They could have put a cap on the number of tradeskills each character could level, and then introduce recipes that require items from other tradeskills.
This would create a meta-market within the crafting community where you could choose to either make an item yourself, or make part of an item that could be sold to another player to allow them to make theirs..
So true... there is no such thing as Plate Shirts and Plate Pants, however, you would wear cloth or leather shirts and pants under your armor. Same with shoes, helmets, gauntlets, etc... Likewise, many leather and cloth armors, would have chain and plate parts. Think Elbows and Knees, etc...
Imagine if you needed Cloth Gloves to make Leather Gloves (Lining for comfort and warmth), then need these leather gloves to make Chain Gauntlets or Plate Gauntlets. Then your Wizard who takes Tailoring to be able to make things for their class, would have a market for their excess crafts. So would the Rogue who takes Leatherworking. Same with the Priest/GWF for Chain crafting, and the Fighter for Plate items.
Craftsmen should make parts and small basic pieces that are needed by other craftsmen to complete their works.
Psyb3rTr011
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
0
grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
So true... there is no such thing as Plate Shirts and Plate Pants, however, you would wear cloth or leather shirts and pants under your armor. Same with shoes, helmets, gauntlets, etc... Likewise, many leather and cloth armors, would have chain and plate parts. Think Elbows and Knees, etc...
Imagine if you needed Cloth Gloves to make Leather Gloves (Lining for comfort and warmth), then need these leather gloves to make Chain Gauntlets or Plate Gauntlets. Then your Wizard who takes Tailoring to be able to make things for their class, would have a market for their excess crafts. So would the Rogue who takes Leatherworking. Same with the Priest/GWF for Chain crafting, and the Fighter for Plate items.
Craftsmen should make parts and small basic pieces that are needed by other craftsmen to complete their works.
I think they named Plate shirts and pants that way, to differentiate from those made by Tailors, Leatherworkers and Mailsmiths. In reality Cotton/wool shirts were worn under Mail shirts under Plate armor.
The small pieces used in other professions are: bolts of cloth, Rings/scales, metal plates and leather.
The amount of ZEN is of course increased when people purchase it for real money, but it is also decreased when people spend money it the ZEN shop.
At present it is too early to say what the long term implications are.
This has no effect on the economy because all you can do with Zen is buy existing ADs off of someone else (or buy a Zen store item and sell it for already existing ADs). Currently, the only way that ADs are added to the economy are through in game transactions (leadership and dailies) or via buying the Neverwinter packs.
Level 20 armorcrafting is already quite lucrative with no investmest. I sell gloves every day at a profit.
Don't agree with raising vendor payouts. Crafting ingredients such as thread/coal/salt etc. are meant to be currency sinks and are a good idea imo. Keeps the gold I have from being devalued.
Until you can make gloves, everything put into armor proffessions is basically an investment to get to the point where you can make gloves, I don't really see anything wrong with this since if there was no investment required to get to the point where you can make gloves everyone would do it and gloves would be worthless.
If you are talking about the reinforced gloves. Pretty sure they are changing that in the next patch. From the patch notes:
Reinforced Arm slot crafted items are now all Bind on Pickup as intended. If there are any mailed or in the Auction Hall, they will become bound to the next character who picks them up.
Sounds like you won't be able to sell them anymore.
Yeah and that's bollocks changing that without substantial warning. I bought a load of gloves to convert. I have 4 or 5 on the go that still have another day to complete them, and they'll be useless. When I started crafting them it said BOE, people have been discussing it on the forums and posts haven't been deleted so it wasn't an exploit. So because I've levelled my character and my profs without exploits, and struggle to afford anything, pouring what I do make back into prof assets, I get shafted.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited September 2013
Now that Artificer and weaponsmith are new professions they actually give you a profit on any transaction. that is because +1 items are the level 1 starting items. Three professions that are profitable is two steps in the right direction. Three down, four to go. The Sunite Midsummer Festival crafting is not counted. Level 3 max is fine, because the festival is only 22 days.
