No need to resort to ad hominem when you aren't even talking about the topic. The topic of this thread is tenebrous is way too OP so nerfing classes is not right. My case was and still is.. on my very first post (if you've even read it...) , states that ALL THESE THINGS ARE STILL CAPABLE without the tenebrous yet people are saying it's not possible. I mean.. I'm watching HighPriest_Tymora's stream atm, and he's one shotting people as a TR with 0 tenebrous.
Now back to you, personally I think $20k is nothing but I mean if you think it's the price of a car.. then maybe your cars they are -shrugs-. I mean.. some homeless people have $2 cardboard boxes as a house and you just use the price of a house on coffee.. so shame on you? Dumb ****wit.
I'd have to say that roughly 80% of the community hasnt a clue generally what they are talking about when talking about other class's. Most people will agree with that.
Rogues with mediocre gear, a good build and good rotations can, and do one shot people. Even a bad rogue can one shot someone, the differance between a good rogue and a bad one is the bad will get lucky and one shot someone, then leave themselves open and be destroyed by the rest of the team, and a good rogue will one shot someone, and 2 shot 1-2 other people depending on the class's/gear of the opponents. All of which has nothing to do with Tenebrous enchants.
Over all,..stacking Tenebrous enchants will on paper, out dps class's without(depending on the person/build/skill), in a sustained fight. But as far as TR's are concerned, the major hits coming from Lashing, Dazing and Impact, have little to do with Tenebrous.
For me, my pvp matches I'm generally in the 18-25kills area, and I'd say 30% of those are one shots. 50% are 2-3 Shot kills, and the rest a sustained fight for kills, and I dont have one single Tenebrous, nor do I have even a lesser vorpal(cant afford atm).
Just yesterday I crit a CW for 33k. He messaged me and called me a hacking, cheating p2w a$$hole for using 7 Greater Tenebrous. This gave me a great laugh. Again, 80% I would say havent a clue what they are talking about, and want to rage when someone kills them in PvP. If the guy had even the slightest bit of common knowledge in this game, he would have looked at his combat log and found out it was just a huge crit with Lashing.
Atleast 1 out of 3 pvp matches I'm in, I'm getting tells from people calling me a p2w cheater. If I was p2w I wouldnt still have rank 5 enchants /laugh
0
maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'd have to say that roughly 80% of the community hasnt a clue generally what they are talking about when talking about other class's. Most people will agree with that.
Rogues with mediocre gear, a good build and good rotations can, and do one shot people. Even a bad rogue can one shot someone, the differance between a good rogue and a bad one is the bad will get lucky and one shot someone, then leave themselves open and be destroyed by the rest of the team, and a good rogue will one shot someone, and 2 shot 1-2 other people depending on the class's/gear of the opponents. All of which has nothing to do with Tenebrous enchants.
Over all,..stacking Tenebrous enchants will on paper, out dps class's without(depending on the person/build/skill), in a sustained fight. But as far as TR's are concerned, the major hits coming from Lashing, Dazing and Impact, have little to do with Tenebrous.
For me, my pvp matches I'm generally in the 18-25kills area, and I'd say 30% of those are one shots. 50% are 2-3 Shot kills, and the rest a sustained fight for kills, and I dont have one single Tenebrous, nor do I have even a lesser vorpal(cant afford atm).
Just yesterday I crit a CW for 33k. He messaged me and called me a hacking, cheating p2w a$$hole for using 7 Greater Tenebrous. This gave me a great laugh. Again, 80% I would say havent a clue what they are talking about, and want to rage when someone kills them in PvP. If the guy had even the slightest bit of common knowledge in this game, he would have looked at his combat log and found out it was just a huge crit with Lashing.
Atleast 1 out of 3 pvp matches I'm in, I'm getting tells from people calling me a p2w cheater. If I was p2w I wouldnt still have rank 5 enchants /laugh
Well I'm glad someone around here other than me has a clue about this game.
I completely agree with OP. Well except the part about GF's, they can 2-3 shot people without tene's hehe
Agreeing or not, its still false information.
