Hi,
So Unstoppable is indeed supposed to prevent movement impairing effects from happening.
It's likely that there are a handful of speed reduction effects that can not be resisted.
Will certainly get looked into.
Does anyone recall what they were fighting when they got snared?
While we are at it, we would also greatly appreciate a confirmation that someone is working on resolving the TAB/Unstoppable Bug that renders it unusable.
lets sum it up, unstoppable:
1) does not break about half of CC effects (Prone)
2) does not work against some knock back CC
3) bugs requently disabling it in key moments
4) now does not work against Slow effects
...WTF? srsly - this isnt the skill it was desinged to be - nothing near being unstoppable. It might be different skill but defenetly not the original one.
lets sum it up, unstoppable:
1) does not break about half of CC effects (Prone)
2) does not work against some knock back CC
3) bugs requently disabling it in key moments
4) now does not work against Slow effects
...WTF? srsly - this isnt the skill it was desinged to be - nothing near being unstoppable. It might be different skill but defenetly not the original one.
Skill is just poorly named. Less Stoppable Occasionally Depending on the Situation sounds terrible.
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm always...."ALWAYS" number 1 on damage ranks in epic dungeons.
Damage doesn't matter when everyone around you die while you use 5 minutes to drain the life of elite mobs. Mobs are not killed fast enough, so often it's better to have someone who can control better.
The GWF is supposed to be good with mobs, I find it a bit peculiar that the strongest attacks are one-target based. IMO the GWF need at least one power that does major damage to foes around them or that has more drastic control effect than "not so fast". Actually, that skill would probably be better if it had stun instead of slow. Of course, that would be problematic in PvP in regards to balance.. Unless it had little to no damage, perhaps. Or if there is a certain condition that requires some skill to mange successfully. Not anything that has to do with marked targets! Unless you increase how many are marked with IBS. Well, the IBS does good damage to multiple foes if they are within that tiny range of your sword. Which is scarcely more than two.
I think that one thing could improve the usefulness of the GWF with like 70%. It's the one thing I miss. Yeah, one thing. I find the GWF rather decent if you find a style that suits you and which, of course, pairs up with the class. Oh wait, there is one more thing I miss. Stun immunity when doing crescendo.
"Roar" is a good stun, but it pushes mobs away from you and sometimes scatters them. Meaning those few seconds you get a break, are mostly spent on getting close to them again. We are talking about very small margins here, but if you have fast reflexes, it's very clear that you lose a tiny bit of DPS by scattering and pushing them away.
The range is rather small, so you have to have the mobs perfectly lined up to get maxed effect (more unstoppable) from it. I have tried it on several occasions, but the unstoppable gained from it has been about the same as when I deal damage with another encounter. (I'm a destroyer, so I get unstoppable by hitting things). Only exception is, if they are aligned up perfectly, then my meter fills instantly. Those are rare occurrences.
Even if you sacrifice DPS for more control, you still have mostly one-target stuns that doesn't deal dramatic damage. The idea of rotating three encounters that stun one target in a crowd of 15 mobs... It sounds rather dreadful. Though, perhaps I should try it. Maybe that's where the secret of the GWF lies
I have tried the sentinel build, and damage-wise I always felt the mobs were 15 levels higher than me. The life that trickled away with my attacks were those of puddle trying to tsunami the local village.
The GWF is supposed to be good with mobs, I find it a bit peculiar that the strongest attacks are one-target based. IMO the GWF need at least one power that does major damage to foes around them or that has more drastic control effect than "not so fast".
How do you mean? All the at-wills hit multiple targets, all the dailies affect or hit multiple targets. Ever tried superman jumping with Avalanche of Steel on a group of mobs? It's hilarious.
Not anything that has to do with marked targets! Unless you increase how many are marked with IBS. Well, the IBS does good damage to multiple foes if they are within that tiny range of your sword. Which is scarcely more than two.
Personally I find the way mark works for GWF to be unsatisfying. I assume the way it's supposed to work is to get the attention of the mobs that are banging on your teammate, but it a) goes away the moment the GWF is hit, and b) roaring or Come and Get it followed by some heavy hitting has a better effect of keeping my teammates alive.
"Roar" is a good stun, but it pushes mobs away from you and sometimes scatters them. Meaning those few seconds you get a break, are mostly spent on getting close to them again. We are talking about very small margins here, but if you have fast reflexes, it's very clear that you lose a tiny bit of DPS by scattering and pushing them away.