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Now that Artificer and weaponsmith are new professions they actually give you a profit on any transaction. that is because +1 items are the level 1 starting items. Three professions that are profitable is two steps in the right direction. Three down, four to go. The Sunite Midsummer Festival crafting is not counted. Level 3 max is fine, because the festival is only 22 days.
I just looked at those and don't see any profit to be had.
+1 weapon sells for 92 copper.
Cost: 1 residuum (sells for 1 silver alone, but worth notably more in ah value and cannot be created free)
4x weapon blades: Can be made "free", but not really. As it takes time, and time is the most precious resource when it comes to professions.
So no, nothings profitable except leadership and things players will pay diamonds for on the AH (Not a **** thing in wep/artificing will be sold to anyone on the ah - it all sucks with the exception of that one thing im working on - which is BoP and will cost me well over a million diamonds when all is said and done).
I just looked at those and don't see any profit to be had.
It makes no sense to sell any items to a vendor, as the income is less than from selling the raw materials. You cannot sell them on the AH as there is really no market for them ... not long-term, that is - right now a few items can be sold for a profit as people might buy them to speed up their leveling of the professions.
What really annoys me is that there is nothing comparable to the armorcrafting shirts/pants. You can actually make an income there, if you are willing to spend a huge amount of AD on getting 4 purple tools - you should be able to break even in ine or two months. With Artificing and Weaponsmithing ... uh, no....forget it.
Professions are probably one of the reasons there were 3 seperate shards with an intended merger - to see what happens in different populations.
I have mail, plate, leather and tailoring maxed on different toons. On beholder I get Dragon Eggs from aH for 35-40k currently. I have 3 purple and 1 blue asset for mailsmithing so far and can make a profit even with the 40-odd % success rate. Gemmed '12hr' and '40 mins' blues also can make some sparklies. I can usually do the 40 min ones while I wait for the longer craft recipes to pop.
Alchemy? I'm not even sure that it was intended to be anything other than a 'slot-unlocker'. Once I have maxed Leaderships (most 18 or 19) I will fast level Alch on all toons to get the 3 lvl 20 slot. I actually find the hp pots that restore x hp and regenerate y over time quite useful for MY toons. Not looked at economics yet on those pots cos I'm concentrating on tose last levels for leadership.
The different rate of progress on each is intentional I think. Leadership needs longer because it creates ad from nothing - although refinement cap can help manage that too.
Gear professions are a currency sink to level - they always are in games and always should be. As said previously, early entrants at cap level get a head start. They are worth levelling if you can afford the time and have the investment. Its exactly the same with playing the AH - the more you have to invest the more you can make. Seems to me that folks are getting a return on levelling investment too - I usually pop to the AH to by the Superd/Fancy/etc piece I need.
The new crafts? I've just been levelling with 'gathers'. Looks like they have been designed as AD hungry professions rather than just gold by the looks of their residuum consumption and seem extra slow to level due to 'potentional' (not sure) higher level rewards.
(This latter point re AD consumption is telling me that (along with salvage/rough AD) as the economy has matured, that the dev/publ are now looking at managing the AD pool. Because up until now there has not been much of an AD sink beyond just the AH.)
Hmm, now I forgot what the topic was. *blushes* *leaves*
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axer128Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It makes no sense to sell any items to a vendor, as the income is less than from selling the raw materials. You cannot sell them on the AH as there is really no market for them ... not long-term, that is - right now a few items can be sold for a profit as people might buy them to speed up their leveling of the professions.
What really annoys me is that there is nothing comparable to the armorcrafting shirts/pants. You can actually make an income there, if you are willing to spend a huge amount of AD on getting 4 purple tools - you should be able to break even in ine or two months. With Artificing and Weaponsmithing ... uh, no....forget it.
