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The PvP itemization that worked for me
sogronnwo
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 96
Howdy!
PvP itemization for me went like this:
- dinged 60, bought T1 off AH, got steamrolled in PvP
- endured steamroll and got glory PvP gear, still got steamrolled, since Life steal is a joke on healer (main role?) DC
- farmed max power T2 and T2,5 weapons (12,6k GS) to max hps and dmg output, got steamrolled
- farmed Miracle Healer set to max burst healing, still got steamrolled
- looked at GG PvP gear, saw it had life steal too, got fed up
I guess it's pretty similar to everyone's experience up to this point.
- so I rolled a GWF to see what the Sentinel craze was all about, dinged 60, bought 2*T1 and 2*T2 tank gear with regen accessories, and slotted rank 6 enchants (NO Tenebs) and ruled like the kings of old in PuG PvP, even held my ground against premades until 3+ members coordinated against me or someone with Tenebs showed up.
- had a feeling that regen had to do more with the survivability than deflect, since my DC has a lot of heals and damage reductions to fill the shoes of 50% deflect chance.
- went back to my cleric, bought blue regen gear, rerolled charisma to constitution and enchanted HP instead of defense. The result is a 29k HP, 2,2k defense, 1600 regen DC with HAMSTER crit and recovery but still somewhat of a nice power due to ancient weapon set with power enchants (no meaningful main and offhand with regen out there). NO Tenebs on this character either, but it does have rank 7 enchants instead of 6s.
NOW WE'RE TALKING! I mean it's still not a Sent GWF but my God this is fun! I can actually survive stuff, I don't get 1shotted by most Lashing Blades (I even saw some TRs baffled when they hit me with the usual 24k+ and I still walked, they went around a circle before they realised they have to engage me further, so much fun
), and I can survive the CC train of the other classes, sometimes from even more than 1 of them. 2 coordinated guys or 1 top-geared PvE damage dealer still hands my Axx to me, but they at least do it over a longer period of time instead of the 2-3 seconds I was used to. I could actually 1v1 some people as a healer, WOOOO! That's a first!
If only I knew from the beginning to skip PvP gear or 12,6k PvE gear, and go straight for 60 blue gear with regen!
I'd like to achieve 2 things with this post.
First thing is to warn other DCs. If you're a fresh 60 DC, or a 60 DC with any gear that struggles in PuG PvP, never mind any purples other than weapon and shirts/pants, just go to the AH and buy the blue regen gear on any slot you can for 300-500 AD a piece. Nope, I didn't miss the "k" from there, they are hundreds of AD, not hundreds of thousands. The best in slot PvP gear for a DC is buyable off the AH for pennies. Go and get it guys, it's dirt cheap to try and it pays back in your first PvP match (provided it's not against a premade) with some long overdue success!
Second thing is, if this reaches any developer, please change the lifesteal on the PvP sets to regen (or add a set that has it), and make accessories for PvP so we can have purple regen jewelry too.
It feels really silly that I have to equip these blues because they are better for PvP than any purple available for the DC in the game.
Well, either this, or balance damage on Dominion maps so regen and HP aren't the only viable PvP stats...
Thanks for reading!
P.S.: Sry if this all have been mentioned before, sry for my english and sry for the wall of text, I'm just so pumped!
*Edit:
Here are some screenshots on how it looks like for me - keep in mind that it's all low budget and I didn't roll a fresh character to min-max this spec, so ability rolls and race isn't the best.
Ability scores are with camp buff, and the gear and action bar is set to what I use in PvP:
Stats from Power to Regen:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_01.jpg
Stats from Movement to AP Gain:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_02.jpg
Defensive stats:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_03.jpg
Feats:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_04.jpg
PvP itemization for me went like this:
- dinged 60, bought T1 off AH, got steamrolled in PvP
- endured steamroll and got glory PvP gear, still got steamrolled, since Life steal is a joke on healer (main role?) DC
- farmed max power T2 and T2,5 weapons (12,6k GS) to max hps and dmg output, got steamrolled
- farmed Miracle Healer set to max burst healing, still got steamrolled
- looked at GG PvP gear, saw it had life steal too, got fed up
I guess it's pretty similar to everyone's experience up to this point.
