I use divine fortune and healers lore, and I don't think I'll be switching anytime soon. I like foresight but I like healer's lore more!
So basically the whole point of using BOH is for the dmg mitigation which you have to feat for and to have an extra more powerful group heal. But, in order to run your setup you are forcing yourself into using divine fortune to keep your DP up since you lack damaging abilities and Healers Lore to have enough healing to keep people alive? Because otherwise there's no point in slotting it if it simply provides overhealing. And all this to get 10% dmg mitigation for 6seconds when by simply using feated foresight you have a permant 11% mitigation for the enitre party...So on top of changing everything around to have less dmg mitigation over less time you had to feat out of moontouched which means more lost healing and you can't run HV so you have more downtime on HG which means even less mitigation. Unless I'm missing something of course, smh
So basically the whole point of using BOH is for the dmg mitigation which you have to feat for and to have an extra more powerful group heal. But, in order to run your setup you are forcing yourself into using divine fortune to keep your DP up since you lack damaging abilities and Healers Lore to have enough healing to keep people alive? Because otherwise there's no point in slotting it if it simply provides overhealing. And all this to get 10% dmg mitigation for 6seconds when by simply using feated foresight you have a permant 11% mitigation for the enitre party...So on top of changing everything around to have less dmg mitigation over less time you had to feat out of moontouched which means more lost healing and you can't run HV so you have more downtime on HG which means even less mitigation. Unless I'm missing something of course, smh
You're right. These people don't understand how to link feats and encounters/dailies together properly.
Just like the guy yesterday, Meanwhateverhisnameis, told me he was using Divine Armor for the group as his Daily, yet I comment on how he throws all his encounters at the same time, and he comes back saying he doesnt need to save any encounters and throws them all at the same time because he doesnt need the extra healing.
How does that make sense? If you don't need to worry about healing and keeping people at 100%, why use Divine Armor? Use Hollowed Ground instead, like a smart person, and give the group an offensive boost. Divine Armor doesn't do nothing to increase group DPS. I don't think I've ever used it in a PvE setting. It's OK for PVP, but I'd still rather use Hollowed Ground in PVP personally as it's offense/defense and I have it feated for the heal bonus. I'd be using that or Hammer.
So you dont need healing, but you give a bogus buff daily over a daily that gives an offense boost which is where you say your group is at, needing damage buffs instead of healing. Make sense to you?
My word, get out of my thread. Your negativity isn't appreciated - this is a game, let people play it without trying to make everyone use a cookie-cutter build.
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shelendilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So basically the whole point of using BOH is for the dmg mitigation which you have to feat for and to have an extra more powerful group heal. But, in order to run your setup you are forcing yourself into using divine fortune to keep your DP up since you lack damaging abilities and Healers Lore to have enough healing to keep people alive? Because otherwise there's no point in slotting it if it simply provides overhealing. And all this to get 10% dmg mitigation for 6seconds when by simply using feated foresight you have a permant 11% mitigation for the enitre party...So on top of changing everything around to have less dmg mitigation over less time you had to feat out of moontouched which means more lost healing and you can't run HV so you have more downtime on HG which means even less mitigation. Unless I'm missing something of course, smh
The whole point of using BoH is linked spirit. Warding shield/Healer's lore over Moontouched/Foresight a noticeable loss in mitigation and a minor loss in healing, but the gain would be the stats from linked spirit.
The whole point of using BoH is linked spirit. Warding shield/Healer's lore over Moontouched/Foresight a noticeable loss in mitigation and a minor loss in healing, but the gain would be the stats from linked spirit.
Aren't most people running Linked Spirit proc'ing it with Sunburst tabbing though? How much extra uptime do you think you're really getting for Linked Spirit between Sunbursts? I thought the Linked Spirit buff lasted pretty much through until Sunburst cools down again. I'll have to check next time I login.
Either way, I still don't see the benefit of running such a small heal like Bastion just for any Linked Spirit buff. You can throw Linked Spirit up pretty much fulltime (I think) with Sunburst. Even a fully feated Bastion isnt going to be as much a heal as the HoT from a Healing Word. You can restore someone almost 75% HP with a healing word...and have 4 or 5 of them available really quickly.
I've seen a lot of people talking about using Bastion lately both in-game and on the forums. I haven't yet been convinced of any way to use it or feat for it that makes it better than a Healing Word slotted instead.
I have no problem targeting the person I want with HW 90% of the time, and I can usually read the situation pretty well to know who's going to need it and when and have it on them before they start taking the damage they're taking because they're outta the blue shield or taking damage for another reason.
I just can't see slotting Bastion for anything. At best feated up its what? 11-12k heal? You can't sell me on that. I don't care if it procs linked spirit or not. I've got Linked Spirit up almost fulltime with Sunburst and I don't have to waste feat points on Bastion.
