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Rouge nerfs need to be nerfed
arcmoon99
Member Posts: 499 Arc User
So, I decided to test out the new update on the preview shard and I thought "The nerfs on the TR can't be that bad." Boy was I wrong. I have full set T1 pvp gears and it's suppose to increase my stealth by 20%, and with the new at-wills deteriorate stealth thing, I can only do sly flourish 1 time. What's the point of using an at-will power if it instantly gets rid of my stealth? Why not just stick to encounters? They already do that. If this goes live stealth combat will completely die and it will bring the TR class with it. At-wills should not deteriorate stealth. They are the only attack excluding "Shadow Strike" and "Bait and Switch" that you can use without loosing all of your stealth.
Do not bring this nerfing live or you could risk loosing a big chunk of your community.
What you should do to fix perma stealth is make it so "Bait and Switch" and "Shadow Strike" only partially fill up the stealth meter instead of completely.
Do not bring this nerfing live or you could risk loosing a big chunk of your community.
What you should do to fix perma stealth is make it so "Bait and Switch" and "Shadow Strike" only partially fill up the stealth meter instead of completely.
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Post edited by arcmoon99 on
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I don't even... how do I reply to... what?
I hope the devs listen....
That's called balancing the class not nerfing it , if you wanna roam around in stealth without attacking cool NP but if you want to attack - better lose the stealth it's only fair you know what i'm saying ? You have more than enough utility encounters that you may use to disable your target in order to kill it I mean the Trs got the biggest single dps in the game right .
Stealth should be used to gain position advantage and there should be a trade-off for this , atm there is no trade-off you can just hide and throw daggers and then run away while still stealthed .
^ this. /10kittens
Thing is though, a TR in melee range is already visible, although harder to spot. Stealthed attacks make the blue circle underneath your feet light up red in the direction of the attack, be it Cos or melee.
I understand and support the idea that CoS should break stealth the same way and Lurker's should not keep stealth up when doing encounters that would otherwise break stealth (Impact Shot).
But imo, there is no justification for changing this baseskill so much it changes the entire TR gameplay.
If some powers do 1-shot kill, they should think in give other thigs to powers, like stuns, blind, daze, etc. Rogues allways were some controllerish.
Being realistic, in a normal scenario, a wizard should be able to beat a rogue at distance, but if the rogue gets to melee, he should be able to take down the wizard (thats why stealth is important).
Just my opinion
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Low armor class?
Isn't that rogues as well?
Whats the point of stealth if you barely benefit from stealth?
Positional advantage? the instant u pop out of stealth adds attack you, what combat advantage did you gain? nothing. You escaped... Nice damage dealing striker class you are.
Sneak attacking? That does actually damage? this sounds like stealth + encounter combo which is already there but too bad combat advantage doesn't help rogue deal more damage for a sneak attack aside from lashing.
Not to mention our at-wills is counterintuitive to our stealth
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There is already a significant trade off for stealth, which is the squishiness of TR's. Even TR's who stack defense, Radiants for defense, and use their dodge with solid timing and skill are very easy to kill. In epics where you are dealing with massive numbers of red circles and cones on the ground, rogues need to be able to avoid notice for as long as possible to avoid instant death.
Part of why TR's have huge single target DPS is Lurker's Assault, which is being massively nerfed. Not only is the duration cut in half (unlisted change), but the damage is dropping significantly. Since Shocking Execution was nerfed TR's no longer have a massive execute skill to use either. Since TR's will now have to spend much more time dodging and running away, it's going to be far less enjoyable of a class to play and everything will take much longer.
Secondly, there is always going to be imbalances in PvP based on the fact that gear, enchantments and vorpals dramatically affect gameplay to such a massive degree. You wil never stop people coming into pvp with the current que system that are decked out in greens, without high level enchantments or vorpals that will not get totally destroyed or 1 shotted by someone in any class that is decked out with T2 gear, high level enchants and vorpals. The difference between the two is so drastic, there is no nerfing that will ever work to create any level of balance with these things existing.
It's just not gonna happen, and based on the changes that where put on the test server, I really don't have much confidence in the developers at this point, I hope they prove me wrong but based on what I have seen them do in previous titles, when it comes to pvp they are simply clueless......
