Xira's point is that if all you do is run around blowing up sub par players every day, then you really don't know what you are talking about, unless you are specifically talking about pounding on lesser geared/skilled players.
I'm far from a "pro" by any means. For that you would need to talk to Lantis or someone else. But from the replies and "guides" i've seen from some of these CWs, I could 1v1 them with Steal Time tabbed. Just sayin.
Xira's point is that if all you do is run around blowing up sub par players every day, then you really don't know what you are talking about, unless you are specifically talking about pounding on lesser geared/skilled players.
I'm far from a "pro" by any means. For that you would need to talk to Lantis or someone else. But from the replies and "guides" i've seen from some of these CWs, I could 1v1 them with Steal Time tabbed. Just sayin.
Of course you could tiger. You're a legend in your own mind.
Hahaha thank you. I was almost gonna strop reading because of all the guys fighting thnx for the cheer up!
Elvalianon, If you really want to improve your CW for PVP and PVE, I definitely would recommend keeping an eye out on twitch streams. Watching people is far more effective then trying to interpret guides. Although Neverwinter streaming is very unpopular/low, there is several of us (me included) that still do stream quite a bit. I take questions/answers all the time, on how i build, why i do things, etc. I can tell you now, following some of the advice you are being given in here, puts you on the wrong path. I am in the same boat as Xavory, I do not claim to be the best CW PVP'er, but I definitely play with and against the best every single day.
Nonsense is the gratuitous ego stroking and rhetorical gamesmanship that seems to arise in threads like this one all the time. The origin of the bickering in this thread is really quite silly when you look back on it: jawarsin (sp?) claimed that there is absolutely NO REASON for remorselord to slot Chill Strike on tab. But there are two key facts that jawarsin either willfully ignored or unintentionally glossed over: remorselord either hasn't ranked or doesn't use Icy Rays, so jawarsin's preferred alternative isn't even on the table -- and secondly, remorselord uses the PvP armor set, which reduces the cooldown on the tab slot, which means that there is a reason to place a preferred encounter power, even one that doesn't directly benefit in any normally PvP-relevant way, in the tab slot.
It's probably not a good reason, but there is a reason.
Everyone could have left it at that. Disagree if you must; feel free to state the reasons why you disagree, but the bluster about never losing to this-or-that build, the grandiose (and insincere) offer of a reward for anyone who can prove a theory wrong, the bickering about whose play style is more impressive, or who should be deemed correct-by-default based on his pro-gamer resume (in a two-month old game, no less) -- all of the above serves no purpose.
Just because we're discussing PvP, it doesn't follow that we have to play forum PvP.
Oh no, I really was sincere. But there is no scenario in which there would be an advantage. Even if you take the AOE scenario, as I previously mentionned Icy Rays is currently bugged and has an AOE itself. But if anybody wants to prove me wrong, we can just spam Icy Rays// chill strike (me icy rays, whoever else chill strike) and see who dies first. I don't think I'll loose 1 hp.
Also, believe it or not.... I'M HUMAN! I also need to sleep. Which is why I can't always be replying to everything 24/7 super quickly.
Elvalianon, If you really want to improve your CW for PVP and PVE, I definitely would recommend keeping an eye out on twitch streams. Watching people is far more effective then trying to interpret guides. Although Neverwinter streaming is very unpopular/low, there is several of us (me included) that still do stream quite a bit. I take questions/answers all the time, on how i build, why i do things, etc. I can tell you now, following some of the advice you are being given in here, puts you on the wrong path. I am in the same boat as Xavory, I do not claim to be the best CW PVP'er, but I definitely play with and against the best every single day.
Nice promotion.
I will add to that, although I don't agree with his build or the such, looking at streams can be a good idea. But the best you can do is to play PvP. You will get experience out of it every time, and you will improve in no-time if you PvP a bit.
And remember that the most important thing, is to have fun!
PS: To the person-who-keep-getting-beated-by-perma-stealth-TR-that-I-don't-remember-his-name-because-I'm-too-lazy-to-look-up I hope you realise that the PvP match-making is completely random. Saying you're playing with the best and not someone else is just utter nonsense. But since I don't want to do a full review, feel free to look up my guide. The aesthetic is currently lacking, but the perma-stealth section will tell you how I deal with those.
PS: To the person-who-keep-getting-beated-by-perma-stealth-TR-that-I-don't-remember-his-name-because-I'm-too-lazy-to-look-up I hope you realise that the PvP match-making is completely random. Saying you're playing with the best and not someone else is just utter nonsense. But since I don't want to do a full review, feel free to look up my guide. The aesthetic is currently lacking, but the perma-stealth section will tell you how I deal with those.
? I know exactly which perma TR's will kill you 100% of the time without losing any health. 1mil AD for you to prove otherwise.
And I know I play with the best and against the best, because its hands down proven. In tournaments I host, in premades we run daily against the top geared guilds on server. I am sorry buddy, but you are absolutely clueless when it comes to high level pvp. Your guide proves that.
I will add to that, although I don't agree with his build or the such, looking at streams can be a good idea. But the best you can do is to play PvP. You will get experience out of it every time, and you will improve in no-time if you PvP a bit.
And remember that the most important thing, is to have fun!
PS: To the person-who-keep-getting-beated-by-perma-stealth-TR-that-I-don't-remember-his-name-because-I'm-too-lazy-to-look-up I hope you realise that the PvP match-making is completely random. Saying you're playing with the best and not someone else is just utter nonsense. But since I don't want to do a full review, feel free to look up my guide. The aesthetic is currently lacking, but the perma-stealth section will tell you how I deal with those.
