I tried a DC for a bit, got him up to 14. In that time I did a few skirmishes, and noticed that how hard the group was to heal depended entirely on whether or not they got out of the obviously marked bad and avoided obviously telegraphed power attacks. Some groups did, so my seal thingy was enough to cover most of the damage along with the occasional ... I forget the name, but the AoE heal that radiates from you. Sometimes one person would just stand in bad, but my HoT was generally enough when combined with the aforementioned spells to keep him up. When two people stood in bad or let themselves get surrounded (in different parts of the map, of course) I had to pop divinity and do the channeled heal for as long as I could, which seemed to be pathetically short. If three people were derps, game over man. At least they were smart enough to use potions, I shudder to think what would be thrown at me if they weren't.
At that point I realized that how useful I feel as a healer was entirely reliant on other people not being stupid. We all know how that goes. Knowing how those skirmishes went, dungeons would only be even more difficult and I would feel even more worthless. I get that DC are designed more around maintenance healing than burst healing and that people are supposed to avoid the hits that require big heals, but when a potion can do a better job of saving a life than I can ever hope for that is just not my idea of fun or being useful as a healer.
So, since I only have 2 character slots and wanted to try something else, I deleted the cleric (thus why I didn't remember any ability names). Shame really, I like the way clerics look in this game and can normally suffer through not being the best if it means looking good. I just can't stand the thought of getting to level cap and realizing I'm still worthless in a bad group.
I haven't seen instant queue times -- more like 30-45 minute queue times -- but I am still leveling my DC...
I haven't had any problem with solo nuking but in dungeons I'm not sure how to heal people. Or how to tell if I'm doing a good job healing people. Most of the time spamming astral seal, sunburst, and divine FF keeps people topped off but in the hard fights, I do... what exactly? Well, mostly I run away from things trying to kill me or spend my time nuking archers that no one else seems to notice exist. After five failed tries in Gray Wolf Den we succeeded after I switched to a DPS loadout and didn't tell anyone that they weren't getting anything but astral seal for healing because I was busy nuking the **** wolves and archers.
Argh. x.x
Props for that. In a good group your old Astral/Sunburst/Forgemaster's would have been enough but few people realize that the very last fight in the dungeon is an add fight - the boss is only dangerous if she has adds around. Very similar to Lair of the Mad Dragon. Our nukes are among the few things that can reliably kill off those shadow wolves quickly and without hassle. Rogues can go after them but risk taking damage. Even Great Weapon fighters in Unstoppable (rage mode) can take massive damage from those things. Mages with tabbed Chill Strike and Shield can take care of them easy, but few CWs either tab Chill Strike at these levels or save their strong AoEs for the shadow wolves.
Oh and yes, you're playing the class correctly and went above and beyond what is required of you by switching powers to what your party needed.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
I started a CW a few weeks ago that is now lvl 55, and pretty much just shelved my lvl 60 DPS spec'd DC as I only bring her out for PvP daily for Astrals.
CW is just so much more fun for me, easier to cast and dodge around--the mechanics of Spell Mastery in Tab are much better than DC TaB which stays on unless you click off-in the heat of battle, this happens and then you can't even throw your at wills...Also, I feel that the Spell Mastery effects are much more fun than the DC Divinity Effects...-Spell MAster Tab is a 4th Encoutner, and it's awesome. If DC could have 4th encounter, Id group more.
On my CW I use many different spells, my Spall MAstery Tab Slot is constantly changed. On my DC, I pretty much have to use the same 3 spells when running in group, and maybe, I can change one in pvp...
So, if a new person was starting out, and rolled more than a DC...I could see why they would choose the play the other class more.
I'm thinking of shelving my Cleric altogether at least until they give this class more effective healing AND ranged healing.
A hybrid healing class... which demands it DPS just to activate its best healing skills (via Divinity)... well... someone was smoking pipeweed when they thought of that idea... 'cause they forgot to give the hybrid healing class ranged heals!
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dsolzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I shelved my 60 DC a month or so ago. It was a combination of the following;
1) PUGs not listening / understanding the dungeons
2) Aggro was broken back then
3) Class wasn't what I had envisaged and there was no real move by Cryptic to change it
4) Biggest issue was the cries of 'heal moar!' from people who never responded to instructions, but were quite willing to blame the cleric for not healing them when they were stood in red circles, aggroed too many mobs etc.