No one gets "1-shot" by Greater Tenebrous enchants...or even 7 Greater Tenebrous. Do yourself a favor. The next time you are "1-shot",...take a half second and look in your combat log. I guarantee you it wont say "you take 23,567 damage from Greater Tenebrous", etc.
No one gets "1-shot" by Greater Tenebrous enchants...or even 7 Greater Tenebrous. Do yourself a favor. The next time you are "1-shot",...take a half second and look in your combat log. I guarantee you it wont say "you take 23,567 damage from Greater Tenebrous", etc.
Ok I have never been 1-shot by a TR even on my CW. 90% yes, 1-shot no heh. I'm not complaining about them, if you read other posts of mine you'll see that the enchants themselves really don't bother me. What bothers me is that people are whining about the CLASSES and those CLASSES are getting nerfed when in reality it's only the tenebrous enchant that makes them powerful.
TR was about to be decimated by nerfs b/c of everyone complaining about the top 2% that had 7 Gtene. And now GWF's are getting a big all around nerf b/c people are complaining about the tanky build that also does huge dps b/c of tenes. I have a tanky GWF without tenes, and while I can take a bunch of damage, I deal garbage damage and it's more than a fair trade off.
GF can be pretty tanky while still maintaining huge burst, they weren't nerfed so I have to assume that is intended. GWF can become more tanky than GF but they do less than half the damage, that's more than fair imo if GF is working as intended. The only thing that makes the class OP is when you slot 7 Gtenes which for that build at least would make up over half of their damage output.
How can you argue that the enchant is not the overpowered portion of this? Either you build huge damage or huge tank, a class shouldn't be able to Tank 3 players indefinitely AND burst someone down every 15 seconds. So should we nerf the class? No the class is already weak in PvE and balanced in PvP, the only thing unbalanced is adding Tenes to the mix, which only 2% of the population can afford 7 gtenes.
So nerf the 98% that aren't overpowered instead of just nerfing the enchant? really?
PS: this is just going to keep going on until all classes have equal HP, that's the only way we can achieve "balance" with offense slot enchants that stack and provide bonus damage based on HP... It's just so obviously the strongest offense enchant in the game.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
0
nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
TR was about to be decimated by nerfs b/c of everyone complaining about the top 2% that had 7 Gtene. And now GWF's are getting a big all around nerf b/c people are complaining about the tanky build that also does huge dps b/c of tenes. I have a tanky GWF without tenes, and while I can take a bunch of damage, I deal garbage damage and it's more than a fair trade off.
No... I've wrecked people with my TR when it had only rank 5 dark enchantments and I just recently geared up my sent GWF (2/2 titan/imposing+regen belt/rings) with only rank 5s and have absolutely been wrecking kids while face tanking 2-3. The damage is far from garbage. Perhaps it's your own game play that makes you think that everything is attributed to the greater tenes because it is not. While they do create an unfair advantage, they are not the sole reason for overpowered classes receiving nerfs.
PS: this is just going to keep going on until all classes have equal HP, that's the only way we can achieve "balance" with offense slot enchants that stack and provide bonus damage based on HP... It's just so obviously the strongest offense enchant in the game.
Near as I can tell, all classes do have equal HP. The difference is that only Fighters have CON as a primary stat.
Now back to you, personally I think $20k is nothing but I mean if you think it's the price of a car.. then maybe your cars they are -shrugs-. I mean.. some homeless people have $2 cardboard boxes as a house and you just use the price of a house on coffee.. so shame on you? Dumb ****wit.
With all the super-rich people on the internet, you wouldn't think there'd be so few in real life.
No... I've wrecked people with my TR when it had only rank 5 dark enchantments and I just recently geared up my sent GWF (2/2 titan/imposing+regen belt/rings) with only rank 5s and have absolutely been wrecking kids while face tanking 2-3. The damage is far from garbage. Perhaps it's your own game play that makes you think that everything is attributed to the greater tenes because it is not. While they do create an unfair advantage, they are not the sole reason for overpowered classes receiving nerfs.