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xmeanseason305xMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 109Bounty Hunter
edited August 2013
the great thing about this game is that as DC's we can pretty much a HAMSTER ton of different builds and clear the same content...
one last thing too note..warding shield....AND forsight{w benefit}
its all about defense AND mitigation.
;-]
btw...have you read the divine armor tooltip..there's obvious reasons why i aim to have as much of an uptime w divine armor.
tip..look over my first failthful 5 points...hint hint...and the "offensive boost " from a HG feated moontouch means i have to actually spend 10 feats...invig healing {5} andf then 5 in moontouch....nah i rather spend the 5 in warding shield....make up most of the lost heals from 5/5 linked...[when i rarely would actually need the extra heals} and call it a day.
try the build man..i promise you would like it...and it'sd just something different...stop being such a hater...so negative....i never said this is the perfect build..or the ONLY build a MUST have build..i said this is MY build...that I use...and i enjoy...so i decided to share...#nonewfriends
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shelendilMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Aren't most people running Linked Spirit proc'ing it with Sunburst tabbing though? How much extra uptime do you think you're really getting for Linked Spirit between Sunbursts? I thought the Linked Spirit buff lasted pretty much through until Sunburst cools down again. I'll have to check next time I login.
Either way, I still don't see the benefit of running such a small heal like Bastion just for any Linked Spirit buff. You can throw Linked Spirit up pretty much fulltime (I think) with Sunburst. Even a fully feated Bastion isnt going to be as much a heal as the HoT from a Healing Word. You can restore someone almost 75% HP with a healing word...and have 4 or 5 of them available really quickly.
I've seen a lot of people talking about using Bastion lately both in-game and on the forums. I haven't yet been convinced of any way to use it or feat for it that makes it better than a Healing Word slotted instead.
I have no problem targeting the person I want with HW 90% of the time, and I can usually read the situation pretty well to know who's going to need it and when and have it on them before they start taking the damage they're taking because they're outta the blue shield or taking damage for another reason.
I just can't see slotting Bastion for anything. At best feated up its what? 11-12k heal? You can't sell me on that. I don't care if it procs linked spirit or not. I've got Linked Spirit up almost fulltime with Sunburst and I don't have to waste feat points on Bastion.
After they fix the tabbing with Sunburst, BoH will be the easiest way to proc Linked Spirit, and my post was written with that in mind.
After they fix the tabbing with Sunburst, BoH will be the easiest way to proc Linked Spirit, and my post was written with that in mind.
I personally prefer HW.
And there's the problem I have right there with the "fix" to Sunburst tabbing to proc Linked Spirit. Now the ONLY way it's feasible to put feat points into Linked Spirit to even have Linked Spirit is Bastion.
So after the patch, either you put feat points into BOTH Bastion AND Linked Spirit, just to get the Linked Spirit full sized buff, or you're wasting feat points into Linked Spirit completely.
The "fix" is making Linked Spirit feat useless or utterly ridiculous expensive on feats to get. Bastion will be the ONLY way to proc a fully buffed Linked Spirit on the group.
Now you'll have to soak up so many points into feats it WONT be worth it over all those points spent elsewhere in your feats.
Unfortunately, I'll be un-slotting Linked Spirit after this "fix". It's gonna be too expensive and I think Bastion even feated is a cruddy heal that needs utterly re-done.
Forge is better almost than Bastion.
I'll still be rocking HW after the "fix" I'm sure, and I'll have more points to throw around because Linked Spirit will be broken or the healer will be handicapping themselves on PRO speed runs.
I don't think it's possible to do the CN speed runs we do, Shel, with Bastion. I wouldn't wanna try clearing Spider to Beholder like we do with Bastion just to get Linked Spirit up. It would equal so much death and slow us down I'm betting.
Yes you may be able to play without sun burst and with BoH but you just make your own job harder - and maybe people using more potions too. That's the purpose of my build: making runs smooth, quiet and enjoyable for everyone, and not smashing the 3-5 buttons desperately waiting for the potion to get out of CD. 95% of the DCs i've played with not using sun burst have been under average players, and those runs are most of the times painful, with a lot of gold expenses. Not that i mind, that's just my experience. Playing a CW helped me becoming a better DC too, now that i'm aware of the other classes needs.
Sometimes, being original doesn't pay off. And if everyone has the same build, blame the devs for poorly balanced spell trees.
My word, get out of my thread. Your negativity isn't appreciated - this is a game, let people play it without trying to make everyone use a cookie-cutter build.
Actually your can't kick me out of your thread nor keep me from stating my opinion. That said, I'm not hating on your build. I just don't find it optimal and I'm presenting well reasoned thoughts and ideas as to why. Players who are here reading on the Forum should be allowed to decide for themselves what they prefer or what works for their playstyle. I'm just simply putting said info out there for them. Call it playing devils advocate if you will.