AS nerf didn't bother me as I'd already quit - but the -40% self-healing and AS nerf would have probably put me over the edge anyway/
Therefore, to summarise, the cleric isn't the most fun character class in this game and coupled with a selfish player-base that expects you to sacrifice your own playing enjoyment so they can enjoy theirs doesn't help...
Walked out of a epic Dungeon at the final boss recently due to getting shouted at by a pug over voice.
Retarted cw running off from main group and died -- complain we are ****
Over Argo got to near death and start shouting at cleric for heal and when he doesn't get it vuguarity starts. If I made a mistake got myself to red I will pop a portion quietly.
totally pissed me off and I just quit the game after all these abuse.
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dsolzMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
But I do need to add I like playing cleric in this game compared to other mmo. I do hope that the healing capability forbdc can be buffed up a bit more thought.
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
Wow i feel like the minority here.
I love my DC. Love healing dungeons. PVP is another matter and is dependent upon me hitching my wagon to one or two really good players and doing my thing with them as a group.
Dungeon wise i always feel like i have the tools to heal. I roll with a Sunburst/Healing Word/Astral Shield/Divine Armor/Hallowed Ground/Astral seal.
Now i will say that a PUGS ability to stand in red circles is only exceeded by their ability to not stand in blue circles... lulz.
I just never have problems, didnt do T1s, just spent 15k in AD and 20 gold to get gear to jump straight to T2.
I know most people roll with Divine FF for the heals, but i already have enough heals on the tank or around the tank, HW allows me to control heals on idiots running from the group lol.
AShield always up on tank and close range, HG up always on whole group, Aseal always up on big adds or boss, HW always rolling on 3 people not named cleric or tank.. profit.
Edit: it is almost too easy. I mean % max health heal + % max health heal + lifesteal for everyone + huge DR in circle, + huge DR on every single ally + constant HoT. Not to mention awesome Oh **** button in Divine Armor (which i rarely use) When i am on my game peoples health bars literally never move... ever. I got like 36% recover, 34% crit and like 6k power. only have 10.2 GS right now and its almost too easy.
Edit 2: ok i am silly thread is about leveling. I did nothing but level quest path. Tried dungeons but just not fun, hectic and terrible not to mention wait. I just did quests. Finished every quest, leveled faster than all my friends, only had to party up for one quest out of every single quest there. Soloed everything else. Took my friends about an extra week from 1-60 with similar play time invested. About to start my GF so ill see what diff is.
I'm a freshly minted DC @ 60 with a couple purples and loving it, no plans to quit or change class. Haven't done any epic's yet, trying to find a good guild on Mindflayer.
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hexanna22Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 204Bounty Hunter
I love my DC. Love healing dungeons. PVP is another matter and is dependent upon me hitching my wagon to one or two really good players and doing my thing with them as a group.
Dungeon wise i always feel like i have the tools to heal. I roll with a Sunburst/Healing Word/Astral Shield/Divine Armor/Hallowed Ground/Astral seal.
Now i will say that a PUGS ability to stand in red circles is only exceeded by their ability to not stand in blue circles... lulz.
I just never have problems, didnt do T1s, just spent 15k in AD and 20 gold to get gear to jump straight to T2.
I know most people roll with Divine FF for the heals, but i already have enough heals on the tank or around the tank, HW allows me to control heals on idiots running from the group lol.
AShield always up on tank and close range, HG up always on whole group, Aseal always up on big adds or boss, HW always rolling on 3 people not named cleric or tank.. profit.
Edit: it is almost too easy. I mean % max health heal + % max health heal + lifesteal for everyone + huge DR in circle, + huge DR on every single ally + constant HoT. Not to mention awesome Oh **** button in Divine Armor (which i rarely use) When i am on my game peoples health bars literally never move... ever. I got like 36% recover, 34% crit and like 6k power. only have 10.2 GS right now and its almost too easy.
Edit 2: ok i am silly thread is about leveling. I did nothing but level quest path. Tried dungeons but just not fun, hectic and terrible not to mention wait. I just did quests. Finished every quest, leveled faster than all my friends, only had to party up for one quest out of every single quest there. Soloed everything else. Took my friends about an extra week from 1-60 with similar play time invested. About to start my GF so ill see what diff is.
