i have a dc that ive stopped using after nerf; then ive made a stealth tr for pvp and a dps tr for pve and now you are destroying both with a single nerf. What should i do now, devs? I should go back to my old gwf so u can nerf once ive spent enough money on him? I should reroll a gf just to see him nerfed to the ground whenever i reach 13k gs? What about unbinding companions? I have 2 stones wasted, are u going to do something about that? Of course not, we should all keep wasting money on chars that will become useless after a couple of months. Thank you so much cryptic, you are the best.
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julianalz55Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 89Arc User
edited July 2013
If you were planning to make this changes to TR, you should had deleted it, I guess that would be easier.
and all similiar are from TR i suppose and ero, completly zero objectivity, only qq because they dont 1-shot in pvp, lol, to be honest the class that can one shot must gwf with his BIG sword not so cowardy stealthed trash with tiny daggers. Now TR will act adequately to the weapone they wear.
This amount of crying is ridiculous on a Preview shard. Do your job and test the **** changes so devs get data. While I would love for these these changes to go live as is, I suspect they will tweak Lurker's Assault a bit. Just 15% extra crit severity at level 3 is too harsh.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
The devs seem not to realize that they could have any power and skill work differently when in PvP or PvE. They could even have different sets of powers for PvP and PvE, but...no every change has to affect both PvE and PvP.
And the funny thing is: The same guys that cry that a class is overpowered in PvP when teaming with that class in PvE and facing some boss would like that the same class could do more damage or heal or whatever
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readytoredrumMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 65Arc User
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Anyone that is complaining about that the GWF should be nerfed too shows they have no idea about this game.. In fact GWF is still the weakest class.. By a decent amount.. The ONLY reason they are good in pvp is because of those tene's that's it... Without them they would be average in pvp as well.. There is a reason it's very hard to get epic dungeons as a GWF.. They just aren't needed. Nerf them? Well that's the end of the class completely..
I have always though TR class was way OP.. I have played alot of mmorpg's and I can't remember another game where the highest single DPS class gets the best movement/dodge abilities combined with best stealth abilities.. That's insane.. I totally agree they need to be nerfed.. This much idk.. But they are designed way too OP.
Nerf those **** tene enchants too please
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
edited July 2013
I don't play TRs, just GF and DC, but as a pure PvE player, I really appreciate the damage potential of TRs in dungeons. They kill the bosses - I keep them alive meanwhile...sounds fair to me. Now, if the change results in TRs being much less effective (and mind you, I haven't actually seen that in effect yet), it is going to make my job harder - boss fights will take longer - not harder or more challenging - just more tedious.
Ah, well... at least the new area and professions are interesting.
Hoping for improvements...
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited July 2013
Rogues don't need nerfing, tenebrous enchantments do.
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elainecherryMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited July 2013
Why you nerf TR that way?? - NO, dont do!!!
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discountbobMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited July 2013
So, it looks like the majority of the TR nerfs are to smack the perma-stealth build down. I get that--it's an annoying build, especially when the culprit stacks tenes, etc. However, PWE is going about this in an absolutely ludicrous fashion. Maybe only CoS should diminish the stealth bar, if that is their goal.
Something that's not been mentioned more than once (I think) is the fact that TRs will not be able to stay in stealth while performing regular at-wills in dungeons. GFs cannot currently keep aggro away from TRs, so an exposed TR has to dodge around the boss endlessly. This prevents them from doing their intended damage (by preventing DF stacks from being maintained, etc.) when they aren't in stealth.
The use of Lurker's Assault, other than the pure damage buff, helps to ensure that the TR will get to stay on the boss for those few seconds. If TRs can't stay in stealth to do their damage on the bosses due to the change in effect of at-wills on the stealth meter, then even a good use of a daily (LA) is pretty much worthless. Even without considering the massive nerf to LA's damage bonus, TRs will not be able to stay on target doing damage.
Add in the fact that LA is being nerfed to 15% crit severity ... and you have a daily that takes the longest of any other class's daily to charge, is less useful in a utility fashion than any class's available dailies, and adds paltry damage. Lurker's Assault becomes useless.
Shocking Execution is useless in PvE, Bloodbath does next to no damage and causes the player to lose control of their character, and Whirlwind of Blades does pitiful damage (less than a similar encounter power). What, then, is the point of the TR's dailies?
Yet another consideration is the inherent nerf to the GG T2 TR set. It provides an additional 5% damage while in stealth. Unfortunately, because the duration of stealth will be so low, this will mean the bonus damage does approximately ... not much.
PWE really (REALLY) needs to rethink some of these changes. If that's not readily apparent.
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ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I think by that you mean Conquerors cannot keep aggro, as in terrible GF's that have turned themselves into inferior versions of GWF.
Any decent tank has no problem taking aggro with not but the Tab ability.
Funny, because I don't see any feat in the other trees that gives this significant aggro increase that people claim non-Conquerors have. Now if you simply said terrible GF's without any emphasis on build, I would be inclined to agree with you.
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matii1509Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
"This patch is going to ruin the game for these reasons:
Reason one: Blah blah
Reason two: Valid point
Reason three: Point that majority can agree with."
