the only thing that should be able to ever kill a cw 1v1 is another, more skilled cw. or if a rogue is dumb enough to use deft strike in pvp. other than that, shouldn't die 1v1.
if you disagree you should check out my stream sometime. just need to understand your class more tbh. gear doesn't matter. ive never seen you guys play but im assuming you don't predict anything, your positioning is probably pretty poor, and you probably don't really understand the mechanics of a cw. not trash talkin just sayin, cws are nuts in pvp if you know how to play them, they counter everything except a tr, and trs are easily to handle unless theyre a top tier pvper.
lasts maybe enough to run three or four meters. And you're still getting hit in the process, unless the opponent is also a charge-less Melee. That is, a gwf.
Please enlighten us on which set is the best then since SW is so overrated and "glass cannon"? :rolleyes:
That's right... perhaps you should educate yourself on a matter before speaking on it like you know something.
and I just saw this post, and hes correct, shadow weaver 4 set is horrible. if you would ever use a 4 set in pvp it would be vizier, which I still don't recommend, the best route to go is 2x sw 2x magelord.
Why not remove stealth from rogue, DELETE Cloud of steel, shocking execution, duelist flurry, MMMMMm....Yeah! Downgrade rogue armor class to BELOW CLOTH,.......HMmmmmmm......Oh yeah...Make lashing blade do 100-200 damage. MAke all rogue gear, weapons, ornaments exclusive utility slots......MMMmmm......Screw it...make ALL their skills 100-200 damage. Remove EVERY SINGLE cc skill a rogue has too.
NOTHING short of the above will make your crybabies happy. NOTHING.
PITY,REGRET, AND MERCY are just EXCUSES for the strong not to kill the weak!
Rougues don't need nerf, they just need to face at least two or three class with appropriate counter for stealth mode excalty as the CW face three class who are half of the time immune to CC.
And give to the boss the ability to see them, should be obvious to avoid silly soloing down.
and about the screenshot, so 13 against 15? a first GG after patch? really not full? i have a doubt, but assuming you are right, it was the fisrt or second time for everyone, the red team was weak it's obvious, ok?
So the conclusion is obvious, even in a weak team a rougue can make easy free kill, due to the perma stealth OP mode, but fortunately for us one of them is not enough to win a domination match.
cool story bro
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marlasingersMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited July 2013
Everybody is an expert, but nobody can seem to recall class balancing in any other mmo they've played. Every class will have their moment on the top of the food chain.
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ilkofamnesiaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
U make the game look easy on a easy mode class apology accepted.
PS.Thx for the exploit research also and keep sharing the tactics^^ pls.
What are you talking about? If you are going to make a complaint, how about actually making one? I don't exploit and I don't even use that terrible perma stealth build. Unless you are absolutely terrible, there is no reason to repeatedly die on any template against it.
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ilkofamnesiaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
the only thing that should be able to ever kill a cw 1v1 is another, more skilled cw. or if a rogue is dumb enough to use deft strike in pvp. other than that, shouldn't die 1v1.
if you disagree you should check out my stream sometime. just need to understand your class more tbh. gear doesn't matter. ive never seen you guys play but im assuming you don't predict anything, your positioning is probably pretty poor, and you probably don't really understand the mechanics of a cw. not trash talkin just sayin, cws are nuts in pvp if you know how to play them, they counter everything except a tr, and trs are easily to handle unless theyre a top tier pvper.
Lolz...dumb enough to use deft strike? That *dumb* move helps a rogue compete vs. a CWs three teles (rogue only has double roll).
Any rogue worth their salt (not using the crappy stealth build) will use deft strike for proper advantage...
That screenie looks suspiciously like the other team was being spawn camped , obviously the CW are going to come out on top spamming aoe's in time to the other teams respawn..
Want to see the difference between normal game and spawn camping one? just look at ASSISTS.
Just gotta know that its a rock paper scissors game man. Rogues have always gotten a nice smirk seeing that caster sit in theb ack thinking they are safe... TRs are very populated because they dont take alot of skill to play or even gear and its worse when they DO have skill AND gear... Not much you can do...
That is why PVP isnt a 1v1 and it isnt a kill based game so far... Its a team based game and if you have a DC with AS, youll be fine. If you have another TR youll be fine.
Just gotta realize what weakness you have have try to play against that.
Not trying to flame you and say "L2P" but sometimes a class just cant beat another class... Just how it is.