- so I rolled a GWF to see what the Sentinel craze was all about, dinged 60, bought 2*T1 and 2*T2 tank gear with regen accessories, and slotted rank 6 enchants (NO Tenebs) and ruled like the kings of old in PuG PvP, even held my ground against premades until 3+ members coordinated against me or someone with Tenebs showed up.
- had a feeling that regen had to do more with the survivability than deflect, since my DC has a lot of heals and damage reductions to fill the shoes of 50% deflect chance.
- went back to my cleric, bought blue regen gear, rerolled charisma to constitution and enchanted HP instead of defense. The result is a 29k HP, 2,2k defense, 1600 regen DC with HAMSTER crit and recovery but still somewhat of a nice power due to ancient weapon set with power enchants (no meaningful main and offhand with regen out there). NO Tenebs on this character either, but it does have rank 7 enchants instead of 6s.
NOW WE'RE TALKING! I mean it's still not a Sent GWF but my God this is fun! I can actually survive stuff, I don't get 1shotted by most Lashing Blades (I even saw some TRs baffled when they hit me with the usual 24k+ and I still walked, they went around a circle before they realised they have to engage me further, so much fun
), and I can survive the CC train of the other classes, sometimes from even more than 1 of them. 2 coordinated guys or 1 top-geared PvE damage dealer still hands my Axx to me, but they at least do it over a longer period of time instead of the 2-3 seconds I was used to. I could actually 1v1 some people as a healer, WOOOO! That's a first!If only I knew from the beginning to skip PvP gear or 12,6k PvE gear, and go straight for 60 blue gear with regen!
I'd like to achieve 2 things with this post.
First thing is to warn other DCs. If you're a fresh 60 DC, or a 60 DC with any gear that struggles in PuG PvP, never mind any purples other than weapon and shirts/pants, just go to the AH and buy the blue regen gear on any slot you can for 300-500 AD a piece. Nope, I didn't miss the "k" from there, they are hundreds of AD, not hundreds of thousands. The best in slot PvP gear for a DC is buyable off the AH for pennies. Go and get it guys, it's dirt cheap to try and it pays back in your first PvP match (provided it's not against a premade) with some long overdue success!
Second thing is, if this reaches any developer, please change the lifesteal on the PvP sets to regen (or add a set that has it), and make accessories for PvP so we can have purple regen jewelry too.
It feels really silly that I have to equip these blues because they are better for PvP than any purple available for the DC in the game.
Well, either this, or balance damage on Dominion maps so regen and HP aren't the only viable PvP stats...
Thanks for reading!
P.S.: Sry if this all have been mentioned before, sry for my english and sry for the wall of text, I'm just so pumped!
*Edit:
Here are some screenshots on how it looks like for me - keep in mind that it's all low budget and I didn't roll a fresh character to min-max this spec, so ability rolls and race isn't the best.
Ability scores are with camp buff, and the gear and action bar is set to what I use in PvP:
Stats from Power to Regen:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_01.jpg
Stats from Movement to AP Gain:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_02.jpg
Defensive stats:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_03.jpg
Feats:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_04.jpg
Post edited by sogronnwo on
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Comments
- HP+regen+CON build
- extremely expensive Power-temp healing build (expense due to having to rely on top ranked enchants for survivability+output)
- arp+dps build.
Any other builds, you will be eaten alive as a solo Cleric before you can make a significant impact, mainly by TRs or GWFs, though sometimes by sneaky CW who plink away from a distance where your spells cannot reach them. Also, you need some skill to avoid competent CC'ing GFs.
Note. If you're going full out for Regen, some of the slots have higher Regen from Green items, not the blues.
For maxing regen tho, you are correct.
Like how much Con (or what your starting roll was)? Actual %'s for crit, rsi, numbers for power etc
Maybe a screenshot of gear (or a gear list with amounts of regen, since those blue items vary even at 60) or even some video? Looking to put together a second set of gear for mine and this looks like a cheap fun option.
With the gear i'm using now, i have 0 upgrades in and i've noticed a masive boost to survivabillty, and this will just get better with enchants and upgrades. My total hp is right now only at 25k, but i'm thinkin of making a score respec, and pump it up to around 27-28k without enchants. Con doesn't really give that much boost to hp. And it's the only thing it's boosting for DC's. The hardest part of the gear to get is probobly the armor with a armor upgrade, i havn't seen one with regen on it.
The Regen is a nice touch, and the stat actually enforces the extra HP you have since Regen works off your max HP. And it's twice as effective when you're bloodied (below half HP).
