hmm ive got my sentinel geared and tried many different encounter selections.
I must conclude GWF cant tank for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. 25% threat on slam? its like raising it by 25% damage, it still wont pull threat from a CW. their singularity does over 4k to "everything". same goes for allt he other +threat. Its just like replacing it with +damage, it wont make any difference considering our damage is lower as a sentinel anyway.
The only way i managed to tank (in spider/spellplague etc) is if NO-ONE attacks anything im trying to tank. Our 5 mob limit on roar (daring shout doesnt seem to produce much agro at all), and other AOE abilities, make GWF horribly ineficient to tank in epic dungeons. I just use him for PvP or foundry now.
On my CW his Conduit of Ice encounter does more damage than slam does, and crits/procs weapon enchants/class features.
Bumpity bump! Just wanted to see if any experienced sentinel wanted to add anything since it's been nearly a month after balance patch came out. I am considering cleaning off the cobwebs on my 2nd gwf that is only used for daily ad and leadership and making it Sentinel. I still love my human gwf as Destro atm and all my time and resources has been spent just on him. Going to try some completely different ideas from what I mentioned earlier. I still believe have to try and find the sweet spot to keep up decent dps whilst using the sentinel feats. I'm going to have to really look into each carefully and test one thing at a time and different combinations this time.
An awesome thankyou to Freehugs9 that I intend to take advantage of his great findings regarding GWF damage mitigation and stats that I have some great plans ahead of me to utilize for my build.
I think i'm gonna try it with a dps gear (it's easy to cap arm pen and get >40% crit) and all feat/passive for deflect (could get a nice 40% deflect).
With Powerfull challenge (+15% vs marked foes) to increase dps and taking back aggro :cool:
No matter what I try, I still end up going back to Destro.
yeah I'm not wanting to miss out on destro, but I have a Half orc gwf still sitting around doing leadership and prayer every day
Though the issue is I've spent alot of my time and resources with my human for destro build and don't really want to change him to Sentinel, which is why I want to switch Orca from Instigator to Sentinel, but miss out on nice human bonuses for sentinel. I'm sure I can work around that minor problem with adjustments.
0
realboMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Hate to burst your bubble, but there is no such thing as off tank in this game. Current dungeons either need a tank or no tank at all. Speccing as "off tank" is counter productive. You are either wasting that spot for an actual tank or another dps.
Yes GF which I've stated before are the true tanks, but GWF can certainly be and should be offtanks plus dps if played right.
Edit: Just an update I was lucky to just finish t2 gg dungeon playing as "tryhard tank" with gf kiting adds and bringing in close to boss and rest of group whilst cw keeping singularity up, whilst I was using both single target and aoe target powers with survival class features standing in cleric circle..avoid red sometimes when I needed to..move to left or right a little to get my slam in range of adds on the outside. Avoid poison on ground when boss split and all of group keeping on my feet made it easy with that part.
Was lucky that Duelist Scale dropped from boss and won that for my other gwf that's respecced from Instigator to Sentinel and bought 2 more duelist pieces from gg merchant with my human gwf that's destro specced. Just need to save 42 more coins and buy the bracers to get my Sentinel gwf full pvp set. Very awesome to have 1 gf (tank), 1 tr, 1 cw, 1 dc and 1 gwf (tryhard tank) representing the victory.
Well im still playing my GWF as sentinel, he has 6k power 2x titan/vigil. about 2.3k crit and capped ArP, greater lightning
He does okay as a tank now, but there are specific things you must do, also it really helps if you get ahead of CWs, so knowing what they will do ahead of time makes it possible to tank, if they initiate first, you wont be able to keep agro.
Also there is no way in hell you are going to get agro from a TR from a single target. unless you have plenty of time to go at it first. I could post my build/spec, and methods but perhaps later in the future.
Oh and i run CN and other T2 regularly as my GWF sentinel with no problems, infact CN is probably the best place for a sentinel. In comparison to our usefulness in other dungeons.
An awesome thankyou to Freehugs9 that I intend to take advantage of his great findings regarding GWF damage mitigation and stats that I have some great plans ahead of me to utilize for my build.
Yay! Trying stuff is fun.
My question is, can a Sentinel with full DPS gear hold agro and still mitigate enough damage?