He said he plays with and against the best because his teammates are one of the top groups on the server, and they typically coordinate matches against the other top groups on the server every night. This is where the conversation is breaking down: You are talking about what you do in random pugs VS. undergeared noobs, the kind of matches where 7 of the 10 players are on 50% mounts.
Xira is talking about 5v5 with 10 top geared players who typically can destroy a geared out CW in one rotation of encounters, usually less.
"Your" build in your guide is a typical Renegade build with Snap Freeze: of course it works, its the same build more or less that CWs have been running since beta. Posting your strats is also fine, since they work for you and many of them are typical of any CW's strats. It's when you say things akin to "this way is best, debate is over, noobs", we just wanted to put it in perspective. In this case, the perspective of someone who basically just beats up on randoms most of the time. A new CW using your guide will do just fine in pugs. Beyond that, it will get more complicated.
? I know exactly which perma TR's will kill you 100% of the time without losing any health. 1mil AD for you to prove otherwise.
And I know I play with the best and against the best, because its hands down proven. In tournaments I host, in premades we run daily against the top geared guilds on server. I am sorry buddy, but you are absolutely clueless when it comes to high level pvp. Your guide proves that.
If you talk about the top geared, I won't say my whole gear except it's full T2, currently going with greater soulforged on armor etc etc. I'm definetly not the best geared, but I'm also definitely way above average.
His name+ server, if we're on the same one, I have no problem proving you wrong. I'm on Mindflayer personnaly
We are all mindflayer. Find me in game, xira@doaxira. I can arrange 1 of every class to destroy your garbage build.
Sure Sure. 1 of every class? I'm not active ennough anymore to have everybody of a different class in my friend list. Most peoples don't play as much anymore (me included actually). But I'll face your perma stealth TR if you want. I got no problem with that. Your other problem here is I respecced as a thaum because I'm also making a thaumturge build (if you don't mind me fighting your perma stealth TR with my thaum, I don't mind either).
Finnaly, If you could PM me something such as skype //ts // vent info, that would make it easier.
I've got to go, but I should be back in 3h30 roughly. Hope to meet you there.
Sure Sure. 1 of every class? I'm not active ennough anymore to have everybody of a different class in my friend list. Most peoples don't play as much anymore (me included actually). But I'll face your perma stealth TR if you want. I got no problem with that. Your other problem here is I respecced as a thaum because I'm also making a thaumturge build (if you don't mind me fighting your perma stealth TR with my thaum, I don't mind either).
Finnaly, If you could PM me something such as skype //ts // vent info, that would make it easier.
I've got to go, but I should be back in 3h30 roughly. Hope to meet you there.
No I will let you 1v1 one of every class. You will lose every 1v1. I can arrange the queue's and everything, do not worry about that. find me in game, rather not leave my vent info all over the forums. Once you message me in game we can arrange it all.
We are all mindflayer. Find me in game, xira@doaxira. I can arrange 1 of every class to destroy your garbage build.
Watched a few of your games with your team, and it became very clear to me that you are not the star that you are claiming to be. There is nothing much to say other than the fact that everyone on your team is awesome and all attention seems to be focused on them. What can go wrong when you have 2 GWF taking all the attention? This gives you the perfect freedom to play well and unleash majority of your skills.
What I noticed so far:
- Your number one killer move is Chill Strike, and it is slotted as encounter
- You pot like crazy. Not that it's that bad since everyone pots, just pointing out that your need to pot is high
- Although you have Ice Rays slotted on tab, it is your last skill to use, and you rarely even use it. (Only time you use it is when enemy at 30% or below)
- When you do use Ice Rays, it hits for garbage damage, and the "rooting" isn't as awesome as people claim. The highest non-crit I saw with Ice Rays was 1500 and about 3000 crit on a target you hit with critical (With a 16 sec cd? forget this skill)
- I did not notice any AOE aspect with this skill other than the fact that you can target 2 targets. In most cases, you targeted 1 target
- You are what I would call a leech. A person that stays on pillars, blindspots, and anywhere else while your enemy is being double teamed by 2 of your GWF's. Not much of a fair fight is it?
- You almost never venture to places without at least 1 other party member.
- You have not faced a good geared rogue solo from what I've seen. Infact the rogue that you fought several times was not Permastealth and used basic closed encounters which you successfully avoided with a dodge. In a proper case scenario, you would never survive.
- One other thing to note is that you are using Indomnable enchant on your armor, which is a huge advantage ingeneral since you are immune for 5 sec. (This is more than likely the reason for your "amazing" playstyle, and a 0 deaths record)
Your Team:
- Your are extremely well protected, so great that a few enemy teams don't even wanna play your team from the looks of it.
- Most of your games are controlled not by you but by your 2 GWF and a rogue who is very good from the looks of it.
- You also have a healer, which is a huge buff to your survivability and is the reason why you can get close enough to your enemy and set off the Ice Storm on your enemy.
Conclusion:
- When all said and done, it really isn't about you. Infact you can slot just about any power in the TAB slot and you will do just as well. Your current playstyle provides no reason to use Icy Rays, and infact favors Chill Strike more than anything as you use it immediately after Entangle Force.
- Above all, what are you trying to prove to jawarisin? You are both using Icy Rays on TAB, which was the original argument in the first place. You might be better geared and all, but I really don't care as I saw what I wanted to see.
Watched a few of your games with your team, and it became very clear to me that you are not the star that you are claiming to be. There is nothing much to say other than the fact that everyone on your team is awesome and all attention seems to be focused on them. What can go wrong when you have 2 GWF taking all the attention? This gives you the perfect freedom to play well and unleash majority of your skills.
