Well perma stealth is getting fixed that is a huge step in the right direction now we don't have to leave because of that. Take that as a win. As they fix the things that are wrong with the game and make a benefit to stay then players won't leave. /thread
True, once a leaving penalty is in place it will make staying seem more beneficial so less players will leave.
Penalty for leaving would only further discourage people from playing th game....
There is also NO POINT in staying on a match if its a secure loss for the team.. Id rather leave the party and q for another match right away since there is absolute no point in staying for 16 mins when you are going to get 0 rewards anyways...
I will leave if people are fighting just feet away from the node, they can see I'm doing my best against the other team (I hope), but they refuse to stand on the node. Even if we're outnumbered, you'll slow down the cap until allies arrive.
Or they fight so far away from the node that they're out of range, I'll stand on a node till you die, I'll watch you die, then I'll die.
Or, one enemy has gone to cap our second node, so everyone runs off to protect it, whilst four enemies spawn and take out the node I'm trying to protect.
And all four team 'mates' go to take the node on the hill, at the start of the match, really annoys me.
A lot of the DC heals are aoe from the enemy, or from the DC, if you're not near me, you're unlikely to get all my heals.
I can usually keep 3 people busy for quite a while, but people who have been fighting in between nodes who then come and demand to be healed, DC's aren't healers like in other MMO's (though I admit I'm trying to max out heals as much as possible), and then run off to do it again, all the while, im fighting 2-3 of the enemy, I'll leave, you can have your silly fun, I'm there to play the objectives.
If you really want to hit people, with no other objectives, that's what duel's are for.
I would agree with the mount issue, except you can buy the fastest mount on the AH for AD (fairly cheaply, on my server anyway), which is what I ended up doing.
Otherwise, so far (i'm only 35 so far) balance isn't too bad, am a little tired of being dazed to death though.
The problem seems to be across all the MMO's I've played, no situational awareness, players being kited (didn't think it would be possible, but it is)
The problem with giving instructions or commenting, I've noticed, especially when people call for help, is, there are players from different language groups in the same team.
True, once a leaving penalty is in place it will make staying seem more beneficial so less players will leave.
Um no if there is a leaving penalty I will still leave if there is a staying in the match penalty. The answer isn't a penalty. The reason players leave is because the penalty of staying is to harsh maybe if it was rewarding to stay and fun then players wouldn't leave at all. Until staying isn't penalized then you can't have a penalty for leaving because at that point its trying to figure out which is the lesser penalty do I want to take
Um no if there is a leaving penalty I will still leave if there is a staying in the match penalty. The answer isn't a penalty. The reason players leave is because the penalty of staying is to harsh maybe if it was rewarding to stay and fun then players wouldn't leave at all. Until staying isn't penalized then you can't have a penalty for leaving because at that point its trying to figure out which is the lesser penalty do I want to take
Players leave for a variety of reasons, but because its easy to leave and there are no consequences, some of those reasons can be very petty.
I'm not sure if this guy is trolling, but it is a prime example of why there should be a leavers penalty to discourage leaving games. He openly admits leaving 12 games in a row- ie ruining games for 96 other people- just because people weren't playing like he wanted them too. Unbelievably selfish, and unbelievable that there is no leavers penalty to try and curb such behaviour.
Nope - not trolling at all - would you stay with a PuG team in a Dungeon knowing you can't complete it? Same applies to PvP - when I play, I give my best, support my teammates and providing they put up a fight, stick it out to the end (win *or* lose) - if I see them all cap the same base at the beginning, they've already lost the match - why would I stick around? So I can get zerged 50 times and earn zero Glory?
Some players *really are* that stupid - if they learnt some very simple tactics their success rate would improve - and I've tried to tell them but they don't want to listen. Why would I purposefully team with losers?
Nope - not trolling at all - would you stay with a PuG team in a Dungeon knowing you can't complete it? Same applies to PvP - when I play, I give my best, support my teammates and providing they put up a fight, stick it out to the end (win *or* lose) - if I see them all cap the same base at the beginning, they've already lost the match - why would I stick around? So I can get zerged 50 times and earn zero Glory?