Yeah I"m not saying Destro wouldn't be bad..I mean I have done it with destro well and had 1000 life steal with some gear I have in bank plus my best total defensive-dps set of gear gives me about 2500-2750 atm. I"ve already stated that I have 2 gwf which you know of Copticone because we're in the same guild and I want to try something different on my half orc I don't play instead of instigator. I've already tested sentinel since day one of the balance patch for a week and then I respecced back to Destro again as I tested it myself with aggro being an issue.
Though back then I had way too much defense with using 2 piece Scrappers and 2 piece Titans or 2 piece Vigilant and 2 piece Titans before I found out this info that Freehugs has found. It would obviously free up more stats for dps. I'm gonna give it a go no matter what people say and compare it to what I already know about Destro. I've been playing a gwf since end of April I've given both Instigator and Destro equal time so I have a fairly good knowledge of playing them atm. I'm not scared to turn my instigator orc into a pve and pvp gwf all rolled into one with sentinel. Anyway you'll probably end up being right, but I'm going to do it anyway
Well im still playing my GWF as sentinel, he has 6k power 2x titan/vigil. about 2.3k crit and capped ArP, greater lightning
He does okay as a tank now, but there are specific things you must do, also it really helps if you get ahead of CWs, so knowing what they will do ahead of time makes it possible to tank, if they initiate first, you wont be able to keep agro.
Also there is no way in hell you are going to get agro from a TR from a single target. unless you have plenty of time to go at it first. I could post my build/spec, and methods but perhaps later in the future.
Oh and i run CN and other T2 regularly as my GWF sentinel with no problems, infact CN is probably the best place for a sentinel. In comparison to our usefulness in other dungeons.
Thankyou for that feedback Grimah. I have thought about testing greater lightning with sentinel before, but I couldn't afford it just had a lesser which isn't useful at all. I did have Reaver weapon with lifedrinker, but I think it wasn't that great. Need to have the extra dps.
Also on another note: I've just made some major changes to my experimental build with information..it's nowhere near ready though once I get solid testing done.
its a must need for tanking, it will help you hold agro because it procs twice with a wms, also in dungeons such as spider/ spellplague etc, when youa re spamming your wms, it will hit any newly spawned adds and make them come into range of your attack, giving you an advantage to hold those adds on you, rather than having a panicing wizard or cleric use a knockback, (a shield bump can do around 9k crit) if they do that, you will be running around like crazy trying to do enough damage to bring them back under your control.
About mitigation, personally i think you should aim for the minimum required, around 2600ish defense, 1k deflect. get a decent amount of regeneration. your deflection passives work great, and you will still be able to tank fine, due to your huge deflect. and +defense effectiveness feats and unstoppable. then get as much damage as you can.
With my dps gear I can get about 2600 defense, if i remember I'm sitting on 581 regen with that gear also and about 781 deflect with that too. That's not Scrappers or Titans. I'll have to look at the 2 piece of duelists and see what different numbers I can get. I also have minimum of 1k lifesteal. Do you have lifesteal Grimah?
nope i dont need it, but it is a viable choice if you can get it to 10%. however if you get more lifesteal, you are losing other stats, you could try working your way around getting lifesteal without sacfricing too much of others. maybe i shall try it myself, if i can find someway to get my lifesteal to 1400.....
my other issue is that rogues also have lifesteal, well most of them. so they will be generating that threat + more damage. its still going to be troubling to get that agro in single target, however it may help in aoe situations, and getting things off clerics.
I have 1477 Life Steal (10.5%) and it is working great for me. It is actually a DPS boost. It allows me to stay on targets, even in red circles, instead of heaving to sprint out or kite. Of course it is at the cost of other defensive stats, but I really never find myself in a situation where I needed more mitigation. I often slot Roar and Daring Shout at the same time, which gives me plenty of mitigation from the DS and Unstoppable. But I think Life Steal works better with a dps build since the more damage you do, the more heals you're getting. With a high mitigation build, I think Regen works well.
Yeah I"m thinking that regen would work better with sentinel high mitigation build too..lifesteal definitely benefit from max dps build. Well I"m around 581 regen atm..you're sitting on 780+ regen Grimah?
Curious as to how this is working in PvE for ya? I've ran my GWF as Sentinel in PvP with awesome success. Currently using ExtinctioN's Instigator PvE DPS build. I destroy damage meters as that build, and it really is quite a bit of fun. I have better gear for my Sentinel setup though, so I was considering speccing back to it as a PvE version.