What I noticed so far:
- Your number one killer move is Chill Strike, and it is slotted as encounter
- You pot like crazy. Not that it's that bad since everyone pots, just pointing out that your need to pot is high
- Although you have Ice Rays slotted on tab, it is your last skill to use, and you rarely even use it. (Only time you use it is when enemy at 30% or below)
- When you do use Ice Rays, it hits for garbage damage, and the "rooting" isn't as awesome as people claim. The highest non-crit I saw with Ice Rays was 1500 and about 3000 crit on a target you hit with critical (With a 16 sec cd? forget this skill)
- I did not notice any AOE aspect with this skill other than the fact that you can target 2 targets. In most cases, you targeted 1 target
- You are what I would call a leech. A person that stays on pillars, blindspots, and anywhere else while your enemy is being double teamed by 2 of your GWF's. Not much of a fair fight is it?
- You almost never venture to places without at least 1 other party member.
- You have not faced a good geared rogue solo from what I've seen. Infact the rogue that you fought several times was not Permastealth and used basic closed encounters which you successfully avoided with a dodge. In a proper case scenario, you would never survive.
- One other thing to note is that you are using Indomnable enchant on your armor, which is a huge advantage ingeneral since you are immune for 5 sec. (This is more than likely the reason for your "amazing" playstyle, and a 0 deaths record)
Your Team:
- Your are extremely well protected, so great that a few enemy teams don't even wanna play your team from the looks of it.
- Most of your games are controlled not by you but by your 2 GWF and a rogue who is very good from the looks of it.
- You also have a healer, which is a huge buff to your survivability and is the reason why you can get close enough to your enemy and set off the Ice Storm on your enemy.
Conclusion:
- When all said and done, it really isn't about you. Infact you can slot just about any power in the TAB slot and you will do just as well. Your current playstyle provides no reason to use Icy Rays, and infact favors Chill Strike more than anything as you use it immediately after Entangle Force.
- Above all, what are you trying to prove to jawarisin? You are both using Icy Rays on TAB, which was the original argument in the first place. You might be better geared and all, but I really don't care as I saw what I wanted to see.
lol.... What a pile of fail observations. My Icy Ray hits 10K+ all day long. Combat log shows chill strike is not my #1 by far. Many times i swap out chill strike for ROE. We run all sorts of group comps. When were just going vs pug, we fool around all day long. Get some friends together sweety, and lets dance.
Keep dreaming buddy. The only thing I've seen you hit over 10k was Ice Knife, which was for 14k.
lmfao i am best in slot with perf vorp. Ice knife hits for 20-30K on avg on crit. Anyone who has any sense of numbers will know this. Keep making **** up.
edit: On further review of my logs, 12K ice knife did happen, average was 21K, with a 28K max hit. Makes a big diff what class/gear I am puting the ice knife into of course. (talking crits)
Avg Icy ray was 6K, 2K min, with 12K max. As for the "root", we only 2 roots that can hold someone in place long enough to guarantee ice knife hit. Entangle is one, and Icy is the other, it is an extremely valuable skill for CW. Doing damage is not our problem, i do huge amounts of damage, it is all about keeping people off of us and thus i personally find icy of value. But I do not always run with it. In serious mode sometimes it is ROE on tab depending on my role and the situation.
CW has a few key roles in high level pvp:
-Don't get caught because we are squishy as hell.
-Debuff, chain cc, and help aassasinate targets
-Help offset fights by using number advantage to take nodes
You call it being a "leech". If you think CW's role is to charge in and face-roll everyone from the main fight, you are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. And of course when i do charge in, its only with a DC backing me up so i can get the ice storm off. Between astral shield, and 3 dodges, a CW should be able to stay alive in a pack as long as there is a good DC sidekick. If there is not, running into a pack (especially one that is going to focus the CW if they have any skill at all), is not only pointless, its downright stupid.
You said and I quote "A person that stays on pillars, blindspots, and anywhere else". You should be able to say this about any above average CW.
Additional info:
-The mindflayer tournament, and therefore most practicing premades right now consist of 1 of every class. Having 2 GWF's in a group is not the norm.
-If there ever is a true perma stealth TR in the match, I avoid the area entirely, as I am completely worthless against it, unless there is multiple of us. So not sure what your talking about me not facing a perma TR. ofc I didnt, nor would I.
As for the differences I have with "jawarisin".
No CW should ever be in pvp without repel.
Storm Pillar as 2nd ability is troll. Ray of Frost is an absolute must.
And pretty much 1/2 the strats in his guide, and especially around perma Tr's, are so completely wrong I do not know where to even begin.
If you talk about the top geared, I won't say my whole gear except it's full T2, currently going with greater soulforged on armor etc etc. I'm definetly not the best geared, but I'm also definitely way above average.
His name+ server, if we're on the same one, I have no problem proving you wrong. I'm on Mindflayer personnaly
add me: Tiduss@xpertzxx / on mindflayer. Should we wager 1mill AD on this 1v1 duel?
I could even get some people to stream this for all the people that you're giving all these 'awesome' advices on how to beat perma-stealth rogues. Your CW vs my Perma TR. Sounds good?
Wtf is a Molon Labe?
- Tiduss -
(OoS)
0
remorselordMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 102Arc User
lmfao i am best in slot with perf vorp. Ice knife hits for 20-30K on avg on crit. Anyone who has any sense of numbers will know this. Keep making **** up.
I stayed for the majority of your stream, and have not seen any numbers go beyond 14k visually to say the least. I am not trying to disprove that you are hitting for 20-99k. That is not the point, and honestly I don't care if you are best in slot or not. I do not do competitive PVP as I prefer to play normal PVP, and enjoy PVE content. However, if I was to play competitively, yes some of your techniques are useful and to be noted. But unlike permastealth rogues and CW's that hide away from the enemy, I prefer to have a decent battle with an enemy. At the end of the day it's not about your kill count, but more about the fun and challenges you had at any given time that you play. This is my personal preference and how I wish to play. I am not judging your playstyle, but only observing and trying to understand why you favor certain skills over others, which might I add was the original argument in the first place.