I would like to add on top of many good points against stealth nerf coupled with LA nerf is that without stealth a TR would be less efficient while leveling and soloing.
ITC and Stealth are essential to us because we are squishy and need to either be stealthed or immune to damage in between dazing some targets in the pack of 5-6 stronger mobs in order to do damage and we can't dodge endlessly. Make LA an encounter then.
Personally, I think that this patch is on the PREVIEW shard, and the shard is locked at the moment, so nobody is able to test anything. So all the crying and complaining, is a knee-jerk reaction to something that hasn't happened yet (minority report syndrome).
Please try to remember, things go onto preview, for testing, they do not always go to live in the form that they were tested in.
So please try to hold in your doom and gloom, and especially the "I quit" posts, until you have had a chance to properly test the various changes, and then give constructive feedback and not sour grapes. I for one, do not want to spend my entire day having to remove posts and warn people for breaking the rules, when it is such a lovely day outside.
I think the devs are thinking this are trying to slow down gear "progression" here and not trying to limit the ability of players earning AD through the AH. You can get a brand new level 60 in full epics very easily with the seal/glory items. If you were to buy them, it also wouldn' tbe very expensive (most likely less than 100k to fill every slot with purple)
Keep in mind that there is one incredibly awesome result of this change: Bots cannot directly earn AD by farming glory. They can of course earn gold by selling glory items to vendors. That gold could then be turned into AD. The amount of AD they earn will probably be much much less though. An unfortunate side effect to this would be the devaluing of gold in terms of exchanging gold to AD by selling items bought with gold on the AH.
You explanation make sense. Kind of disappointed that if this fix go live, I will not be able to help my friends farm those PvP gears.
I don't care about Rogues.. but what about the Alchemy Gateway levelup bug? Is it fixed? Patchnotes don't mention it.
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shunterinoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
The changes on rogues would have been fine if you left LA alone. Even a slight reduction would be unnecessary but most would have accepted it. A 75% nerf seems a tad excessive. This inability to do anything other than go from one extreme to the other is becoming tiresome. Consider what happened to Shocking Execution. It wasn't improved or changed, it was removed from the game. No one uses it. If you make an ability so no one ever uses it that can't be a good thing, although hit does stop the complaining, which I guess is the main goal here.
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celantraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Silverstars, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 465
and all similiar are from TR i suppose and ero, completly zero objectivity, only qq because they dont 1-shot in pvp, lol, to be honest the class that can one shot must gwf with his BIG sword not so cowardy stealthed trash with tiny daggers. Now TR will act adequately to the weapone they wear.
Yes enjoy playing your class till they nerf it to the ground as well. Also this is not my only class...see you on the forums when said nerf is implemented.
The devs seem not to realize that they could have any power and skill work differently when in PvP or PvE. They could even have different sets of powers for PvP and PvE, but...no every change has to affect both PvE and PvP.
And the funny thing is: The same guys that cry that a class is overpowered in PvP when teaming with that class in PvE and facing some boss would like that the same class could do more damage or heal or whatever
This. If an older game like Dragon Nest can do it why can't this game...
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
Personally, I think that this patch is on the PREVIEW shard, and the shard is locked at the moment, so nobody is able to test anything. So all the crying and complaining, is a knee-jerk reaction to something that hasn't happened yet (minority report syndrome).
Please try to remember, things go onto preview, for testing, they do not always go to live in the form that they were tested in.
So please try to hold in your doom and gloom, and especially the "I quit" posts, until you have had a chance to properly test the various changes, and then give constructive feedback and not sour grapes. I for one, do not want to spend my entire day having to remove posts and warn people for breaking the rules, when it is such a lovely day outside.
Keep smiling guys..
True. But it stands without question that Rogue dps in boss fights takes a significant hit with the changes to Lurker's assault and we would like to know the reasoning behind it. The Dracolich fight is already enough of a pain with no room for errors, with the nerfs meaning:
A) Less stealth means more adds on the Rogue which further nerfs dps since you can't stay on Draco. Less stealth means you gotta time your Impossible to Catch better to escape Draco's big aoe - dodge roll does not get you out of the circle and eating the aoe is not an option.
C) The direct nerf to Lurker's means the fight takes even longer.
Further: have you tried to get a CN group on the preview shard (or for any of the harder T2 dungeons) ? Well here's a headsup, it's next to impossible. So these changes cannot be properly tested in a T2 instance before they go live. But anyone who is familiar with the class mechanics and the high-end dungeons can already anticipate the results.
Less stealth means you gotta time your Impossible to Catch better to escape Draco's big aoe - dodge roll does not get you out of the circle and eating the aoe is not an option.
unless something got change i didnt notice, you dont dodge OUT of the circle, you dodge TOWARDS the dragon
when you dodge, you prevent the ability from hitting oyu just by dodging, no matter if youre still in the area of effect or not...and when you dodge towards him youalso dont need to run back to him again
Comments
and this
and all similiar are from TR i suppose and ero, completly zero objectivity, only qq because they dont 1-shot in pvp, lol, to be honest the class that can one shot must gwf with his BIG sword not so cowardy stealthed trash with tiny daggers. Now TR will act adequately to the weapone they wear.