In reality though this game becomes fairly easy to overgear the content once you've played a bit and therefore there are really a lot of things you can do, in terms of feats, powers, etc and still have it work fine. Honestly you can take your heroic feats and then feat into benefit of foresight and only that and clear just about all the content like that. So in the long run feats are kind of at your discretion in this game (once you have the gear for it) So at that point it comes down to playstyle and personal preferance. If you have a regular group of people you play with then you may factor in what classes they are and how they like to play in order to make setup you feel is the best for your situation.
Once they fix the SB/tab proc on LS then the only reliable way to proc it is yes from BOH. The thing is, for me at least, LS just becomes not worth it at the point. Really the only use LS has is increasing anybodys stats that might be a little low, like maybe armor pen or something on some of the dps classes. the bonuses to crit and recov are wasted since everybody already has those capped so much. the buff to defence can be useful in some situations but normally people are already at max mitigation values or close enough that it doesnt make that much difference. So finally the main bonus is to power, which sure mroe power is always nice but it scales horribly unfortunately so it's not a huge loss. Everybody ran fine without LS before the AS change and then everybody specced into it, well no doubt some people will continue to use it and a lot of us will simply go back to not feating it, simple as that. Obviously it's more beneficial for people who are still gearing up and could use some stat boosts.
I could maybe see this set up as being easier to play since you hardly have to target and most of your spells have higher CD's. therefore you just throw out big areas and then at-will away till they reset. Don't have to worry about being johnny on the spot so much and with divine fortune it makes keeping DP a cake walk, especially if you feated into ethereal boon also.
All in all it's got pros and cons, for both geared people and players who are still gearing up and working their way through the content. Personally I will never understand why anybody would choose to pass up feated foresight since it's almost 100% uptime on 11% dmg mitigation for entire party and it's cheap to get featwise. I would find this build to make more sense without using healer's lore, especially when it's not feated, and using foresight instead. Can never go wrong with constant mitigation.
As meanseason mentioned to get to moontouched now yeah you kinda feel like you waste 5 points, unless your your running a temp hp build like he is. then it would make sense to take both deepstones and enduring relief. For me personally I didn't find the temp hp set up worth it. I don't need the extra healing from deepstones or all the temp hp from sacred flame, DA, etc to keep my party up so I pass on it. On top of that I don't really enjoy having to use sacred flame in pve so another reason to stay away from that. I prefer HG for more dmg and faster runs etc, plus moontouched actually heals a lot and passive healing is awesome since I don't have to do anything. But yeah for me though it will feel like 5 subpar points into invigorated heaing or power of life. Not high on either of them but oh well. I currently have 5 wasted points sitting in mark of mending since Ithought it might be worth it but turned out to toally not be. I'd probably put 4 of those into divine advantage if I respecced and another into rising hope to have 2 points there and then move my LS points to oen of the two previous mentioned feats.
Last buut not least, since I already mentioned that you can essentially do almost all the content regardless of how you have your feats I prefer to be able to run my set up requiring only 2 encounter slots and have a third one available for situational moments. Divine Glow for clearing or maybe searing light for CN, HW/FF for more healing, POD for say FH, etc. Kinda whatever you want where's with your build your only decision seems to be HW or SB
Those are my thoughts on the matter and everybody gets to make their own decisions. cheers
Actually your can't kick me out of your thread nor keep me from stating my opinion. That said, I'm not hating on your build. I just don't find it optimal and I'm presenting well reasoned thoughts and ideas as to why.
@fefeenah, I always love it when people try something new or experiment. I'm not the type to care who is on top of what chart or dying because we want to try something new. I'm also not a fan of people saying so and so classes are useless if you going to do CN, etc. Note: useless to them means the runs aren't fast and not guaranteed success. I honestly don't CARE so long as I'm having fun. If I am going for something and need to be successful then yea I will say so. But what I am is not a quitter! I've run 2 GWFs with no CW in an intensive "CW must have!" situations and worked just fine. I've run with GFs and single-healed T2 when people were doing 2 CWs and 2 DCs for double AS, I've been using HW when people think FF was a "MUST!!!"... I think you get my drift. I love that many people have different ways of playing the game. It's about fun for me. IMHO I think some people who've quit this game was too focused on pixels and forgot about fun.
That being said, regarding your original post, I do run the following (note I'm a healing crit built DC with focus on Str and Cha; crit, recovery, power, and wishes my defense is a little higher):
Passives:
Foresight and either holy fervor or divine fortune (because of the way I'm feated, these passives work well)
Encounters:
I always have AS and SB. Sunburst is just so useful specially when you tab and if you equip holy fervor, you can pretty much put Hallowed Ground over and over and with AS, you can just damage on your 3rd slot for fun if you've got moontouch feat.
