23.6% ~3+20%
  • byonahbyonah Member Posts: 81
    edited May 2013
    Confirmed that Armor Penetration is calculated before debuffs.

    5 Stacks Wicked Reminder with 15% Armor Penetration:

    w9jAK8S.png

    13% more dmg.

    5 Stacks Wicked Reminder with 16.7% Armor Penetration:

    9cSEmS8.png

    14.63% more dmg.


    14.63 - 13 = 1.63, very close to the Armor Pen gain, could be exact due to Armor Pen rounding up in game stats board.

    If Armor Pen was nullified due to debuffs reducing it below 0%, then the Armor Pen gain should not have changed anything, but it did.
  • gravethoughtgravethought Member Posts: 31
    edited May 2013
    solsol1337 wrote: »
    Faerie Fire reduces the target's defense by 6%. Not entirely sure why that translates into a 3% damage buff, but it does (3% to within several decimal places).

    Just to be able to plot a curve to figure out exactly how faerie fire is interacting with wicked reminder, here are %'s for each stack of WR. I assume you tested to see that each stack of wicked reminder is exactly 4%?

    Also there is around a 1.5% margin of error in these percents due to the rounding in the combat log.
    FF+1 stack = 7.149% ~3+4%
    FF+2 stack = 11.252% ~3+8%
    FF+3 stack = 15.431% ~3+12%
    FF+4 stack = 19.467% ~3+16%
    FF+5 stack = 23.6% ~3+20%

    I just double checked wicked reminder and it is indeed 4% a stack. Basically what seems to be going on here is each debuff is multiplicative, farie fire is actually 3% and the tooltip is wrong, which would explain your numbers precisely. 1.00 (base) X 1.2 (wicked reminderX5) X 1.03 (FF) gives all your numbers almost exactly (has to round somewhere). Sol can you do a no wicked reminder, only FF test to see if FF is 3%?

    WHAT THIS MEANS.

    There may not be any such thing as "Defense reduction" and all such affects simply are a damage multiplier on the monster.

    IF THIS IS TRUE

    Then armor pen is godlike, regardless of the debuffs on the enemy. Basically they will have no interaction with each other and if your target has armor to be ignored through armor pen it will always give the full increase regardless of what the debuffs on him are.
  • byonahbyonah Member Posts: 81
    edited May 2013
    edit: derped :D
  • kayniesauruskayniesaurus Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    can someone make me a summary? should i enchant armorpen? if yes, at which raiting should i stop and enchant something else? is the stat priority: armorpen > crit > recovery > power? thanks in advance :<
  • gravethoughtgravethought Member Posts: 31
    edited May 2013
    byonah wrote: »
    That is how it works, as i've shown in the post before this.



    I seem to get slightly different results, its getting smaller and smaller per stack:

    1 Stack:
    Ii3uhM1.png
    3.83%

    2 Stacks:
    YB9njzL.png
    7.38% (3.55%)

    3 Stacks:
    Ai4zyRC.png
    10.74% (3.36%)

    4 Stacks:
    OSrKGVq.png
    13.77% (3.03%)

    5 Stacks:
    cant post 5 pics, 1490 (1242)
    16.64% (2.87%)

    Increased damage is (New damage-old damage)/(Old damage) you divided it by the new total.
  • byonahbyonah Member Posts: 81
    edited May 2013
    Increased damage is (New damage-old damage)/(Old damage) you divided it by the new total.

    Ops, sorry i'll fix my previous post, thanks.

    Now that i fixed the math, if you look at post 40:
    byonah wrote: »
    Confirmed that Armor Penetration is calculated before debuffs.

    5 Stacks Wicked Reminder with 15% Armor Penetration:

    w9jAK8S.png

    13% more dmg.

    5 Stacks Wicked Reminder with 16.7% Armor Penetration:

    9cSEmS8.png

    14.63% more dmg.


    14.63 - 13 = 1.63, very close to the Armor Pen gain, could be exact due to Armor Pen rounding up in game stats board.

    If Armor Pen was nullified due to debuffs reducing it below 0%, then the Armor Pen gain should not have changed anything, but it did.

    It basically means 22% Armor Penetration is required to get full benefits on those level 60 Elite mobs in the foundry (Solo Grind). So i'd go for 22% minimum considering dungeon mobs are higher level.
  • freehugs9freehugs9 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 201 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2013
    For level 60 Try:
    Armor Penetration Tooltip = 35.7*ArmorPenetration^1.88/(1225000+ArmorPenetration^1.88)
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?301761-Calculating-stats-and-their-effects

    So Armor Penetration is definitely a liner reduction of the targets mitigation? I did a huge test of this on the target dummies then discovered they have almost no mitigation. -_-
  • verilosverilos Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 77
    edited August 2013
    Did they fix bleed armor pen bug?
  • rayzlerrayzler Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2013
    Is 45% Critical Chance ok for an executioner? I ran a human 18str / 16 dex so definetly won't reach 50%.
Sign In or Register to comment.