Some players *really are* that stupid - if they learnt some very simple tactics their success rate would improve - and I've tried to tell them but they don't want to listen. Why would I purposefully team with losers?
that is better said than I have been saying it. I give your post a +1.
it IS easily comparable to having a pug group in a dungeon, constantly throwing themselves a gainst a boss and failing, running out of potions, etc et al, and then saying oh if you leave though, you get punished. that's incentive to keep doing it!
Someone not being as good as you in pvp isn't a good reason to leave, sorry.
If you have that issue, find a premade and run with them or don't pvp. But leaving 12 matches in a row so you can find the one with players you're ok playing with is such BS. I mean, if the other 48 players over those 12 matches were all horrible, are you really assuming that the people you're playing against are these super organized great pvp groups?
Sounds to me like you shouldn't pvp because your mentality is childish.
Someone not being as good as you in pvp isn't a good reason to leave, sorry.
I agree - and I've never left once because someone was less skilled than me.
I've left because my team-mates were incompetent.
And I've left because they're not team-players - the kind that split off from the group to do their own thing whilst their team-mates are getting their butts kicked on 2.
I've even quit matches we were winning because of bad team-work, showboating and PuGstomping/spawn camping.
But I've never quit because of a bot on the team (I always wait to see whether the team can pull together and I've been in many successful 4 vs 5's).
And I've never quit because my team's losing either.
If you have that issue, find a premade and run with them or don't pvp.
I'm sorry, but who are you to tell me what do?
I PuG precisely because it's unpredictable and you're never guaranteed a victory - I fight as best I can, keep an eye out for my team-mates and do my best to help us win - if they're just dropping into PvP for a daily or some Glory and have no intention of putting up a fight then they're no better than the Bots.
But leaving 12 matches in a row so you can find the one with players you're ok playing with is such BS. I mean, if the other 48 players over those 12 matches were all horrible, are you really assuming that the people you're playing against are these super organized great pvp groups?
So what if the opposition were equally incompetent? Should I sit it out on the sidelines for 40 mins whilst they fight off-base without capturing anything? Should I PuG-stomp them? Spawn camp?
As annoying as a bad team is, fighting helpless opposition is equally pathetic - so yes, I'll continue to quit games and search for better ones because why should I waste my time with people who don't want to win?
And I've left because they're not team-players - the kind that split off from the group to do their own thing whilst their team-mates are getting their butts kicked on 2.
You know, a lot of games I win are because I go suicide on 3 by drawing most of, if not the entire, opposing team with me, so that my teammates have a chance to cap 1 and 2. It's not always "going off on their own". There is a strategy to back capping, and a lot of times TR's can stealth through 2 and pick up 3 to gain points/stop point gain, and cause the opposition to run back to cap their own base.
There are more ways to play this game than simply the one you want. You talk about team play? Why don't YOU play how your TEAM is playing instead of demanding they do it your way, or you leave, which screws everyone else? Your the selfish one here, not the TR who watches his entire team get crushed on 2 over and over and over again, and decides to do some distraction to get people off it.
Twats like you ruin PvP, and you should be penalized for doing it.
You know, a lot of games I win are because I go suicide on 3 by drawing most of, if not the entire, opposing team with me, so that my teammates have a chance to cap 1 and 2. It's not always "going off on their own". There is a strategy to back capping, and a lot of times TR's can stealth through 2 and pick up 3 to gain points/stop point gain, and cause the opposition to run back to cap their own base.
And I bet you get some fat, easy points by doing it too eh?
There are more ways to play this game than simply the one you want. You talk about team play? Why don't YOU play how your TEAM is playing instead of demanding they do it your way, or you leave, which screws everyone else? Your the selfish one here, not the TR who watches his entire team get crushed on 2 over and over and over again, and decides to do some distraction to get people off it.
Oh please. If you're watching your team get crushed at 2 and you sneak off to back-cap, how exactly is that helping your team? Ok, so you can maybe lure some of the opposition back to re-take (who'll be there in seconds since they respawn so close).
Odds are (if they're smart) you'll get one or two of them going to retake - the rest (if they're smart) will consolidate their position on two and get ready for the staggered wave of enemy respawns.
The fact is, if your team's struggling you should be there helping them - making a stealth run to 3 and capturing it for 60 seconds is getting you some free points - the only person you're helping is yourself.
Does the tactic work? Yeah. I've seen it work. Once. But many, many times players just like you have cost us the match.