I think for many of us, we don't want to be healbots...we want to do both heal and DPS....you are a healbot, and you enjoy it.
There are so many awesome DPS and even DeBuff spells that my DC has that I don't get to use anymore if I group. Doing the same thing over and over gets boring, we have to do it to get gear, but it's even more boring now that you have to healbot in group. So I just solo what I can on my DC where I can change spells and have fun with it...However, my CW is much more fun to solo with.
Leveling and playing a Cleric was much more fun at early levels than what it became in the late levels.
Clerics at low level have good damage, good heal, can substain themself, good armor, overall a very decent class.
Once in the high levels, you have low damage, can't heal yourself, armor doesn't do anything and whenever something is useful, they nerf it or simply put it on a half an hour invisible cooldown to make sure you don't spec it.
We scale like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, armor scale like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Add that to the rage of having to manage your team because people stand in the red and they don't keep the add's off you and you've got yourself a winner class.
Might as well go play a GF and press 3 buttons to kill a Cleric.
clerics scale worse than any class that I know, their equipment is exactly the same (look at the defense that clerics get on blue equipment then look at the equivalent blue equipment defense for the fighter classes and you will note that clerics get way less defense but will have the same amount of opponents upon them and will also be the primary targets in PvP)
I started a CW a few weeks ago that is now lvl 55, and pretty much just shelved my lvl 60 DPS spec'd DC as I only bring her out for PvP daily for Astrals.
CW is just so much more fun for me, easier to cast and dodge around--the mechanics of Spell Mastery in Tab are much better than DC TaB which stays on unless you click off-in the heat of battle, this happens and then you can't even throw your at wills...Also, I feel that the Spell Mastery effects are much more fun than the DC Divinity Effects...-Spell MAster Tab is a 4th Encoutner, and it's awesome. If DC could have 4th encounter, Id group more.
On my CW I use many different spells, my Spall MAstery Tab Slot is constantly changed. On my DC, I pretty much have to use the same 3 spells when running in group, and maybe, I can change one in pvp...
So, if a new person was starting out, and rolled more than a DC...I could see why they would choose the play the other class more.
I quite agree that the cleric needs a 4th encounter slot. If the cleric doesn't have two slotted encounter attacks they can't defend themselves, but if they don't have two slotted heals they are heavily healing/buffing gimped. That they only get 3 slots prevents them from not only having variety in their casts but prevents them from actually playing well.
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013
I just think its natural.
Cleric isnt meant to be anything on their own, they are a force multiplier for their team whether talking heals or buffing.
I mean all of our spells outside of just a couple are completely focused around reducing damage to someone else, increasing damage for someone else, preventing damage, or healing damage.
It is like buying a sports car and then complaining you dont have room to move your furniture in it.
I dont see complaints in rogue forums that they cant increase other peoples damage as much as a cleric, or the CW forum that they cant prevent as much damage as a cleric, or the fighter forum that they cant heal as much damage.
Cleric isnt meant to be anything on their own, they are a force multiplier for their team whether talking heals or buffing.
I mean all of our spells outside of just a couple are completely focused around reducing damage to someone else, increasing damage for someone else, preventing damage, or healing damage.
It is like buying a sports car and then complaining you dont have room to move your furniture in it.
I dont see complaints in rogue forums that they cant increase other peoples damage as much as a cleric, or the CW forum that they cant prevent as much damage as a cleric, or the fighter forum that they cant heal as much damage.
go play your rogue and stop trying to keep the cleric as gimped as can be
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
Cleric isnt meant to be anything on their own, they are a force multiplier for their team whether talking heals or buffing.
I mean all of our spells outside of just a couple are completely focused around reducing damage to someone else, increasing damage for someone else, preventing damage, or healing damage.
It is like buying a sports car and then complaining you dont have room to move your furniture in it.
I dont see complaints in rogue forums that they cant increase other peoples damage as much as a cleric, or the CW forum that they cant prevent as much damage as a cleric, or the fighter forum that they cant heal as much damage.