If wearing divine fortune - Healing Word, Bastion of Health
If wearing holy fervor - Break the Spirit, Divine Glow, Forgemaster's Flame
Daily:
Hallowed ground and Divine Armor (for oops situations or if I know we're moving to the next area anyway)
At Wills:
BotS and Astral Shield (BotS is good at getting divinity specially if you have to run around)
Knowing the dungeon is key for me as it tells you when to put on what encounter. The third slot and 1 passive is the only thing I switch out. If my party thinks they can get away with NOT drinking a pot with a cleric in the group, I just educate them as they are most likely new to the game as that is not how this game works. If they are not new to the game, and even if they are very skilled but downright rude and mean to me or others in the party, then they are on my ignore list. If it turns out my entire party definitely did not drink 1 pot because of me that's just mean I should've equipped a debuff/buff encounter on my 3rd slot as that would've been more useful.
@fefeenah, I always love it when people try something new or experiment. I'm not the type to care who is on top of what chart or dying because we want to try something new. I'm also not a fan of people saying so and so classes are useless if you going to do CN, etc. Note: useless to them means the runs aren't fast and not guaranteed success. I honestly don't CARE so long as I'm having fun. If I am going for something and need to be successful then yea I will say so. But what I am is not a quitter! I've run 2 GWFs with no CW in an intensive "CW must have!" situations and worked just fine. I've run with GFs and single-healed T2 when people were doing 2 CWs and 2 DCs for double AS, I've been using HW when people think FF was a "MUST!!!"... I think you get my drift. I love that many people have different ways of playing the game. It's about fun for me. IMHO I think some people who've quit this game was too focused on pixels and forgot about fun.
That being said, regarding your original post, I do run the following (note I'm a healing crit built DC with focus on Str and Cha; crit, recovery, power, and wishes my defense is a little higher):
Passives:
Foresight and either holy fervor or divine fortune (because of the way I'm feated, these passives work well)
Encounters:
I always have AS and SB. Sunburst is just so useful specially when you tab and if you equip holy fervor, you can pretty much put Hallowed Ground over and over and with AS, you can just damage on your 3rd slot for fun if you've got moontouch feat.
If wearing divine fortune - Healing Word, Bastion of Health
If wearing holy fervor - Break the Spirit, Divine Glow, Forgemaster's Flame
Daily:
Hallowed ground and Divine Armor (for oops situations or if I know we're moving to the next area anyway)
At Wills:
BotS and Astral Shield (BotS is good at getting divinity specially if you have to run around)
Knowing the dungeon is key for me as it tells you when to put on what encounter. The third slot and 1 passive is the only thing I switch out. If my party thinks they can get away with NOT drinking a pot with a cleric in the group, I just educate them as they are most likely new to the game as that is not how this game works. If they are not new to the game, and even if they are very skilled but downright rude and mean to me or others in the party, then they are on my ignore list. If it turns out my entire party definitely did not drink 1 pot because of me that's just mean I should've equipped a debuff/buff encounter on my 3rd slot as that would've been more useful.
Hope that helps you answer your original post.
Very useful, thank you! I am rethinking the healer's lore/foresight thing. The trouble is that I'd have to redo my build. But I'll think on it a bit more.
rank 3 foresight is a total of 6% and benefit of foresight (5 points feated} is an additional 5%
hope this helps m8!
Yeah thanks, I havn't really read what Foresight did, tought it was just a passive for yourself. lol.
Doub't i will spec for that Feat anytime soon tho. Would have to skip a couple of Feats that i feel is crucial for PVP.
My sole purpose for this thread was to find out what people were using and if my set up was viable
To answer whether your set up is viable, try it out in your favourite dungeons -- did you finish the dungeon in a reasonable timeframe?
Now, viable is different from optimal, but even optimal is subjective. What's better, finishing a dungeon quickly or finishing a dungeon with no unintentional deaths? Is finishing a dungeon with no deaths always the fastest?
Now, meanseason's build is definitely viable since you see that he can complete CN with it. But is it optimal, and do you care?
If you want to know what I'm using, it's Sunburst - Astral Shield - Divine Glow (sub Healing Word for some situations), Hallowed Ground - Divine Armour, Holy Fervor (sub Divine Fortune when using HW) and feated Foresight, +Linked Spirit. And then it's about finding a party that can take advantage of my setup, or swapping around my skills to at least be able to get through the dungeon, even if it takes a few tries. I've completed CN with it so it's "viable".
To answer whether your set up is viable, try it out in your favourite dungeons -- did you finish the dungeon in a reasonable timeframe?