Roar never, ever leaves my bar, except maybe for Domination. It will actually increase your DPS, as you will hit a lot faster, offsetting the small damagereducton.
With Roar, Come and Get It and tactical use of Sprint, a GWF can herde the mobs exactly to the place where the CW wants them. Not to mention a well placed Roar gives you massive amounts of Determination. It also interrupts some casting animations.
I'm not sure what you do to get so little effect from it, but my GWF is Destroyer too. My tactic is to attack a group, sprint away a bit and they'll follow me neatly in a row. Easy targets.
Even if you sacrifice DPS for more control, you still have mostly one-target stuns that doesn't deal dramatic damage. The idea of rotating three encounters that stun one target in a crowd of 15 mobs... It sounds rather dreadful. Though, perhaps I should try it. Maybe that's where the secret of the GWF lies
Imo, Takedown is part of what makes the GWF a hybrid tank in relation to the GF. It peels of a mob that's killing your teammate, or prevents a mob from casting his spells. It's not used on groups of mobs, it's to takedown the most dangerous one.
I have tried the sentinel build, and damage-wise I always felt the mobs were 15 levels higher than me. The life that trickled away with my attacks were those of puddle trying to tsunami the local village.
Maybe, but you will remain standing long after everyone has fallen. Now, if that's a good thing is up to you, but your survivability just went through the roof.
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
How do you mean? All the at-wills hit multiple targets, all the dailies affect or hit multiple targets. Ever tried superman jumping with Avalanche of Steel on a group of mobs? It's hilarious.
At-wills are not the strongest attacks, I think they do half the damage of encounters or so.
I also mainly thinking encounters and at-wills with my comment, but I see that I didn't write that. You can't rely on dailies like you do encounters because they are further apart.
Avalance of Steel is too slow and risky to use. It might seem like just a few seconds flying there in the air, but that is enough to lose aggro or have newly spawned enemies take some good chunks of your teammates health. The knockdown is very short. With the right feat, Slam gives you 25% more power while it is active, which means it is the superior choice. You have more control when you are down on the ground.
Savage Advance. Can't remember if I had this in my first build. But anything that pushes enemies away and makes me have to run after them... Why would a close ranged fighter even have that?
Steel Defense gives a couple of seconds of damage immunity when doing a Daily. If you do your daily while Unstoppable, you have exactly what you want.
Too much sacrificed DPS without Weapon Master and Destroyer for those few occasions when you want to hit one target. If you manage to avoid red circles, you don't need really need that protection either.
With Roar, Come and Get It and tactical use of Sprint, a GWF can herde the mobs exactly to the place where the CW wants them. Not to mention a well placed Roar gives you massive amounts of Determination. It also interrupts some casting animations.
Do you have feats that gives you more stamina? Avoiding damage requires a lot of stamina for running to the side multiple times. I often find I have a lack of stamina.
I used Come and get it for a while too. Such a slow, tedious move. Especially if you like more fast-paced fighting. I wonder if that 3 second damage bonus for your next one attack really is better than using that time for encounters or at-wills. I also find the enemies either already gathered up around close enough so you don't need it, or they are too far apart. The range isn't very good on that encounter.
Imo, Takedown is part of what makes the GWF a hybrid tank in relation to the GF. It peels of a mob that's killing your teammate, or prevents a mob from casting his spells. It's not used on groups of mobs, it's to takedown the most dangerous one.
I don't think you understood my paragraph. Or I don't get yours. Of course it's not used against multiple enemies being a one-target power. And if it's used on the strongest one, then "strongest one" implies there are others = a group. So I don't understand what you are saying.
I'm not saying all one-target powers are bad. I'm just missing a little more crowd control. I would give up any encounter power for one that did what I mentioned in my first post. It would suck if IBS went out the window, though.
Maybe, but you will remain standing long after everyone has fallen. Now, if that's a good thing is up to you, but your survivability just went through the roof.
I'm already one of those who dies last, I'm not convinced.
The GWF has some good powers and all. But in the end they make too little impact compared to, for instance, a CW. They just need one thing to give them an edge.
Of course, that would be problematic in PvP in regards to balance.. Unless it had little to no damage, perhaps. Or if there is a certain condition that requires some skill to mange successfully.