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Rouge != Rogue...
This is no different then when they nerfed DC Astral Shield stacking... Not sure why Rogues think their class is more important than all of the other classes and should be allowed to remain overpowerd, broken stealth game mechanic, etc. If you want to continue playing an OP class reroll a GWF and forum cry after they get nerfed in the future...
And i used to think the creator was very well on details but now bag sorting?has it even been tested i seriously doubt that....
in regard to the TR nerf, think about that, i know about the permastealth, well it gotto be gone inevitably, so sure. but to put all stealth TR out of the play? how about go the blizzard stye all the way down, stealth indefinitly while exploring and attack once, now its like you can only stealth for seconds and attack for once or twice, dont say its not drastic!
it just seems like the devs have been losing passion long before the players have, or they would really use their wit to make the modification and balance the skills instead of nerfing every class and every skill to its bottom.
Actually it's not the same. I have 2 DC and 1 TR at level 60. Nerfing stealth like this would be akin to changing the self heal debuff for clerics to -80% less healing on themselves (from -40% which is already absurd). They are nerfing a core class feature not to mention that these nerfs completely gut the saboteur paragon which is all about maximizing the time you spend in stealth.
You nerf that aspect of the rogue...remind me why I'm playing a rogue again....? I can't think of any reason to play one.
Also I'm so sick of the WoW model of constant and infinite changing / "Ballancing" of classes. I don't want to have to re learn to play my class every other month.
Anyhow I was really really starting to enjoy this game and have already purchased a small amount of Zen because I was so impressed within the first 3 days of playing. If classes start changing so dramatically all in the name of "balancing" every other week I'll be done and a potential player who really enjoyed your game will be gone and wont think of coming back. I hope it doesn't go that way.
Exactly. Is it too much to hope for that after beta, the class i play will stay the same, and with future content get things added to it. Why would u mess with the original skills? Why would anyone want to play seriously and pay if u keep changing their class mechanics?
y'all need to stop playing PvP. I've said it so many times i get tired of it. PvP and PvE do not mix. you have to kill one to balance the other.no MMO to DATE has developed both games without one affecting the other...period.
You want interesting and dynamic classes, stop playing PvP. If you want homogenized classes with minimal gear selection that play like a fantasy version of modern warfare, play PvP and whine about balance. that is why the TR got nerfed. because people play PvP, whine about balance, and the dev's think that they can actually balance PvP and PvE. which is silly when you think about all the games that tried and FAILED. PvP needs to remain a sideshow in this game. period. or they need to set it up like LotRO did, where player classes do not battle each other. plain and simple.
PvP kills PvE. PvE design makes for horrid and broken PvP. I wish at some point in time a dev group from ANYWHERE would realize this, step up to the plate, and admit that they are going to at least and try doing ONE good, instead of trying to do both and failing, just like everyone else.
That is BRILLIANT the need to change the giant dagger into a snake if in stealth or add a feat that does it call it bite of the cobra or something, I always felt the giant purple dagger felt kind of silly and lacked immersion but I could so see a ghostly purple snake super imposed on the stelthed rogue darting forwards to symbolize a poisoned blade, if they are coding the Ninja rogue someone should be taking notes. I typically don't go after people's typos but that was just to awesome to pass up.
This x1000
This seems to be because of people complaining about Perma Stealth in PvP. OK, so, people feel too weak next to TR? How about buff the other classes? It sure as hell won't hurt PvE to do so, takes too bloody long to do most delves anyway as it is. No one at all would complain about spending less time in dungeons(OK, someone would, I'm sure). Nerfing a class into non-existence? Yeah, that'll end up affecting everyone who does PvE.
My solo survivability for Foundry quests already sucks, too. I survive by... Staying stealthed and making liberal use of Lurkers to stay stealthed longer/kill things before they kill me. That's... Going to be gone now.
Seriously, LA is no longer worth using at all. It doesn't even help maintain stealth because at-wills burn through it so fast. Stealth is barely worth using because you burn through it so fast.