Now, viable is different from optimal, but even optimal is subjective. What's better, finishing a dungeon quickly or finishing a dungeon with no unintentional deaths? Is finishing a dungeon with no deaths always the fastest?
Now, meanseason's build is definitely viable since you see that he can complete CN with it. But is it optimal, and do you care?
I do finish in a reasonable time and the deaths aren't generally my fault (except when I make a mistake, which is not spec related obviously.) I think it's safe to say that while you can certainly save people from their own mistakes (and I often do) you aren't always able to in this game. And in any case I play with my guild, and we're very kind to each other - it's not about what's the best and only way of doing something, it's about gaming together.
So no, I honestly don't think I really care about what's optimal. I did that for 8 years in WoW and for once in my gaming life I want to have fun and play in a way that makes it fun. For me right now, I'm not concerned about how much I'm healing, only that my party stays alive (which I do!) so that we can finish all the content we attempt. And so far we've been doing that, and it's been a blast
Why do you use divine glow btw? To make things go quicker? I've considered swapping out something to provide more buffs/dps to my party for those times when they really don't need healing.
EDIT: I should probably clarify this as well -- I wanted to make sure my set up was "viable" or whatever word you want to use there because it's FUN and I wanted to be sure I wasn't totally crazy for using it.
Yeah thanks, I havn't really read what Foresight did, tought it was just a passive for yourself. lol.
Doub't i will spec for that Feat anytime soon tho. Would have to skip a couple of Feats that i feel is crucial for PVP.
Isn't have a nice chunk of free dmg mitigation in PVP kinda important? Especially with 100% uptime.
Why do you use divine glow btw? To make things go quicker? I've considered swapping out something to provide more buffs/dps to my party for those times when they really don't need healing.
Yeah, to make things go quicker. I usually have one or two friends with me in parties and they really like it. I even wear High Prophet's to give more extra damage, but since I've never timed a dungeon run, I have no idea if my setup is optimal. Theoretically, I can give +95% damage on a single target pretty often. In practice, I give +65% damage to one person on one target about 60% of the time, and +95% to that person and everyone else ~40% a quarter of the time... or something. The idea is, people need less healing if things die really fast, and you can fit more dungeon runs in a DD. So bring your best rogues and wizards.
EDIT: I should probably clarify this as well -- I wanted to make sure my set up was "viable" or whatever word you want to use there because it's FUN and I wanted to be sure I wasn't totally crazy for using it.
Well, my point was that it really doesn't matter if other people think you're crazy for using your set up if you can get through your favourite dungeons with your favourite group in a reasonable amount of time, where you and your group decide what's reasonable.
I've replaced my healing word with sunburst for a few fights, and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on anything by doing this? It seems to generate the most action points and divinity and I feel very in control of the situation.
Most set ups are Bastion/Healing word/Shield or Sunburst/Forgemaster's/Shield from what I've seen.
Since the ninja-buffing of bastion - it has become a mainstay in my healing mode. Also loving warding shield.
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swingchildMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 8Arc User
I don't really get why people remark we're not the typical MMO healer, that we are more interesting or versatile. We're absolutely not. We have less interesting things to contribute and our healing output is laughable by comparison. We could talk about buffing, debuffing, etc, but seriously, we don't get to do any of that because we have to take the same three boring, healbot powers to run any of the T2 content.
Do you really feel that healing is so difficult you have to take the same three powers? I've healed without AS, just to see how doable it was (it's quite doable), I've healed with ONLY AS, and two other offensive powers; very easy. Healing in this game IS EASY. The reason playing a cleric is fun is because being a good cleric is all about how much more damage you can contribute to the group, sometimes in the form of your own damage, often in the form of buffing group damage.
I don't know why you're so down on healing in this game, it's the most dynamic, fun, thoughtful healing I've done in any MMO I've ever played.
A big problem with this game is that so much damage is avoidable. "Stand in red" vs "avoid red" makes a huge difference to team damage.
This means if you have a GOOD team, that are situationally aware and know how to dodge, you pretty much don't even need to be there. All astral shield does is allow them to not bother dodging while they're in the blue, and the rest of the time you can pretty much pew pew with space lazors if you want.
Conversely, if you have a BAD team, that aggro everything on the map and then stand in fire, no amount of healing is going to pull them through.
It often matters far less how good WE are than it does how good our group is. We only make a real difference if the party is 'not QUITE good enough to complete the dungeon'. If they're utterly awful then nothing will help, and if they're good enough then all we're doing is allowing lazier play.
Compare this with a game that puts emphasis on unavoidable autoattack damage: every party, no matter how good, is going to be taking damage constantly, and the success/fail chance becomes much more dependent on the healer. Healers are useful throughout the entire skill-range, rather than simply contributing to success/fail ratios of marginal cases.
