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shafikmaceno
Member Posts: 55
Why not find guides on the other "talents" rogue, few as the executioner? They are not viable?
Thank you!
Thank you!
Post edited by shafikmaceno on
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Ok, I'm sorry if I expressed bad.
Why not find guides on the other rogue feats, few as the executioner? They are not viable?
Thank you!
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
It is to agree with you as regards to PvE, the damage in Executioner is more "consistent." I wonder why use as few of these feats for anyone who plays PvP ... because it is not possible that pile of feats do not have some kind of synergy with TR ...
I'd wait speccing and investing in your rogue until after the next big patch. There's a world of hurt coming to TR's and they are messing with core mechanics so much that a lot of builds will have to be revised.
There are plenty of good guides though, not all on Executioners. The sticky for it is right at the top of the forum.
But in Pvp?!?!
Wait until the patch, but it looks like Executioner will be the most popular one. Saboteur relies heavily on staying in stealth a long time, and they will be messing with that in the next patch.
Executioners don't benefit that much from staying in stealth, except for being hidden of course, but can feat for maximizing damage right after stealth breaks. And that will happen a lot more if the patch goes through.
Join the first neverwinter giveaway
dont think so. You will likelly stay ahead but the difference in damage wont be as big because the 2 factors that provided a great buff for the damage are being removed:
1- stealth beng removed by at wills will seriously impact one of our greatest sources of damage, that was combat advantage(along with other sweet buffs feats would give us while on stealth deppending on build).
2- LA change from 60% damage to 15% crit sev = huge nerfbat swung on our damage. And that combines with lack of combat advantage and a shortened duration.
How the hell a tree dependent on crit severity while stealthed will be the prime choice with the next stealth changes?
1 DF = 1 stealth meter ( even if you add 45% more stealth meter ( 20% from heroic + 25% from PvP GG gear).
that means you will have to waste 1 more encounter slot for shadow strike to keep on regenerating stealth... while you could use much better one as wicked reminder.
1 shots with lashing blade ? try 1 shooting a GF or a GWF with the new LA short duration and ridiculously low damage.
please keep in mind their amount of defense and deflection.
explaining things better for you
the exec tree will shine mostly because of 4 feats:
1- dazzling blades: with this feat, you reduce the cooldown for your encounters so you can cast them more, thus more damage
2- deadly momentum: even though DF got nerf, the crit sev this feat provides along with high crit chance = more damage as well
3- critical teamwork: 5% extra crit chance = you will be landing more crits, and making more use of crit sev, but this is debatable since 5% loss on crit chance for not having this may not impact THAT much deppending on stats and gear, but even so its highly recommendable
4 - overrun critical: When you land a critical hit, one of your next attacks strikes with 30% of your crit severity. Again, high crit chance = this turning on more times.
the only feat from exec highly deppendant on stealth was brutal backstab, but even with the way stealth was affected by the upcoming nerf, this will be very good for lashing blade. Even if you only enter stealth specifically for initiating the fight with lashing, this feat will kick in an awessome boost on damage.
so botton line, exec tree provides some pretty awessome boost to your dps despite of stealth, at least when compared to the other trees.
Thanks for your explanation , and i agree on all of them except for dazzling blades : it is "5%" chance to reduce your ecounters CD by " 1 second" kinda trashy but better than nothing.
I think the Scoundrel tree will be better for the following feats:
Nimble Blade : 35 % chance to deal 20% more dmg on a non critical strike.
Underhanded Tactics : increase effectiveness of combat advantage by 20%
Press the advantage : your ItC increase your power by 10%.
Mocking Knave : Sly Flourish and CoS deal 10% more dmg and CoS stack effectiveness increased by 2.5% ( thats is mainly for PvP)
Catspaw Style : Blitz and dazing strike reduce the target deffense by 10% ( so you can use your dazing strike on bosses as a debuffer along with wicked reminder)
Brutal Wound : Courage Breaker and Whirlwind of blades deals 250% of your weapon damage for 5 seconds
Whirlwind Sneak Attack : for 10 seconds after leaving stealth , your next encounter power will deal 15% more damage .(will stack with Cunning Ambusher which will make the total outcome 21% more damage)
Use ItC , Dazing strike , Wickedreminder / lashing blade with this build and enjoy your DPS.
I like this build because it doesnt really depend on being stealthed at all , and it increase you % of damage without having to land a critical strike.
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So lets make a quick math on lashing blade
Consider lashing blade dealing 10,000 damage and consider you have 75% base crit severity + 50% if you have a perfect vorpal + 15% from Lurker assault .
For executioner :
So total will be : 75+25+50+15 = 165%
So critted LB = 10,000 * (1+1.65) = 26500 (must be stealthed)
Now with scoundrel tree : 10,000 LB will be increased by 21% (from Cunning ambusher + whirwind sneak attack ) which will make the total damage : 12,100
Total crit severity = 75+15 +50 = 140%
So lets say LA will crit now = 12,100 *(1+1.40) = 29040 ( the only defect here is that you wont guarantee that LB will crit since the calculation is based on exiting stealth )
I will try to put this as in simple terms as possible, with support...
