Pretty much my feelings on this, no one should assume their quest is going to get on the front page, it honestly shouldn't even be an authors main goal, the goal should be fun and sharing your stories and ideas with people willing to listen.
I don't think most care whether they hit front page. They just want to be on ANY page. The means which we have to find Foundry quests needs a major overhaul.
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shadowboxMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I don't think most care whether they hit front page. They just want to be on ANY page. The means which we have to find Foundry quests needs a major overhaul.
But that isn't anything the author can really effectively control, the problem lies with Cryptic and the way the foundry quests are sorted, i still don't agree with what he did regardless of the circumstance it is wrong and whether people admit it or not it effects the community in a negative way, this sort of thing only breeds more competition which i believe is toxic to this kind of community.
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cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
So OP, you preach about building up the community and then bash it at the very same time? Sounds very hypocritical to me.
Everyone seems to talk about all this backstabbing, etc. but I guess I haven't seen it yet since my first quest isn't published yet. Then after the apparently rampant backstabbing we have drama like this thread. I've seen the insults back and forth, but I'm really confused about the backstabbing part. Is it because of ratings? If so why can't authors just agree not to rate a fellow author's quest if they would give it a poor rating? Just critique on the forums instead.
And if this is just to try to lower ratings of rival authors, why don't we pull together to help authors targeted by such things? It seems every time I make it public that I gave a fellow author another 5 star rating to help them out others here accuse me either abusing the system or giving a dishonest rating. Well, you can't please everybody I guess. What I'd like to see is a stop to the personal attacks, insults, etc. That should be a first step in keeping the Foundry forum from becoming like General.
For what it's worth: I love you all!
Every single author.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] The entire campaign can be found here:NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture
So OP, you preach about building up the community and then bash it at the very same time? Sounds very hypocritical to me.
Everyone seems to talk about all this backstabbing, etc. but I guess I haven't seen it yet since my first quest isn't published yet. Then after the apparently rampant backstabbing we have drama like this thread. I've seen the insults back and forth, but I'm really confused about the backstabbing part. Is it because of ratings? If so why can't authors just agree not to rate a fellow author's quest if they would give it a poor rating? Just critique on the forums instead.
And if this is just to try to lower ratings of rival authors, why don't we pull together to help authors targeted by such things? It seems every time I make it public that I gave a fellow author another 5 star rating to help them out others here accuse me either abusing the system or giving a dishonest rating. Well, you can't please everybody I guess. What I'd like to see is a stop to the personal attacks, insults, etc. That should be a first step in keeping the Foundry forum from becoming like General.
Dont take my honesty as an insult. This community is deplorable...and we all point fingers at that person or that person....instead of accepting the blame ourselves and growing up. Yes...there is a lot of backstabbing....and bickering...and name calling...it is truly pathetic...and that isnt a insult, its the truth.
What needs to change is we need to all leave it behind us and start over...
My quest was deleted in July of 2013. There were no issues, it had not violated any rules. Was deemed a bug. That quest is still missing.
RIP - Dirty Politics May 21st, 2013 - July 30th, 2013
Normally, I try to avoid the drama. But these forums are a pretty good resource, so I do spend a lot of time here.
The drama threads are pretty easy to ignore. My pet peeve though is thread titles like "will trade reviews". Please name your thread after your quest, if you want me to read it. And I think it helps if you put a link to your review thread in you sig.
You can't start over now. As much as I would love to go back to the way it was in foundry beta and early open beta it's just not going to be the same. Too many special little snowflakes who believe their **** don't stink and when you ask what that smell is they bomb you with insults and, although I have never seen any proof of it personally, they do reportedly have their friends bomb your quests with bad ratings.
I blame the star rating system. It's HAMSTER and should go away and replaced with just a system where the player (and other authors) can effectively search by genre, author or quest name. When you introduce a competitive system like the star rating its going to bring out the competitive nature in people which often times can be ugly.
I hate what the system has brought about in the community.