Sad thing is even the shirts/pants became unprofitable for a large period of time on dragon - the period after the richest players got theirs, but dragons eggs remained ultra rare. Pants/shirts sold for 40k/140k ungem/gemmed (average profit around ~80k after odds/cuts, but dragon eggs cost about 120k.. So net loss without extreme luck.
They only became truly profitable when the tymora event happened. It really fixed the economy imo.. (Yet i read so many people complain it was breaking it lol).
But now since the events been gone so long, they are nearly the line of non-profitability sadly.
They really need to up the drop rate on dragon eggs (since it's essentially zero right now ).
if you are willing to spend a huge amount of AD on getting 4 purple tools - you should be able to break even in ine or two months.
That's kind of hard for the devs to control, since all the important parts (buying purple tools on the AH, selling finished goods on the AH) are player-defined.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited September 2013
You pay for Residuum! I get all of mine from Celestial coins, treasure pickups and skill kits (which do have some cost) so I consider, even though it is not, residuum to be free.
I just looked at those and don't see any profit to be had.
+1 weapon sells for 92 copper.
Cost: 1 residuum (sells for 1 silver alone, but worth notably more in ah value and cannot be created free)
4x weapon blades: Can be made "free", but not really. As it takes time, and time is the most precious resource when it comes to professions.
So no, nothings profitable except leadership and things players will pay diamonds for on the AH (Not a **** thing in wep/artificing will be sold to anyone on the ah - it all sucks with the exception of that one thing im working on - which is BoP and will cost me well over a million diamonds when all is said and done).
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited September 2013
You're right on the shirts/pants crafting, except the purple border version, which need a dragon's egg (20-100k AD each).
A big part of the problem is no real conversion between coin and AD (technically 1 AD= 10,000 gp) or Zen or Trade Bars. it's taken me 5 months to get to keep 250 gp. At level 12 and 11 for Weaponsmithing and Artificing respectively I am less than 10% of the way to lvl 20 MAX. I have made some hundreds of AD on Blue and green items on artificer and weaponsmithing (one took less than 3 min to sell last night).
It makes no sense to sell any items to a vendor, as the income is less than from selling the raw materials. You cannot sell them on the AH as there is really no market for them ... not long-term, that is - right now a few items can be sold for a profit as people might buy them to speed up their leveling of the professions.
What really annoys me is that there is nothing comparable to the armorcrafting shirts/pants. You can actually make an income there, if you are willing to spend a huge amount of AD on getting 4 purple tools - you should be able to break even in ine or two months. With Artificing and Weaponsmithing ... uh, no....forget it.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited September 2013
I use your idea of gathers for the new professions, but once I level I build the new stuff at level, and the Blue rares if possible, to sell and gather up to the next level. I did MAX Alchemy so if I need a component I can convert what I have to what I need. In Alchemy, if you are single minded AND plan for extra experiments to cover those that fail it'll be worth it.
Professions are probably one of the reasons there were 3 seperate shards with an intended merger - to see what happens in different populations.
I have mail, plate, leather and tailoring maxed on different toons. On beholder I get Dragon Eggs from aH for 35-40k currently. I have 3 purple and 1 blue asset for mailsmithing so far and can make a profit even with the 40-odd % success rate. Gemmed '12hr' and '40 mins' blues also can make some sparklies. I can usually do the 40 min ones while I wait for the longer craft recipes to pop.
Alchemy? I'm not even sure that it was intended to be anything other than a 'slot-unlocker'. Once I have maxed Leaderships (most 18 or 19) I will fast level Alch on all toons to get the 3 lvl 20 slot. I actually find the hp pots that restore x hp and regenerate y over time quite useful for MY toons. Not looked at economics yet on those pots cos I'm concentrating on tose last levels for leadership.
The different rate of progress on each is intentional I think. Leadership needs longer because it creates ad from nothing - although refinement cap can help manage that too.