I, Svetlana Anesjka of Mindflayer, along with Click and Banelorne and many others....
Every build is effected, DPS loss is ...
30 % + on Executioner
80 % + PvP Int Based Stealth build
25 % + Hybrid Executioner Saboteur
25 % + Hybrid Executioner Scoundrel
40 % + Hybrid Scoundrel Saboteur
Overall, Class Breaking.
New Paragon Path is even broken before launch as it has elements off of stealth as well that cannot even really be put into play due to how low stealth lasts and it's limited to zero role in the class.
Taps is playing Gentlemen, the class is dead if this goes live.
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Edit: great writeup Esteena but you forget one thing. The lack of stealth will now require you to face tank mobs / Bosses, if that role stays the same.... with low defense, low AP gain and a ton of pure damage aggro... With limited options to dropping / avoiding aggro / damage.
Stock up on Injury kits
So i highly doubt that the changes will go live as they are , since almost 99% of TRs dislike it.
i wouldnt mind if they nerfed perma stealth build, but main problem is that they broke the whole class in order to appease the ever crying people on forum. Stealth and LA nerfs are absurd to say the least, a nerf on SS and B&S would far better than what they did and would only affect the perma stealth factor, not the whole class. I have my hopes up that those changes they mentioned for stealth and LA will neve make it to live server
I plan on quitting if it goes live, but I leveled a GWF to 60, to see if it was a viable option for PvP / DPS....
It's not... not even close.
I've faced perma-stealth builds and while annoying, they're beatable. I see them so infrequently (probably because of sheer cost involved) compared to godlike GWF's and GF's. It's disheartening to see such drastic changes being thrown our way.
As it's been pointed out in many threads, simple changes to Bait and Switch and a few others would completely fix the issue and keep the class alive.
To complete you math you only need to multiply the crit severity for crit chance and here you go:
10,000 * (1+1.65 * 1.0) = 26500
12,100 *(1+ 1.40 * 0.5) = 20570 (and I was generous giving you 50% crit chance)
this is the average damage with cunning ambusher + whirlwind snake attack.
The funny thing is that even if you have those feats you'll deal more damage from stealth:
10,000 * (1+1.4 * 1) = 24000
Of course I'm not taking into account the fact that you may use another encounter to go out from stealth but they usually don't do more damage (except path of the blades but it's rather a burst increase rather than a flat increase).
So overall, no, executioner is still better damage wise (and I have a full saboteur build).
So here is a scenario :
As an executioner TR , i will activate my LA filing up my stealth and using LB as initiator for a good high dmg insurance.
As a scoundrel , i will activate my LA , throwing my echanced 10 % increased 8 daggers with 2.5% increased stack effectiveness , then wait to get out of stealth to do my enchanced LB.
Damage wise , Scoundrel is better .. since im not depending on a stealthed LB here.
anyhow, it depends on your playstyle since im not a fan of wasting stealth on LB anyways.
I Find alot of stealth builds on Mindflayer and you start recognizing them by name before hte match even begins, so you can prepare for the encounters.
One thing people dont realize is stealth build rogues, with INT based foundation, sacrifice a **** ton of HP and DMG for survivability.
Once you get them out of stealth, all they are is a slow moving practice dummy.
As far as their damage goes.. I was literraly caught blindsided by God 2.0 while I was typing a sentence in party on the Rivenscar Ruins map.... Needless to say I finished my sentence expecting to be dead, and when I looked, i was only at half health.
As a Hybrid build Rogue myself, standing there taking non defended damage against a Stealth rogue for a good 5 seconds and only being at half health..... Well, It makes me sit here and shake my head at why are people crying so much...
So GWF and GF dont like losing a quarter of their health to something they dont see ?
Drink a PvP or Rejuv pot and you can outheal the damage they deal.
Even their Lashings only hit for 9k on me with 1.6k defense... I would imagine a GF with at least 3500 defense, a Stealth rogue's Lashing would be like a mosquito bite.
i'm just thinking of a scoundrel based build which would work something like this:
keep distances with impact shot and defense debuffing blitz (one makes you jump backwards the other pushes the opponent away), roll around like sonic all the time and refill your stealth with shadow strike.
use stealth a lot but not like you used to be: now you aim at the encounter boost and subsequent scoundrel next encounter buff to create "sorta-safe" bursts (impact can stun, blitz can slow). additionally use the class feature that refills stealth on daily use, the scoundrel tree should give you good AP generation (especially with impact shot) and the +15% damage for 6 seconds is not bad either to burst in pvp. use bloodbath with good timing to evade enemy attacks or possibly courage breaker to gimp their ability to fight back or run. whirlwind of blades would work too but i kinda dislike that one.
actual fight would be like stealth->blitz->impact->shadow->stealth->impact(free)->impact->daily->stealth->blitz->repeat...
this should be pretty fun, capitalizing on the extremely short stealth we're given only as a trigger for encoutner boosts and +damage after leaving stealth feats. and you can always just use stealth to flee in a pinch or get close unseen, only flaw is it doesn't have room for ItC.
well it's just something that came out thinking of a build that could make use of short stealth, i'm sure there are plenty better out there, the big problem is PvE builds, cryptic pls, give us back PvE viability.