There is a rumor floating around that I am working on a new foundry quest. It was started by me.
This is the Foundry.
The Authors community. If you are not mature enough to support the efforts and appreciate the time others spend on their creations then frankly you don't belong here.
The root cause of the drama is not the people within the community. It is the review system itself. The "Can't we all get along" point is well intentioned but it will do little to stop what is happening in the community. The review systems flaws have brought out the worst in people. Those flaws need to be resolved. There are many differing opinions within the community as to what needs to change in the review system. Some think no changes are needed. Some thing minor changes are needed. Some think a complete overhaul is needed. So to avoid a major topic shift, I won't get into that here.
My main point in regards to your post is this. Your pleas for change should be directed at the foundry development team and not the people within the community.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NW-DMIME87F5
Awaiting a serious response from the developers on the abuse of the review system by other authors. Video Preview
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cipher9nemoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The root cause of the drama is not the people within the community. It is the review system itself. The "Can't we all get along" point is well intentioned but it will do little to stop what is happening in the community. The review systems flaws have brought out the worst in people. Those flaws need to be resolved. There are many differing opinions within the community as to what needs to change in the review system. Some think no changes are needed. Some thing minor changes are needed. Some think a complete overhaul is needed. So to avoid a major topic shift, I won't get into that here.
My main point in regards to your post is this. Your pleas for change should be directed at the foundry development team and not the people within the community.
Aside from some petty insults and such, I don't see the rivalry back-stabbing on the forums as people claim is happening within the rating system. So without seeing that side of it, I'd have to agree with you ovaltine.
I generally dislike threads that stir up drama like this one. There are great ways to build up communities by encouraging each other, starting positive threads, etc., but this thread obviously isn't one of them. While I appreciate the OP's interest in improving the community, I think the approach needs work. It sort of reminds me of misguided parenthood: teach your kids not to do something, then turn around and do it yourself. Leading and teaching by example is a much better path.
I generally dislike threads that stir up drama like this one. There are great ways to build up communities by encouraging each other, starting positive threads, etc., but this thread obviously isn't one of them.
If there is bad stuff going on, someone has to call it out. And someone has to deal with the consequences of calling it out, which can be bad too. But the consequences of not calling it out will be worse.
If there is bad stuff going on, someone has to call it out. And someone has to deal with the consequences of calling it out, which can be bad too. But the consequences of not calling it out will be worse.
I agree that is how things are, but I must again point out that the abuse of one author by another author is the result of a completely separate part of a larger problem. The solution is analytical. We must look at the problem in all its separate parts, deduce the cause and effects of each, and reason backwards from the end result to the source and make our corrections there. Only then will this cancer in our community diminish.
Edit: The moderators in this forum have suggested reporting those in game who commit behavior violations. I have also been sent private messages by other authors to join their campaign of mass reporting individuals for behavior violations. I have acted on neither. I feel that is attacking the result and not the source of the problem, which is a waste of time.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NW-DMIME87F5
Awaiting a serious response from the developers on the abuse of the review system by other authors. Video Preview
Shorlong admit it, you are actually the leader of the Dark Creed.
The Dark Creed of making no sense:
Try on...Don't take my honesty as an insult. Shorlong is deplorable.
Can you maybe see that's actually an opinionated insult that I'm saying isn't an insult?
Just wanted to lay down some education in yer thread. Please meditate on the wisdom of my teachings to you.
So....you have what authority? You got a lot of plays, big whoopty doo. I am being honest. I mean, look, a thread that was started with the intention of maybe making some people open their eyes and go "You know, maybe we should change things and all this bickering and fighting will stop", and yet you and several others want to turn it around and focus on the one to two little bad things I had mentioned.
What I did was not an attack, it was merely stating the fact that we have (myself included) fallen into depravity. We have taken a community that should be working together and instead have split it up, sectioned ourselves off, and have reverted back to high school where all the cliques dislike each other and everyone is against everyone.