I have to say that I have done many dungeons and skirmishes without a cleric and been fine...but without a CW? They sucked, CW definitely mitigates damage more than a cleric thur CC and getting rid of adds fast. So your example doesn't quite hold up.
Now you could say, that this being the case, one could carry whatever spells they want on their DC, but people play different when a DC is in the group, they expect to be healed and to not have to take potions, and to just hack and slash.
I have to say that I have done many dungeons and skirmishes without a cleric and been fine...but without a CW? They sucked, CW definitely mitigates damage more than a cleric thur CC and getting rid of adds fast. So your example doesn't quite hold up.
Now you could say, that this being the case, one could carry whatever spells they want on their DC, but people play different when a DC is in the group, they expect to be healed and to not have to take potions, and to just hack and slash.
If they were playing with my virtuous cleric they would't be getting much in the way of healing, but you do raise a good point people play differently when there is no cleric. It's as if they think cleric = easy mode still from when astral shield could be stacked and was able to be up 100% of the time.
As for less clerics levelling, you might be right, but there are still quite a few it seems.
Now good clerics? hah when leveling my tank I met some pretty bad ones. Needles to say if I get those I sometimes have to take out my taunt because I need less aggro so I don't die (and can heal myself with potions/righter's recovery in it's entirety).
Such as one time when the cleric was spamming divinity sunburst all the time despite being asked to stop in a party of 2 TR, a GWF and a tank. SO needless to say having all the targets knocked away all the time was terrible but all the players were bad as they refused to pick up anyone when they went down.
Now running normal mad dragon on my tank I had an excellent cleric and could taunt all the time without worrying because I that cleric kept throwing me healing word which was awesome. At this final boss I soloed it and all 4 of them were on the adds and the dragon went down fast.
I dont see complaints in rogue forums that they cant increase other peoples damage as much as a cleric, or the CW forum that they cant prevent as much damage as a cleric, or the fighter forum that they cant heal as much damage.
I think they might complain if they had 'abilities' like "increase everyone's crit score by X amount. And your own by only 60% of that."
We're supposed to buff and heal/mitigate (and also do damage), and essentially every other game has quite happily managed this without also adding inherent debuffs or making the healer class a free kill for the majority of players. If clerics aren't meant to be anything on their own, why does solo content exist for clerics? And if solo content is disregarded, then you could equally argue that none of the classes are meant to be anything on their own (can't solo CN, no matter what class you are).
If we were following the traditional MMO mould, clerics would have lower damage output but much higher survivability. They'd be annoying kills in PvP, but high priority ones. As it is, we're not being ganked in PvP because we're the primary asset to remove, we're being ganked in PvP because killing clerics is painfully easy.
Clericing is like buying a sports car and finding out that all it does is make everyone else go faster.
I quite agree that the cleric needs a 4th encounter slot. If the cleric doesn't have two slotted encounter attacks they can't defend themselves, but if they don't have two slotted heals they are heavily healing/buffing gimped. That they only get 3 slots prevents them from not only having variety in their casts but prevents them from actually playing well.
Definitely this. Maybe we could get some kind of mechanic where when we pop Divinity, we can slot out an at-will for an encounter? Honestly, I'd rather have my normal at wills and just stay in Divinity. The channeled ones are just totally <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. They COULD buff those up and make them worthwhile, too. I just hit 30, btw. I still don't really know what to do in dungeons. If anyone takes a lot of damage, I can try to heal them, but I won't even make a dent. I try to keep AS on big mobs, and sunburst whenever it's up.
Sunburst is another weird thing. I want to use Divinity to get bigger heals, but when I do, it throws mobs around, which has to be a nightmare for the tank. I don't do that if I can help it. Sometimes I do by accident. I wish there was a setting where divinity was only active when we HELD a key, rather than tap-on/tap-off.
Sunburst is another weird thing. I want to use Divinity to get bigger heals, but when I do, it throws mobs around, which has to be a nightmare for the tank. I don't do that if I can help it. Sometimes I do by accident. I wish there was a setting where divinity was only active when we HELD a key, rather than tap-on/tap-off.