I dont think that would be problem - GWF skills takes a LOT of time to charge(GWF is with current fighting style closest to elite mobs) and anyone with little strategic feeling already found its easy to dodge 3 encounters by well timed 3 shift skills, and those who didnt find that out - nothing can help them.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
"Roar" is a good stun, but it pushes mobs away from you and sometimes scatters them. Meaning those few seconds you get a break, are mostly spent on getting close to them again. We are talking about very small margins here, but if you have fast reflexes, it's very clear that you lose a tiny bit of DPS by scattering and pushing them away.
I dont know why some people automatically shun and exaggerate to effects of scattering mobs without looking at the overall benefit. Roar is a damage boost not loss when you consider the insane determination and AP gain. Roar is also a mitigation gain, for the same reason. Roar is an interrupt. Roar is a stun. Roar is an AoE damage encounter. Roar to a much lesser degree is also an off-the-side push. For some GWFs to forgo slotting it, thinking it is a dps loss or that it annoys other party members is a big mistake IMO. It doesnt take a few seconds to get to the scattered mobs, not even a second. It's like a 10ft push! The ONLY class you dont want to mess with its dps much is TR. But their #1 priority is Elite/Boss, and scattering them is an impossibility. If a TR is complaining about the scattering of the little guys, tell him to go take a smoke and call them back when they are really needed LOL.
Having a CW as main, with powers like Repel, Shield Pulse and Ice Storm, I can honestly say that the scatter effect of Roar is not even an issue.
Savage Advance. Can't remember if I had this in my first build. But anything that pushes enemies away and makes me have to run after them... Why would a close ranged fighter even have that?
Also have to disagree with you on that. The Push is on 1 target only, and often it dies from the damage. But its use is mainly on elites and Bosses when you dont want to aggro other adds. Again IMO Savage Advance in PvE is a damage boost vs. Crescendo. You get the entire damage upon activation instead of the few seconds animation of Crescendo. Meaning you can continue to dps when another GWF is still finishing off Crescendo. Not to mention that you can not get interrupted half way through like 50% of the time it happens with Crescendo.
Hi,
So Unstoppable is indeed supposed to prevent movement impairing effects from happening.
It's likely that there are a handful of speed reduction effects that can not be resisted.
Will certainly get looked into.
Does anyone recall what they were fighting when they got snared?
Flourish from GWF actually seems to go through Unstoppable sometimes, but seems inconsistent. Very odd.
Hi,
So Unstoppable is indeed supposed to prevent movement impairing effects from happening.
It's likely that there are a handful of speed reduction effects that can not be resisted.
Will certainly get looked into.
Does anyone recall what they were fighting when they got snared?
Ok, i don't know if it's intended to but, shocking execution from TR's is going through Unstoppable like if it was not activated. Happened to me several time. Please could you fix Unstoppable asap. Now when i activate unstoppable i have the feeling something bad is gonna happen and i'll die, it's not like it used to be, a life saver, it's a guess...
Ok, i don't know if it's intended to but, shocking execution from TR's is going through Unstoppable like if it was not activated. Happened to me several time. Please could you fix Unstoppable asap. Now when i activate unstoppable i have the feeling something bad is gonna happen and i'll die, it's not like it used to be, a life saver, it's a guess...
I thought Shocking ex was supposed to ignore defense or something.
At-wills are not the strongest attacks, I think they do half the damage of encounters or so.
I also mainly thinking encounters and at-wills with my comment, but I see that I didn't write that. You can't rely on dailies like you do encounters because they are further apart.
That's why Roar is so good, properly placed and you can have your daily up in no time.
Avalance of Steel is too slow and risky to use. It might seem like just a few seconds flying there in the air, but that is enough to lose aggro or have newly spawned enemies take some good chunks of your teammates health. The knockdown is very short. With the right feat, Slam gives you 25% more power while it is active, which means it is the superior choice. You have more control when you are down on the ground.
Agreed, Slam is powerful and Avalanche is not the best when crowded (although Steel Defense works very nicely with it) but is a great opener to land you smack in the middle of a group.
Savage Advance. Can't remember if I had this in my first build. But anything that pushes enemies away and makes me have to run after them... Why would a close ranged fighter even have that?
Too much sacrificed DPS without Weapon Master and Destroyer for those few occasions when you want to hit one target. If you manage to avoid red circles, you don't need really need that protection either.
Different playstyle I guess, I'm not for the DPS, I'm for debuffing everything I hit so my party's life is a bit easier.
Do you have feats that gives you more stamina? Avoiding damage requires a lot of stamina for running to the side multiple times. I often find I have a lack of stamina.