It's like some of us are out to "win" the Foundry. What is there to win? NOTHING! Just make quests, enjoy the quests others make, grow some thick skin, stop treating each other like HAMSTER, accept criticism when it is needed and let the past GO.
But then, I'm on the internet....I guess I expect too much...
My quest was deleted in July of 2013. There were no issues, it had not violated any rules. Was deemed a bug. That quest is still missing.
RIP - Dirty Politics May 21st, 2013 - July 30th, 2013
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What I did was not an attack, it was merely stating the fact that we have (myself included) fallen into depravity.
The concept of depravity is entirely subjective. Some of us believe in the golden rule, and do unto others as they would do unto us; and some of us believe do as you will is the whole of the law.
So, a few pages back I said I had a couple of ideas about how to swing things around, then had to head to bed, it was after 1am here.
So here I am, freshly filled with bacon, egg and coffee.
My ideas:
1) Honesty: start being honest with ourselves (individually) that people have the right to 1 Star us if they want to. Yes, we'd like some constructive feedback with that 1*, but we can't make that happen.
2) Honesty: with ourselves as a group; there will be some competition here, we'd all like to be "best" and there is only one of them. So we need to realise that a less combative way of working towards that is to make everyone "better". That means:
3) Honesty: as reviewers and reviewees. I have used the "Review Trade" thing twice so far - I have no intention of using it for my "Part 3". Because there is an implicit expectation that in a "review trade" we are actually asking for "good review trades".
4) Review Trades Serve A Purpose: its a way of getting out of "review hell", and unless we fill the gap that abandoning review trades would create we are all going to find it harder to get our quests out of review hell. So what do we do?
5) Review Pass It On: If you review me I'll review someone else (ash4ll's review thread is very, very much based on this). It breaks the implied bargain between reviewer and reviewee, because the relationship is now linear, not circular.
6) Review To Review: Starting next Monday I intend to review 1 "new" Foundry a day, and offer feedback via PM. I'll no longer be asking people who wants this service from me, I'll just look on the forums and see what's new and start reviewing. If we all did that, time permitting, there'd be no real reason for any Foundry Quest to be stuck in "review hell" for longer than a couple of day.
7) Review Guidelines: It'd be nice if we would all voluntarily choose to work towards using a similar set of guidelines for reviews. I suggest we start a thread to hash that out, but I think we all have a rough idea of how it works.
8) This one needs a Mod's / Community Manager's help A "For Review Sticky", a stickied thread where we can all pop a single post asking for Reviews, there would be no feedback provided in this thread (so we'd need a Mod to help keep it that way), only requests for a review. The request post should contain a) Name, b) Short-Code, c) Duration, d) brief description, e) and specific things the reviewee wants the reviewer to pay special attention to and f) a link to the Feedback Thread for that specific quest.
9) Review To Go In Quest Feedback Thread: I see a lot of people posting reviews of other people's quests in the thread for the reviews for their own quest - be honest here - that's shameless "bump" stealing - you are supposed to be helping another player get out of "review hell", but choose to advertise and bump your own quest, not theirs. That is "combative" not "co-operative". We need to move from the former to the latter.
That's about it, maybe too much coffee (or bacon and egg) fuelled this a bit, I don't know.
Now, I'm happy to take criticism for any of these ideas, but if you can't keep it constructive/civil please send it via PM so as to avoid getting this thread locked. Thanks.
8) This one needs a Mod's / Community Manager's help A "For Review Sticky", a stickied thread where we can all pop a single post asking for Reviews, there would be no feedback provided in this thread (so we'd need a Mod to help keep it that way), only requests for a review. The request post should contain a) Name, b) Short-Code, c) Duration, d) brief description, e) and specific things the reviewee wants the reviewer to pay special attention to and f) a link to the Feedback Thread for that specific quest.
So, a few pages back. Thanks.
....
....
All The Best
Agree 110%
Once we start working like a mutually supportive community, and start accepting that by publishing we are opening ourselves up to equally valid views and opinions from other users that differ from our own, that's when we really start cooking.