Last time I used Icy Rays was before the server went live. I didn't like it at the time and surely don't see a huge advantage right now other than the fact that you get extra 0.5 sec if you tab it. I might have missed that, or it might have been there I just didn't notice it. Still, watching you play does not display any concrete evidence that it's useful.
I do appreciate your explanation, and maybe I might try it again in the next patch.
add me: Tiduss@xpertzxx / on mindflayer. Should we wager 1mill AD on this 1v1 duel?
I could even get some people to stream this for all the people that you're giving all these 'awesome' advices on how to beat perma-stealth rogues. Your CW vs my Perma TR. Sounds good?
lmfao i am best in slot with perf vorp. Ice knife hits for 20-30K on avg on crit. Anyone who has any sense of numbers will know this. Keep making **** up.
edit: On further review of my logs, 12K ice knife did happen, average was 21K, with a 28K max hit. Makes a big diff what class/gear I am puting the ice knife into of course. (talking crits)
Avg Icy ray was 6K, 2K min, with 12K max. As for the "root", we only 2 roots that can hold someone in place long enough to guarantee ice knife hit. Entangle is one, and Icy is the other, it is an extremely valuable skill for CW. Doing damage is not our problem, i do huge amounts of damage, it is all about keeping people off of us and thus i personally find icy of value. But I do not always run with it. In serious mode sometimes it is ROE on tab depending on my role and the situation.
CW has a few key roles in high level pvp:
-Don't get caught because we are squishy as hell.
-Debuff, chain cc, and help aassasinate targets
-Help offset fights by using number advantage to take nodes
You call it being a "leech". If you think CW's role is to charge in and face-roll everyone from the main fight, you are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. And of course when i do charge in, its only with a DC backing me up so i can get the ice storm off. Between astral shield, and 3 dodges, a CW should be able to stay alive in a pack as long as there is a good DC sidekick. If there is not, running into a pack (especially one that is going to focus the CW if they have any skill at all), is not only pointless, its downright stupid.
You said and I quote "A person that stays on pillars, blindspots, and anywhere else". You should be able to say this about any above average CW.
Additional info:
-The mindflayer tournament, and therefore most practicing premades right now consist of 1 of every class. Having 2 GWF's in a group is not the norm.
-If there ever is a true perma stealth TR in the match, I avoid the area entirely, as I am completely worthless against it, unless there is multiple of us. So not sure what your talking about me not facing a perma TR. ofc I didnt, nor would I.
As for the differences I have with "jawarisin".
No CW should ever be in pvp without repel.
Storm Pillar as 2nd ability is troll. Ray of Frost is an absolute must.
And pretty much 1/2 the strats in his guide, and especially around perma Tr's, are so completely wrong I do not know where to even begin.
Ok, you know what, all you see to do is talk trash. Other than the fact that I don't agree with you on a build, you come around insulting everybody when peoples in your stream just posted they haven't seen you hit higher than 10k. You big head it and trash-talk a guide which you have not even read.
You claim to have read my guide, but let's face facts: You posted at 1:58, and trash talked. You came back and posted at 2:14 and trash talked again. Let's consider a 1-2 minute time for you to write and post your post because you didn't think much of it. That means you read my guide which is roughly 8500 words (34 pages of an average book) in less than 14 minutes.
Thanks for the realistic figure. All you've been doing is trash-talked with no actual base beneath anything you just said. I'm done talking with the kind of you.
add me: Tiduss@xpertzxx / on mindflayer. Should we wager 1mill AD on this 1v1 duel?
I could even get some people to stream this for all the people that you're giving all these 'awesome' advices on how to beat perma-stealth rogues. Your CW vs my Perma TR. Sounds good?
Sadly, I do not wager bets I do not know I will win 100%. Although I have no problem dueling you and being streamed, provided you let me a little 2 hours before to pvp a little bit. As mentioned before, I didn't play much, having reached end game quite quickly I ended up being bored after a while.
Otherwise, I have no problem duelling you for as long as you wish. As mentioned before though, I am currently specced as a Thaumaturge since I was working on a build for that last. If you don't mind.
I've will send you my contact info right after I'm done posting this post, add me up.
I stayed for the majority of your stream, and have not seen any numbers go beyond 14k visually to say the least. I am not trying to disprove that you are hitting for 20-99k. That is not the point, and honestly I don't care if you are best in slot or not. I do not do competitive PVP as I prefer to play normal PVP, and enjoy PVE content. However, if I was to play competitively, yes some of your techniques are useful and to be noted. But unlike permastealth rogues and CW's that hide away from the enemy, I prefer to have a decent battle with an enemy. At the end of the day it's not about your kill count, but more about the fun and challenges you had at any given time that you play. This is my personal preference and how I wish to play. I am not judging your playstyle, but only observing and trying to understand why you favor certain skills over others, which might I add was the original argument in the first place.
Last time I used Icy Rays was before the server went live. I didn't like it at the time and surely don't see a huge advantage right now other than the fact that you get extra 0.5 sec if you tab it. I might have missed that, or it might have been there I just didn't notice it. Still, watching you play does not display any concrete evidence that it's useful.
I do appreciate your explanation, and maybe I might try it again in the next patch.
If this match happens, I wanna see the stream. xD
The fact that you said Xira is not a star because he's always hiding while the enemy is focused on his teammates proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you haven't the slightest clue how non-scrub vs scrub PvP works. The teams they slaughter are full of CWs who want to "prefer a decent battle with the enemy" and get drilled. You know how you can tell if a CW is good in an ACTUAL 5v5 match? If his team wins. Controlling points and debuffing/CCing hard targets is just as important as those almighty KB's in real PvP. Thats what he does, and thats why it probably looks strange to you.