Lol so do you have 37k HP, 53% deflect, 46% damage reduction, and 1300 regen? If not then you are sacrificing tankiness for damage, which means you can potentially be killed before using unstoppable with prones.
Perhaps there is a disconnect in the term garbage. Most classes build for burst and can take another class down to almost dead in 1 rotation. Even on a squishy target when I do knockdown, flourish, restoring strike they are still at about half or more, and my sure strikes don't hit for crazy either. without slam to slow them I generally kill a squishy in 10-20 seconds (vs. 2-3 seconds for a burst TR/CW/GF) This is also because they dodge a lot and I have to chase them down.
If you are killable by 2 players then you are not OP, perhaps you're getting 8k gs opponents...
GF can tank 2 and kill them both pretty easy, but according to devs (as they are not nerfing them) they are working as intended. So how is slightly tankier but half the damage any stronger? It's not, and class is balanced UNTIL you put tenes in the mix.
@ pfft2 - Right, certain classes just have the ability to build way more HP than others. Would the game really be fun at all if all builds we're confined to within 2k hp of each other? no build variation = players leaving, so I'd rather see Tenes nerfed, than all good builds nerfed and eventually large portion of players leaving over lack of variation.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
@ pfft2 - Right, certain classes just have the ability to build way more HP than others. Would the game really be fun at all if all builds we're confined to within 2k hp of each other? no build variation = players leaving, so I'd rather see Tenes nerfed, than all good builds nerfed and eventually large portion of players leaving over lack of variation.
Well, in theory, the only thing separating a Fighter's HP from (for example) a Wizard's is the initial Ability-score roll. If a Wizard really wanted to (and I've seen at least one player advocate this very approach, for PvE), he could start with as much as 14 CON, and end up with 20 CON. And since CON only modifies the base HP, and not the total HP including items -- the Fighter's class-derived advantage probably does only boil down to about 2,000 HP.
(+6 CON is 12% extra HP; 12% of 19,000 base HP is 2,280.)
But all of that is only tenuously relevant. The point is that Fighters not only have an (albeit small) advantage with regard to how much HP they can stack, they get more out of stacking HP than other classes, both because CON is one of their primary stats (conferring bonuses other than HP), and because they have massive damage mitigation perks that effectively multiply the value of their HP.
All of that is fine, until you toss an enchant into the mix that gives you an offensive reward for stacking a defensive attribute. So the classes that get the most defensive benefit out of stacking HP also get the most burst damage from Tenebrous enchants; beyond a certain point, the more unkillable you are, the less you sacrifice offensively. Almost by definition, the very notion of such a thing is an MMO-balance faux pas.
Now, I don't have a lot of personal experience with Tenebrous enchants, and as a casual PvPer I really don't care much either way, but just in principle it seems to me that the design theory involved here is deeply flawed.
So I hear they are on a 20sec cooldown on Preview is this true? And will they be making them this way on live servers? I would like to know before I drop 15 mill on them.
This game is designed to make as much money as possible on a day to day basis. It is not designed to be a great long term game.
Have you posted that armory link yet to show how you don't use them?
Hmmm no I haven't how do I go about doing that? Also why would I use them? Then I would be a bad player and this game would be even more boring in its Beta PvP broken state. Everyone knows I run Arm Pen now at 27.8% since a recent respect for more burst. You can always hit me up in game too Had a nice match vs Flyyyyyyy last week in a 3v3. First game he only had him and cleric vs our 3 rest pugs. We won. Then in a premade 3v3 they squeaked out the win after. I don't mind fighting players if they are chill with the right attitude and don't run Tene's. Then its actually fun.
So I hear they are on a 20sec cooldown on Preview is this true? And will they be making them this way on live servers? I would like to know before I drop 15 mill on them.
That still just means the tankiest character in the game can burst someone down every 20 seconds instead of 10... They need to reduce the number allowed per character to no more than 2.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
So I hear they are on a 20sec cooldown on Preview is this true? And will they be making them this way on live servers? I would like to know before I drop 15 mill on them.