The reason that us foundry author's are so easy to ignore is because we're constantly drowning each other out with constant noise and bickering. Once we start presenting an organised, united voice, I suspect that cryptic would have no alternative but to start listening to us.
First off, I'd like to note, this is not a "boohoo, whoa is me, everything sucks, someone pay attention to me" thread. This isn't directed at Cryptic and the bugs that hinder us, or the limitations, or even that the Foundry goes down more often than Michael Douglas.
No, this is a thread directed at us, the community. Never in my life have I seen such pandering, such backstabbing, suck butt-kissing, such name calling, all out hatred and low-life activities as I have here. Yeah, sometimes it can be entertaining, and hey, I'm no angel, I've been caught up in the drama plenty myself.
But seriously, people, get over it. Get over yourselves. We need to build each other up, not knock each other down. So what if you disagree with someone, get the **** over it and grow up. Don't like someone? Don't respond to their threads, no need to comment to throw some snide remark. Someone criticized your quest? Boohoo, don't put your quest into public domain.
You're quest got 1-star ratings? Big freaking deal, you're still getting plays. Someone sent you a message saying that your quest needs a lot of work? Awesome, let them be jerks. Don't go run their quest just to purposely one star them.
Seriously, this is worse than high school. You people (broad generalization, some of you are awesome) need to grow up. Support each other. Don't like someone? Pretend they don't exist. There is no need for you to go posting on a thread laughing because someone is having problems, no need to bash someone because they didn't like your quest.
And for the record, if you are one of the worthless people who bribe, buy your reviews, and then go out of your way to give others one star reviews, then you are the biggest problem here. Seriously, stop worrying about how your e-peen looks and grow up.
Now, that being said, I would like to comment on two people I see posting on the forums: Zovya and Lovepeas. You two are the kindest, most uplifting and positive people I have met. If the rest of the community could be like you, this would be an amazing place.
Unfortunately, we have people starting threads to call others out, posting in general discussion to BUY 5-star reviews, people one-star bombing other quests, breaking the rules, and making this one of the WORST communities I have ever belonged to.
So, what does this mean for me? Well, I'm not quitting, as that would go against my anti-"bring attention to myself" point I made earlier. I'm sticking around, and I'm going to make some quests. Want to play them? Awesome, play them. Want to bash them because you disagree with me or because I made you angry somehow on the forums? Awesome, go right ahead. Want to start a campaign making others downvote difficult quests for stacking encounters, or putting in lots of reading, or mazes, or puzzles, or anything else you don't like? Be my guest. I'll play your quests, and I will rate them fairly with a rating they deserve. I will earn my reviews the right way, I will do what I can to BUILD this community up, instead of trying everything in my power to bring it down.
You people make me sick. Try to rise up and be the bigger men (women? people? authors?) instead of being the lowest common denominator.
Look, this is my take on it. Cryptic is not going to remove the star system. There will always be trolls and dimwits who one star for revenge, position in the catalog, and just not knowing what limitations authors have in the foundry. That's never going away. My issue is if a person or a guild is systematically 1 starring authors or exploiting the foundry through the catalog or their quest. BAN them. if you ban their main account with all their quests, currency, lvl 50 toons, and paid -for do-dads, I promise you this HAMSTER will end. It's easy enough to track IPs, friends lists, and guild affiliation. The random 1 star is going to happen. Getting bombed by alt accounts is where Cryptic needs to step in. Otherwise, authiors will either get fed up and toss in the towel, or they will just make 20 new accounts and have a good ol'fashioned star wars. Nobody want either.
NW-DT4OV7EXH
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
Star system is ok, although sorting by it creates unnecessary competition.
Solution 1: taking 200 top quests for the top list. Display 20 quests from the list out of random.
Solution 2: no best tab
also: foundry could be paid function. Even 500 zen. It's easily obtainable, cause Ihave that amount and I'm really seldom player.
Most of it through praying.
