Please re-read this sentence and then point out where I said CW's need a nerf.
"TR's need a nerf as much as GF, GWF and CW. Meaning they don't need to be nerfed at all until Cryptic decides to deal with the real problem first, stacking ubergear with uberenchantments. "
How does "meaning they DON'T need to be nerfed" translate into "they need a nerf"?
Yerune why why why.
Let me explain. You group 4 classes together in one statement. The statement says that all classes dont need a nerf. You infer they are all balanced and equal and dont need any change.
Myself and others who read your statement see for what it is. As of current gameplay CW are not on the same page as GWF, TR and GF.
Yet you lump them together as a statement they are fine.
Edit: Question do you think CW are well balanced 1v1 currently.
Let me explain. You group 4 classes together in one statement. The statement says that all classes dont need a nerf. You infer they are all balanced and equal and dont need any change.
Edit: Question do you think CW are well balanced 1v1 currently.
Allright, fair enough. My point is no nerfs are needed, necessary or even remotely useful as long as the problem with ubergear and uberenchantments (tene's) is not addressed, acknowledged and fixed.
Question for you: do you feel the game is as unbalanced post-60 as it is pre-60?
I think pre-60 balance is more or less okay, meaning it can ONLY be the enchants and gear that's creating the unbalance.
Allright, fair enough. My point is no nerfs are needed, necessary or even remotely useful as long as the problem with ubergear and uberenchantments (tene's) is not addressed, acknowledged and fixed.
Question for you: do you feel the game is as unbalanced post-60 as it is pre-60?
I think pre-60 balance is more or less okay, meaning it can ONLY be the enchants and gear that's creating the unbalance.
.
I must admit i raced to cap on my toons and didnt PVP until 60 so i cant really say with any authority. My preference is that PVP gear/adjustments should not effect PVE. I wish that devs could handle one.
I agree that GWF and GWF heavily geared are overblown. Add tenes in and its unrealistic. High HP and high defense/mitigation should equal lowered damage. Tenes breaks that. GWF were just terrible at beta launch but they have gone too far.
I think that CWs need some better damage mitigation and that would help balance somewhat. Easy to RP as CWs have a lot of defensive spells in D&D. GF and GWF are too strong atm and that is gear related. Not easy to fix.
Rogues have been a powerclass from the beginning and need adjusting. Permanent stealth IMO is not realistic. I can see why they would be unhappy with change when they are up against geared GF and GWF.
Theres no easy answer to the balancing act. If there was the devs in every game would be all over it.
yet its still possible to execute....seems strange when its unrealistic, doesnt it?
So by your reasoning then if it is possible it should continue to be possible. Or are you just attempting to malign my use of the word unrealistic. Considering it is a game realism doesnt apply but the use of the word does work in this context.
unrealistic
adj.
Not compatible with reality or fact; unreasonably idealistic: unrealistic expectations.
Now lets explore unrealistic expectaions further.Things that have been possible in the game.
Gear bugs allowing end game oneshotting.
Client side inventory hacks
AH bugs
Abuse of walls to by pass the entire content of the end game dungeons.
These have been possible but it is an unreasonable expectation that they should be achievable and stay in the game.
Now lets look at permanent stealth allowing a single player to solo end game, at cap, 5 man content by abusing broken mechanics.
Hmmm seems unrealistic that the developers intended for this to be acheivable.
.
Rogues have been a powerclass from the beginning and need adjusting. Permanent stealth IMO is not realistic. I can see why they would be unhappy with change when they are up against geared GF and GWF.
I reckon 'adjusting' and fixing broken powers is different from nerfing. TR's survived the nerf to Shocking Execution, DC's survived the fix/nerf to Astral Shield. But am I right that we agree that it's the gear that can make any class OP?
I still think perma-stealth is not a problem, at least not in PvP. Although I do get that any class who relies on ranged attacks are at a serious disadvantage, as they need a target before being able to hit, unlike a melee or AoE attack. I just think it's more a paper-scissors-rock thing though.
Nerfing is always upsetting players, buffing the others is way more satisfying to everyone. I assume CW's and DC's have the biggest problems with stealth. Some of their encounters could have been buffed to completely break stealth (Shield, Steal Time, SunBurst, etc). Have glowing effects on TR's diminish stealth generation. Those are buffs, and make players happy (or at least not as unhappy).
CoS and stealth is the exception for me. A TR in melee range is actually quite visible, certainly when attacking. I think the same should apply when CoS is used. So making any attack lessen stealth is complete overkill and affects the core skill of the class.