Strength? And damage builds determination, I reckon it's a matter of choosing what to evade and what to take. Sprinting is not always necessary for getting out of the red, sometimes it just takes two steps to the side.
I used Come and get it for a while too. Such a slow, tedious move. Especially if you like more fast-paced fighting. I wonder if that 3 second damage bonus for your next one attack really is better than using that time for encounters or at-wills. I also find the enemies either already gathered up around close enough so you don't need it, or they are too far apart. The range isn't very good on that encounter.
Range could be better, I agree, but again, you can gather a few extra mobs for Singularity to suck in. I don't care about the damage boost, I care how it gets the mobs off my cleric.
I don't think you understood my paragraph. Or I don't get yours. Of course it's not used against multiple enemies being a one-target power. And if it's used on the strongest one, then "strongest one" implies there are others = a group. So I don't understand what you are saying.
Not all mobs in a group have AoE or cast spells. I use it on those that are about to cast something nasty, and then continue to whack everything within reach. That's what I meant with 'strongest', Takedown is a great utility power with some decent damage. IMO of course.
I'm not saying all one-target powers are bad. I'm just missing a little more crowd control. I would give up any encounter power for one that did what I mentioned in my first post. It would suck if IBS went out the window, though.
Well, then this is were we really don't understand each other, because imo, we have plenty of control. It's just not as long lasting as say, a GF's Mark or a CW's Choke.
I'm already one of those who dies last, I'm not convinced.
The GWF has some good powers and all. But in the end they make too little impact compared to, for instance, a CW. They just need one thing to give them an edge.
I'd say they're fine, it's just the dungeon mechanics that require insane amounts of pushing off cliffs. CW's are far better at that obviously, but a well placed Savage Advance is a decent backup.
Then again, mileages vary and it's just my 2 cents.
I thought Shocking ex was supposed to ignore defense or something.
Yes ignores defence, but it is not supposed to ignore Damage ressistance, those are two different stats, so basicly it shouldnt ignore any resistance gained by AC and buffs (unstoppable)
Sadly, this seems par for the course - think back to the 60% damage nerf to the GWF after Closed Beta AFTER WHICH a Dev stated that they still thought the class was too strong...
If they think we're still too strong then they need to open their eyes. TR is the strongest class in the game by far.
Check the upcoming notes for TR's and say it again.
Every patch note on preview someone says that and then come live, its as if nothing has changed.
Seen this every time since beta.
It's as if people do not quite understand the margin by which TR are so dangerous and stronger than other class in endgame pvp in general, and to be honest, I am not sure I would want it to be any other way. I like a challenge and the class seems on paper pretty difficult to balance without killing it.
I mean, can you imagine if TR were not dangerous? What the heck would be the point...
I don't know if anyone else has noticed or if it was just me having a bad PVP run, but I think one of the GF knockback/knockdown skills penetrate Unstoppable. Might be a bug or just me being delusional. This wasn't just when I activated or just when it had run out. It was in the middle of it.
I don't know if anyone else has noticed or if it was just me having a bad PVP run, but I think one of the GF knockback/knockdown skills penetrate Unstoppable. Might be a bug or just me being delusional. This wasn't just when I activated or just when it had run out. It was in the middle of it.
Were you,
- knocked down = Frontline Surge (encounter)
- knocked back a fair way = Bull Charge (encounter)
- knocked up several times = Indomitable Strength (daily)
?
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wraithynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 53
Hi,
So Unstoppable is indeed supposed to prevent movement impairing effects from happening.
It's likely that there are a handful of speed reduction effects that can not be resisted.
Will certainly get looked into.
Does anyone recall what they were fighting when they got snared?
I believe the Epic pirate boss is what they had said.
I would like to comment on the upcoming nerfage. Really the only way to fix PvP without completely destroying damage for PvE, thereby making Dungeons nigh impossible is to shorten the duration of unstoppable. It is simply too huge a lifesave stacked with soulforge. It takes 3-4 to take down 1 moderately equipped GWF. And if there are 2 forget it, they are going to completely run over an entire party of other classes, even GF's. Their damage is not the problem, it's unstoppable.