Wait until patch, and you'll see, even with 20sec cd they gonna be really good. Doubt the prices will drop that much. With 7, you gonna have about 10sec were you get no proc. Then it's back to mad burst again for 7 hits.
Hmmm no I haven't how do I go about doing that? Also why would I use them? Then I would be a bad player and this game would be even more boring in its Beta PvP broken state. Everyone knows I run Arm Pen now at 27.8% since a recent respect for more burst. You can always hit me up in game too Had a nice match vs Flyyyyyyy last week in a 3v3. First game he only had him and cleric vs our 3 rest pugs. We won. Then in a premade 3v3 they squeaked out the win after. I don't mind fighting players if they are chill with the right attitude and don't run Tene's. Then its actually fun.
You have railed against them, and someone says he saw you using them. So one of the people is clearly mistaken.
Your claiming that they would make you a "bad player" is a rather silly one, given prior comments that seem to indicate you don't seem to understand basic class mechanics. It's even sillier given the number of players who seem to use them successfully and enjoy it. So please, enjoy the game but don't demand nerfs to others.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
You have railed against them, and someone says he saw you using them. So one of the people is clearly mistaken.
Your claiming that they would make you a "bad player" is a rather silly one, given prior comments that seem to indicate you don't seem to understand basic class mechanics. It's even sillier given the number of players who seem to use them successfully and enjoy it. So please, enjoy the game but don't demand nerfs to others.
Yea that rogue was just hurt I guess because I was dominating the match and realized I was the same guy on the forums. We had a discussion and the rogues I am with I feel is better then his perfect vorpal cash shop toon. So I think he got a lil moody. He even said he would of respected me since I am a good player but doesn't understand my stance on the forums. Latter he felt the need to trash me which I don't care if he lies I have nothing to prove in this pathetic state of a game. I guess he doesn't understand how I can do well and take the stance of this needs balanced but oh well. I want a better game and many exploits and things from Tene's to rogues need to be fixed till then. Ill be waiting playing another game and if this one looks interesting ill come back.
Currently I am bored my new thing to do is if I am not leading in points leave cause I want my blue item. Since glory doesn't do anything now the only prize is the blue item regardless if my team wins. So I do a couple matches for those. Each patch they break more stuff and make it worthless to play so the answer was simple stop playing. I log in now to invoke do professions maybe a GG but until Tene's and there is some incentive new maps 10v10 a huge glory shop with mounts and rares. Ill be chillin somewhere else. I mean no new titles even just a lame one for 5k kills that I got a million years ago. How about 25k kills or 100k kills. Guess they don't think ahead. Ill take a look at the armory thing for your amusement. As of now I doubt this game can improve and if it does it wont be this year. So ill do a year of invoking till next year when maybe we get past the Beta PvP and a open world to duel in. If it don't happen then the game can stay in beta and broke. There are so many games coming out
Comments
I'd have to say that roughly 80% of the community hasnt a clue generally what they are talking about when talking about other class's. Most people will agree with that.
Rogues with mediocre gear, a good build and good rotations can, and do one shot people. Even a bad rogue can one shot someone, the differance between a good rogue and a bad one is the bad will get lucky and one shot someone, then leave themselves open and be destroyed by the rest of the team, and a good rogue will one shot someone, and 2 shot 1-2 other people depending on the class's/gear of the opponents. All of which has nothing to do with Tenebrous enchants.
Over all,..stacking Tenebrous enchants will on paper, out dps class's without(depending on the person/build/skill), in a sustained fight. But as far as TR's are concerned, the major hits coming from Lashing, Dazing and Impact, have little to do with Tenebrous.
For me, my pvp matches I'm generally in the 18-25kills area, and I'd say 30% of those are one shots. 50% are 2-3 Shot kills, and the rest a sustained fight for kills, and I dont have one single Tenebrous, nor do I have even a lesser vorpal(cant afford atm).
Just yesterday I crit a CW for 33k. He messaged me and called me a hacking, cheating p2w a$$hole for using 7 Greater Tenebrous. This gave me a great laugh. Again, 80% I would say havent a clue what they are talking about, and want to rage when someone kills them in PvP. If the guy had even the slightest bit of common knowledge in this game, he would have looked at his combat log and found out it was just a huge crit with Lashing.