You claim to have read my guide, but let's face facts: You posted at 1:58, and trash talked. You came back and posted at 2:14 and trash talked again. Let's consider a 1-2 minute time for you to write and post your post because you didn't think much of it. That means you read my guide which is roughly 8500 words (34 pages of an average book) in less than 14 minutes.
Glad you broke out the stopwatch, but I was told about your guide by a friend in game earlier, and had read it, I am always interested in perspectives. I hadn't bothered polluting your thread telling you how bad most of the information was out of respect for the thread. However, when I then see you in other threads, making completely ridiculous and false points, I could not resist anymore. Sorry man.
Send me a tell or friend request anytime in game. Can get you on vent and have some fun, does not have to be a wager if you do not want. You were the one dead set that you stood a chance against a perma stealth TR. Thought you were willing to put your money where your mouth was, considering you basically doing the same to the guy on chill strike argument.
Glad you broke out the stopwatch, but I was told about your guide by a friend in game earlier, and had read it, I am always interested in perspectives. I hadn't bothered polluting your thread telling you how bad most of the information was out of respect for the thread. However, when I then see you in other threads, making completely ridiculous and false points, I could not resist anymore. Sorry man.
Send me a tell or friend request anytime in game. Can get you on vent and have some fun, does not have to be a wager if you do not want. You were the one dead set that you stood a chance against a perma stealth TR. Thought you were willing to put your money where your mouth was, considering you basically doing the same to the guy on chill strike argument.
That's the same reason I'm not going polluting anybody else's build, and it's always appreciated.
I'm pretty sure i can beat a Perma-Stealthed TR most of the time. I'm not perfect, so I will loose sometimes that's why I wont wager on that. And I'm dead set I stand a chance and more than a chance against a perma-stealth TR too.
I knew I was right on the chill strike argument. It's basically like making a wager that the earth won't stop moving in space tomorrow. I know I won't loose. Anyways, If you want to talk to me, pm me the info.
hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited August 2013
Dodge--Practice this, sometimes I can dodge all day if I have enough space.
Repel--I would love not to carry it, but it has far too many uses for Domination PvP--beyond getting an enemy off me for a second or two...I can push a solo player off base so they don't get the capture, or often times if I am engaged with an enemy mob and see a team mate struggling, I will use Repel to get the player off him real quick.
Shield--I personally don't use in pvp--I usually run Icy Ray Tab, R.O.E ( sometimes I tab this instead), Choke, and Repel ( sometimes chill strike.) Sometimes Icy Terran to fish out stealth rogues.
I can't imagine not using Ray of Frost to wear down BLOCK and slow them down
Gaunt--my strategy is to delay and disrupt other team, not to get kills...so I fool around with a lot of AOE stuff, i recently put Repel on tab a few matches and had a lot of fun, but if it is a match where our team is winning by 1000 then I never really see other team together enough to use it and go back to my standard PvP set up.
I don't care about dying as long as my team wins, and often times will bait--people get so bloodlusty that they will all leave a contested base to chase after a CW or DC, and if my team stays on the base they win.
P.S. 110 Mount for backcapping or getting to strategic spot quick to help your team.
Dodge--Practice this, sometimes I can dodge all day if I have enough space.
Repel--I would love not to carry it, but it has far too many uses for Domination PvP--beyond getting an enemy off me for a second or two...I can push a solo player off base so they don't get the capture, or often times if I am engaged with an enemy mob and see a team mate struggling, I will use Repel to get the player off him real quick.
Shield--I personally don't use in pvp--I usually run Icy Ray Tab, R.O.E ( sometimes I tab this instead), Choke, and Repel ( sometimes chill strike.) Sometimes Icy Terran to fish out stealth rogues.
I can't imagine not using Ray of Frost to wear down BLOCK and slow them down
Gaunt--my strategy is to delay and disrupt other team, not to get kills...so I fool around with a lot of AOE stuff, i recently put Repel on tab a few matches and had a lot of fun, but if it is a match where our team is winning by 1000 then I never really see other team together enough to use it and go back to my standard PvP set up.
I don't care about dying as long as my team wins, and often times will bait--people get so bloodlusty that they will all leave a contested base to chase after a CW or DC, and if my team stays on the base they win.
P.S. 110 Mount for backcapping or getting to strategic spot quick to help your team.
I v got a question: how to use Icy Rays effectivly? It seems to me a little bit slowish to cast and has low damage and CC potential...
Since it needs to mark the first target try this: Cast ICy ray to mark > use another spell quickly like ROE > then cast icy ray again to release> follow with another spell.
Elvalianon, If you really want to improve your CW for PVP and PVE, I definitely would recommend keeping an eye out on twitch streams. Watching people is far more effective then trying to interpret guides. Although Neverwinter streaming is very unpopular/low, there is several of us (me included) that still do stream quite a bit. I take questions/answers all the time, on how i build, why i do things, etc. I can tell you now, following some of the advice you are being given in here, puts you on the wrong path. I am in the same boat as Xavory, I do not claim to be the best CW PVP'er, but I definitely play with and against the best every single day.
Hmm ok thnx for ur advice. I am not following the guides that are given to me. Since I want to do it my way, it is my character and I play how I like to play. I only read, take what seems usefull and might apply that in game :P
All I've done so fare is buy new gear, changed my tab power to ice shards which indeed seems to help against TR's to put them out of stealth (at least I thought I read that somewhere on this thread) if I'm wrong about that at least it does a fine amount of damage and stuns for a while. Further on I did not change much else
Everyone has a different play style and the people that try to force you to do it their way... well I appreciate their advice but further on I do not really give a **** (A)
Dodge--Practice this, sometimes I can dodge all day if I have enough space.