You know, a lot of games I win are because I go suicide on 3 by drawing most of, if not the entire, opposing team with me, so that my teammates have a chance to cap 1 and 2. It's not always "going off on their own". There is a strategy to back capping, and a lot of times TR's can stealth through 2 and pick up 3 to gain points/stop point gain, and cause the opposition to run back to cap their own base.
There are more ways to play this game than simply the one you want. You talk about team play? Why don't YOU play how your TEAM is playing instead of demanding they do it your way, or you leave, which screws everyone else? Your the selfish one here, not the TR who watches his entire team get crushed on 2 over and over and over again, and decides to do some distraction to get people off it.
Twats like you ruin PvP, and you should be penalized for doing it.
Yes this exactly. I read over and over again players saying they leave because the team is not playing how they think it should. Half the time the poster seems to have little idea of different strategies themselves. They leave a pug with 5 people who may all have a different idea of how to win and justify it with saying the team is incompetent, instead of being flexible and adapting.
In the current example, it is totally normal for a TR to stealth through enemy ranks and back cap- its like a standard tactic, and yet the guy is crying and leaving because of it. That is the kind of crazyiness you get when there is no leavers penalty.
Can we please have a penalty for people who leave in the middle of a PvP match?
He already would have Cryptic balance their game
Between rogues perma-stealth untouchable, the permanent immune rogues controls that kill you in one or two shot, and the defensive warriors who kill in three shots with their knockbacks affecting distance, it is quite logical to see people regularly leave this kind of unplayable conditions!
Now I just quit on the spot - not wasting my time on a team that's too stupid to win against anything other than a team full of bots - and seriously, if the other team is that bad, it's no fun for me roflstomping them - I'd rather find a real match.
these people are the ones typing a long drawn out synopsis in our spawn point on the reasons why the team is rubbish, while the rest of us are trying to cap points while being a man down.
Pvp is not PVE yet you attack it like a boss fight, there is no guaranteed win strategy in a node game, yes taking dominance on two nodes straight away is a very good opener especially to destroy your opposing teams moral. Many times I've been on a team where we are in single or double digits in score and the opposing teams are 500+ and we have come back to win, these imo are the best fights and the reason why I play pvp.
Pvp is not PVE yet you attack it like a boss fight, there is no guaranteed win strategy in a node game
There is, however, a surefire way to lose it, which is to wave your wizened little e-peen around and showboat, trying to farm the other team up at the far end, ignoring the fact that they're just slipping past you, and capping the other points consistently, from the only blue player with enough still-functioning braincells to notice.
This, sadly, describes many PvP matches- and explains what people are trying to explain in their "long drawn out synopsis"*, addressed to a team composed chiefly of people like you.
* The OED defines "synopsis" as a "brief or condensed statement presenting a combined or general view of something", so you appear to be contradicting yourself, in flights of rhetorical ecstasy. Well done.
And I bet you get some fat, easy points by doing it too eh?
Oh please. If you're watching your team get crushed at 2 and you sneak off to back-cap, how exactly is that helping your team? Ok, so you can maybe lure some of the opposition back to re-take (who'll be there in seconds since they respawn so close).
Odds are (if they're smart) you'll get one or two of them going to retake - the rest (if they're smart) will consolidate their position on two and get ready for the staggered wave of enemy respawns.
The fact is, if your team's struggling you should be there helping them - making a stealth run to 3 and capturing it for 60 seconds is getting you some free points - the only person you're helping is yourself.
Does the tactic work? Yeah. I've seen it work. Once. But many, many times players just like you have cost us the match.
Pot, meet kettle.
some fat, easy points? I am going to help with this post.
That person going to take enemy back node, those people are most often the 'vets' of pvp. They can stand and fight 2-3 people and hold them off quite a while before they die (30 seconds to a minute) and doesn't matter what class they are, they still pull it off. (tr's can expect kills, other classes, gf maybe. cw maybe, gwf maybe. clerics shouldn't try this at home)
That is long enough for this persons team to get the back node, and middle node, with almost no efforts on their part, just because the opponent team decided to send 3 people, to fight one person, at one node, ignoring the other two.