Atleast 1 out of 3 pvp matches I'm in, I'm getting tells from people calling me a p2w cheater. If I was p2w I wouldnt still have rank 5 enchants /laugh
Well I'm glad someone around here other than me has a clue about this game.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Agreeing or not, its still false information.
No one gets "1-shot" by Greater Tenebrous enchants...or even 7 Greater Tenebrous. Do yourself a favor. The next time you are "1-shot",...take a half second and look in your combat log. I guarantee you it wont say "you take 23,567 damage from Greater Tenebrous", etc.
Ok I have never been 1-shot by a TR even on my CW. 90% yes, 1-shot no heh. I'm not complaining about them, if you read other posts of mine you'll see that the enchants themselves really don't bother me. What bothers me is that people are whining about the CLASSES and those CLASSES are getting nerfed when in reality it's only the tenebrous enchant that makes them powerful.
TR was about to be decimated by nerfs b/c of everyone complaining about the top 2% that had 7 Gtene. And now GWF's are getting a big all around nerf b/c people are complaining about the tanky build that also does huge dps b/c of tenes. I have a tanky GWF without tenes, and while I can take a bunch of damage, I deal garbage damage and it's more than a fair trade off.
GF can be pretty tanky while still maintaining huge burst, they weren't nerfed so I have to assume that is intended. GWF can become more tanky than GF but they do less than half the damage, that's more than fair imo if GF is working as intended. The only thing that makes the class OP is when you slot 7 Gtenes which for that build at least would make up over half of their damage output.
How can you argue that the enchant is not the overpowered portion of this? Either you build huge damage or huge tank, a class shouldn't be able to Tank 3 players indefinitely AND burst someone down every 15 seconds. So should we nerf the class? No the class is already weak in PvE and balanced in PvP, the only thing unbalanced is adding Tenes to the mix, which only 2% of the population can afford 7 gtenes.
So nerf the 98% that aren't overpowered instead of just nerfing the enchant? really?
PS: this is just going to keep going on until all classes have equal HP, that's the only way we can achieve "balance" with offense slot enchants that stack and provide bonus damage based on HP... It's just so obviously the strongest offense enchant in the game.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
No... I've wrecked people with my TR when it had only rank 5 dark enchantments and I just recently geared up my sent GWF (2/2 titan/imposing+regen belt/rings) with only rank 5s and have absolutely been wrecking kids while face tanking 2-3. The damage is far from garbage. Perhaps it's your own game play that makes you think that everything is attributed to the greater tenes because it is not. While they do create an unfair advantage, they are not the sole reason for overpowered classes receiving nerfs.
Near as I can tell, all classes do have equal HP. The difference is that only Fighters have CON as a primary stat.
With all the super-rich people on the internet, you wouldn't think there'd be so few in real life.
Lol so do you have 37k HP, 53% deflect, 46% damage reduction, and 1300 regen? If not then you are sacrificing tankiness for damage, which means you can potentially be killed before using unstoppable with prones.
Perhaps there is a disconnect in the term garbage. Most classes build for burst and can take another class down to almost dead in 1 rotation. Even on a squishy target when I do knockdown, flourish, restoring strike they are still at about half or more, and my sure strikes don't hit for crazy either. without slam to slow them I generally kill a squishy in 10-20 seconds (vs. 2-3 seconds for a burst TR/CW/GF) This is also because they dodge a lot and I have to chase them down.
If you are killable by 2 players then you are not OP, perhaps you're getting 8k gs opponents...
GF can tank 2 and kill them both pretty easy, but according to devs (as they are not nerfing them) they are working as intended. So how is slightly tankier but half the damage any stronger? It's not, and class is balanced UNTIL you put tenes in the mix.