I get that it wasn't the intention to be able to solo epic-dungeons. But again, it's overkill to gimp the core skill when the devs could just have easily given more mobs and bosses the ability to spot stealth. (pop in a few bloodhounds and let them chase the rogue
And that's the reason why I am actually upset with this suggested nerf. It could have been handled so much better without nerfing a core class skill. I've got all 5 classes to 60, so I'm really not particularly biased to any one. To me it's a very worrying idea that the devs are actually willing to nerf base powers, which may or may not fix a problem that may or may not have been caused by it in the first place.
As far as lvl 60 pvp goes, fighting people in rank5/lesser and people in maxrank/perfect/tene every offense slot is like night and day. If anything is making classes look op it is the enchants.
As far as lvl 60 pvp goes, fighting people in rank5/lesser and people in maxrank/perfect/tene every offense slot is like night and day. If anything is making classes look op it is the enchants.
That is true. Just removed my only bad enchant a rank 6 dark last night for a rank 8. Good to get rid of that ugly thing. I like a large variety in gear and enchants and top end enchants hard to work for. I would like to see some new rank 11's introduced lol.
I still think perma-stealth is not a problem, at least not in PvP.
I just think it's more a paper-scissors-rock thing
I see what you did there.
I dont think dcs survived. CW and DC who is our paper if we are scissors.
COS spamming stealthed rogues. Frankly i think COS immediately breaking stealth would have been a better balance with the idea of bosses having "truesight" as you suggested. That way rogues could have kept their melee damage with the ability to have a ranged attack.
Perm stealth is simple to counter. A cw with steal time or a tr with path of blades is all you need to beat one. Once you hit them once in stealth they tend to be screwed as staying stealth permanently requires precise timing.
I dont get how tenes are not getting nerfed as they are the real problem. But you need to spend money to get those, so i guess that explains it. Too bad trs didnt have to buy a stealth increasing kit from zen store for perma stealth to work than it would be nerf proof.
What if you are neither CW or TR ? What if you don't have any in your group ?
How could it be balanced that a class is immune to everything except 2 specific powers ? Are you serious ?
Stealth rogues are nubs anyway, all they can do is attack while you cannot even counter-attack. They will have to adapt.
Rogue is not dead, I can't help laughing when I hear that. I got a rogue too, and Lurker's Assault is above any other daily except maybe Ice Knife. The easy mode LA+LB+Vorp=OS will be gone, and that is a good thing. TR will still deal a lot of damage, no doubt about it. But OS is not necessary. A TR can easily daze-lock his target, and kill it. That's the way TRICKSTER rogue are meant to be played. Not wandering around killing everyone with 1 hit as soon as their daily is up, or killing CW/DC/TR with LA+CoS+stealth.
Rogues tend to reply l2p when you whine about those perma stealth nubs camping nodes while untargetable, but soon they will be the ones who will have to adapt and learn, stripped of their easy mode.
It won't affect PVE in anyway. Why would it ? Because TRs will deal less DPS ? So what ? They are not the only class in this game that is SUPPOSED to DPS. Plus, it doesn't matter whether they kill a boss within 10mins or 16mins, if the group can survive 10 mins then it would survive 16.
Sad that rogues don't QQ as much when they camp nodes in stealth and OS people with LA+LB.
Comments
Yerune why why why.
Let me explain. You group 4 classes together in one statement. The statement says that all classes dont need a nerf. You infer they are all balanced and equal and dont need any change.
Myself and others who read your statement see for what it is. As of current gameplay CW are not on the same page as GWF, TR and GF.
Yet you lump them together as a statement they are fine.
Edit: Question do you think CW are well balanced 1v1 currently.
Allright, fair enough. My point is no nerfs are needed, necessary or even remotely useful as long as the problem with ubergear and uberenchantments (tene's) is not addressed, acknowledged and fixed.
Question for you: do you feel the game is as unbalanced post-60 as it is pre-60?
I think pre-60 balance is more or less okay, meaning it can ONLY be the enchants and gear that's creating the unbalance.
I must admit i raced to cap on my toons and didnt PVP until 60 so i cant really say with any authority. My preference is that PVP gear/adjustments should not effect PVE. I wish that devs could handle one.
I agree that GWF and GWF heavily geared are overblown. Add tenes in and its unrealistic. High HP and high defense/mitigation should equal lowered damage. Tenes breaks that. GWF were just terrible at beta launch but they have gone too far.
I think that CWs need some better damage mitigation and that would help balance somewhat. Easy to RP as CWs have a lot of defensive spells in D&D. GF and GWF are too strong atm and that is gear related. Not easy to fix.
Rogues have been a powerclass from the beginning and need adjusting. Permanent stealth IMO is not realistic. I can see why they would be unhappy with change when they are up against geared GF and GWF.