I know you don't want to nerf Tenebrous enchantments because your making too much money on keys but stacking Tenebrous is the root problem when it comes to damage output. As a TR and GF I can tell you that stealth rogues are not that hard to kill, that's simply a player skill issue, now burst damage rogues are simply going to one shot you whether or not you nerf Lurker's. I don't use Lurkers in PvE for one reason, I can't see the red zones. I'm afraid nerfing GWF's and TR's into the floor in the upcoming patch may equal a huge fail for player retention. Please tread lightly and ease up. A few very small tweeks can go a long way. A 40% damage reduction will definitely cause a mass evacuation... Just some food for thought.
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
First of all. Some valid points. Some I agree with, others I do not. I realize some of it also probably has to do with what encounters you slot, type of build and general playstyle. I wont comment on it all.
I dont know why some people automatically shun and exaggerate to effects of scattering mobs without looking at the overall benefit.
I don't shun it. I am very flexible with encounters and often try out new things. I have different encounters for different bosses. I did for a period of time use it regularly, but it didn't seem to give me much determination unless, like I said, the mobs were lined up very neatly. Perhaps it's because I've been pugging mostly before I recently joined my guild, but often the mobs were just too scattered.
Nowadays, I mainly use roar when I tank. That might change if I find it more useful in guild dungeoneering.
Also have to disagree with you on that. The Push is on 1 target only, and often it dies from the damage. But its use is mainly on elites and Bosses when you dont want to aggro other adds. Again IMO Savage Advance in PvE is a damage boost vs. Crescendo. You get the entire damage upon activation instead of the few seconds animation of Crescendo. Meaning you can continue to dps when another GWF is still finishing off Crescendo. Not to mention that you can not get interrupted half way through like 50% of the time it happens with Crescendo.
It says pushes enemies (plural) in description?
Savage Ad: Roughly 3000-4000 damage
Cresendo: Roughly 6000-8000 damage
I guess time based, that should be about same damage?
Yes, crescendo can be easily interrupted. But it works if you use it right after or at the end of the elite/ boss attack animation.
Not all mobs in a group have AoE or cast spells. I use it on those that are about to cast something nasty, and then continue to whack everything within reach. That's what I meant with 'strongest', Takedown is a great utility power with some decent damage. IMO of course.
Oh! I think I know what was vague in my post. I didn't mean that one should never use any one-target powers. Ermm... Nevermind, I'm not able to explain what I meant. Language barrier. Point was that I want a multiple-target encounter that controls mobs better and that suits my playstyle.
: 33333
I use both flourish and takedown situationally.
I'd say they're fine, it's just the dungeon mechanics that require insane amounts of pushing off cliffs
Yeah, quite a few dungeons do tat 3:<
As for the famous game "Save the Cleric", I depend on damage to steal aggro. The weakest mobs die fast enough. The problem arises when there are 5+ elites about. Then takedown feels a bit helpless (some are even immune), because there are still 4 other elites just as strong. Takedown can still be good, but it would have been more useful with a multiple-target stun.
I mean, even the TR has smoke cloud. I haven't counted seconds, but I think that smoke controls longer than all powers the GWF has, except not so fast. But, imo, the smoke is more life-saving.
Don't know if forgotten about powers that control as long and well as the smoke.
Too much sacrificed DPS without Weapon Master and Destroyer for those few occasions when you want to hit one target. If you manage to avoid red circles, you don't need really need that protection either.
This was supposed to be Destroyer + Steel Blitz, btw
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dla06cMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
lets sum it up, unstoppable:
1) does not break about half of CC effects (Prone)
2) does not work against some knock back CC
3) bugs requently disabling it in key moments
4) now does not work against Slow effects
...WTF? srsly - this isnt the skill it was desinged to be - nothing near being unstoppable. It might be different skill but defenetly not the original one.
I'm thinking they should change the name of the skill to "Big Glowing Kite" or "Larger Target." They have really broke the GWF this round.
What im seeing in my Gwf alt is that Unstoppable is ending when the Temp HP ends...
its supposde to be the other way around, we are supposed to lose HP when unstoppable ends, not losing Unstoppable when Temp HP ends, even if i still have half bar of Determination left on it..
Comments
Oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, perhaps I meant Steel Grace then. Sorry, I always get those confused.
While we are at it, we would also greatly appreciate a confirmation that someone is working on resolving the TAB/Unstoppable Bug that renders it unusable.
1) does not break about half of CC effects (Prone)
2) does not work against some knock back CC
3) bugs requently disabling it in key moments
4) now does not work against Slow effects
...WTF? srsly - this isnt the skill it was desinged to be - nothing near being unstoppable. It might be different skill but defenetly not the original one.