You aren't the only one. I try to maintain mental track of my divinity status, but sometimes in the heat of battle, I slip. When I know that I have forgotten, I can look to see what colour the div bar is (when it's visible in all the mess). However, when I simply have it the wrong way around, then I end up spraying mobs and inconveniencing the CW (the tank really isn't nearly as important most of the time, just saying), an obvious beginner mistake that makes you look pretty incompetent
I like your suggestion, that tab could be made to optionally work like a "divinity shift key", effectively. Great idea.
Sometimes I do by accident. I wish there was a setting where divinity was only active when we HELD a key, rather than tap-on/tap-off.
I rebound my tab slot/Divinity key to my closest thumb mouse button. I can toggle Divinity extremely fast that way and independently of movement keys. With this method, I never hit divine Sunburst by accident and I can reliably proc Linked Spirit with Sunburst.
Sad really... how many Cleric players seem to accept their chosen class' gimped state. Why can't Clerics heal better at range? As far as I know (I'm only level 45), the only ranged heals a Cleric has are HoT/Heal-over-Time types. This doesn't do much for players when they're being 1 shot/near 1 shot by bosses.
Sad really... how many Cleric players seem to accept their chosen class' gimped state. Why can't Clerics heal better at range? As far as I know (I'm only level 45), the only ranged heals a Cleric has are HoT/Heal-over-Time types. This doesn't do much for players when they're being 1 shot/near 1 shot by bosses.
If you're being "near 1 shot by bosses", you need to not stand in the red. Seriously. Bosses in this game are essentially massive punchbags with large HP pools, the real fight tends to be to kill the boss before the adds eat you.
I appreciate that you don't really have much grasp of the dungeon mechanics as you're only lv 45, but.. you'll see
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fathomfulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 207Bounty Hunter
Sad really... how many Cleric players seem to accept their chosen class' gimped state. Why can't Clerics heal better at range? As far as I know (I'm only level 45), the only ranged heals a Cleric has are HoT/Heal-over-Time types. This doesn't do much for players when they're being 1 shot/near 1 shot by bosses.
WTB dedicated healer in this game.
Yea there are only 5 options for direct heals at ranged that are available. However considering that you only have 7 slots i would say that is a pretty good ratio.
Underwhelming... maybe, but they are there. You dont have to be a slave to popular builds to succeed in the game.
Sad really... how many Cleric players seem to accept their chosen class' gimped state. Why can't Clerics heal better at range? As far as I know (I'm only level 45), the only ranged heals a Cleric has are HoT/Heal-over-Time types. This doesn't do much for players when they're being 1 shot/near 1 shot by bosses.
WTB dedicated healer in this game.
Healing Word works as a ranged direct heal if you fling it in D-mode. Basically it's a crappy HoT in normal mode and a crappy HoT with a frontloaded crappy spike-heal in divinity.
So there's that. I assume it's actually quite good if you feat for it and can target like a pro, but I don't use it much because I don't have either of those prerequisites. Forgemasters is easy to target, coz you just aim for the big badguys (even easier if you wait a second or two for the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> small badguys to get killed), but targeting one friendly in a mass of YELLOW, ORANGE AND GREEN NUMBERZ is...not my forte. Bastion of health is also a semi-spike heal, but it's terrible because in non-divinity the casting time completely destroys the value of the 'instant heal nao plz', so you more or less need to cast in D if you're trying for clutch heals, but even then the cooldown is almost longer than most fights.
The general rule of thumb seems to be "if you need a clutch heal, drink a potion", with the corollary of "if you need a clutch heal, you shouldn't've been standing where you were, should you?", which is a bit crappy but there you go. Once you get astral shield you can often allow people to power through the red anyway, which'll make you able to carry crappy teams a fair bit of the time. Healing is...yeah, not terribly rewarding, though I do kinda like the way we can, to a certain extent, dictate exactly where fights happen. "Oh you want to fight the bajillion skellies on the stairs, do you? Well the magic blue circle is over here, so...your call."
Not trying to argue that we're NOT gimped, though. God no.
We are wearing chain mail but it feels like we might as well be wearing cloth we are so squishy... Also The divinity at wills need further buffing I'd say. I use soothing light when someone is almost dead from a spike hit, if specced into it it is good when someone is low on hp but not otherwise.
We are wearing chain mail but it feels like we might as well be wearing cloth we are so squishy... Also The divinity at wills need further buffing I'd say. I use soothing light when someone is almost dead from a spike hit, if specced into it it is good when someone is low on hp but not otherwise.