What is it like doing dungeons? I was thinking it might be easier to gear up my DPS set by running dungeons as Sentinel spec, being that I could help the weaker players in my pug runs by holding some aggro/helping control adds during boss fights a bit more.
I am holding off because I don't want to be useless in groups when my DPS isn't <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> crazy face like it is now, and get kicked or have folks complain that I'm a terrible GWF because I am not top of the DPS charts anymore. How do people like running with you? Are dungeons still fun? How gimped is your DPS?
Two notations: Vigilant set has 2 arm pieces. Reinforced armguards provide an extra 20 stats from normal.
2. 4 manning the bits of CN that you can prior to total pug collapse. (ie. more then 2 people.) With a non-dps sword and a non-threat build, I kept most of the agro of the mobs while still keeping a reasonably high damage.
Tanked Dread vault as well prior to getting the dps sword, and I was 1.8million damage over the 2 rogues.
Due to the current lag, I can't keep dpsing straight now. Even ran a pvp match and I still had to laugh when I watch my knockdown activate late every time. My animation completes, the other gwf finishes turning around and then takes out half my life. (yay tene! I don't use tene.) Makes sprinting away impossible too. Kind of like the invisible red circle.
Curious as to how this is working in PvE for ya? I've ran my GWF as Sentinel in PvP with awesome success. Currently using ExtinctioN's Instigator PvE DPS build. I destroy damage meters as that build, and it really is quite a bit of fun. I have better gear for my Sentinel setup though, so I was considering speccing back to it as a PvE version.
What is it like doing dungeons? I was thinking it might be easier to gear up my DPS set by running dungeons as Sentinel spec, being that I could help the weaker players in my pug runs by holding some aggro/helping control adds during boss fights a bit more.
I am holding off because I don't want to be useless in groups when my DPS isn't <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> crazy face like it is now, and get kicked or have folks complain that I'm a terrible GWF because I am not top of the DPS charts anymore. How do people like running with you? Are dungeons still fun? How gimped is your DPS?
at full rank 8s, its pretty gimpy damage. Even when i switch out to avatar, steel blitz.
But i dont pug, usually go with people i know who are good at what they do, its just rogues doing stupidly higher damage. in pugs my damage is fine though...
Curious as to how this is working in PvE for ya? I've ran my GWF as Sentinel in PvP with awesome success. Currently using ExtinctioN's Instigator PvE DPS build. I destroy damage meters as that build, and it really is quite a bit of fun. I have better gear for my Sentinel setup though, so I was considering speccing back to it as a PvE version.
What is it like doing dungeons? I was thinking it might be easier to gear up my DPS set by running dungeons as Sentinel spec, being that I could help the weaker players in my pug runs by holding some aggro/helping control adds during boss fights a bit more.
I am holding off because I don't want to be useless in groups when my DPS isn't <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> crazy face like it is now, and get kicked or have folks complain that I'm a terrible GWF because I am not top of the DPS charts anymore. How do people like running with you? Are dungeons still fun? How gimped is your DPS?
Yeah sorry late reply just keep sticking with your instigator atm. I actually am playing a third gwf as we speak about lvl 27 now and it's human and I created better ability score especially with con this time. This compared to my other 2 that had lower con scores with high str and dex I want the best min-max I can get as a sentinel build with the 3 extra heroic feats. I chose human with 16 str, 17 con, 14 dex, 11 int, 9 wis and 11 cha..so at lvl 60 will be at 22 str, 23 con, 16 dex, 13 int, 11 wis and 13 cha without fire buff. I apologise for the setback..please be patient and I'll provide details as soon as I can. I would also like to experience levelling up a gwf as a sentinel build to see how it fares against my other 2 that I levelled up with Instigator and Destro.
Two notations: Vigilant set has 2 arm pieces. Reinforced armguards provide an extra 20 stats from normal.
2. 4 manning the bits of CN that you can prior to total pug collapse. (ie. more then 2 people.) With a non-dps sword and a non-threat build, I kept most of the agro of the mobs while still keeping a reasonably high damage.
Tanked Dread vault as well prior to getting the dps sword, and I was 1.8million damage over the 2 rogues.