Actually rogues do take skill. It just goes out the window when people make various guides to tell/show them how to play thier classes without them learning for themselves. So as much as I want to blame the people that go the easy routes, I also blame the people that make the guides for them which these people just copy from.
If you see what I posted, "Dont take alot of skill to play and its worse when they have skill"
Its pretty easy to be a cheese ball and cloak -> kill steal for a high K/D ratio... Usually when ppl complain thats a big issue. That being said to play a class against GOOD people will take skill with any class...
Its just easier to play a class that does incredibly high burst damage who is also no visible... Its also easy to play a class that can face tank 3 people and still take them out 1 by 1 because of high regen and burst... Does it take skill vs good players? YOu bet it does... But in pugs, its rollfaceonkeyboard=win
There is a ton of rock paper scissors in this game where certain classes that are certain specs just cant do anything against other classes that are certain specs... Its just the way games have always been...
As for the guides. Some post to help out, some post to show how OP a build is... Just know if your gonna copy someone you probably wont be better than the person you copied because experience = knowledge as well... Just copying a build doesnt help you know the str and weaknesses with it.
As always just knowing how each class is played and the abilities will help you FAR more than copying a leet build.
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
Lolz...dumb enough to use deft strike? That *dumb* move helps a rogue compete vs. a CWs three teles (rogue only has double roll).
Any rogue worth their salt (not using the crappy stealth build) will use deft strike for proper advantage...
I run exec and dropped deft. It really is only useful vs CW and with speed swindle and the 2 dodges I can keep up with there 3 teles fine .... Never had a use for deft strike vs other classes. Honestly the only thin I found it to excel at was stealing kill s from my teammates.
Lots of QQ in this thread. Some general advice. CW's aren't solo classes, especially in PvP. You should be supplementing your team's own melee classes. Assume your side is a GWF,TR, CW vs a GWF,GF,TR, the side with the better control could win. By isolating the easiest target, the TR, the CW controls the others, while his melee kills off the TR. Then you have a 3 v 2. You're playing this like its a free for all deathmatch, yet there's no deathmatch mode in the game. I think you're missing the point of the PvP in this game.
Lots of QQ in this thread. Some general advice. CW's aren't solo classes, especially in PvP. You should be supplementing your team's own melee classes. Assume your side is a GWF,TR, CW vs a GWF,GF,TR, the side with the better control could win. By isolating the easiest target, the TR, the CW controls the others, while his melee kills off the TR. Then you have a 3 v 2. You're playing this like its a free for all deathmatch, yet there's no deathmatch mode in the game. I think you're missing the point of the PvP in this game.
Yeah right, CW isolates TR. +90% of cases its the other way around. Then you have a 2 v 2. TR gets annihilated instantly after killing the CW (unless that miserable thing is is permastealth then it is 300 v 2).
There is a deathmatch mode in this game, it is called CW vs rogue.
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ilkofamnesiaMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
I run exec and dropped deft. It really is only useful vs CW and with speed swindle and the 2 dodges I can keep up with there 3 teles fine .... Never had a use for deft strike vs other classes. Honestly the only thin I found it to excel at was stealing kill s from my teammates.
I mentioned proper advantage, but never mentioned against whom. I have no movement speed increase, so it comes in handy after that second roll vs. the third teleport.
One thing I find interesting about many of these replies from others (not you of course), they often speak about a rogues high burst dmg...yet never mention how easy it is to avoid. Can't be THAT difficult to simply walk behind them... *grins*
As for CW I think its probably one of the most solid classes that doesn't need op or badly thought out abilities, that being said the class needs more power and shorter animation, most of the core spells you can see coming and have time to counter. (My mains a GF)
You sir, are correct. Cw is fine, all it needs are shorter animations and FFS silent Ice Knife. It is so easy to dodge, you dont even need to see cw casting it you can just hear it and automaticaly dodge. We are forced to cast our daily when target is CCed and that is just wrong. Also i would appreciate ability to cancel those ridiculously long animations.
Perma-stealth rogue is not op, if you catch them you can two shot them.
Last match the other team had a fun fun high skill rogue playing.
He would stealth. Lashing from stealth. Hit ITC and then impact shot once or.
Over and Over again. Just playing a counter CW class for cheap and easy kills.
If you didn't die from lashing what do you do. You cant CC him. He takes two hits to kill as highly geared as I can get.
So hit Tab 1 button 1 button 1 button. over and over again.
That takes zero skill at all. It can't be countered by a CW.