Also the self heals debuff needs to go
clerics have just as much opposition attacking them as do the fighters, except the fighters have 50 to 60% damage reduction to the clerics 30 to 40%... the fighters also have somewhere around 50% blocking to the clerics perhaps 2.5%, the fighters also have stuff like front immunity and/or massive health regain
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marcovanweeghelMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I'm levelling a DC but only whilst playing with my girlfriend, so it's slow going as she only plays on weekends. My CW is going much faster, and he's only on lvl 22
clerics have just as much opposition attacking them as do the fighters, except the fighters have 50 to 60% damage reduction to the clerics 30 to 40%... the fighters also have somewhere around 50% blocking to the clerics perhaps 2.5%, the fighters also have stuff like front immunity and/or massive health regain
What we get is like nothing compared to before the patch. It seems like the wizards have it worse than us, though I've gotten chased a lot in some of the skirmishes (which still isn't too bad as long as the group's working on the adds).
What we get is like nothing compared to before the patch. It seems like the wizards have it worse than us, though I've gotten chased a lot in some of the skirmishes (which still isn't too bad as long as the group's working on the adds).
the solution should have been to strengthen the defense on the clerics not to make all the fighters defensively stronger, often immune, and great at self-healing while nerfing the cleric all to hell
Comments
At that point I realized that how useful I feel as a healer was entirely reliant on other people not being stupid. We all know how that goes. Knowing how those skirmishes went, dungeons would only be even more difficult and I would feel even more worthless. I get that DC are designed more around maintenance healing than burst healing and that people are supposed to avoid the hits that require big heals, but when a potion can do a better job of saving a life than I can ever hope for that is just not my idea of fun or being useful as a healer.
So, since I only have 2 character slots and wanted to try something else, I deleted the cleric (thus why I didn't remember any ability names). Shame really, I like the way clerics look in this game and can normally suffer through not being the best if it means looking good. I just can't stand the thought of getting to level cap and realizing I'm still worthless in a bad group.
Oh and yes, you're playing the class correctly and went above and beyond what is required of you by switching powers to what your party needed.
CW is just so much more fun for me, easier to cast and dodge around--the mechanics of Spell Mastery in Tab are much better than DC TaB which stays on unless you click off-in the heat of battle, this happens and then you can't even throw your at wills...Also, I feel that the Spell Mastery effects are much more fun than the DC Divinity Effects...-Spell MAster Tab is a 4th Encoutner, and it's awesome. If DC could have 4th encounter, Id group more.
On my CW I use many different spells, my Spall MAstery Tab Slot is constantly changed. On my DC, I pretty much have to use the same 3 spells when running in group, and maybe, I can change one in pvp...
So, if a new person was starting out, and rolled more than a DC...I could see why they would choose the play the other class more.
A hybrid healing class... which demands it DPS just to activate its best healing skills (via Divinity)... well... someone was smoking pipeweed when they thought of that idea... 'cause they forgot to give the hybrid healing class ranged heals!
Walked out of a epic Dungeon at the final boss recently due to getting shouted at by a pug over voice.
Retarted cw running off from main group and died -- complain we are ****
Over Argo got to near death and start shouting at cleric for heal and when he doesn't get it vuguarity starts. If I made a mistake got myself to red I will pop a portion quietly.
totally pissed me off and I just quit the game after all these abuse.
I love my DC. Love healing dungeons. PVP is another matter and is dependent upon me hitching my wagon to one or two really good players and doing my thing with them as a group.
Dungeon wise i always feel like i have the tools to heal. I roll with a Sunburst/Healing Word/Astral Shield/Divine Armor/Hallowed Ground/Astral seal.
Now i will say that a PUGS ability to stand in red circles is only exceeded by their ability to not stand in blue circles... lulz.
I just never have problems, didnt do T1s, just spent 15k in AD and 20 gold to get gear to jump straight to T2.
I know most people roll with Divine FF for the heals, but i already have enough heals on the tank or around the tank, HW allows me to control heals on idiots running from the group lol.
AShield always up on tank and close range, HG up always on whole group, Aseal always up on big adds or boss, HW always rolling on 3 people not named cleric or tank.. profit.