They were never really underpowered. People just didn't understand how to play them, and many still don't.
And the funny thing is: The same guys that cry that a class is overpowered in PvP when teaming with that class in PvE and facing some boss would like that the same class could do more damage or heal or whatever
Red
Cafè Crêpe•Control Wizard
Instead of all these nerfs, whines, whines about too many nerfs, whines about not enough nerfs etc - just pull the plug on PvP.
Whines end.
Its a win/win for Cryptic and the real (PvE) players who care bout the game.
All The Best
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I have always though TR class was way OP.. I have played alot of mmorpg's and I can't remember another game where the highest single DPS class gets the best movement/dodge abilities combined with best stealth abilities.. That's insane.. I totally agree they need to be nerfed.. This much idk.. But they are designed way too OP.
Nerf those **** tene enchants too please
Ah, well... at least the new area and professions are interesting.
Something that's not been mentioned more than once (I think) is the fact that TRs will not be able to stay in stealth while performing regular at-wills in dungeons. GFs cannot currently keep aggro away from TRs, so an exposed TR has to dodge around the boss endlessly. This prevents them from doing their intended damage (by preventing DF stacks from being maintained, etc.) when they aren't in stealth.
The use of Lurker's Assault, other than the pure damage buff, helps to ensure that the TR will get to stay on the boss for those few seconds. If TRs can't stay in stealth to do their damage on the bosses due to the change in effect of at-wills on the stealth meter, then even a good use of a daily (LA) is pretty much worthless. Even without considering the massive nerf to LA's damage bonus, TRs will not be able to stay on target doing damage.
Add in the fact that LA is being nerfed to 15% crit severity ... and you have a daily that takes the longest of any other class's daily to charge, is less useful in a utility fashion than any class's available dailies, and adds paltry damage. Lurker's Assault becomes useless.
Shocking Execution is useless in PvE, Bloodbath does next to no damage and causes the player to lose control of their character, and Whirlwind of Blades does pitiful damage (less than a similar encounter power). What, then, is the point of the TR's dailies?
Yet another consideration is the inherent nerf to the GG T2 TR set. It provides an additional 5% damage while in stealth. Unfortunately, because the duration of stealth will be so low, this will mean the bonus damage does approximately ... not much.
PWE really (REALLY) needs to rethink some of these changes. If that's not readily apparent.
I think by that you mean Conquerors cannot keep aggro, as in terrible GF's that have turned themselves into inferior versions of GWF.
Any decent tank has no problem taking aggro with not but the Tab ability.
Funny, because I don't see any feat in the other trees that gives this significant aggro increase that people claim non-Conquerors have. Now if you simply said terrible GF's without any emphasis on build, I would be inclined to agree with you.
"i lyk dis pach. is gud pach. rogue is nerf yay1"
"This patch is going to ruin the game for these reasons:
Reason one: Blah blah
Reason two: Valid point
Reason three: Point that majority can agree with."
And you know who they listen to?
/facepalm
ITC and Stealth are essential to us because we are squishy and need to either be stealthed or immune to damage in between dazing some targets in the pack of 5-6 stronger mobs in order to do damage and we can't dodge endlessly. Make LA an encounter then.
Please try to remember, things go onto preview, for testing, they do not always go to live in the form that they were tested in.
So please try to hold in your doom and gloom, and especially the "I quit" posts, until you have had a chance to properly test the various changes, and then give constructive feedback and not sour grapes. I for one, do not want to spend my entire day having to remove posts and warn people for breaking the rules, when it is such a lovely day outside.
Keep smiling guys..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
My opinions are my own, and do not represent those of Perfect World Entertainment, or Cryptic Studios
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sure,and GF conqueror? tank can't bishot in pvp -.-
You explanation make sense. Kind of disappointed that if this fix go live, I will not be able to help my friends farm those PvP gears.
Ebony (Whisperknife)
Yes enjoy playing your class till they nerf it to the ground as well. Also this is not my only class...see you on the forums when said nerf is implemented.
not everyone lives in the same place
This. If an older game like Dragon Nest can do it why can't this game...
True. But it stands without question that Rogue dps in boss fights takes a significant hit with the changes to Lurker's assault and we would like to know the reasoning behind it. The Dracolich fight is already enough of a pain with no room for errors, with the nerfs meaning:
A) Less stealth means more adds on the Rogue which further nerfs dps since you can't stay on Draco.
C) The direct nerf to Lurker's means the fight takes even longer.
Further: have you tried to get a CN group on the preview shard (or for any of the harder T2 dungeons) ? Well here's a headsup, it's next to impossible. So these changes cannot be properly tested in a T2 instance before they go live. But anyone who is familiar with the class mechanics and the high-end dungeons can already anticipate the results.
unless something got change i didnt notice, you dont dodge OUT of the circle, you dodge TOWARDS the dragon
when you dodge, you prevent the ability from hitting oyu just by dodging, no matter if youre still in the area of effect or not...and when you dodge towards him youalso dont need to run back to him again