Skill is just poorly named. Less Stoppable Occasionally Depending on the Situation sounds terrible.
Damage doesn't matter when everyone around you die while you use 5 minutes to drain the life of elite mobs. Mobs are not killed fast enough, so often it's better to have someone who can control better.
The GWF is supposed to be good with mobs, I find it a bit peculiar that the strongest attacks are one-target based. IMO the GWF need at least one power that does major damage to foes around them or that has more drastic control effect than "not so fast". Actually, that skill would probably be better if it had stun instead of slow. Of course, that would be problematic in PvP in regards to balance.. Unless it had little to no damage, perhaps. Or if there is a certain condition that requires some skill to mange successfully. Not anything that has to do with marked targets! Unless you increase how many are marked with IBS. Well, the IBS does good damage to multiple foes if they are within that tiny range of your sword. Which is scarcely more than two.
I think that one thing could improve the usefulness of the GWF with like 70%. It's the one thing I miss. Yeah, one thing. I find the GWF rather decent if you find a style that suits you and which, of course, pairs up with the class. Oh wait, there is one more thing I miss. Stun immunity when doing crescendo.
"Roar" is a good stun, but it pushes mobs away from you and sometimes scatters them. Meaning those few seconds you get a break, are mostly spent on getting close to them again. We are talking about very small margins here, but if you have fast reflexes, it's very clear that you lose a tiny bit of DPS by scattering and pushing them away.
The range is rather small, so you have to have the mobs perfectly lined up to get maxed effect (more unstoppable) from it. I have tried it on several occasions, but the unstoppable gained from it has been about the same as when I deal damage with another encounter. (I'm a destroyer, so I get unstoppable by hitting things). Only exception is, if they are aligned up perfectly, then my meter fills instantly. Those are rare occurrences.
Even if you sacrifice DPS for more control, you still have mostly one-target stuns that doesn't deal dramatic damage. The idea of rotating three encounters that stun one target in a crowd of 15 mobs... It sounds rather dreadful. Though, perhaps I should try it. Maybe that's where the secret of the GWF lies
I have tried the sentinel build, and damage-wise I always felt the mobs were 15 levels higher than me. The life that trickled away with my attacks were those of puddle trying to tsunami the local village.
How do you mean? All the at-wills hit multiple targets, all the dailies affect or hit multiple targets. Ever tried superman jumping with Avalanche of Steel on a group of mobs? It's hilarious.
Personally I find the way mark works for GWF to be unsatisfying. I assume the way it's supposed to work is to get the attention of the mobs that are banging on your teammate, but it a) goes away the moment the GWF is hit, and b) roaring or Come and Get it followed by some heavy hitting has a better effect of keeping my teammates alive.
Steel Defense gives a couple of seconds of damage immunity when doing a Daily. If you do your daily while Unstoppable, you have exactly what you want.
Roar never, ever leaves my bar, except maybe for Domination. It will actually increase your DPS, as you will hit a lot faster, offsetting the small damagereducton.
With Roar, Come and Get It and tactical use of Sprint, a GWF can herde the mobs exactly to the place where the CW wants them. Not to mention a well placed Roar gives you massive amounts of Determination. It also interrupts some casting animations.
I'm not sure what you do to get so little effect from it, but my GWF is Destroyer too. My tactic is to attack a group, sprint away a bit and they'll follow me neatly in a row. Easy targets.
Imo, Takedown is part of what makes the GWF a hybrid tank in relation to the GF. It peels of a mob that's killing your teammate, or prevents a mob from casting his spells. It's not used on groups of mobs, it's to takedown the most dangerous one.
Maybe, but you will remain standing long after everyone has fallen. Now, if that's a good thing is up to you, but your survivability just went through the roof.
At-wills are not the strongest attacks, I think they do half the damage of encounters or so.
I also mainly thinking encounters and at-wills with my comment, but I see that I didn't write that. You can't rely on dailies like you do encounters because they are further apart.
Avalance of Steel is too slow and risky to use. It might seem like just a few seconds flying there in the air, but that is enough to lose aggro or have newly spawned enemies take some good chunks of your teammates health. The knockdown is very short. With the right feat, Slam gives you 25% more power while it is active, which means it is the superior choice. You have more control when you are down on the ground.
Savage Advance. Can't remember if I had this in my first build. But anything that pushes enemies away and makes me have to run after them... Why would a close ranged fighter even have that?