Edit: it is almost too easy. I mean % max health heal + % max health heal + lifesteal for everyone + huge DR in circle, + huge DR on every single ally + constant HoT. Not to mention awesome Oh **** button in Divine Armor (which i rarely use) When i am on my game peoples health bars literally never move... ever. I got like 36% recover, 34% crit and like 6k power. only have 10.2 GS right now and its almost too easy.
Edit 2: ok i am silly thread is about leveling. I did nothing but level quest path. Tried dungeons but just not fun, hectic and terrible not to mention wait. I just did quests. Finished every quest, leveled faster than all my friends, only had to party up for one quest out of every single quest there. Soloed everything else. Took my friends about an extra week from 1-60 with similar play time invested. About to start my GF so ill see what diff is.
I think for many of us, we don't want to be healbots...we want to do both heal and DPS....you are a healbot, and you enjoy it.
There are so many awesome DPS and even DeBuff spells that my DC has that I don't get to use anymore if I group. Doing the same thing over and over gets boring, we have to do it to get gear, but it's even more boring now that you have to healbot in group. So I just solo what I can on my DC where I can change spells and have fun with it...However, my CW is much more fun to solo with.
clerics scale worse than any class that I know, their equipment is exactly the same (look at the defense that clerics get on blue equipment then look at the equivalent blue equipment defense for the fighter classes and you will note that clerics get way less defense but will have the same amount of opponents upon them and will also be the primary targets in PvP)
I quite agree that the cleric needs a 4th encounter slot. If the cleric doesn't have two slotted encounter attacks they can't defend themselves, but if they don't have two slotted heals they are heavily healing/buffing gimped. That they only get 3 slots prevents them from not only having variety in their casts but prevents them from actually playing well.
Cleric isnt meant to be anything on their own, they are a force multiplier for their team whether talking heals or buffing.
I mean all of our spells outside of just a couple are completely focused around reducing damage to someone else, increasing damage for someone else, preventing damage, or healing damage.
It is like buying a sports car and then complaining you dont have room to move your furniture in it.
I dont see complaints in rogue forums that they cant increase other peoples damage as much as a cleric, or the CW forum that they cant prevent as much damage as a cleric, or the fighter forum that they cant heal as much damage.
go play your rogue and stop trying to keep the cleric as gimped as can be
That doesn't make any sense. I play a cleric. Sounds like you are the one that wants to play a rogue.
I have to say that I have done many dungeons and skirmishes without a cleric and been fine...but without a CW? They sucked, CW definitely mitigates damage more than a cleric thur CC and getting rid of adds fast. So your example doesn't quite hold up.
Now you could say, that this being the case, one could carry whatever spells they want on their DC, but people play different when a DC is in the group, they expect to be healed and to not have to take potions, and to just hack and slash.
If they were playing with my virtuous cleric they would't be getting much in the way of healing, but you do raise a good point people play differently when there is no cleric. It's as if they think cleric = easy mode still from when astral shield could be stacked and was able to be up 100% of the time.
As for less clerics levelling, you might be right, but there are still quite a few it seems.
Now good clerics? hah when leveling my tank I met some pretty bad ones. Needles to say if I get those I sometimes have to take out my taunt because I need less aggro so I don't die (and can heal myself with potions/righter's recovery in it's entirety).
Such as one time when the cleric was spamming divinity sunburst all the time despite being asked to stop in a party of 2 TR, a GWF and a tank. SO needless to say having all the targets knocked away all the time was terrible but all the players were bad as they refused to pick up anyone when they went down.
Now running normal mad dragon on my tank I had an excellent cleric and could taunt all the time without worrying because I that cleric kept throwing me healing word which was awesome. At this final boss I soloed it and all 4 of them were on the adds and the dragon went down fast.
I think they might complain if they had 'abilities' like "increase everyone's crit score by X amount. And your own by only 60% of that."
We're supposed to buff and heal/mitigate (and also do damage), and essentially every other game has quite happily managed this without also adding inherent debuffs or making the healer class a free kill for the majority of players. If clerics aren't meant to be anything on their own, why does solo content exist for clerics? And if solo content is disregarded, then you could equally argue that none of the classes are meant to be anything on their own (can't solo CN, no matter what class you are).