@ pfft2 - Right, certain classes just have the ability to build way more HP than others. Would the game really be fun at all if all builds we're confined to within 2k hp of each other? no build variation = players leaving, so I'd rather see Tenes nerfed, than all good builds nerfed and eventually large portion of players leaving over lack of variation.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Well, in theory, the only thing separating a Fighter's HP from (for example) a Wizard's is the initial Ability-score roll. If a Wizard really wanted to (and I've seen at least one player advocate this very approach, for PvE), he could start with as much as 14 CON, and end up with 20 CON. And since CON only modifies the base HP, and not the total HP including items -- the Fighter's class-derived advantage probably does only boil down to about 2,000 HP.
(+6 CON is 12% extra HP; 12% of 19,000 base HP is 2,280.)
But all of that is only tenuously relevant. The point is that Fighters not only have an (albeit small) advantage with regard to how much HP they can stack, they get more out of stacking HP than other classes, both because CON is one of their primary stats (conferring bonuses other than HP), and because they have massive damage mitigation perks that effectively multiply the value of their HP.
All of that is fine, until you toss an enchant into the mix that gives you an offensive reward for stacking a defensive attribute. So the classes that get the most defensive benefit out of stacking HP also get the most burst damage from Tenebrous enchants; beyond a certain point, the more unkillable you are, the less you sacrifice offensively. Almost by definition, the very notion of such a thing is an MMO-balance faux pas.
Now, I don't have a lot of personal experience with Tenebrous enchants, and as a casual PvPer I really don't care much either way, but just in principle it seems to me that the design theory involved here is deeply flawed.
Have you posted that armory link yet to show how you don't use them?
Hmmm no I haven't how do I go about doing that? Also why would I use them? Then I would be a bad player and this game would be even more boring in its Beta PvP broken state. Everyone knows I run Arm Pen now at 27.8% since a recent respect for more burst. You can always hit me up in game too
That still just means the tankiest character in the game can burst someone down every 20 seconds instead of 10... They need to reduce the number allowed per character to no more than 2.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Wait until patch, and you'll see, even with 20sec cd they gonna be really good. Doubt the prices will drop that much. With 7, you gonna have about 10sec were you get no proc. Then it's back to mad burst again for 7 hits.
You would do that this way: https://gateway.playneverwinter.com/#char(Rokuthy Sunrise@rokuthy)/charactersheet - just change the Rokuthy Sunrise@rokuthy to whatever your character's name is@your id.
You have railed against them, and someone says he saw you using them. So one of the people is clearly mistaken.
Your claiming that they would make you a "bad player" is a rather silly one, given prior comments that seem to indicate you don't seem to understand basic class mechanics. It's even sillier given the number of players who seem to use them successfully and enjoy it. So please, enjoy the game but don't demand nerfs to others.
Yea that rogue was just hurt I guess because I was dominating the match and realized I was the same guy on the forums. We had a discussion and the rogues I am with I feel is better then his perfect vorpal cash shop toon. So I think he got a lil moody. He even said he would of respected me since I am a good player but doesn't understand my stance on the forums. Latter he felt the need to trash me which I don't care if he lies I have nothing to prove in this pathetic state of a game. I guess he doesn't understand how I can do well and take the stance of this needs balanced but oh well. I want a better game and many exploits and things from Tene's to rogues need to be fixed till then. Ill be waiting playing another game and if this one looks interesting ill come back.
Currently I am bored my new thing to do is if I am not leading in points leave cause I want my blue item. Since glory doesn't do anything now the only prize is the blue item regardless if my team wins. So I do a couple matches for those. Each patch they break more stuff and make it worthless to play so the answer was simple stop playing. I log in now to invoke do professions maybe a GG but until Tene's and there is some incentive new maps 10v10 a huge glory shop with mounts and rares. Ill be chillin somewhere else. I mean no new titles even just a lame one for 5k kills that I got a million years ago. How about 25k kills or 100k kills. Guess they don't think ahead. Ill take a look at the armory thing for your amusement. As of now I doubt this game can improve and if it does it wont be this year. So ill do a year of invoking till next year when maybe we get past the Beta PvP and a open world to duel in. If it don't happen then the game can stay in beta and broke. There are so many games coming out
lets see if that works.