Too much sacrificed DPS without Weapon Master and Destroyer for those few occasions when you want to hit one target. If you manage to avoid red circles, you don't need really need that protection either.
Do you have feats that gives you more stamina? Avoiding damage requires a lot of stamina for running to the side multiple times. I often find I have a lack of stamina.
I used Come and get it for a while too. Such a slow, tedious move. Especially if you like more fast-paced fighting. I wonder if that 3 second damage bonus for your next one attack really is better than using that time for encounters or at-wills. I also find the enemies either already gathered up around close enough so you don't need it, or they are too far apart. The range isn't very good on that encounter.
I don't think you understood my paragraph. Or I don't get yours. Of course it's not used against multiple enemies being a one-target power. And if it's used on the strongest one, then "strongest one" implies there are others = a group. So I don't understand what you are saying.
I'm not saying all one-target powers are bad. I'm just missing a little more crowd control. I would give up any encounter power for one that did what I mentioned in my first post. It would suck if IBS went out the window, though.
I'm already one of those who dies last, I'm not convinced.
The GWF has some good powers and all. But in the end they make too little impact compared to, for instance, a CW. They just need one thing to give them an edge.
I dont think that would be problem - GWF skills takes a LOT of time to charge(GWF is with current fighting style closest to elite mobs) and anyone with little strategic feeling already found its easy to dodge 3 encounters by well timed 3 shift skills, and those who didnt find that out - nothing can help them.
I dont know why some people automatically shun and exaggerate to effects of scattering mobs without looking at the overall benefit. Roar is a damage boost not loss when you consider the insane determination and AP gain. Roar is also a mitigation gain, for the same reason. Roar is an interrupt. Roar is a stun. Roar is an AoE damage encounter. Roar to a much lesser degree is also an off-the-side push. For some GWFs to forgo slotting it, thinking it is a dps loss or that it annoys other party members is a big mistake IMO. It doesnt take a few seconds to get to the scattered mobs, not even a second. It's like a 10ft push! The ONLY class you dont want to mess with its dps much is TR. But their #1 priority is Elite/Boss, and scattering them is an impossibility. If a TR is complaining about the scattering of the little guys, tell him to go take a smoke and call them back when they are really needed LOL.
Having a CW as main, with powers like Repel, Shield Pulse and Ice Storm, I can honestly say that the scatter effect of Roar is not even an issue.
Also have to disagree with you on that. The Push is on 1 target only, and often it dies from the damage. But its use is mainly on elites and Bosses when you dont want to aggro other adds. Again IMO Savage Advance in PvE is a damage boost vs. Crescendo. You get the entire damage upon activation instead of the few seconds animation of Crescendo. Meaning you can continue to dps when another GWF is still finishing off Crescendo. Not to mention that you can not get interrupted half way through like 50% of the time it happens with Crescendo.
If you have this feat, that means you have lost out on Powerful Challenge, which is a much bigger DPS boost.
Flourish from GWF actually seems to go through Unstoppable sometimes, but seems inconsistent. Very odd.
Ok, i don't know if it's intended to but, shocking execution from TR's is going through Unstoppable like if it was not activated. Happened to me several time. Please could you fix Unstoppable asap. Now when i activate unstoppable i have the feeling something bad is gonna happen and i'll die, it's not like it used to be, a life saver, it's a guess...
I've noticed this too. Maybe it has something to do with the Instigator feat that adds extra stun to Flourish?
I thought Shocking ex was supposed to ignore defense or something.
That's why Roar is so good, properly placed and you can have your daily up in no time.
Agreed, Slam is powerful and Avalanche is not the best when crowded (although Steel Defense works very nicely with it) but is a great opener to land you smack in the middle of a group.
Because it peels all the mobs off your cleric?
Different playstyle I guess, I'm not for the DPS, I'm for debuffing everything I hit so my party's life is a bit easier.
Strength? And damage builds determination, I reckon it's a matter of choosing what to evade and what to take. Sprinting is not always necessary for getting out of the red, sometimes it just takes two steps to the side.
Range could be better, I agree, but again, you can gather a few extra mobs for Singularity to suck in. I don't care about the damage boost, I care how it gets the mobs off my cleric.
Not all mobs in a group have AoE or cast spells. I use it on those that are about to cast something nasty, and then continue to whack everything within reach. That's what I meant with 'strongest', Takedown is a great utility power with some decent damage. IMO of course.