Comments
So basically the whole point of using BOH is for the dmg mitigation which you have to feat for and to have an extra more powerful group heal. But, in order to run your setup you are forcing yourself into using divine fortune to keep your DP up since you lack damaging abilities and Healers Lore to have enough healing to keep people alive? Because otherwise there's no point in slotting it if it simply provides overhealing. And all this to get 10% dmg mitigation for 6seconds when by simply using feated foresight you have a permant 11% mitigation for the enitre party...So on top of changing everything around to have less dmg mitigation over less time you had to feat out of moontouched which means more lost healing and you can't run HV so you have more downtime on HG which means even less mitigation. Unless I'm missing something of course, smh
You're right. These people don't understand how to link feats and encounters/dailies together properly.
Just like the guy yesterday, Meanwhateverhisnameis, told me he was using Divine Armor for the group as his Daily, yet I comment on how he throws all his encounters at the same time, and he comes back saying he doesnt need to save any encounters and throws them all at the same time because he doesnt need the extra healing.
How does that make sense? If you don't need to worry about healing and keeping people at 100%, why use Divine Armor? Use Hollowed Ground instead, like a smart person, and give the group an offensive boost. Divine Armor doesn't do nothing to increase group DPS. I don't think I've ever used it in a PvE setting. It's OK for PVP, but I'd still rather use Hollowed Ground in PVP personally as it's offense/defense and I have it feated for the heal bonus. I'd be using that or Hammer.
So you dont need healing, but you give a bogus buff daily over a daily that gives an offense boost which is where you say your group is at, needing damage buffs instead of healing. Make sense to you?
The whole point of using BoH is linked spirit. Warding shield/Healer's lore over Moontouched/Foresight a noticeable loss in mitigation and a minor loss in healing, but the gain would be the stats from linked spirit.
Aren't most people running Linked Spirit proc'ing it with Sunburst tabbing though? How much extra uptime do you think you're really getting for Linked Spirit between Sunbursts? I thought the Linked Spirit buff lasted pretty much through until Sunburst cools down again. I'll have to check next time I login.
Either way, I still don't see the benefit of running such a small heal like Bastion just for any Linked Spirit buff. You can throw Linked Spirit up pretty much fulltime (I think) with Sunburst. Even a fully feated Bastion isnt going to be as much a heal as the HoT from a Healing Word. You can restore someone almost 75% HP with a healing word...and have 4 or 5 of them available really quickly.
I've seen a lot of people talking about using Bastion lately both in-game and on the forums. I haven't yet been convinced of any way to use it or feat for it that makes it better than a Healing Word slotted instead.
I have no problem targeting the person I want with HW 90% of the time, and I can usually read the situation pretty well to know who's going to need it and when and have it on them before they start taking the damage they're taking because they're outta the blue shield or taking damage for another reason.
I just can't see slotting Bastion for anything. At best feated up its what? 11-12k heal? You can't sell me on that. I don't care if it procs linked spirit or not. I've got Linked Spirit up almost fulltime with Sunburst and I don't have to waste feat points on Bastion.
one last thing too note..warding shield....AND forsight{w benefit}
its all about defense AND mitigation.
;-]
btw...have you read the divine armor tooltip..there's obvious reasons why i aim to have as much of an uptime w divine armor.
tip..look over my first failthful 5 points...hint hint...and the "offensive boost " from a HG feated moontouch means i have to actually spend 10 feats...invig healing {5} andf then 5 in moontouch....nah i rather spend the 5 in warding shield....make up most of the lost heals from 5/5 linked...[when i rarely would actually need the extra heals} and call it a day.
try the build man..i promise you would like it...and it'sd just something different...stop being such a hater...so negative....i never said this is the perfect build..or the ONLY build a MUST have build..i said this is MY build...that I use...and i enjoy...so i decided to share...#nonewfriends
After they fix the tabbing with Sunburst, BoH will be the easiest way to proc Linked Spirit, and my post was written with that in mind.
I personally prefer HW.
And there's the problem I have right there with the "fix" to Sunburst tabbing to proc Linked Spirit. Now the ONLY way it's feasible to put feat points into Linked Spirit to even have Linked Spirit is Bastion.
So after the patch, either you put feat points into BOTH Bastion AND Linked Spirit, just to get the Linked Spirit full sized buff, or you're wasting feat points into Linked Spirit completely.
The "fix" is making Linked Spirit feat useless or utterly ridiculous expensive on feats to get. Bastion will be the ONLY way to proc a fully buffed Linked Spirit on the group.
Now you'll have to soak up so many points into feats it WONT be worth it over all those points spent elsewhere in your feats.
Unfortunately, I'll be un-slotting Linked Spirit after this "fix". It's gonna be too expensive and I think Bastion even feated is a cruddy heal that needs utterly re-done.
Forge is better almost than Bastion.