Repel--I would love not to carry it, but it has far too many uses for Domination PvP--beyond getting an enemy off me for a second or two...I can push a solo player off base so they don't get the capture, or often times if I am engaged with an enemy mob and see a team mate struggling, I will use Repel to get the player off him real quick.
Shield--I personally don't use in pvp--I usually run Icy Ray Tab, R.O.E ( sometimes I tab this instead), Choke, and Repel ( sometimes chill strike.) Sometimes Icy Terran to fish out stealth rogues.
I can't imagine not using Ray of Frost to wear down BLOCK and slow them down
Gaunt--my strategy is to delay and disrupt other team, not to get kills...so I fool around with a lot of AOE stuff, i recently put Repel on tab a few matches and had a lot of fun, but if it is a match where our team is winning by 1000 then I never really see other team together enough to use it and go back to my standard PvP set up.
I don't care about dying as long as my team wins, and often times will bait--people get so bloodlusty that they will all leave a contested base to chase after a CW or DC, and if my team stays on the base they win.
P.S. 110 Mount for backcapping or getting to strategic spot quick to help your team.
You are right I don't really care if I die sometimes, although it is super annoying if you're targeted a lot and just be killed off every minute.
It is all about the fun of the game and working together, I realized that and it really bugs me when every one is going egocentric and are running around all over the place, not helping or reviving others, even if they lie dying near their feet and they got all the time! But yeah, that's the game I guess and I'm probably also not always the best team mate.
I used shield on my previous character, but I like repel more, although I'm not using it right now and don't really seem to miss it either. What is "Gaunt" if I may ask?
Comments
I'm far from a "pro" by any means. For that you would need to talk to Lantis or someone else. But from the replies and "guides" i've seen from some of these CWs, I could 1v1 them with Steal Time tabbed. Just sayin.
Hahaha thank you. I was almost gonna strop reading because of all the guys fighting
Of course you could tiger. You're a legend in your own mind.
Elvalianon, If you really want to improve your CW for PVP and PVE, I definitely would recommend keeping an eye out on twitch streams. Watching people is far more effective then trying to interpret guides. Although Neverwinter streaming is very unpopular/low, there is several of us (me included) that still do stream quite a bit. I take questions/answers all the time, on how i build, why i do things, etc. I can tell you now, following some of the advice you are being given in here, puts you on the wrong path. I am in the same boat as Xavory, I do not claim to be the best CW PVP'er, but I definitely play with and against the best every single day.
Oh no, I really was sincere. But there is no scenario in which there would be an advantage. Even if you take the AOE scenario, as I previously mentionned Icy Rays is currently bugged and has an AOE itself. But if anybody wants to prove me wrong, we can just spam Icy Rays// chill strike (me icy rays, whoever else chill strike) and see who dies first. I don't think I'll loose 1 hp.
Also, believe it or not.... I'M HUMAN! I also need to sleep. Which is why I can't always be replying to everything 24/7 super quickly.
Nice promotion.
I will add to that, although I don't agree with his build or the such, looking at streams can be a good idea. But the best you can do is to play PvP. You will get experience out of it every time, and you will improve in no-time if you PvP a bit.
And remember that the most important thing, is to have fun!
PS: To the person-who-keep-getting-beated-by-perma-stealth-TR-that-I-don't-remember-his-name-because-I'm-too-lazy-to-look-up I hope you realise that the PvP match-making is completely random. Saying you're playing with the best and not someone else is just utter nonsense. But since I don't want to do a full review, feel free to look up my guide. The aesthetic is currently lacking, but the perma-stealth section will tell you how I deal with those.
Here for the build+guide
? I know exactly which perma TR's will kill you 100% of the time without losing any health. 1mil AD for you to prove otherwise.
And I know I play with the best and against the best, because its hands down proven. In tournaments I host, in premades we run daily against the top geared guilds on server. I am sorry buddy, but you are absolutely clueless when it comes to high level pvp. Your guide proves that.
He said he plays with and against the best because his teammates are one of the top groups on the server, and they typically coordinate matches against the other top groups on the server every night. This is where the conversation is breaking down: You are talking about what you do in random pugs VS. undergeared noobs, the kind of matches where 7 of the 10 players are on 50% mounts.
Xira is talking about 5v5 with 10 top geared players who typically can destroy a geared out CW in one rotation of encounters, usually less.
"Your" build in your guide is a typical Renegade build with Snap Freeze: of course it works, its the same build more or less that CWs have been running since beta. Posting your strats is also fine, since they work for you and many of them are typical of any CW's strats. It's when you say things akin to "this way is best, debate is over, noobs", we just wanted to put it in perspective. In this case, the perspective of someone who basically just beats up on randoms most of the time. A new CW using your guide will do just fine in pugs. Beyond that, it will get more complicated.
If you talk about the top geared, I won't say my whole gear except it's full T2, currently going with greater soulforged on armor etc etc. I'm definetly not the best geared, but I'm also definitely way above average.
His name+ server, if we're on the same one, I have no problem proving you wrong. I'm on Mindflayer personnaly
Here for the build+guide
We are all mindflayer. Find me in game, xira@doaxira. I can arrange 1 of every class to destroy your garbage build.
Sure Sure. 1 of every class? I'm not active ennough anymore to have everybody of a different class in my friend list. Most peoples don't play as much anymore (me included actually). But I'll face your perma stealth TR if you want. I got no problem with that. Your other problem here is I respecced as a thaum because I'm also making a thaumturge build (if you don't mind me fighting your perma stealth TR with my thaum, I don't mind either).
Finnaly, If you could PM me something such as skype //ts // vent info, that would make it easier.