Enough is enough.
Gaunt BG last night. Rogues made up 20% of the players. Got 43% of the kills. Top 3 highest all rogues.
Had enough of your game.
And for your rogues that think your skilled. On boss fights you deal with one target. Just one. As a CW I have up 15-20 targets plus various red zones of AOE. I have the least amount of mitigation and have to deal with those targets while the AS is down or its a wipe. I have to protect the healer at the same time or its a wipe.
On CN if I don't round those targets up and punt them at just the right time every time its a wipe. If we don't have them all out by a certain time its all over.
You guys hit one target. Takes lots of skill to do that.
Man, so mad haha. But appart from that, I main a fully geared (well I wished I had a perfect Vorpal//soulforged) PVP CW. I run CN often with it. I also got a TR. And seriously, TR is one of the least dangerous // most annoying class imo. They are annoying because they can run away in stealth. But dangerous? HAHA. If you ever get hit by that lashing blade, shame on you. It's so obvious to see...
Try this, when you see them going invisible (if you dont see them, you're problem), assume they are going for you and calculate roughly until they are on you. Teleport at that time and... magic, the TR appears with a puzzled face in front of you. You can also run towards them, it always makes them even more foolish.
I in fact consider CW a counter-TR because of the 3 teleports, and possible repel if you're using it. TR's are more of a pain on my DC, to be honest.
I have a 60 TR CW and DC, and after trying them all, I would say the CW is pretty much on par with the TR difficulty-wise. Probably even harder if he's bunched with a cw who can't do his job properly. The hardest is definetly the DC because you have to constantly watch over everybody's health bar. Otherwise...
I mentioned proper advantage, but never mentioned against whom. I have no movement speed increase, so it comes in handy after that second roll vs. the third teleport.
One thing I find interesting about many of these replies from others (not you of course), they often speak about a rogues high burst dmg...yet never mention how easy it is to avoid. Can't be THAT difficult to simply walk behind them... *grins*
Yea having no movement advantages then deft strike is probably more needed. I have speed swindle, increased speed in stealth, And use the chaos of battle ... And highgrounds to get the drop on the opponent. We should be super easy to avoid, but so many fail at it. I know on low health I can do quite the job kiting a rogue around until I can grab a pot.
-Sir Bartholomew P. Skibbenheims III, Esquire, Twice Removed
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pyroknight777Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited July 2013
I don't think anyone said CWs are not skilled...Anyways,most poeple don't understand the role of each class.See the thing is,TRs have really low health(not as low as CWs but still pretty low),and we are barely armored,so we take a lot of damage(It takes an Entangling Force and than that ice attack you guys get in the begining of the game to kill me out of stealth),hence why we rely on stealth to survive.Moreover,CWs aren't supposed to protect DCs really,they're just supposed to keep the mobs away from the team.GFs are the protectors of DCs and the members(The problem in NW is that most Guardian Fighters protect themselves instead of teammates),DCs are supposed to be the hardest target to reach,they're long ranged and should be protected by a GF to be able to heal teammates.They are not killers,so there damage is really low.And finally there is the GWF.He's your basic "destroyer".They just go into fights thrashing enemies.Hence why GWFs usually have high gear score.Anyways,anyone who hasn't played a STEALTH TR doesn't think it takes skill.Well I play one and I played against some,and can easily identify a good TR.I will copy a post from this thread to show you what I mean:
Anybody who thinks a rogue can beat anything with just two buttons is crazy. Between watching their stealth bar, timing their skills and trying to dodge out of danger, they need to be very good at multi-tasking. A rogue can never be still, if they stop moving, they die. A rogue is the true definition of what action means in action combat.
The first class I played was a Guardian Fighter. Slow, safe and incredibly boring. But a very good choice for somebody new to the game. After playing a 'stand still and hit things' class, I didn't think I'd like the rogue (too much darting and dodging) but it's become my favorite class.
I wish everyone would try playing a rogue. Then you'd see it takes a lot of skill. A rogue must not get hit, if they mess up their timing or don't dodge fast enough, one blow can remove 3/4 of their life (and that's just in PvE!). Stealth is the only thing that keeps us alive and a rogue out of stealth is a very pitiful creature indeed.
So I hope you realize that playing a stealth built rogue is something that requires skill to do.