Starting rolls aren't optimal, I rolled them back in beta when I didn't know what was worthless and what wasn't.
I'd just get the highest Con&Str combo available if I rolled right now.
Race is Half elf for cosmetic reasons, I'd roll a dwarf for PvP (again, Str and Con).
Can't give you a video because I have a 6 year old rig, I have 10 fps on minimum settings :S
Here are some screenshots though - Ability scores are with camp buff, and the gear and action bar is set to what I use in PvP:
Stats from Power to Regen:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_01.jpg
Stats from Movement to AP Gain:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_02.jpg
Defensive stats:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_03.jpg
Feats:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12884954/DC_04.jpg
I tried that, but I found that although the healing output is greater, the MH 4/4 set bonus doesn't do well under CC :S. However the 1000 regen I get on that 4 slots does wonders in that situation.
When I'm not being 1-shot or controlled to death, I feel like I'm pretty adequate, my problem was surviving the CC train, not sustain outside CC.
BTW 1000 regen does around 1k heal / 3 sec while at 50% or below, MH 4/4 does 1500 heal on encounters that have 8, 15 and 15 sec CD, so it's roughly 6k heal / 15 secs or 1200 heal /3 secs. If you are concerned on your sustain, you are better off with the 1k regen than the MH 4/4 because it works under CC, MH 4/4 requires you to push your encounter as soon as they cool. The 1k regen doesn't do squat for healing party members tho, I understand that point.
It's not twice as effective and it's not based on max HP actually. Regen scales linearly with missing HP. 10% regen means you regenerate 10% of your missing HP every 3 seconds. It caps at 50% HP tho, so that means that 10% regen is at best 10% of 50% missing HP aka. 5% of max HP / 3 secs, this occurs at or below 50% HP.
You can only say regen is based on max HP at or below 50% HP, and even then it's half the displayed amount.
False advertisement if you ask me
Thank you. Funnily, I had same neck in bank (pvp) and I bought exactly the same blue regen stuff off AH yesterday (minus the gloves - couldn't find any). Was happy to see that in general they come with nice defense. I did a little messing around with it but nothing really commital so far.
Your starting roll is far more optimal than mine - 19 con?! (no wonder you find your survivability better) I have to max mine just to get 14. That's how little thought I gave it. I also rolled early in beta. Your stats (crit/recov etc) are pretty much what I expected to see. I think I prefer a little more balance between offense and defense but I did like how it worked when health dropped significantly, at least in conjunction with HW and MH set etc so I think maybe I'll see how low I can go with it and still keep it useful when low on hp. Seriously considering re-rolling though. Gear's pretty cheap now and enchants aren't bound so it might not be that much of a hassle tbh.
The added bonus to this btw is that with these feats, this build also works in PvE. High healing output with Miracle Healer set or high party buffs through Linked Spirit with 2*Beacon+2*Templar.
Just did a CN yesterday, it was a breeze and I only had to swap gear and powers.
I'm pretty satisfied with all of this
Well, our paragon feats differ somewhat but pve isn't really too demanding in general and when it is, it's usually not because of insufficient healing or hard mobs .. if you catch my drift. I'm still not convinced about stacking regen high to the detriment of other stats because I think much of your new found survivablility comes from a 30k hp buffer against arpen burst, but I can see how a decent amount could work nicely when cc'd and kiting etc especially if you prefer sacred flame. Anyway, thanks again.
You can't heal at all if you're dead, so the regen does way more for the party then any offensive healing stats does.
I can see how it would still be OP for PvP survivability rendering the DC a real nuisance to the enemy due to being able to operate deep behind enemy lines.
From a PvE perspective I have gone one better though, I went threat reduction all the way and monitor what I do and when. A loose Blue Astral Shield topping up people who don't really need it while a fresh group of adds is spawning can get you destroyed really fast and for no reason. One Healing word on the Tank and a Golden Shield will allow the DC to just run around in deeper stealth than a rogue could ever dream of(not true: I have 3/3 Battlewise and 3/3 Sooth and TR's can still flip a mob off onto me like water off a ducks back but nobody else can, if anyone else even breathes near a mob they will get aggro off me) while still accomplishing the same goal(keep tank at max health and have heals in reserve for emergencies).