First and foremost, never have 3 people fight one person at a node. 2 people at most yes, but otherwise, you migh defend the node successful, might not, but all three nodes are important, not one. You give up 2 nodes, to fight 1 person for 1, and you have given your opponent team the lead, and time to organize and rush you, at your back node, with no escape, andvery close to your spawn point, to be spawn camped. (which is what happens most of the time, when your team starts, with all five of you camping the back node. You get ran over instantly, and lose the match instantly, and you deserve it.)
Doing things as this, leaves you vulnerable, and goes against your team. I dare say you are helping the opponent team win.
That being said, if all five of your people are on the center node, and you expect them to be there, you are wrong. Three nodes are in contest, and you had better be fighting for control of all of them. It is domination pvp, not lets give 2 nodes to the opponents team, and maybe fight lesser numbers, and feel better about ourselves losing the match, because we might get more kills at center.
Now, about your first part, fat juicy points for the guy going to back node? That person likely will not get the back node, because it takes 1 opponent to stop the node being taken.
To continue, that person is likely fighting 2-3 people, keeping them at bay, dodging for his life and controlling the fight in the chaos as best as he can, to give you time. To sacrifice himself for the team. He will probably getno points, while you get free caps and easy kills against lesser people. He is giving you points, not the other way around, because he is sacrificing himself so your team gets a win.
If my team is getting crushed at 2, it is probably because the opposing team has all five people at 2, and no one at 1 and 3. There is a thing of divine and conquer. Separate the enemy team. outmaneuver, overrun. That person that did this is intelligent. I recommend you watch and learn.
odds are, 1 or 2 will come. That one person of yours will stand his ground. in a 1v1 match, the person that went to their back node will likely win, because they are certain of themselves. they are the vets. 2 or 3 people will likely go.
that leaves the four of you on your team the ability to fight a lesser number, and dominate (hopefully, it depends on the members of your teams skill and ability. As a 2 man it is not common, but it has happened where 2 of us slaughtered five at once. The opponent team was horrid.
you say fact is if your team is struggling, to help them. If your team is struggling, you put your team into a position better suited to their fighting and combat. You give them an edge. You had better adapt to give your team and yourselves an advantage in combat and get a win. I.e. Separation, pushing, luring, control, all as important as killing.
does the tactic work? yes. I can garauntee by the things you have mentioned, that your team loses when they listen to you. And it loses often.
pot met kettle. Now it is attempting to teach the kettle how to be a better kettle.
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gutbotMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
This, sadly, describes many PvP matches- and explains what people are trying to explain in their "long drawn out synopsis"*, addressed to a team composed chiefly of people like you.
Oh please, If your going to read between the lines of what I said at least read one or two of the lines.
PVP is ever changing, If you rely on one strategy to win every match then your going to have a bad time.
* The OED defines "Pedantic" as a "excessively concerned with minor details or rules; overscrupulous:. Well done.
I'm not going to argue with you Kiadannah, since as I've already mentioned, I've seen the tactic work - and I've seen it fail, many many times over because the team didn't have a strong enough hold on two.
Dominating 2 and keeping your own base secure will win you the match every time. Players get so distracted by capping the enemy that it clouds their judgement and frequently causes the tables to turn against them. And honestly, how many times have you stood on the enemy's base and watched them across the map capping yours at exactly the same time?
This is a shining example of the attitude of these kinds of players:
* The OED defines "Pedantic" as a "excessively concerned with minor details or rules; overscrupulous:. Well done.
Ironically, it doesn't- having just checked the complete and current version online. However, you have already shown that you consider fact and veracity trifling details, so the confusion is understandable. Have another day.
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gutbotMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 28Arc User
Ironically, it doesn't- having just checked the complete and current version online. However, you have already shown that you consider fact and veracity trifling details, so the confusion is understandable. Have another day.
Haha that is priceless, I'll let you think about it for a second....
Some of the comments here are still treating pvp as pve, One Domination tactic is not a sure fire get the win scenario.
while i appreciate that "the Tactic" is the best one. it isn't the be all and end all tactic to win a domination game
I'm not going to argue with you Kiadannah, since as I've already mentioned, I've seen the tactic work - and I've seen it fail, many many times over because the team didn't have a strong enough hold on two.
Dominating 2 and keeping your own base secure will win you the match every time. Players get so distracted by capping the enemy that it clouds their judgement and frequently causes the tables to turn against them. And honestly, how many times have you stood on the enemy's base and watched them across the map capping yours at exactly the same time?
This is a shining example of the attitude of these kinds of players:
your argument was not to cap enemy teams back node, but then you turn around, and say that you are capping your enemies back node.
Make up your mind of what you are arguing here.
your argument was not to cap enemy teams back node, but then you turn around, and say that you are capping your enemies back node.
What gave you that idea? I'm usually trying to stop my team's base (or 2) getting overrun whilst there's clowns from my side trying to take the enemy's.
Oh, and as an addendum, I've lost track of how many times a team I'm on has fought a tough battle to take 2, then once they've got it, 2 of of them run off to try and take the enemy's base, two run off to try and re-take ours (which of course, has a Rogue on it thinking he's going to turn the tide of the game) leaving just me on two.
Basically, the team goes through hell to capture a point (actually, the most strategically important point on the map) and immediately sacrifices it for free to the enemy.
What gave you that idea? I'm usually trying to stop my team's base (or 2) getting overrun whilst there's clowns from my side trying to take the enemy's.
Oh, and as an addendum, I've lost track of how many times a team I'm on has fought a tough battle to take 2, then once they've got it, 2 of of them run off to try and take the enemy's base, two run off to try and re-take ours (which of course, has a Rogue on it thinking he's going to turn the tide of the game) leaving just me on two.
Basically, the team goes through hell to capture a point (actually, the most strategically important point on the map) and immediately sacrifices it for free to the enemy.
Yes. Some brilliant tactical thinkers in PvP here
what gave me that idea, was you stated to hold onto your back node and middle, and that is all you need, in essence ignoring the third node entirely, letting the enemy have it uncontested.
Something that if an enemy said that to me, I would keep him on payroll to keep having him as an enemy. Easy wins.
if you struggle to take node 2, and win, that means you killed most if not all on the enemies team. They are on timers, and yes, you press. you press where it hurts, and you press hard enough to break them.
If you sit on your *** at 2, then yeah, you are gonna get ran over, because you failed.
They also didn't sacrifice it for free. they already have the node, getting points on it, and forcing the enemy to adapt to suddenly one node is enemies, and the two other nodes are hevily contested.
unless you are on the team, then you are standing in the middle.. not helping your team push anywhere.
if you do things like this, you had better learn to handle yourself against many people to hold, while your team takes the nodes and comes back to help the slaughter at mid.
As per the brilliant tactical thinkers, yes. yes they are. learn from them.
I PuG'ed in a game yesterday against a strong team that had a shot at winning - sadly, their GWF was obsessed with back-capping - he got our base once (when we let him, to have the advantage at 2) whilst his team died over and over. If he'd helped them it might have swung the balance (it took a least two of us to take him down) but he couldn't cap our base when we had a defender there.
Your 'tactic' has its place but it's usually either an act of desperation or stupidity - mostly the latter.
What people do in their premades is their own business and if the strategy works for them, then great but I've lost track of the amount of 8k GS Clerics (your 'PvP vets') I've killed on my home base because they think back-capping is going to win them the game.
The only thing people are learning from this 'strategy' is how to be a bad team-player.
Comments
True, once a leaving penalty is in place it will make staying seem more beneficial so less players will leave.
There is also NO POINT in staying on a match if its a secure loss for the team.. Id rather leave the party and q for another match right away since there is absolute no point in staying for 16 mins when you are going to get 0 rewards anyways...
Or they fight so far away from the node that they're out of range, I'll stand on a node till you die, I'll watch you die, then I'll die.
Or, one enemy has gone to cap our second node, so everyone runs off to protect it, whilst four enemies spawn and take out the node I'm trying to protect.
And all four team 'mates' go to take the node on the hill, at the start of the match, really annoys me.
A lot of the DC heals are aoe from the enemy, or from the DC, if you're not near me, you're unlikely to get all my heals.
I can usually keep 3 people busy for quite a while, but people who have been fighting in between nodes who then come and demand to be healed, DC's aren't healers like in other MMO's (though I admit I'm trying to max out heals as much as possible), and then run off to do it again, all the while, im fighting 2-3 of the enemy, I'll leave, you can have your silly fun, I'm there to play the objectives.
If you really want to hit people, with no other objectives, that's what duel's are for.
I would agree with the mount issue, except you can buy the fastest mount on the AH for AD (fairly cheaply, on my server anyway), which is what I ended up doing.
Otherwise, so far (i'm only 35 so far) balance isn't too bad, am a little tired of being dazed to death though.
The problem seems to be across all the MMO's I've played, no situational awareness, players being kited (didn't think it would be possible, but it is)
The problem with giving instructions or commenting, I've noticed, especially when people call for help, is, there are players from different language groups in the same team.
Um no if there is a leaving penalty I will still leave if there is a staying in the match penalty. The answer isn't a penalty. The reason players leave is because the penalty of staying is to harsh maybe if it was rewarding to stay and fun then players wouldn't leave at all. Until staying isn't penalized then you can't have a penalty for leaving because at that point its trying to figure out which is the lesser penalty do I want to take
Players leave for a variety of reasons, but because its easy to leave and there are no consequences, some of those reasons can be very petty.
That is true.. At the same time the penalty to stay needs to disappear cant have a penalty for staying and leaving.
Nope - not trolling at all - would you stay with a PuG team in a Dungeon knowing you can't complete it? Same applies to PvP - when I play, I give my best, support my teammates and providing they put up a fight, stick it out to the end (win *or* lose) - if I see them all cap the same base at the beginning, they've already lost the match - why would I stick around? So I can get zerged 50 times and earn zero Glory?
Some players *really are* that stupid - if they learnt some very simple tactics their success rate would improve - and I've tried to tell them but they don't want to listen. Why would I purposefully team with losers?
that is better said than I have been saying it. I give your post a +1.
it IS easily comparable to having a pug group in a dungeon, constantly throwing themselves a gainst a boss and failing, running out of potions, etc et al, and then saying oh if you leave though, you get punished. that's incentive to keep doing it!
If you have that issue, find a premade and run with them or don't pvp. But leaving 12 matches in a row so you can find the one with players you're ok playing with is such BS. I mean, if the other 48 players over those 12 matches were all horrible, are you really assuming that the people you're playing against are these super organized great pvp groups?
Sounds to me like you shouldn't pvp because your mentality is childish.
I agree - and I've never left once because someone was less skilled than me.
I've left because my team-mates were incompetent.
And I've left because they're not team-players - the kind that split off from the group to do their own thing whilst their team-mates are getting their butts kicked on 2.
I've even quit matches we were winning because of bad team-work, showboating and PuGstomping/spawn camping.
But I've never quit because of a bot on the team (I always wait to see whether the team can pull together and I've been in many successful 4 vs 5's).
And I've never quit because my team's losing either.
I'm sorry, but who are you to tell me what do?
I PuG precisely because it's unpredictable and you're never guaranteed a victory - I fight as best I can, keep an eye out for my team-mates and do my best to help us win - if they're just dropping into PvP for a daily or some Glory and have no intention of putting up a fight then they're no better than the Bots.
So what if the opposition were equally incompetent? Should I sit it out on the sidelines for 40 mins whilst they fight off-base without capturing anything? Should I PuG-stomp them? Spawn camp?
As annoying as a bad team is, fighting helpless opposition is equally pathetic - so yes, I'll continue to quit games and search for better ones because why should I waste my time with people who don't want to win?
Sounds to me like you've been quit on too many times - why not look at what you're doing wrong and try to figure out why that is?
You know, a lot of games I win are because I go suicide on 3 by drawing most of, if not the entire, opposing team with me, so that my teammates have a chance to cap 1 and 2. It's not always "going off on their own". There is a strategy to back capping, and a lot of times TR's can stealth through 2 and pick up 3 to gain points/stop point gain, and cause the opposition to run back to cap their own base.
There are more ways to play this game than simply the one you want. You talk about team play? Why don't YOU play how your TEAM is playing instead of demanding they do it your way, or you leave, which screws everyone else? Your the selfish one here, not the TR who watches his entire team get crushed on 2 over and over and over again, and decides to do some distraction to get people off it.
Twats like you ruin PvP, and you should be penalized for doing it.
And I bet you get some fat, easy points by doing it too eh?
Oh please. If you're watching your team get crushed at 2 and you sneak off to back-cap, how exactly is that helping your team? Ok, so you can maybe lure some of the opposition back to re-take (who'll be there in seconds since they respawn so close).
Odds are (if they're smart) you'll get one or two of them going to retake - the rest (if they're smart) will consolidate their position on two and get ready for the staggered wave of enemy respawns.
The fact is, if your team's struggling you should be there helping them - making a stealth run to 3 and capturing it for 60 seconds is getting you some free points - the only person you're helping is yourself.
Does the tactic work? Yeah. I've seen it work. Once. But many, many times players just like you have cost us the match.
Pot, meet kettle.
Yes this exactly. I read over and over again players saying they leave because the team is not playing how they think it should. Half the time the poster seems to have little idea of different strategies themselves. They leave a pug with 5 people who may all have a different idea of how to win and justify it with saying the team is incompetent, instead of being flexible and adapting.
In the current example, it is totally normal for a TR to stealth through enemy ranks and back cap- its like a standard tactic, and yet the guy is crying and leaving because of it. That is the kind of crazyiness you get when there is no leavers penalty.
He already would have Cryptic balance their game
Between rogues perma-stealth untouchable, the permanent immune rogues controls that kill you in one or two shot, and the defensive warriors who kill in three shots with their knockbacks affecting distance, it is quite logical to see people regularly leave this kind of unplayable conditions!
Cryptic pvp :
http://tugaleres.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/titanic-sink.jpg
these people are the ones typing a long drawn out synopsis in our spawn point on the reasons why the team is rubbish, while the rest of us are trying to cap points while being a man down.
Pvp is not PVE yet you attack it like a boss fight, there is no guaranteed win strategy in a node game, yes taking dominance on two nodes straight away is a very good opener especially to destroy your opposing teams moral. Many times I've been on a team where we are in single or double digits in score and the opposing teams are 500+ and we have come back to win, these imo are the best fights and the reason why I play pvp.
There is, however, a surefire way to lose it, which is to wave your wizened little e-peen around and showboat, trying to farm the other team up at the far end, ignoring the fact that they're just slipping past you, and capping the other points consistently, from the only blue player with enough still-functioning braincells to notice.
This, sadly, describes many PvP matches- and explains what people are trying to explain in their "long drawn out synopsis"*, addressed to a team composed chiefly of people like you.
* The OED defines "synopsis" as a "brief or condensed statement presenting a combined or general view of something", so you appear to be contradicting yourself, in flights of rhetorical ecstasy. Well done.
some fat, easy points? I am going to help with this post.
That person going to take enemy back node, those people are most often the 'vets' of pvp. They can stand and fight 2-3 people and hold them off quite a while before they die (30 seconds to a minute) and doesn't matter what class they are, they still pull it off. (tr's can expect kills, other classes, gf maybe. cw maybe, gwf maybe. clerics shouldn't try this at home)
That is long enough for this persons team to get the back node, and middle node, with almost no efforts on their part, just because the opponent team decided to send 3 people, to fight one person, at one node, ignoring the other two.
First and foremost, never have 3 people fight one person at a node. 2 people at most yes, but otherwise, you migh defend the node successful, might not, but all three nodes are important, not one. You give up 2 nodes, to fight 1 person for 1, and you have given your opponent team the lead, and time to organize and rush you, at your back node, with no escape, andvery close to your spawn point, to be spawn camped. (which is what happens most of the time, when your team starts, with all five of you camping the back node. You get ran over instantly, and lose the match instantly, and you deserve it.)
Doing things as this, leaves you vulnerable, and goes against your team. I dare say you are helping the opponent team win.
That being said, if all five of your people are on the center node, and you expect them to be there, you are wrong. Three nodes are in contest, and you had better be fighting for control of all of them. It is domination pvp, not lets give 2 nodes to the opponents team, and maybe fight lesser numbers, and feel better about ourselves losing the match, because we might get more kills at center.
Now, about your first part, fat juicy points for the guy going to back node? That person likely will not get the back node, because it takes 1 opponent to stop the node being taken.
To continue, that person is likely fighting 2-3 people, keeping them at bay, dodging for his life and controlling the fight in the chaos as best as he can, to give you time. To sacrifice himself for the team. He will probably getno points, while you get free caps and easy kills against lesser people. He is giving you points, not the other way around, because he is sacrificing himself so your team gets a win.
If my team is getting crushed at 2, it is probably because the opposing team has all five people at 2, and no one at 1 and 3. There is a thing of divine and conquer. Separate the enemy team. outmaneuver, overrun. That person that did this is intelligent. I recommend you watch and learn.
odds are, 1 or 2 will come. That one person of yours will stand his ground. in a 1v1 match, the person that went to their back node will likely win, because they are certain of themselves. they are the vets. 2 or 3 people will likely go.
that leaves the four of you on your team the ability to fight a lesser number, and dominate (hopefully, it depends on the members of your teams skill and ability. As a 2 man it is not common, but it has happened where 2 of us slaughtered five at once. The opponent team was horrid.
you say fact is if your team is struggling, to help them. If your team is struggling, you put your team into a position better suited to their fighting and combat. You give them an edge. You had better adapt to give your team and yourselves an advantage in combat and get a win. I.e. Separation, pushing, luring, control, all as important as killing.
does the tactic work? yes. I can garauntee by the things you have mentioned, that your team loses when they listen to you. And it loses often.
pot met kettle. Now it is attempting to teach the kettle how to be a better kettle.
PVP is ever changing, If you rely on one strategy to win every match then your going to have a bad time.
* The OED defines "Pedantic" as a "excessively concerned with minor details or rules; overscrupulous:. Well done.
Dominating 2 and keeping your own base secure will win you the match every time. Players get so distracted by capping the enemy that it clouds their judgement and frequently causes the tables to turn against them. And honestly, how many times have you stood on the enemy's base and watched them across the map capping yours at exactly the same time?
This is a shining example of the attitude of these kinds of players:
Ironically, it doesn't- having just checked the complete and current version online. However, you have already shown that you consider fact and veracity trifling details, so the confusion is understandable. Have another day.
Haha that is priceless, I'll let you think about it for a second....
Some of the comments here are still treating pvp as pve, One Domination tactic is not a sure fire get the win scenario.
while i appreciate that "the Tactic" is the best one. it isn't the be all and end all tactic to win a domination game
your argument was not to cap enemy teams back node, but then you turn around, and say that you are capping your enemies back node.
Make up your mind of what you are arguing here.
What gave you that idea? I'm usually trying to stop my team's base (or 2) getting overrun whilst there's clowns from my side trying to take the enemy's.
Oh, and as an addendum, I've lost track of how many times a team I'm on has fought a tough battle to take 2, then once they've got it, 2 of of them run off to try and take the enemy's base, two run off to try and re-take ours (which of course, has a Rogue on it thinking he's going to turn the tide of the game) leaving just me on two.
Basically, the team goes through hell to capture a point (actually, the most strategically important point on the map) and immediately sacrifices it for free to the enemy.
Yes. Some brilliant tactical thinkers in PvP here
what gave me that idea, was you stated to hold onto your back node and middle, and that is all you need, in essence ignoring the third node entirely, letting the enemy have it uncontested.
Something that if an enemy said that to me, I would keep him on payroll to keep having him as an enemy. Easy wins.
if you struggle to take node 2, and win, that means you killed most if not all on the enemies team. They are on timers, and yes, you press. you press where it hurts, and you press hard enough to break them.
If you sit on your *** at 2, then yeah, you are gonna get ran over, because you failed.
They also didn't sacrifice it for free. they already have the node, getting points on it, and forcing the enemy to adapt to suddenly one node is enemies, and the two other nodes are hevily contested.
unless you are on the team, then you are standing in the middle.. not helping your team push anywhere.
if you do things like this, you had better learn to handle yourself against many people to hold, while your team takes the nodes and comes back to help the slaughter at mid.
As per the brilliant tactical thinkers, yes. yes they are. learn from them.
I PuG'ed in a game yesterday against a strong team that had a shot at winning - sadly, their GWF was obsessed with back-capping - he got our base once (when we let him, to have the advantage at 2) whilst his team died over and over. If he'd helped them it might have swung the balance (it took a least two of us to take him down) but he couldn't cap our base when we had a defender there.
Your 'tactic' has its place but it's usually either an act of desperation or stupidity - mostly the latter.
What people do in their premades is their own business and if the strategy works for them, then great but I've lost track of the amount of 8k GS Clerics (your 'PvP vets') I've killed on my home base because they think back-capping is going to win them the game.
The only thing people are learning from this 'strategy' is how to be a bad team-player.