_________
@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
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pyroknight777Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited July 2013
NOTE: Im reading the comments and will be replying to some.
except a cleric with an astral shield is going to be slaughtered just as easily by a nicely geared rogue that knows how to play
That is not true at all.I am a nicely geared rogue(10K GS)and I am a stealth rogue.I cannot kill a DC which uses Astral Shield.Its just impossible.My Lashing Blade doesn't take out a quarter of their health.I usually just wait for it to disappear and then attack but by then,i am flanked by enemies so I choose to run and leave the DC.
_________
@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
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pyroknight777Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited July 2013
Oh also,the thing that makes CWs easy target for TRs,is there predictability...You guys just use your abilities consecutively which makes you easy targets.A rogue can just pop a "shadow" and you guys might attack it,or he could go Impossible to Catch and you guys would waste your moves as he dodges them easily and then get beaten.I dont have a hard time killing these types of mages,but other mages like one of my friends who use an "Ice build" or other builds are really hard to beat.And they slow me down a lot...
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@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
I don't think anyone said CWs are not skilled...Anyways,most poeple don't understand the role of each class.See the thing is,TRs have really low health(not as low as CWs but still pretty low)
If somehow a TR could get 33K HP, and that's assuming they geared nothing but pvp gear and slotted every defense (2 slots BTW) slot with rank 7/8 Radiant Enchants, they would be several sacrificing on a lot of other avenues of their stats.
Just so yall know.. not ALL tr's are unskilled. I have a level... uhm... yeah 20 tr that i play with my gf on, and i can dominate any class in pvp with it. My main is a lvl34 cw which I completly pwn with in pvp... and for the people that forgot what a CC does it's Crowd Control. You're not supposed to have the most kills by far in pvp, But you should have the most assists... You stay in the background weakening the enemy team as a whole... So what if you can't beat a TR 1v1??? You're not supposed to! you're supposed to help other melee fighter kill the enemies... Why does everybody forget the roles of each class when a new game comes around???
Why does everybody forget the roles of each class when a new game comes around???
PvP has rewards that atm don't apply to working together as long as you win. And if a party isn't Roflstomp more powerful that all the individual members of your not quite team against the other side they in ever increasing numbers just /leave and hope to join a new not quite team of rolfmstompers.
Comments
So what? win or lose, you gain PvP glory.
if you disagree you should check out my stream sometime. just need to understand your class more tbh. gear doesn't matter. ive never seen you guys play but im assuming you don't predict anything, your positioning is probably pretty poor, and you probably don't really understand the mechanics of a cw. not trash talkin just sayin, cws are nuts in pvp if you know how to play them, they counter everything except a tr, and trs are easily to handle unless theyre a top tier pvper.
lasts maybe enough to run three or four meters. And you're still getting hit in the process, unless the opponent is also a charge-less Melee. That is, a gwf.
and I just saw this post, and hes correct, shadow weaver 4 set is horrible. if you would ever use a 4 set in pvp it would be vizier, which I still don't recommend, the best route to go is 2x sw 2x magelord.
NOTHING short of the above will make your crybabies happy. NOTHING.
And give to the boss the ability to see them, should be obvious to avoid silly soloing down.
and about the screenshot, so 13 against 15? a first GG after patch? really not full? i have a doubt, but assuming you are right, it was the fisrt or second time for everyone, the red team was weak it's obvious, ok?
So the conclusion is obvious, even in a weak team a rougue can make easy free kill, due to the perma stealth OP mode, but fortunately for us one of them is not enough to win a domination match.
cool story bro
What are you talking about? If you are going to make a complaint, how about actually making one? I don't exploit and I don't even use that terrible perma stealth build. Unless you are absolutely terrible, there is no reason to repeatedly die on any template against it.
Lolz...dumb enough to use deft strike? That *dumb* move helps a rogue compete vs. a CWs three teles (rogue only has double roll).
Any rogue worth their salt (not using the crappy stealth build) will use deft strike for proper advantage...
Want to see the difference between normal game and spawn camping one? just look at ASSISTS.
Normal game:
spawn camp:
Do some research before you post nonsense.
Actually rogues do take skill. It just goes out the window when people make various guides to tell/show them how to play thier classes without them learning for themselves. So as much as I want to blame the people that go the easy routes, I also blame the people that make the guides for them which these people just copy from.
Its pretty easy to be a cheese ball and cloak -> kill steal for a high K/D ratio... Usually when ppl complain thats a big issue. That being said to play a class against GOOD people will take skill with any class...