Well, then this is were we really don't understand each other, because imo, we have plenty of control. It's just not as long lasting as say, a GF's Mark or a CW's Choke.
I'd say they're fine, it's just the dungeon mechanics that require insane amounts of pushing off cliffs. CW's are far better at that obviously, but a well placed Savage Advance is a decent backup.
Then again, mileages vary and it's just my 2 cents.
Yes ignores defence, but it is not supposed to ignore Damage ressistance, those are two different stats, so basicly it shouldnt ignore any resistance gained by AC and buffs (unstoppable)
If they think we're still too strong then they need to open their eyes. TR is the strongest class in the game by far.
Check the upcoming notes for TR's and say it again.
Have you seen new patch notes? Not for long.
Every patch note on preview someone says that and then come live, its as if nothing has changed.
Seen this every time since beta.
It's as if people do not quite understand the margin by which TR are so dangerous and stronger than other class in endgame pvp in general, and to be honest, I am not sure I would want it to be any other way. I like a challenge and the class seems on paper pretty difficult to balance without killing it.
I mean, can you imagine if TR were not dangerous? What the heck would be the point...
But now we're totally off-topic...
Were you,
- knocked down = Frontline Surge (encounter)
- knocked back a fair way = Bull Charge (encounter)
- knocked up several times = Indomitable Strength (daily)
?
I believe the Epic pirate boss is what they had said.
I would like to comment on the upcoming nerfage. Really the only way to fix PvP without completely destroying damage for PvE, thereby making Dungeons nigh impossible is to shorten the duration of unstoppable. It is simply too huge a lifesave stacked with soulforge. It takes 3-4 to take down 1 moderately equipped GWF. And if there are 2 forget it, they are going to completely run over an entire party of other classes, even GF's. Their damage is not the problem, it's unstoppable.
I know you don't want to nerf Tenebrous enchantments because your making too much money on keys but stacking Tenebrous is the root problem when it comes to damage output. As a TR and GF I can tell you that stealth rogues are not that hard to kill, that's simply a player skill issue, now burst damage rogues are simply going to one shot you whether or not you nerf Lurker's. I don't use Lurkers in PvE for one reason, I can't see the red zones. I'm afraid nerfing GWF's and TR's into the floor in the upcoming patch may equal a huge fail for player retention. Please tread lightly and ease up. A few very small tweeks can go a long way. A 40% damage reduction will definitely cause a mass evacuation... Just some food for thought.
I don't shun it. I am very flexible with encounters and often try out new things. I have different encounters for different bosses. I did for a period of time use it regularly, but it didn't seem to give me much determination unless, like I said, the mobs were lined up very neatly. Perhaps it's because I've been pugging mostly before I recently joined my guild, but often the mobs were just too scattered.
Nowadays, I mainly use roar when I tank. That might change if I find it more useful in guild dungeoneering.
It says pushes enemies (plural) in description?
Savage Ad: Roughly 3000-4000 damage
Cresendo: Roughly 6000-8000 damage
I guess time based, that should be about same damage?
Yes, crescendo can be easily interrupted. But it works if you use it right after or at the end of the elite/ boss attack animation.
Oh! I think I know what was vague in my post. I didn't mean that one should never use any one-target powers. Ermm... Nevermind, I'm not able to explain what I meant. Language barrier. Point was that I want a multiple-target encounter that controls mobs better and that suits my playstyle.
: 33333
I use both flourish and takedown situationally.
Yeah, quite a few dungeons do tat 3:<
As for the famous game "Save the Cleric", I depend on damage to steal aggro. The weakest mobs die fast enough. The problem arises when there are 5+ elites about. Then takedown feels a bit helpless (some are even immune), because there are still 4 other elites just as strong. Takedown can still be good, but it would have been more useful with a multiple-target stun.
I mean, even the TR has smoke cloud. I haven't counted seconds, but I think that smoke controls longer than all powers the GWF has, except not so fast. But, imo, the smoke is more life-saving.
Don't know if forgotten about powers that control as long and well as the smoke.
This was supposed to be Destroyer + Steel Blitz, btw
I'm thinking they should change the name of the skill to "Big Glowing Kite" or "Larger Target." They have really broke the GWF this round.
its supposde to be the other way around, we are supposed to lose HP when unstoppable ends, not losing Unstoppable when Temp HP ends, even if i still have half bar of Determination left on it..
They are the most OP class especially after patch. Glad to be of service.