I've got to go, but I should be back in 3h30 roughly. Hope to meet you there.
Here for the build+guide
No I will let you 1v1 one of every class. You will lose every 1v1. I can arrange the queue's and everything, do not worry about that. find me in game, rather not leave my vent info all over the forums. Once you message me in game we can arrange it all.
Oh my....
Watched a few of your games with your team, and it became very clear to me that you are not the star that you are claiming to be. There is nothing much to say other than the fact that everyone on your team is awesome and all attention seems to be focused on them. What can go wrong when you have 2 GWF taking all the attention? This gives you the perfect freedom to play well and unleash majority of your skills.
What I noticed so far:
- Your number one killer move is Chill Strike, and it is slotted as encounter
- You pot like crazy. Not that it's that bad since everyone pots, just pointing out that your need to pot is high
- Although you have Ice Rays slotted on tab, it is your last skill to use, and you rarely even use it. (Only time you use it is when enemy at 30% or below)
- When you do use Ice Rays, it hits for garbage damage, and the "rooting" isn't as awesome as people claim. The highest non-crit I saw with Ice Rays was 1500 and about 3000 crit on a target you hit with critical (With a 16 sec cd? forget this skill)
- I did not notice any AOE aspect with this skill other than the fact that you can target 2 targets. In most cases, you targeted 1 target
- You are what I would call a leech. A person that stays on pillars, blindspots, and anywhere else while your enemy is being double teamed by 2 of your GWF's. Not much of a fair fight is it?
- You almost never venture to places without at least 1 other party member.
- You have not faced a good geared rogue solo from what I've seen. Infact the rogue that you fought several times was not Permastealth and used basic closed encounters which you successfully avoided with a dodge. In a proper case scenario, you would never survive.
- One other thing to note is that you are using Indomnable enchant on your armor, which is a huge advantage ingeneral since you are immune for 5 sec. (This is more than likely the reason for your "amazing" playstyle, and a 0 deaths record)
Your Team:
- Your are extremely well protected, so great that a few enemy teams don't even wanna play your team from the looks of it.
- Most of your games are controlled not by you but by your 2 GWF and a rogue who is very good from the looks of it.
- You also have a healer, which is a huge buff to your survivability and is the reason why you can get close enough to your enemy and set off the Ice Storm on your enemy.
Conclusion:
- When all said and done, it really isn't about you. Infact you can slot just about any power in the TAB slot and you will do just as well. Your current playstyle provides no reason to use Icy Rays, and infact favors Chill Strike more than anything as you use it immediately after Entangle Force.
- Above all, what are you trying to prove to jawarisin? You are both using Icy Rays on TAB, which was the original argument in the first place. You might be better geared and all, but I really don't care as I saw what I wanted to see.
Video Review: http://www.twitch.tv/zovya/c/2671017
lol.... What a pile of fail observations. My Icy Ray hits 10K+ all day long. Combat log shows chill strike is not my #1 by far. Many times i swap out chill strike for ROE. We run all sorts of group comps. When were just going vs pug, we fool around all day long. Get some friends together sweety, and lets dance.
Video Review: http://www.twitch.tv/zovya/c/2671017
lmfao i am best in slot with perf vorp. Ice knife hits for 20-30K on avg on crit. Anyone who has any sense of numbers will know this. Keep making **** up.
edit: On further review of my logs, 12K ice knife did happen, average was 21K, with a 28K max hit. Makes a big diff what class/gear I am puting the ice knife into of course. (talking crits)
Avg Icy ray was 6K, 2K min, with 12K max. As for the "root", we only 2 roots that can hold someone in place long enough to guarantee ice knife hit. Entangle is one, and Icy is the other, it is an extremely valuable skill for CW. Doing damage is not our problem, i do huge amounts of damage, it is all about keeping people off of us and thus i personally find icy of value. But I do not always run with it. In serious mode sometimes it is ROE on tab depending on my role and the situation.
CW has a few key roles in high level pvp:
-Don't get caught because we are squishy as hell.
-Debuff, chain cc, and help aassasinate targets
-Help offset fights by using number advantage to take nodes
You call it being a "leech". If you think CW's role is to charge in and face-roll everyone from the main fight, you are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. And of course when i do charge in, its only with a DC backing me up so i can get the ice storm off. Between astral shield, and 3 dodges, a CW should be able to stay alive in a pack as long as there is a good DC sidekick. If there is not, running into a pack (especially one that is going to focus the CW if they have any skill at all), is not only pointless, its downright stupid.
You said and I quote "A person that stays on pillars, blindspots, and anywhere else". You should be able to say this about any above average CW.
Additional info:
-The mindflayer tournament, and therefore most practicing premades right now consist of 1 of every class. Having 2 GWF's in a group is not the norm.
-If there ever is a true perma stealth TR in the match, I avoid the area entirely, as I am completely worthless against it, unless there is multiple of us. So not sure what your talking about me not facing a perma TR. ofc I didnt, nor would I.
As for the differences I have with "jawarisin".
No CW should ever be in pvp without repel.
Storm Pillar as 2nd ability is troll. Ray of Frost is an absolute must.
And pretty much 1/2 the strats in his guide, and especially around perma Tr's, are so completely wrong I do not know where to even begin.
add me: Tiduss@xpertzxx / on mindflayer. Should we wager 1mill AD on this 1v1 duel?
I could even get some people to stream this for all the people that you're giving all these 'awesome' advices on how to beat perma-stealth rogues. Your CW vs my Perma TR. Sounds good?