Its just easier to play a class that does incredibly high burst damage who is also no visible... Its also easy to play a class that can face tank 3 people and still take them out 1 by 1 because of high regen and burst... Does it take skill vs good players? YOu bet it does... But in pugs, its rollfaceonkeyboard=win
There is a ton of rock paper scissors in this game where certain classes that are certain specs just cant do anything against other classes that are certain specs... Its just the way games have always been...
As for the guides. Some post to help out, some post to show how OP a build is... Just know if your gonna copy someone you probably wont be better than the person you copied because experience = knowledge as well... Just copying a build doesnt help you know the str and weaknesses with it.
As always just knowing how each class is played and the abilities will help you FAR more than copying a leet build.
I run exec and dropped deft. It really is only useful vs CW and with speed swindle and the 2 dodges I can keep up with there 3 teles fine .... Never had a use for deft strike vs other classes. Honestly the only thin I found it to excel at was stealing kill s from my teammates.
Got bored of your CW? I got bored of my GF.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Now trs will have a harder time getting behind you.
You need quick reflexes. Whwn they pop itc you have to kite.
Play a tr. You will quickly understand how they move in stealth. Once ypu know that they are pretty easy to dodge.
Yeah right, CW isolates TR. +90% of cases its the other way around. Then you have a 2 v 2. TR gets annihilated instantly after killing the CW (unless that miserable thing is is permastealth then it is 300 v 2).
There is a deathmatch mode in this game, it is called CW vs rogue.
One thing I find interesting about many of these replies from others (not you of course), they often speak about a rogues high burst dmg...yet never mention how easy it is to avoid. Can't be THAT difficult to simply walk behind them... *grins*
You sir, are correct. Cw is fine, all it needs are shorter animations and FFS silent Ice Knife. It is so easy to dodge, you dont even need to see cw casting it you can just hear it and automaticaly dodge. We are forced to cast our daily when target is CCed and that is just wrong. Also i would appreciate ability to cancel those ridiculously long animations.
Perma-stealth rogue is not op, if you catch them you can two shot them.
Man, so mad haha. But appart from that, I main a fully geared (well I wished I had a perfect Vorpal//soulforged) PVP CW. I run CN often with it. I also got a TR. And seriously, TR is one of the least dangerous // most annoying class imo. They are annoying because they can run away in stealth. But dangerous? HAHA. If you ever get hit by that lashing blade, shame on you. It's so obvious to see...
Try this, when you see them going invisible (if you dont see them, you're problem), assume they are going for you and calculate roughly until they are on you. Teleport at that time and... magic, the TR appears with a puzzled face in front of you. You can also run towards them, it always makes them even more foolish.
I in fact consider CW a counter-TR because of the 3 teleports, and possible repel if you're using it. TR's are more of a pain on my DC, to be honest.
I have a 60 TR CW and DC, and after trying them all, I would say the CW is pretty much on par with the TR difficulty-wise. Probably even harder if he's bunched with a cw who can't do his job properly. The hardest is definetly the DC because you have to constantly watch over everybody's health bar. Otherwise...
Fail Thread man
Bye
Here for the build+guide
Yea having no movement advantages then deft strike is probably more needed. I have speed swindle, increased speed in stealth, And use the chaos of battle ... And highgrounds to get the drop on the opponent. We should be super easy to avoid, but so many fail at it. I know on low health I can do quite the job kiting a rogue around until I can grab a pot.
So I hope you realize that playing a stealth built rogue is something that requires skill to do.
@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
That is not true at all.I am a nicely geared rogue(10K GS)and I am a stealth rogue.I cannot kill a DC which uses Astral Shield.Its just impossible.My Lashing Blade doesn't take out a quarter of their health.I usually just wait for it to disappear and then attack but by then,i am flanked by enemies so I choose to run and leave the DC.
@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
@pyroknight777 in the game ^_^ Don't worry if you see me stalking you...my characters are kind of "new" to social life...I mean how would you think a fire demon-turned hero would react to a girl if all he sees in hell are half-naked devilish women...
33k hp is low?
i have yet to see a rogue with 33k HP lol, and honestly there arent those many tanks with that health either, your QQ lvl is over 9000
If somehow a TR could get 33K HP, and that's assuming they geared nothing but pvp gear and slotted every defense (2 slots BTW) slot with rank 7/8 Radiant Enchants, they would be several sacrificing on a lot of other avenues of their stats.
If Cryptic really thinks dying instantly all the time is fun in PvP they can shove it.