Gear professions are a currency sink to level - they always are in games and always should be. As said previously, early entrants at cap level get a head start. They are worth levelling if you can afford the time and have the investment. Its exactly the same with playing the AH - the more you have to invest the more you can make. Seems to me that folks are getting a return on levelling investment too - I usually pop to the AH to by the Superd/Fancy/etc piece I need.
The new crafts? I've just been levelling with 'gathers'. Looks like they have been designed as AD hungry professions rather than just gold by the looks of their residuum consumption and seem extra slow to level due to 'potentional' (not sure) higher level rewards.
(This latter point re AD consumption is telling me that (along with salvage/rough AD) as the economy has matured, that the dev/publ are now looking at managing the AD pool. Because up until now there has not been much of an AD sink beyond just the AH.)
Hmm, now I forgot what the topic was. *blushes* *leaves*
0
grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
Sad thing is even the shirts/pants became unprofitable for a large period of time on dragon - the period after the richest players got theirs, but dragons eggs remained ultra rare. Pants/shirts sold for 40k/140k ungem/gemmed (average profit around ~80k after odds/cuts, but dragon eggs cost about 120k.. So net loss without extreme luck.
They only became truly profitable when the tymora event happened. It really fixed the economy imo.. (Yet i read so many people complain it was breaking it lol).
But now since the events been gone so long, they are nearly the line of non-profitability sadly.
They really need to up the drop rate on dragon eggs (since it's essentially zero right now ).
I agree that the drop rate of Dragon eggs is too low, I'd love to see it as high as the drop rate for lockboxes (about 10 times in the last 2 week I've had 2 lockboxes drop in 1 encounter), but I don't think that's practical. Maybe it was just a 'marketing ploy' to set us up for the discounted keys. Another essentially zero is the bag o' gems (total 2 in 5 months), bag o' jewels (none) or bag o' crystals (again none) needed for professional resource trading.
Comments
They are BoE in mailsmithing, tailoring and leatherworking - BoP in platesmithing - just look at the recipe yourself.
So true... there is no such thing as Plate Shirts and Plate Pants, however, you would wear cloth or leather shirts and pants under your armor. Same with shoes, helmets, gauntlets, etc... Likewise, many leather and cloth armors, would have chain and plate parts. Think Elbows and Knees, etc...
Imagine if you needed Cloth Gloves to make Leather Gloves (Lining for comfort and warmth), then need these leather gloves to make Chain Gauntlets or Plate Gauntlets. Then your Wizard who takes Tailoring to be able to make things for their class, would have a market for their excess crafts. So would the Rogue who takes Leatherworking. Same with the Priest/GWF for Chain crafting, and the Fighter for Plate items.
Craftsmen should make parts and small basic pieces that are needed by other craftsmen to complete their works.
AKA Cyber Troll and Euben Hadd
I think they named Plate shirts and pants that way, to differentiate from those made by Tailors, Leatherworkers and Mailsmiths. In reality Cotton/wool shirts were worn under Mail shirts under Plate armor.
The small pieces used in other professions are: bolts of cloth, Rings/scales, metal plates and leather.
This has no effect on the economy because all you can do with Zen is buy existing ADs off of someone else (or buy a Zen store item and sell it for already existing ADs). Currently, the only way that ADs are added to the economy are through in game transactions (leadership and dailies) or via buying the Neverwinter packs.
If you are talking about the reinforced gloves. Pretty sure they are changing that in the next patch. From the patch notes:
Sounds like you won't be able to sell them anymore.
I just looked at those and don't see any profit to be had.
+1 weapon sells for 92 copper.
Cost: 1 residuum (sells for 1 silver alone, but worth notably more in ah value and cannot be created free)
4x weapon blades: Can be made "free", but not really. As it takes time, and time is the most precious resource when it comes to professions.
So no, nothings profitable except leadership and things players will pay diamonds for on the AH (Not a **** thing in wep/artificing will be sold to anyone on the ah - it all sucks with the exception of that one thing im working on - which is BoP and will cost me well over a million diamonds when all is said and done).