- Tiduss -
(OoS)
I stayed for the majority of your stream, and have not seen any numbers go beyond 14k visually to say the least. I am not trying to disprove that you are hitting for 20-99k. That is not the point, and honestly I don't care if you are best in slot or not. I do not do competitive PVP as I prefer to play normal PVP, and enjoy PVE content. However, if I was to play competitively, yes some of your techniques are useful and to be noted. But unlike permastealth rogues and CW's that hide away from the enemy, I prefer to have a decent battle with an enemy. At the end of the day it's not about your kill count, but more about the fun and challenges you had at any given time that you play. This is my personal preference and how I wish to play. I am not judging your playstyle, but only observing and trying to understand why you favor certain skills over others, which might I add was the original argument in the first place.
Last time I used Icy Rays was before the server went live. I didn't like it at the time and surely don't see a huge advantage right now other than the fact that you get extra 0.5 sec if you tab it. I might have missed that, or it might have been there I just didn't notice it. Still, watching you play does not display any concrete evidence that it's useful.
I do appreciate your explanation, and maybe I might try it again in the next patch.
If this match happens, I wanna see the stream. xD
Video Review: http://www.twitch.tv/zovya/c/2671017
Ok, you know what, all you see to do is talk trash. Other than the fact that I don't agree with you on a build, you come around insulting everybody when peoples in your stream just posted they haven't seen you hit higher than 10k. You big head it and trash-talk a guide which you have not even read.
You claim to have read my guide, but let's face facts: You posted at 1:58, and trash talked. You came back and posted at 2:14 and trash talked again. Let's consider a 1-2 minute time for you to write and post your post because you didn't think much of it. That means you read my guide which is roughly 8500 words (34 pages of an average book) in less than 14 minutes.
Thanks for the realistic figure. All you've been doing is trash-talked with no actual base beneath anything you just said. I'm done talking with the kind of you.
Sadly, I do not wager bets I do not know I will win 100%. Although I have no problem dueling you and being streamed, provided you let me a little 2 hours before to pvp a little bit. As mentioned before, I didn't play much, having reached end game quite quickly I ended up being bored after a while.
Otherwise, I have no problem duelling you for as long as you wish. As mentioned before though, I am currently specced as a Thaumaturge since I was working on a build for that last. If you don't mind.
I've will send you my contact info right after I'm done posting this post, add me up.
Here for the build+guide
The fact that you said Xira is not a star because he's always hiding while the enemy is focused on his teammates proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you haven't the slightest clue how non-scrub vs scrub PvP works. The teams they slaughter are full of CWs who want to "prefer a decent battle with the enemy" and get drilled. You know how you can tell if a CW is good in an ACTUAL 5v5 match? If his team wins. Controlling points and debuffing/CCing hard targets is just as important as those almighty KB's in real PvP. Thats what he does, and thats why it probably looks strange to you.
Glad you broke out the stopwatch, but I was told about your guide by a friend in game earlier, and had read it, I am always interested in perspectives. I hadn't bothered polluting your thread telling you how bad most of the information was out of respect for the thread. However, when I then see you in other threads, making completely ridiculous and false points, I could not resist anymore. Sorry man.
Send me a tell or friend request anytime in game. Can get you on vent and have some fun, does not have to be a wager if you do not want. You were the one dead set that you stood a chance against a perma stealth TR. Thought you were willing to put your money where your mouth was, considering you basically doing the same to the guy on chill strike argument.
This is the most true piece of advice in this thread. Aside from that this thread has been very amusing
That's the same reason I'm not going polluting anybody else's build, and it's always appreciated.
I'm pretty sure i can beat a Perma-Stealthed TR most of the time. I'm not perfect, so I will loose sometimes that's why I wont wager on that. And I'm dead set I stand a chance and more than a chance against a perma-stealth TR too.
I knew I was right on the chill strike argument. It's basically like making a wager that the earth won't stop moving in space tomorrow. I know I won't loose. Anyways, If you want to talk to me, pm me the info.
I indeed think so too, even as one of the actors!
Here for the build+guide
Repel--I would love not to carry it, but it has far too many uses for Domination PvP--beyond getting an enemy off me for a second or two...I can push a solo player off base so they don't get the capture, or often times if I am engaged with an enemy mob and see a team mate struggling, I will use Repel to get the player off him real quick.
Shield--I personally don't use in pvp--I usually run Icy Ray Tab, R.O.E ( sometimes I tab this instead), Choke, and Repel ( sometimes chill strike.) Sometimes Icy Terran to fish out stealth rogues.
I can't imagine not using Ray of Frost to wear down BLOCK and slow them down
Gaunt--my strategy is to delay and disrupt other team, not to get kills...so I fool around with a lot of AOE stuff, i recently put Repel on tab a few matches and had a lot of fun, but if it is a match where our team is winning by 1000 then I never really see other team together enough to use it and go back to my standard PvP set up.
I don't care about dying as long as my team wins, and often times will bait--people get so bloodlusty that they will all leave a contested base to chase after a CW or DC, and if my team stays on the base they win.
P.S. 110 Mount for backcapping or getting to strategic spot quick to help your team.
THIS is advice worth following.
Since it needs to mark the first target try this: Cast ICy ray to mark > use another spell quickly like ROE > then cast icy ray again to release> follow with another spell.
Hmm ok
All I've done so fare is buy new gear, changed my tab power to ice shards which indeed seems to help against TR's to put them out of stealth
Everyone has a different play style and the people that try to force you to do it their way... well I appreciate their advice but further on I do not really give a **** (A)
You are right
It is all about the fun of the game and working together, I realized that and it really bugs me when every one is going egocentric and are running around all over the place, not helping or reviving others, even if they lie dying near their feet and they got all the time! But yeah, that's the game I guess
I used shield on my previous character, but I like repel more, although I'm not using it right now and don't really seem to miss it either. What is "Gaunt" if I may ask?
Ahh ok