If we were following the traditional MMO mould, clerics would have lower damage output but much higher survivability. They'd be annoying kills in PvP, but high priority ones. As it is, we're not being ganked in PvP because we're the primary asset to remove, we're being ganked in PvP because killing clerics is painfully easy.
Clericing is like buying a sports car and finding out that all it does is make everyone else go faster.
Definitely this. Maybe we could get some kind of mechanic where when we pop Divinity, we can slot out an at-will for an encounter? Honestly, I'd rather have my normal at wills and just stay in Divinity. The channeled ones are just totally <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. They COULD buff those up and make them worthwhile, too. I just hit 30, btw. I still don't really know what to do in dungeons. If anyone takes a lot of damage, I can try to heal them, but I won't even make a dent. I try to keep AS on big mobs, and sunburst whenever it's up.
Sunburst is another weird thing. I want to use Divinity to get bigger heals, but when I do, it throws mobs around, which has to be a nightmare for the tank. I don't do that if I can help it. Sometimes I do by accident. I wish there was a setting where divinity was only active when we HELD a key, rather than tap-on/tap-off.
You aren't the only one. I try to maintain mental track of my divinity status, but sometimes in the heat of battle, I slip. When I know that I have forgotten, I can look to see what colour the div bar is (when it's visible in all the mess). However, when I simply have it the wrong way around, then I end up spraying mobs and inconveniencing the CW (the tank really isn't nearly as important most of the time, just saying), an obvious beginner mistake that makes you look pretty incompetent
I like your suggestion, that tab could be made to optionally work like a "divinity shift key", effectively. Great idea.
I rebound my tab slot/Divinity key to my closest thumb mouse button. I can toggle Divinity extremely fast that way and independently of movement keys. With this method, I never hit divine Sunburst by accident and I can reliably proc Linked Spirit with Sunburst.
WTB dedicated healer in this game.
If you're being "near 1 shot by bosses", you need to not stand in the red. Seriously. Bosses in this game are essentially massive punchbags with large HP pools, the real fight tends to be to kill the boss before the adds eat you.
I appreciate that you don't really have much grasp of the dungeon mechanics as you're only lv 45, but.. you'll see
Yea there are only 5 options for direct heals at ranged that are available. However considering that you only have 7 slots i would say that is a pretty good ratio.
Underwhelming... maybe, but they are there. You dont have to be a slave to popular builds to succeed in the game.
Healing Word works as a ranged direct heal if you fling it in D-mode. Basically it's a crappy HoT in normal mode and a crappy HoT with a frontloaded crappy spike-heal in divinity.
So there's that. I assume it's actually quite good if you feat for it and can target like a pro, but I don't use it much because I don't have either of those prerequisites. Forgemasters is easy to target, coz you just aim for the big badguys (even easier if you wait a second or two for the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> small badguys to get killed), but targeting one friendly in a mass of YELLOW, ORANGE AND GREEN NUMBERZ is...not my forte. Bastion of health is also a semi-spike heal, but it's terrible because in non-divinity the casting time completely destroys the value of the 'instant heal nao plz', so you more or less need to cast in D if you're trying for clutch heals, but even then the cooldown is almost longer than most fights.
The general rule of thumb seems to be "if you need a clutch heal, drink a potion", with the corollary of "if you need a clutch heal, you shouldn't've been standing where you were, should you?", which is a bit crappy but there you go. Once you get astral shield you can often allow people to power through the red anyway, which'll make you able to carry crappy teams a fair bit of the time. Healing is...yeah, not terribly rewarding, though I do kinda like the way we can, to a certain extent, dictate exactly where fights happen. "Oh you want to fight the bajillion skellies on the stairs, do you? Well the magic blue circle is over here, so...your call."
Not trying to argue that we're NOT gimped, though. God no.
Also the self heals debuff needs to go
clerics have just as much opposition attacking them as do the fighters, except the fighters have 50 to 60% damage reduction to the clerics 30 to 40%... the fighters also have somewhere around 50% blocking to the clerics perhaps 2.5%, the fighters also have stuff like front immunity and/or massive health regain
the solution should have been to strengthen the defense on the clerics not to make all the fighters defensively stronger, often immune, and great at self-healing while nerfing the cleric all to hell