No, I really don't feel like having to re-learn my class I've had at 60 for ages. This does not sound fun. In fact this sounds the very opposite of fun.
And that's assuming I can even find a way to remain effective/survive. As it is if I screw up once out of stealth I'll probably get **** near one-shot or mobbed by adds so fast I can't heal enough to not die. ._.;
Now you're stuck with shocking execution again (stupidly weak against lashing blade), and a junk lurker's, unless you use one of the other useless dailies. Then they will nerf lashing blade, because it's too strong against everything else, and you'll have to switch to something else. On and on.
Yeah. Going to have to relearn constantly.
I'm thinking the same thing. I'm not spending another dime on this game until I see what goes live! If this goes live I will be moving on also.
This is EXACTLY it! wheres the stability??? How can u expect us to keep paying and playing when at every turn, what we invested in could be changed and nerfed???
Stealth builds already gimp our damage so I believe in that time GWF and GF should be able to withstand our full rotation and afterwards you have that 5 second ( or more due to how much more time they have added to Bait and Switch) time limit to cc us to death ( which IMO is sooo easy to do to rogues [ i also play a GWF] ). Now you ask about CW, should not the main damage of the game be able to kill each other in one rotation??? Many times i have used take down on a stealth rogue because of awareness to my sorrondings it is not that hard and common we dont complain when we get spotted out of stealth and than get blown the f*@%^#! up because of cc and damage, let me emphazise this is ONLY against CW (talking about the damage). It's only fair.
Too many people are being soo ignorant of how our class works ffs devs need to get it straight. Common guys make this known, spread the word because all the devs are doing are trying to make players happy ( im not talking about the TR community ) because they have complained. But what they dont realize is that they are destroying the game's main out put of DPS in PvE and basically killing our survivablitiy in PvP. Thanks and put this into consideration
Ok then, make it so that there is no stealth meter at all. Make it so that staying in steal is not limited in time duration. Make it so that once you use ANY ability while in stealth, you're out of stealth. Instead of a stealth meter running out or filling up, it's just on an <insert second) cooldown between uses.
Would that make you happy?
Comparing DC (which I am) nerf to TR nerf (which I am) is not apples to apples. TR's have already been nerfed hard. Now, if DC's had been nerfed hard again you might have some weight behind your argument. Sadly, you don't.
not very efficient.
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1) Stealth doesn't work. Outside of Lurker's Assault it just isn't functional, and it doesn't really do anything other than allow you to combo with Encounters. It isn't, in fact, "stealth" in any way even approaching the D&D concept. Or anything close to how it works in any other MMO I know of either. It doesn't seem to let you evade mobs, or maneuver for a tactical advantage. I don't know whether if it was different before, but if so it's clearly been nerfed into the ground and badly so.
2) It takes forever for me to build action points. With a Guardian Fighter I can slam out some **** strong dailies time and time again. With the Rogue I take between four to six times as long to build the same amount of meter, no matter how much I try to go for that combat advantage damage.
3) Similarly, it takes forever for me to build back my stamina, and when I do have it I can only perform two dodges, whereas attacks mostly seem to barely scratch my guard meter playing with a GF. Is there even a point to separating things up on so many meters?
4) There aren't enough slots available to be able to make good ability combos. Only having two dailies I can maybe understand, but the limit to three encounter powers seems a little harsh, even when some of them (looking at you, Bait and Switch) are pretty useless and can easily be passed up on.
Having said that, I still love the TR because of its style, and will continue playing with the hope of being competitive at some point, and because the combat system, whatever its flaws, still kicks the collective asses of other MMOs I've played.
1.Tr was rather bad on pve beacasue of Cw and Gwf now it will be hard to find party even on T2 dungeons
(No one wants TR on Castle Never , Malabog Castle, Valindra Tower )
2. If Tr perma-stealth was good on pvp ( beacasue people didnt know how to handle with this build ) now it's gone.
Next for nerf will be HR i had a fight with one that pvp focus Hr had soo many dodges, controls, gap closers, he beat 3 people so easily...
I must find a build of that one ;]
Focus on gwf to nerf
rise up DC, TR , GF to make customer happy and rebalance the game