Since healing in a reactionary way rather than spam healing keeps you quite safe the Power/Crit/Recovery that Regen would cost you translate's into some really tasty big juicy heals that can heal a person on the brink of death licketty-split.
I've tried running with extreme pure Defense builds in pvp. It never works well. Far better is high HP and no gear will help you against the 30% mitigation reduction of an HV CW (especially those who have high ArP/GPF and use the control spells that proc HV) except HP and Deflection, but good luck getting high amounts of the latter as a DC.
Trying to decide on starting rolls for my first DC as a dwarf.
I agree with that completely. HP is the best defensive stat for pvp, but the armor pieces I'm talking about (head, gloves, feet) wouldn't sacrifice any HP. The trade just swaps out the majority of your regeneration stat for overcapped defense which I find more helpful than regeneration against high burst teams.
my clerics are very viable in PvP and follow none of those builds... I go high power with no armor penetration and high defense (a power driven offense rating of 8,000 to 10,000 depending upon which cleric I run will rack up kills without armor penetration just fine). Rank 5 enchants seem sufficient and armor/weapon enhancements can wait (I just got lessers but did fine in PvP without them). I max out strength and wisdom. Gear score seems to make a huge difference, and that makes little sense in that if I use blue exemplar's and rack up defense and even go for dodging I get killed very easily on hits, but with less defense, virtually no dodge, and a higher gear score my defense seems to be quite sufficient.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgnBqPL5YC4
1300 regen 2k defense with perfect soulforged i don't see how any higher defense woul save me over having this regen here.... i live against 5 ppl for minutes on end, even dying 0 times.... it's ridiculous, how long can you tank against 3-5 ppl?
Errr... I don't understand how you could possibly get steamrolled. I myself have a 60 DC with full miracle healer set and t2.5 weapons . I only have some basic enchantments NO tenebs. I run frequent CN without trouble, and I also got a little "PvP" Set up which allows me to 1v1 about 95% of players. (you still have those players like me who got a dc, know all their skills and won't get taken for fools, but that amount of players is sooooooooooo negligible, you will maybe find one every 15 games).
I would be Writing a guide about this If I wasn't already busy writing a comprehensive CW one. If you really are fed up and are not exagerating what you said, feel free to send me a PM, and I can help you out setting your stuff right. If you got a mic, I can even assist you over voice chat if you want.
Here for the build+guide
I'll be checking the forums tho, so if you make the guide for it, I'll appreciate it. I might learn something new.
I have to say in advance however, that everything I tried in MH set only worked until I encountered meaningful enemies. A lot of things work against baddies, it's just that I don't consider those wins successes. Against well geared, feated and played characters I only found the HP+ regen build viable for survival (and that too only until someone with Tenebs shows up).
There are many ways the other classes can juke us. Dodging CCs, Dailies and Lashing Blades only works when the enemy telegraphs their move.
If they do that, they're bad.
If they don't do it, you're dead short of a big HP and regen pool.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy if you manage to prove me otherwise! Please do so!
Mixed experiences. Against average players - seemed a little better than my pve gear setup (divine emissary mostly). Against geared players - honestly could not tell the difference. Regen didn't have a chance to help me out my health dropped so fast. Against a single tank spec gf - yeah - a little difference. Against anything with actual dps - no effective difference.
That's with a regen of 1,784. I just did not have enough defence or deflection to make the regen useful (could only get defense to 1440). On my gwf that regen would have been godly. On my cleric - a decidedly non-godly class (oh the irony) - just meh. Maybe I need to play around with different feats or power setup - but honestly going back to pvp on even this new and improved dc after having played my gwf for awhile was just so dispiriting I could not be assed. To sum it up: get an encounter off. slide. try a heal. slide. die.
Well, yes, compared to any other class, but especially a GWF, even the small but significant survival advantage regen can give a good DC does not compare. You still need to be very good at stacking your mitigation, heals, CC and timing dodges, relying on team mates and even escaping for some breathing room before returning with full HP.
Regen is no magic bullet on a DC, unlike a GWF where it is supreme due to high synergy (both passive and active) with the class. Entire groups can sometimes make no dent on a well-specced and geared GWF, so much so, that sometimes whenever you see that same enemy GWF on a point, it is easier to just take the other two cap points, winning that way, and just ignore the GWF. No other class has that effect regardless of build...
Forgot to mention. PVE farming is a cake with this type of build. Don't even slot a heal skill or need a companion.