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
It makes no sense to sell any items to a vendor, as the income is less than from selling the raw materials. You cannot sell them on the AH as there is really no market for them ... not long-term, that is - right now a few items can be sold for a profit as people might buy them to speed up their leveling of the professions.
What really annoys me is that there is nothing comparable to the armorcrafting shirts/pants. You can actually make an income there, if you are willing to spend a huge amount of AD on getting 4 purple tools - you should be able to break even in ine or two months. With Artificing and Weaponsmithing ... uh, no....forget it.
I have mail, plate, leather and tailoring maxed on different toons. On beholder I get Dragon Eggs from aH for 35-40k currently. I have 3 purple and 1 blue asset for mailsmithing so far and can make a profit even with the 40-odd % success rate. Gemmed '12hr' and '40 mins' blues also can make some sparklies. I can usually do the 40 min ones while I wait for the longer craft recipes to pop.
Alchemy? I'm not even sure that it was intended to be anything other than a 'slot-unlocker'. Once I have maxed Leaderships (most 18 or 19) I will fast level Alch on all toons to get the 3 lvl 20 slot. I actually find the hp pots that restore x hp and regenerate y over time quite useful for MY toons. Not looked at economics yet on those pots cos I'm concentrating on tose last levels for leadership.
The different rate of progress on each is intentional I think. Leadership needs longer because it creates ad from nothing - although refinement cap can help manage that too.
Gear professions are a currency sink to level - they always are in games and always should be. As said previously, early entrants at cap level get a head start. They are worth levelling if you can afford the time and have the investment. Its exactly the same with playing the AH - the more you have to invest the more you can make. Seems to me that folks are getting a return on levelling investment too - I usually pop to the AH to by the Superd/Fancy/etc piece I need.
The new crafts? I've just been levelling with 'gathers'. Looks like they have been designed as AD hungry professions rather than just gold by the looks of their residuum consumption and seem extra slow to level due to 'potentional' (not sure) higher level rewards.
(This latter point re AD consumption is telling me that (along with salvage/rough AD) as the economy has matured, that the dev/publ are now looking at managing the AD pool. Because up until now there has not been much of an AD sink beyond just the AH.)
Hmm, now I forgot what the topic was. *blushes* *leaves*
Sad thing is even the shirts/pants became unprofitable for a large period of time on dragon - the period after the richest players got theirs, but dragons eggs remained ultra rare. Pants/shirts sold for 40k/140k ungem/gemmed (average profit around ~80k after odds/cuts, but dragon eggs cost about 120k.. So net loss without extreme luck.
They only became truly profitable when the tymora event happened. It really fixed the economy imo.. (Yet i read so many people complain it was breaking it lol).
But now since the events been gone so long, they are nearly the line of non-profitability sadly.
They really need to up the drop rate on dragon eggs (since it's essentially zero right now ).
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
That's kind of hard for the devs to control, since all the important parts (buying purple tools on the AH, selling finished goods on the AH) are player-defined.
A big part of the problem is no real conversion between coin and AD (technically 1 AD= 10,000 gp) or Zen or Trade Bars. it's taken me 5 months to get to keep 250 gp. At level 12 and 11 for Weaponsmithing and Artificing respectively I am less than 10% of the way to lvl 20 MAX. I have made some hundreds of AD on Blue and green items on artificer and weaponsmithing (one took less than 3 min to sell last night).
The topic is where's the profit motive.
I agree that the drop rate of Dragon eggs is too low, I'd love to see it as high as the drop rate for lockboxes (about 10 times in the last 2 week I've had 2 lockboxes drop in 1 encounter), but I don't think that's practical. Maybe it was just a 'marketing ploy' to set us up for the discounted keys. Another essentially zero is the bag o' gems (total 2 in 5 months), bag o' jewels (none) or bag o' crystals (again none) needed for professional resource trading.