I'll still be rocking HW after the "fix" I'm sure, and I'll have more points to throw around because Linked Spirit will be broken or the healer will be handicapping themselves on PRO speed runs.
I don't think it's possible to do the CN speed runs we do, Shel, with Bastion. I wouldn't wanna try clearing Spider to Beholder like we do with Bastion just to get Linked Spirit up. It would equal so much death and slow us down I'm betting.
Sometimes, being original doesn't pay off. And if everyone has the same build, blame the devs for poorly balanced spell trees.
Actually your can't kick me out of your thread nor keep me from stating my opinion. That said, I'm not hating on your build. I just don't find it optimal and I'm presenting well reasoned thoughts and ideas as to why. Players who are here reading on the Forum should be allowed to decide for themselves what they prefer or what works for their playstyle. I'm just simply putting said info out there for them. Call it playing devils advocate if you will.
In reality though this game becomes fairly easy to overgear the content once you've played a bit and therefore there are really a lot of things you can do, in terms of feats, powers, etc and still have it work fine. Honestly you can take your heroic feats and then feat into benefit of foresight and only that and clear just about all the content like that. So in the long run feats are kind of at your discretion in this game (once you have the gear for it) So at that point it comes down to playstyle and personal preferance. If you have a regular group of people you play with then you may factor in what classes they are and how they like to play in order to make setup you feel is the best for your situation.
Once they fix the SB/tab proc on LS then the only reliable way to proc it is yes from BOH. The thing is, for me at least, LS just becomes not worth it at the point. Really the only use LS has is increasing anybodys stats that might be a little low, like maybe armor pen or something on some of the dps classes. the bonuses to crit and recov are wasted since everybody already has those capped so much. the buff to defence can be useful in some situations but normally people are already at max mitigation values or close enough that it doesnt make that much difference. So finally the main bonus is to power, which sure mroe power is always nice but it scales horribly unfortunately so it's not a huge loss. Everybody ran fine without LS before the AS change and then everybody specced into it, well no doubt some people will continue to use it and a lot of us will simply go back to not feating it, simple as that. Obviously it's more beneficial for people who are still gearing up and could use some stat boosts.
I could maybe see this set up as being easier to play since you hardly have to target and most of your spells have higher CD's. therefore you just throw out big areas and then at-will away till they reset. Don't have to worry about being johnny on the spot so much and with divine fortune it makes keeping DP a cake walk, especially if you feated into ethereal boon also.
All in all it's got pros and cons, for both geared people and players who are still gearing up and working their way through the content. Personally I will never understand why anybody would choose to pass up feated foresight since it's almost 100% uptime on 11% dmg mitigation for entire party and it's cheap to get featwise. I would find this build to make more sense without using healer's lore, especially when it's not feated, and using foresight instead. Can never go wrong with constant mitigation.
As meanseason mentioned to get to moontouched now yeah you kinda feel like you waste 5 points, unless your your running a temp hp build like he is. then it would make sense to take both deepstones and enduring relief. For me personally I didn't find the temp hp set up worth it. I don't need the extra healing from deepstones or all the temp hp from sacred flame, DA, etc to keep my party up so I pass on it. On top of that I don't really enjoy having to use sacred flame in pve so another reason to stay away from that. I prefer HG for more dmg and faster runs etc, plus moontouched actually heals a lot and passive healing is awesome since I don't have to do anything. But yeah for me though it will feel like 5 subpar points into invigorated heaing or power of life. Not high on either of them but oh well. I currently have 5 wasted points sitting in mark of mending since Ithought it might be worth it but turned out to toally not be. I'd probably put 4 of those into divine advantage if I respecced and another into rising hope to have 2 points there and then move my LS points to oen of the two previous mentioned feats.
Last buut not least, since I already mentioned that you can essentially do almost all the content regardless of how you have your feats I prefer to be able to run my set up requiring only 2 encounter slots and have a third one available for situational moments. Divine Glow for clearing or maybe searing light for CN, HW/FF for more healing, POD for say FH, etc. Kinda whatever you want where's with your build your only decision seems to be HW or SB
Those are my thoughts on the matter and everybody gets to make their own decisions. cheers
That wasn't even directed to you...
That being said, regarding your original post, I do run the following (note I'm a healing crit built DC with focus on Str and Cha; crit, recovery, power, and wishes my defense is a little higher):
Passives:
Foresight and either holy fervor or divine fortune (because of the way I'm feated, these passives work well)
Encounters:
I always have AS and SB. Sunburst is just so useful specially when you tab and if you equip holy fervor, you can pretty much put Hallowed Ground over and over and with AS, you can just damage on your 3rd slot for fun if you've got moontouch feat.