Theres no easy answer to the balancing act. If there was the devs in every game would be all over it.
Perma stealth isn't desired then. It doesn't belong in a game because it will ruin it and that's why it needed to be removed. Where is huckafive?
So by your reasoning then if it is possible it should continue to be possible. Or are you just attempting to malign my use of the word unrealistic. Considering it is a game realism doesnt apply but the use of the word does work in this context.
unrealistic
adj.
Not compatible with reality or fact; unreasonably idealistic: unrealistic expectations.
Now lets explore unrealistic expectaions further.Things that have been possible in the game.
Gear bugs allowing end game oneshotting.
Client side inventory hacks
AH bugs
Abuse of walls to by pass the entire content of the end game dungeons.
These have been possible but it is an unreasonable expectation that they should be achievable and stay in the game.
Now lets look at permanent stealth allowing a single player to solo end game, at cap, 5 man content by abusing broken mechanics.
Hmmm seems unrealistic that the developers intended for this to be acheivable.
I reckon 'adjusting' and fixing broken powers is different from nerfing. TR's survived the nerf to Shocking Execution, DC's survived the fix/nerf to Astral Shield. But am I right that we agree that it's the gear that can make any class OP?
I still think perma-stealth is not a problem, at least not in PvP. Although I do get that any class who relies on ranged attacks are at a serious disadvantage, as they need a target before being able to hit, unlike a melee or AoE attack. I just think it's more a paper-scissors-rock thing though.
Nerfing is always upsetting players, buffing the others is way more satisfying to everyone. I assume CW's and DC's have the biggest problems with stealth. Some of their encounters could have been buffed to completely break stealth (Shield, Steal Time, SunBurst, etc). Have glowing effects on TR's diminish stealth generation. Those are buffs, and make players happy (or at least not as unhappy).
CoS and stealth is the exception for me. A TR in melee range is actually quite visible, certainly when attacking. I think the same should apply when CoS is used. So making any attack lessen stealth is complete overkill and affects the core skill of the class.
I get that it wasn't the intention to be able to solo epic-dungeons. But again, it's overkill to gimp the core skill when the devs could just have easily given more mobs and bosses the ability to spot stealth. (pop in a few bloodhounds and let them chase the rogue
And that's the reason why I am actually upset with this suggested nerf. It could have been handled so much better without nerfing a core class skill. I've got all 5 classes to 60, so I'm really not particularly biased to any one. To me it's a very worrying idea that the devs are actually willing to nerf base powers, which may or may not fix a problem that may or may not have been caused by it in the first place.
As always, just my 2c though.
That is true. Just removed my only bad enchant a rank 6 dark last night for a rank 8. Good to get rid of that ugly thing. I like a large variety in gear and enchants and top end enchants hard to work for. I would like to see some new rank 11's introduced lol.
I see what you did there.
I dont think dcs survived. CW and DC who is our paper if we are scissors.
COS spamming stealthed rogues. Frankly i think COS immediately breaking stealth would have been a better balance with the idea of bosses having "truesight" as you suggested. That way rogues could have kept their melee damage with the ability to have a ranged attack.
erhm... wrote one of my sometimes intelligent posts?
In pvp DC's got the shaft, although I do read about some who do pretty well.
As for CW, anyone that's not right there on the ledge with you or couldn't get their weapon close enough
What if you are neither CW or TR ? What if you don't have any in your group ?
How could it be balanced that a class is immune to everything except 2 specific powers ? Are you serious ?
Stealth rogues are nubs anyway, all they can do is attack while you cannot even counter-attack. They will have to adapt.
Rogue is not dead, I can't help laughing when I hear that. I got a rogue too, and Lurker's Assault is above any other daily except maybe Ice Knife. The easy mode LA+LB+Vorp=OS will be gone, and that is a good thing. TR will still deal a lot of damage, no doubt about it. But OS is not necessary. A TR can easily daze-lock his target, and kill it. That's the way TRICKSTER rogue are meant to be played. Not wandering around killing everyone with 1 hit as soon as their daily is up, or killing CW/DC/TR with LA+CoS+stealth.
Rogues tend to reply l2p when you whine about those perma stealth nubs camping nodes while untargetable, but soon they will be the ones who will have to adapt and learn, stripped of their easy mode.
It won't affect PVE in anyway. Why would it ? Because TRs will deal less DPS ? So what ? They are not the only class in this game that is SUPPOSED to DPS. Plus, it doesn't matter whether they kill a boss within 10mins or 16mins, if the group can survive 10 mins then it would survive 16.
Sad that rogues don't QQ as much when they camp nodes in stealth and OS people with LA+LB.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )