You're another biased scrub CW who has been spamming these forums non-stop with your QQ nerf posts the past few weeks and months. You have no clue wtf you're talking about and you're just like that GF scrub abomination who's been gloating and spamming every Rogue thread now because your incessant whining worked.
Don't even try to compare the Rogue nerfs to any other nerf in this game, including the Cleric ones. No other class including Clerics have had the VALUES of their skills completely gutted like Rogues have... TWICE. No other class have had 2 of their main Dailies completely destroyed. No other class has had their main class feature completely ruined like the Rogues are about to experience.
If you want to compare the previous huge Rogue nerf along with this upcoming one to Cleric nerfs, it would be like Hallowed Ground and Divine Armor both being nerfed to the ground with their damage resistance taken away, replaced with +15% to healing instead. If Clerics were to have their Divinity gain and AP gain nerfed by 50%, then it might come close to the Rogue nerfs. If Clerics' healing of all of their Encounters were nerfed by 25%, then it might come close to what Cryptic is trying to do with Rogues.
I could do this all day with other examples of other classes. Again, no other class has had their main class feature gutted. No other class has had 2 of their primary Dailies destroyed. No other class has had the values of their skill decreased by such a drastic amount like the Rogue has and will be.
These insanely heavy-handed nerfs are exclusive to Rogues and this will be the second time Cryptic is going to gut Rogues. PvE Rogues won't be able to recover this time, however. Cryptic devs have no clue what they're doing with this game.
I'm fine with what they did to SE last patch. It still does its job on targets that I'm tired of dealing with once I get them low enough. What they did with Lurkers and At-wills taking away stealth buildup is just stupid tho. They didnt even change numbers they completely changed the skill to make it as good as a lesser vorpal for the the cost of a daily and with a duration of what? 5 seconds? where ANY cc will still pull us out of Lurkers lol.
You're another biased scrub CW who has been spamming these forums non-stop with your QQ nerf posts the past few weeks and months. You have no clue wtf you're talking about and you're just like that GF scrub abomination who's been gloating and spamming every Rogue thread now because your incessant whining worked.
Don't even try to compare the Rogue nerfs to any other nerf in this game, including the Cleric ones. No other class including Clerics have had the VALUES of their skills completely gutted like Rogues have... TWICE. No other class have had 2 of their main Dailies completely destroyed. No other class has had their main class feature completely ruined like the Rogues are about to experience.
If you want to compare the previous huge Rogue nerf along with this upcoming one to Cleric nerfs, it would be like Hallowed Ground and Divine Armor both being nerfed to the ground with their damage resistance taken away, replaced with +15% to healing instead. If Clerics were to have their Divinity gain and AP gain nerfed by 50%, then it might come close to the Rogue nerfs. If Clerics' healing of all of their Encounters were nerfed by 25%, then it might come close to what Cryptic is trying to do with Rogues.
I could do this all day with other examples of other classes. Again, no other class has had their main class feature gutted. No other class has had 2 of their primary Dailies destroyed. No other class has had the values of their skill decreased by such a drastic amount like the Rogue has and will be.
These insanely heavy-handed nerfs are exclusive to Rogues and this will be the second time Cryptic is going to gut Rogues. PvE Rogues won't be able to recover this time, however. Cryptic devs have no clue what they're doing with this game.
So I have a question. Why is he or myself or anyone that can plainly see how broke and ridiculous the rogue class is be bias? We just call it as we see it. The sky is blue, water is wet and rogue are broken and way more powerful then the other classes. They are just fixing your class so that it is closer to the other classes and that makes for a great game. You should be like okay I admit we were way broken and overpowered and after these adjustments we still will be and on par with the other classes so its fair. I see only 1 biased group and that's the players using broken rogues.
I'm fine with what they did to SE last patch. It still does its job on targets that I'm tired of dealing with once I get them low enough. What they did with Lurkers and At-wills taking away stealth buildup is just stupid tho. They didnt even change numbers they completely changed the skill to make it as good as a lesser vorpal for the the cost of a daily and 5 seconds where ANY cc will still pull us out of Lurkers lol.
You must've forgot what they did to Duelist's Flurry AND Deadly Momentum. It wasn't only Shocking Execution that got gutted. DF and DM was gutted too, resulting in 20-25% lower overall damage in PvE. All because of PvP whiners and trolls.
You must've forgot what they did to Duelist's Flurry AND Deadly Momentum. It wasn't only Shocking Execution that got gutted. DF and DM was gutted too, resulting in 20-25% lower overall damage in PvE. All because of PvP whiners and trolls.
No I haven't forgotten, I just didn't want people to think when they read your post and you said that they gutted two of our dailies that the gutting they did to LA was in ANY way comparable to what they did with our SE.
There will still be rogues that are able to 1/2shot you, even after this nerf (with the right buold/gear/playstyle). I hope you know that, otherwise you'll have a big bad surprise. Just an advice.
Lol you act like I don't know the game or what I am up against. I do and yes after the patch they will still be great burst Dps just not as broke which is the reason for the fix. When you have a super high geared toon like myself vs others that are geared it will go back and forth ill get nuked sure but ill nuke just as much back so no worries at all.
Lol you act like I don't know the game or what I am up against. I do and yes after the patch they will still be great burst Dps just not as broke which is the reason for the fix. When you have a super high geared toon like myself vs others that are geared it will go back and forth ill get nuked sure but ill nuke just as much back so no worries at all.
No offence, but if you are stating that you aren't able to kill a rogue in 1vs1 right now, with a GF, it just make me think that actually you are missing something about knowing the game. That's why i act like that. In the end... i suppose that if you weren't able to win a fight vs a rogue 'till now, you will not be able to do it even after that nerf.
About perma stealth ok, sure it needs some kind of tweak, but at this point enough was said by many Others... there are some other ways to do that better.
TR were obviously OP, what is so hard to understand? Cleric circle stacking was OP and was nerfed and DC cried about it the same as TRs are now.
There is a difference between balance or fixing broken mechanics and gutting a class. Sure, Clerics can still heal and Rogues can still dps, but instead of just doing one thing to break the biggest issue, Cryptic applies multiple nerfs and in a very heavy handed approach.
Foundry - Fight Club? (nw-dluqbofu7)
- JailBreak (in development)
Oh, also the new Lurker's Assault had it's duration reduced from 10 seconds to something like 5. It lasts long enough for one Flurry. It's not mentioned in the patch notes, well now you know it.
Be prepared to squeal like a pig as you are getting bent over.
Seriously they took the two highest dailies nerfed them to oblivion on top of all the other nerfs already, and the devs are not even using lube or giving kisses or cuddling afterwards.
Oh, also the new Lurker's Assault had it's duration reduced from 10 seconds to something like 5. It lasts long enough for one Flurry. It's not mentioned in the patch notes, well now you know it.
just an FYI
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
you go to perfectworld.com/preview and follow the steps there
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
LA isn't up often enough for the need to be crippling. It isn't a move you can count on in PVP as it isn't up but once every few min on average at best. Can't rely On a move that to only get to use a handful of times per match.
PVE the story is different however, but we will persevere.
I really hope...
...that Stealth will stay like its on the Previewserver right now
I was asking the change to stealth.
I have read the stuff in the release notes, and now the changing of LA buff time, I was curious if there was something to balance it out (like maybe base stealth is longer or something).
I suspect the LA nerf may be a scare to get people crying nerf to worry a bit for their own class after all GFs would be the only class not nerfed to date, other than gwf who started so nerfed they had to be buffed. not saying they should but im hoping that maybe some of the less used builds get some mild buffing to make them more appealing.
This company seems to hope to play the long game with NWO they obviously had a good 6 months of content done before beta weekends, so that they could slowly release things every week while they fixed bugs and balanced pvp and probably also worked on next years releases. Im betting that we will start seeing stuff this forum is suggesting soon as the next production cycle starts. like battle clerics, player made pvp maps, ect...
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
I have read the stuff in the release notes, and now the changing of LA buff time, I was curious if there was something to balance it out (like maybe base stealth is longer or something).
I was hopg for something like they making stealth work like GF guard meter and only depleting partially with the usage of at wills/being hit and full depleting with encounters rather than deplete with time (the comparison to GF is because they only use guard meter when its struck by an attack), but then again, that wouldnt appease the nerf crying masses and i think it would be OP to some extent.
I was hopg for something like they making stealth work like GF guard meter and only depleting partially with the usage of at wills/being hit and full depleting with encounters rather than deplete with time (the comparison to GF is because they only use guard meter when its struck by an attack), but then again, that wouldnt appease the nerf crying masses and i think it would be OP to some extent.
Nope, it's not like that - that would be OP!
Go on the test server and try it out~
Wtf is a Molon Labe?
- Tiduss -
(OoS)
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borgued3Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 150Bounty Hunter
Not me, I am done... I am tired of persevering and relearning and wasting my time and money.
Every MMO in existence has nerfed classes. Usually it goes in a circle and is endless. This is nothing new. If having to adapt ruins the game for you I am afraid every MMO will eventually disappoint you.
Every MMO in existence has nerfed classes. Usually it goes in a circle and is endless. This is nothing new. If having to adapt ruins the game for you I am afraid every MMO will eventually disappoint you.
Shoddy development I say.... The good games address most "balancing" issues before ever going live, but that is something that seems to be lacking in most MMO's these days.
Every MMO in existence has nerfed classes. Usually it goes in a circle and is endless. This is nothing new. If having to adapt ruins the game for you I am afraid every MMO will eventually disappoint you.
Then the only thing this means is that MMOs as a whole have no desire to innovate, only to copy the successes that came before in an effort to make money. The reason I say that is because it's preposterous that in 2013 we still have to deal with PvE and PvP being unified and whole classes gutted in a kneejerk attempt to appease the less skilled PvPers. To say "hey our game separates PvE and PvP so we can better attain balance in both fields" would be innovation; to do what they're doing here is no different at all from any other MMO, you're correct.
Using what other MMOs do as a basis for your argument is a very flawed approach. You're basically giving a free pass to developers to just copy/paste what everyone else does because you clearly have no desire to play anything that dares to be different.
If one has to be disappointed simply because this is "just the way MMOs are and that's how it's always going to be", then I'm afraid the future for MMOs -- at least for players who don't wanna play something that's been done a thousand times before -- is not very bright.
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that other MMOs tend to be more conservative in their nerfs instead of just practically tossing a whole class in the trash without any thought or internal testing whatsoever. Name another company that grossly overreacts in this way and tosses out nerfs willy-nilly and completely destroys the viability of a class. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's just not a common way to conduct business if you wish to keep from completely pissing off your playerbase (especially your paying customers).
The saddest thing of all is that there's so many more things with this game that needs attention and their greatest priority was nerfing a class into the ground. I think that goes a long way to contribute to the anger and resentment a lot of players are feeling right now. At a time when the continued patronage of a lot of players hinged on whether this new module had enough worthwhile content to keep them interested, a kick to the junk like this is the last thing you need to be putting out there. I'm not saying this will be the patch that kills the game, but it's certainly a start.
I play a GF/GWF (yes I made my GWF BECAUSE they are super OP I realize that)
But I see all these TR forums and posts about the upcoming nerf and I really am wondering what the heck they are complaining about?
Basically the TWO nerfs are surround CoS (the throwing knives) that used to stack up to 12 available, not stacks to 8. Honestly this wont affect PVP a ton and was probably necessary as a slight nerf to the build known as "perma stealth"...
The other BIG change is that LA (a TR daily) that USED to:
- last about 10 seconds
- refill stealth meter fast
- grants 60% more crit severity
Is now
-last about 7 seconds
-grants 15% CS
-still refills stealth meter
PLEASE tell me ANY daily in this game that is even on par with how strong this daily is....
I mean its STRONGER than a PERFECT vorpal AND lasted 10 seconds?! HOW the heck is that balanced?!
It also would be one thing if like GFs had this, because they have horrible crit... But most TRs I play with have around 40+% crit so essentially that 10 second LA buff is granting a flat roughly 25% damage boost... and thats balanced?!?
Im sorry but... are you guys high? Please share another class daily that is that strong.... I think down to 15% is a LITTLE overboard... but still... compare that to other class dailies...
I think it will be a decent fix if it goes to live.
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inexgravMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
rogue nerfing cause perma build annoying PVP. invisible vs invisible wars.. create a cw and play vs perma stealth. maybe u can understand us.
And yes i can understand some TRs complaining about that nerf, not because of PvP ( i barely use LA there anyways), but because of the huge impact on PvE.
However there are other builds that can make up for that huge loss in damage, so there is nothing to complain about.
I think cryptic wanted the Stealth to be more like a starter than a stalker/surviving ability.
So i think now the best way to make use of your stealth, is to ready up your lashing blade and 20k someone with it instead of using stealth and throw tons of daggers from the void .
And yes i can understand some TRs complaining about that nerf, not because of PvP ( i barely use LA there anyways), but because of the huge impact on PvE.
However there are other builds that can make up for that huge loss in damage, so there is nothing to complain about.
*Noted, too lazy to change OP.
Yes it will impact PVE a ton, I am really hoping they go back once module 1 is out and nerf all the T1s and T2s so there are WAY less mobs on EVERYTHING...
Seems like if they made fights more legit, the PVE effect wont be that much, but right now because of the crappy add spawn system they have, where typically 1 TR is the ONLY thing on the boss most of the fight, this will be pretty big...
Im just surprised that most TRs are saying the class is dead because of a small daily nerf...
Just a hint, if your class is dead from a nerf to 1 daily... chances are it was too OP to begin with and yes, if it is truly dead maybe they need to rework the class... but from what I know, NO other class has a daily that strong and is THAT relied upon... Maybe im wrong...
Yes it will impact PVE a ton, I am really hoping they go back once module 1 is out and nerf all the T1s and T2s so there are WAY less mobs on EVERYTHING...
Seems like if they made fights more legit, the PVE effect wont be that much, but right now because of the crappy add spawn system they have, where typically 1 TR is the ONLY thing on the boss most of the fight, this will be pretty big...
Im just surprised that most TRs are saying the class is dead because of a small daily nerf...
Just a hint, if your class is dead from a nerf to 1 daily... chances are it was too OP to begin with and yes, if it is truly dead maybe they need to rework the class... but from what I know, NO other class has a daily that strong and is THAT relied upon... Maybe im wrong...
Well a TR who depend on LA to kill someone is probably a crappy TR (PvP wise).
The only true use of that daily was in PvE. I wouldn't mind it being nerfed as we have some other cool dailies that can still make our opponents suffer.
However not to fool our selves, TR's PvE out put damage will be heavily affected by that nerf. Not only because of LA but also because of the stealth consumption while using At-wills.
Comments
I'm fine with what they did to SE last patch. It still does its job on targets that I'm tired of dealing with once I get them low enough. What they did with Lurkers and At-wills taking away stealth buildup is just stupid tho. They didnt even change numbers they completely changed the skill to make it as good as a lesser vorpal for the the cost of a daily and with a duration of what? 5 seconds? where ANY cc will still pull us out of Lurkers lol.
So I have a question. Why is he or myself or anyone that can plainly see how broke and ridiculous the rogue class is be bias? We just call it as we see it. The sky is blue, water is wet and rogue are broken and way more powerful then the other classes. They are just fixing your class so that it is closer to the other classes and that makes for a great game. You should be like okay I admit we were way broken and overpowered and after these adjustments we still will be and on par with the other classes so its fair. I see only 1 biased group and that's the players using broken rogues.
You must've forgot what they did to Duelist's Flurry AND Deadly Momentum. It wasn't only Shocking Execution that got gutted. DF and DM was gutted too, resulting in 20-25% lower overall damage in PvE. All because of PvP whiners and trolls.
No I haven't forgotten, I just didn't want people to think when they read your post and you said that they gutted two of our dailies that the gutting they did to LA was in ANY way comparable to what they did with our SE.
Lol you act like I don't know the game or what I am up against. I do and yes after the patch they will still be great burst Dps just not as broke which is the reason for the fix. When you have a super high geared toon like myself vs others that are geared it will go back and forth ill get nuked sure but ill nuke just as much back so no worries at all.
No offence, but if you are stating that you aren't able to kill a rogue in 1vs1 right now, with a GF, it just make me think that actually you are missing something about knowing the game. That's why i act like that. In the end... i suppose that if you weren't able to win a fight vs a rogue 'till now, you will not be able to do it even after that nerf.
About perma stealth ok, sure it needs some kind of tweak, but at this point enough was said by many Others... there are some other ways to do that better.
There is a difference between balance or fixing broken mechanics and gutting a class. Sure, Clerics can still heal and Rogues can still dps, but instead of just doing one thing to break the biggest issue, Cryptic applies multiple nerfs and in a very heavy handed approach.
- JailBreak (in development)
i dont know why it behaves like that, but it balances out that unneeded nerf to LA and thus i sincerly hope it stays that way
Be prepared to squeal like a pig as you are getting bent over.
Seriously they took the two highest dailies nerfed them to oblivion on top of all the other nerfs already, and the devs are not even using lube or giving kisses or cuddling afterwards.
just an FYI
PVE the story is different however, but we will persevere.
- Tiduss -
(OoS)
I was asking the change to stealth.
I have read the stuff in the release notes, and now the changing of LA buff time, I was curious if there was something to balance it out (like maybe base stealth is longer or something).
This company seems to hope to play the long game with NWO they obviously had a good 6 months of content done before beta weekends, so that they could slowly release things every week while they fixed bugs and balanced pvp and probably also worked on next years releases. Im betting that we will start seeing stuff this forum is suggesting soon as the next production cycle starts. like battle clerics, player made pvp maps, ect...
I was hopg for something like they making stealth work like GF guard meter and only depleting partially with the usage of at wills/being hit and full depleting with encounters rather than deplete with time (the comparison to GF is because they only use guard meter when its struck by an attack), but then again, that wouldnt appease the nerf crying masses and i think it would be OP to some extent.
Nope, it's not like that - that would be OP!
Go on the test server and try it out~
- Tiduss -
(OoS)
yep i immagined that, but a man can dream xD
As for test server for some reason i cant access the page hucka passed on, would be nice if you guys could post what it is about here.
Shoddy development I say.... The good games address most "balancing" issues before ever going live, but that is something that seems to be lacking in most MMO's these days.
Meant to reply to Ghostravyn
Then the only thing this means is that MMOs as a whole have no desire to innovate, only to copy the successes that came before in an effort to make money. The reason I say that is because it's preposterous that in 2013 we still have to deal with PvE and PvP being unified and whole classes gutted in a kneejerk attempt to appease the less skilled PvPers. To say "hey our game separates PvE and PvP so we can better attain balance in both fields" would be innovation; to do what they're doing here is no different at all from any other MMO, you're correct.
Using what other MMOs do as a basis for your argument is a very flawed approach. You're basically giving a free pass to developers to just copy/paste what everyone else does because you clearly have no desire to play anything that dares to be different.
If one has to be disappointed simply because this is "just the way MMOs are and that's how it's always going to be", then I'm afraid the future for MMOs -- at least for players who don't wanna play something that's been done a thousand times before -- is not very bright.
But the biggest flaw in your argument is that other MMOs tend to be more conservative in their nerfs instead of just practically tossing a whole class in the trash without any thought or internal testing whatsoever. Name another company that grossly overreacts in this way and tosses out nerfs willy-nilly and completely destroys the viability of a class. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's just not a common way to conduct business if you wish to keep from completely pissing off your playerbase (especially your paying customers).
The saddest thing of all is that there's so many more things with this game that needs attention and their greatest priority was nerfing a class into the ground. I think that goes a long way to contribute to the anger and resentment a lot of players are feeling right now. At a time when the continued patronage of a lot of players hinged on whether this new module had enough worthwhile content to keep them interested, a kick to the junk like this is the last thing you need to be putting out there. I'm not saying this will be the patch that kills the game, but it's certainly a start.
But I see all these TR forums and posts about the upcoming nerf and I really am wondering what the heck they are complaining about?
Basically the TWO nerfs are surround CoS (the throwing knives) that used to stack up to 12 available, not stacks to 8. Honestly this wont affect PVP a ton and was probably necessary as a slight nerf to the build known as "perma stealth"...
The other BIG change is that LA (a TR daily) that USED to:
- last about 10 seconds
- refill stealth meter fast
- grants 60% more crit severity
Is now
-last about 7 seconds
-grants 15% CS
-still refills stealth meter
PLEASE tell me ANY daily in this game that is even on par with how strong this daily is....
I mean its STRONGER than a PERFECT vorpal AND lasted 10 seconds?! HOW the heck is that balanced?!
It also would be one thing if like GFs had this, because they have horrible crit... But most TRs I play with have around 40+% crit so essentially that 10 second LA buff is granting a flat roughly 25% damage boost... and thats balanced?!?
Im sorry but... are you guys high? Please share another class daily that is that strong.... I think down to 15% is a LITTLE overboard... but still... compare that to other class dailies...
I think it will be a decent fix if it goes to live.
And yes i can understand some TRs complaining about that nerf, not because of PvP ( i barely use LA there anyways), but because of the huge impact on PvE.
However there are other builds that can make up for that huge loss in damage, so there is nothing to complain about.
I think cryptic wanted the Stealth to be more like a starter than a stalker/surviving ability.
So i think now the best way to make use of your stealth, is to ready up your lashing blade and 20k someone with it instead of using stealth and throw tons of daggers from the void
*Noted, too lazy to change OP.
Yes it will impact PVE a ton, I am really hoping they go back once module 1 is out and nerf all the T1s and T2s so there are WAY less mobs on EVERYTHING...
Seems like if they made fights more legit, the PVE effect wont be that much, but right now because of the crappy add spawn system they have, where typically 1 TR is the ONLY thing on the boss most of the fight, this will be pretty big...
Im just surprised that most TRs are saying the class is dead because of a small daily nerf...
Just a hint, if your class is dead from a nerf to 1 daily... chances are it was too OP to begin with and yes, if it is truly dead maybe they need to rework the class... but from what I know, NO other class has a daily that strong and is THAT relied upon... Maybe im wrong...
Well a TR who depend on LA to kill someone is probably a crappy TR (PvP wise).
The only true use of that daily was in PvE. I wouldn't mind it being nerfed as we have some other cool dailies that can still make our opponents suffer.
However not to fool our selves, TR's PvE out put damage will be heavily affected by that nerf. Not only because of LA but also because of the stealth consumption while using At-wills.