If wearing divine fortune - Healing Word, Bastion of Health
If wearing holy fervor - Break the Spirit, Divine Glow, Forgemaster's Flame
Daily:
Hallowed ground and Divine Armor (for oops situations or if I know we're moving to the next area anyway)
At Wills:
BotS and Astral Shield (BotS is good at getting divinity specially if you have to run around)
Knowing the dungeon is key for me as it tells you when to put on what encounter. The third slot and 1 passive is the only thing I switch out. If my party thinks they can get away with NOT drinking a pot with a cleric in the group, I just educate them as they are most likely new to the game as that is not how this game works. If they are not new to the game, and even if they are very skilled but downright rude and mean to me or others in the party, then they are on my ignore list. If it turns out my entire party definitely did not drink 1 pot because of me that's just mean I should've equipped a debuff/buff encounter on my 3rd slot as that would've been more useful.
Hope that helps you answer your original post.
Very useful, thank you! I am rethinking the healer's lore/foresight thing. The trouble is that I'd have to redo my build. But I'll think on it a bit more.
rank 3 foresight is a total of 6% and benefit of foresight (5 points feated} is an additional 5%
hope this helps m8!
Yeah thanks, I havn't really read what Foresight did, tought it was just a passive for yourself. lol.
Doub't i will spec for that Feat anytime soon tho. Would have to skip a couple of Feats that i feel is crucial for PVP.
Now, viable is different from optimal, but even optimal is subjective. What's better, finishing a dungeon quickly or finishing a dungeon with no unintentional deaths? Is finishing a dungeon with no deaths always the fastest?
Now, meanseason's build is definitely viable since you see that he can complete CN with it. But is it optimal, and do you care?
If you want to know what I'm using, it's Sunburst - Astral Shield - Divine Glow (sub Healing Word for some situations), Hallowed Ground - Divine Armour, Holy Fervor (sub Divine Fortune when using HW) and feated Foresight, +Linked Spirit. And then it's about finding a party that can take advantage of my setup, or swapping around my skills to at least be able to get through the dungeon, even if it takes a few tries. I've completed CN with it so it's "viable".
I do finish in a reasonable time and the deaths aren't generally my fault (except when I make a mistake, which is not spec related obviously.) I think it's safe to say that while you can certainly save people from their own mistakes (and I often do) you aren't always able to in this game. And in any case I play with my guild, and we're very kind to each other - it's not about what's the best and only way of doing something, it's about gaming together.
So no, I honestly don't think I really care about what's optimal. I did that for 8 years in WoW and for once in my gaming life I want to have fun and play in a way that makes it fun. For me right now, I'm not concerned about how much I'm healing, only that my party stays alive (which I do!) so that we can finish all the content we attempt. And so far we've been doing that, and it's been a blast
Why do you use divine glow btw? To make things go quicker? I've considered swapping out something to provide more buffs/dps to my party for those times when they really don't need healing.
EDIT: I should probably clarify this as well -- I wanted to make sure my set up was "viable" or whatever word you want to use there because it's FUN and I wanted to be sure I wasn't totally crazy for using it.
Isn't have a nice chunk of free dmg mitigation in PVP kinda important? Especially with 100% uptime.
Well, my point was that it really doesn't matter if other people think you're crazy for using your set up if you can get through your favourite dungeons with your favourite group in a reasonable amount of time, where you and your group decide what's reasonable.
Since the ninja-buffing of bastion - it has become a mainstay in my healing mode. Also loving warding shield.
Do you really feel that healing is so difficult you have to take the same three powers? I've healed without AS, just to see how doable it was (it's quite doable), I've healed with ONLY AS, and two other offensive powers; very easy. Healing in this game IS EASY. The reason playing a cleric is fun is because being a good cleric is all about how much more damage you can contribute to the group, sometimes in the form of your own damage, often in the form of buffing group damage.
I don't know why you're so down on healing in this game, it's the most dynamic, fun, thoughtful healing I've done in any MMO I've ever played.
This means if you have a GOOD team, that are situationally aware and know how to dodge, you pretty much don't even need to be there. All astral shield does is allow them to not bother dodging while they're in the blue, and the rest of the time you can pretty much pew pew with space lazors if you want.
Conversely, if you have a BAD team, that aggro everything on the map and then stand in fire, no amount of healing is going to pull them through.
It often matters far less how good WE are than it does how good our group is. We only make a real difference if the party is 'not QUITE good enough to complete the dungeon'. If they're utterly awful then nothing will help, and if they're good enough then all we're doing is allowing lazier play.
Compare this with a game that puts emphasis on unavoidable autoattack damage: every party, no matter how good, is going to be taking damage constantly, and the success/fail chance becomes much more dependent on the healer. Healers are useful throughout the entire skill-range, rather than simply contributing to success/fail ratios of marginal cases.
It's a shame, really.