Due to the current lag, I can't keep dpsing straight now. Even ran a pvp match and I still had to laugh when I watch my knockdown activate late every time. My animation completes, the other gwf finishes turning around and then takes out half my life. (yay tene! I don't use tene.) Makes sprinting away impossible too. Kind of like the invisible red circle.
Yes I have the Reinforced armguards already on my main and will get them again for my new one.
So I decided to swap specs and give it a go. What I found was basically it helped with pugging because it gave the whole group some wiggle room as far as making mistakes etc. With a Sentinel setup, if the group messed up badly I was able to hold things down with my stupid OP tankiness long enough for them to recover and avoid wipes.
Which do I feel is better overall.. hmm, I don't know honestly. With Instigator I can put up some wicked DPS stats for sure, but if I make many mistakes and take damage I explode. It's a tradeoff for sure. Like mentioned, I can't pull aggro from a rogue or gf on single target but I had no trouble at all taking aggro from adds like a boss. I feel like I was able to take some pressure off CWs who weren't as skilled by helping them gather mobs to toss over ledges.
I did almost feel like dead weight when it came time to DPS down packs of stuff though, I'll admit.. even when swapping dps gear in and dps powers.
That said, I got my ancient sword and knot by running CN over and over as a sentinel yesterday, so I can't complain. Now I have to swap back to Instigator and see how my numbers are. :O
Comments
I must conclude GWF cant tank for <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. 25% threat on slam? its like raising it by 25% damage, it still wont pull threat from a CW. their singularity does over 4k to "everything". same goes for allt he other +threat. Its just like replacing it with +damage, it wont make any difference considering our damage is lower as a sentinel anyway.
The only way i managed to tank (in spider/spellplague etc) is if NO-ONE attacks anything im trying to tank. Our 5 mob limit on roar (daring shout doesnt seem to produce much agro at all), and other AOE abilities, make GWF horribly ineficient to tank in epic dungeons. I just use him for PvP or foundry now.
On my CW his Conduit of Ice encounter does more damage than slam does, and crits/procs weapon enchants/class features.
Needs serious reworking.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
An awesome thankyou to Freehugs9 that I intend to take advantage of his great findings regarding GWF damage mitigation and stats that I have some great plans ahead of me to utilize for my build.
With Powerfull challenge (+15% vs marked foes) to increase dps and taking back aggro :cool:
yeah I'm not wanting to miss out on destro, but I have a Half orc gwf still sitting around doing leadership and prayer every day
Though the issue is I've spent alot of my time and resources with my human for destro build and don't really want to change him to Sentinel, which is why I want to switch Orca from Instigator to Sentinel, but miss out on nice human bonuses for sentinel. I'm sure I can work around that minor problem with adjustments.
Yes GF which I've stated before are the true tanks, but GWF can certainly be and should be offtanks plus dps if played right.
Edit: Just an update I was lucky to just finish t2 gg dungeon playing as "tryhard tank" with gf kiting adds and bringing in close to boss and rest of group whilst cw keeping singularity up, whilst I was using both single target and aoe target powers with survival class features standing in cleric circle..avoid red sometimes when I needed to..move to left or right a little to get my slam in range of adds on the outside. Avoid poison on ground when boss split and all of group keeping on my feet made it easy with that part.
Was lucky that Duelist Scale dropped from boss and won that for my other gwf that's respecced from Instigator to Sentinel and bought 2 more duelist pieces from gg merchant with my human gwf that's destro specced. Just need to save 42 more coins and buy the bracers to get my Sentinel gwf full pvp set. Very awesome to have 1 gf (tank), 1 tr, 1 cw, 1 dc and 1 gwf (tryhard tank) representing the victory.
He does okay as a tank now, but there are specific things you must do, also it really helps if you get ahead of CWs, so knowing what they will do ahead of time makes it possible to tank, if they initiate first, you wont be able to keep agro.
Also there is no way in hell you are going to get agro from a TR from a single target. unless you have plenty of time to go at it first. I could post my build/spec, and methods but perhaps later in the future.
Oh and i run CN and other T2 regularly as my GWF sentinel with no problems, infact CN is probably the best place for a sentinel. In comparison to our usefulness in other dungeons.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Yay! Trying stuff is fun.
My question is, can a Sentinel with full DPS gear hold agro and still mitigate enough damage?
I think a Destro with a little more defensive gear plus 10% life steal would hold better aggro than a Sent in dps gear.
Though back then I had way too much defense with using 2 piece Scrappers and 2 piece Titans or 2 piece Vigilant and 2 piece Titans before I found out this info that Freehugs has found. It would obviously free up more stats for dps. I'm gonna give it a go no matter what people say and compare it to what I already know about Destro. I've been playing a gwf since end of April I've given both Instigator and Destro equal time so I have a fairly good knowledge of playing them atm. I'm not scared to turn my instigator orc into a pve and pvp gwf all rolled into one with sentinel. Anyway you'll probably end up being right, but I'm going to do it anyway
Thankyou for that feedback Grimah. I have thought about testing greater lightning with sentinel before, but I couldn't afford it just had a lesser which isn't useful at all. I did have Reaver weapon with lifedrinker, but I think it wasn't that great. Need to have the extra dps.
Also on another note: I've just made some major changes to my experimental build with information..it's nowhere near ready though once I get solid testing done.
About mitigation, personally i think you should aim for the minimum required, around 2600ish defense, 1k deflect. get a decent amount of regeneration. your deflection passives work great, and you will still be able to tank fine, due to your huge deflect. and +defense effectiveness feats and unstoppable. then get as much damage as you can.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
my other issue is that rogues also have lifesteal, well most of them. so they will be generating that threat + more damage. its still going to be troubling to get that agro in single target, however it may help in aoe situations, and getting things off clerics.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
What is it like doing dungeons? I was thinking it might be easier to gear up my DPS set by running dungeons as Sentinel spec, being that I could help the weaker players in my pug runs by holding some aggro/helping control adds during boss fights a bit more.
I am holding off because I don't want to be useless in groups when my DPS isn't <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> crazy face like it is now, and get kicked or have folks complain that I'm a terrible GWF because I am not top of the DPS charts anymore. How do people like running with you? Are dungeons still fun? How gimped is your DPS?
2. 4 manning the bits of CN that you can prior to total pug collapse. (ie. more then 2 people.) With a non-dps sword and a non-threat build, I kept most of the agro of the mobs while still keeping a reasonably high damage.
Tanked Dread vault as well prior to getting the dps sword, and I was 1.8million damage over the 2 rogues.
Due to the current lag, I can't keep dpsing straight now. Even ran a pvp match and I still had to laugh when I watch my knockdown activate late every time. My animation completes, the other gwf finishes turning around and then takes out half my life. (yay tene! I don't use tene.) Makes sprinting away impossible too. Kind of like the invisible red circle.
at full rank 8s, its pretty gimpy damage. Even when i switch out to avatar, steel blitz.
But i dont pug, usually go with people i know who are good at what they do, its just rogues doing stupidly higher damage. in pugs my damage is fine though...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?404481-Grimah-s-PvE-Sentinel-build
wrote a bit about dungeon stuff there.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Yeah sorry late reply just keep sticking with your instigator atm. I actually am playing a third gwf as we speak about lvl 27 now and it's human and I created better ability score especially with con this time. This compared to my other 2 that had lower con scores with high str and dex I want the best min-max I can get as a sentinel build with the 3 extra heroic feats. I chose human with 16 str, 17 con, 14 dex, 11 int, 9 wis and 11 cha..so at lvl 60 will be at 22 str, 23 con, 16 dex, 13 int, 11 wis and 13 cha without fire buff. I apologise for the setback..please be patient and I'll provide details as soon as I can. I would also like to experience levelling up a gwf as a sentinel build to see how it fares against my other 2 that I levelled up with Instigator and Destro.
Yes I have the Reinforced armguards already on my main and will get them again for my new one.
Which do I feel is better overall.. hmm, I don't know honestly. With Instigator I can put up some wicked DPS stats for sure, but if I make many mistakes and take damage I explode. It's a tradeoff for sure. Like mentioned, I can't pull aggro from a rogue or gf on single target but I had no trouble at all taking aggro from adds like a boss. I feel like I was able to take some pressure off CWs who weren't as skilled by helping them gather mobs to toss over ledges.
I did almost feel like dead weight when it came time to DPS down packs of stuff though, I'll admit.. even when swapping dps gear in and dps powers.
That said, I got my ancient sword and knot by running CN over and over as a sentinel yesterday, so I can't complain. Now I have to swap back to Instigator and see how my numbers are. :O