I agree with you OP 100%. I read your post and wondered if in some alternate reality I had actually written it myself, it was that close to how I would have worded it.
On the flip side, as much as we want things to change, they won't. As has been pointed out here by quite a few of the folks there will always be the idiots, it's the same as every walk of life.
For me the foundry is about making friends and sharing ideas. I know who I like on this foundry forum, and that list is growing daily by peoples actions and words. You just made it to that list too.
There are a lot of decent folk on this forum still, don't be too disheartened.
Star system is ok, although sorting by it creates unnecessary competition.
Solution 1: taking 200 top quests for the top list. Display 20 quests from the list out of random.
Solution 2: no best tab
also: foundry could be paid function. Even 500 zen. It's easily obtainable, cause Ihave that amount and I'm really seldom player.
Most of it through praying.
Well if Cryptic just stuck to their guys with the committee/council idea they had early on, for best page choices, this star system would be even less of an issue. It would solve a lot of problems.
NW-DT4OV7EXH
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
3) Honesty: as reviewers and reviewees. I have used the "Review Trade" thing twice so far - I have no intention of using it for my "Part 3". Because there is an implicit expectation that in a "review trade" we are actually asking for "good review trades".
Indeed. I’m trying to keep away from review trading too, I get the feeling there’s an unspoken understanding as to what it really means.
Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
You are right - review trading is distasteful. Instead I am just going to start paying AD for 5 star reviews. That seems far more legit.
I don't see how it is distasteful if your only significant online presence is this forum, and you're competing with youtube streamers and forum mods with hundreds of devotees and adoring fans willing to five star them to the top of the list whether their quest is mind-numbingly simple, or far too difficult and frustrating for a typical player to complete. Some of these quests, while good, would NEVER have made the best list or been featured if it weren't for the tons of bias votes due to reputation. Plus we have numerous troll ratings like that one you even PMed me about that we have to make up for. Some of them were over me choosing the exact same sky back-drop for my quest as what you have in your sig. If we're going to outlaw review trades, contests, and give-aways, why don't we outlaw advertising on other sites, not allow Foundry authors to join guilds, or have friends, and make it mandatory that we check their Facebooks to make sure their buddies aren't skewing the rating system by giving them unjustly stellar ratings. Hm?
Another thing, why is that blatant exploit map still up? Are we so busy pointing fingers at each other and spewing vitriol that we can't even notice the real elephant in the room? Oh wait, some of the authors griping the most about dzogen and I are the ones I have screencaps of rating this quest five stars. You know who you are, be glad I'm above naming and shaming you.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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xhritMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't see how it is distasteful if your only significant online presence is this forum, and you're competing with youtube streamers and forum mods with hundreds of devotees and adoring fans willing to five star them to the top of the list whether their quest is mind-numbingly simple, or far too difficult and frustrating for a typical player to complete.
Sigh. You actually think these exploit quests get 100s of 5 star reviews almost instantaneously by having friends vote them up? That is not how they do it... They use bots.
Comments
I don't think most care whether they hit front page. They just want to be on ANY page.
But that isn't anything the author can really effectively control, the problem lies with Cryptic and the way the foundry quests are sorted, i still don't agree with what he did regardless of the circumstance it is wrong and whether people admit it or not it effects the community in a negative way, this sort of thing only breeds more competition which i believe is toxic to this kind of community.
Everyone seems to talk about all this backstabbing, etc. but I guess I haven't seen it yet since my first quest isn't published yet. Then after the apparently rampant backstabbing we have drama like this thread. I've seen the insults back and forth, but I'm really confused about the backstabbing part. Is it because of ratings? If so why can't authors just agree not to rate a fellow author's quest if they would give it a poor rating? Just critique on the forums instead.
And if this is just to try to lower ratings of rival authors, why don't we pull together to help authors targeted by such things? It seems every time I make it public that I gave a fellow author another 5 star rating to help them out others here accuse me either abusing the system or giving a dishonest rating. Well, you can't please everybody I guess. What I'd like to see is a stop to the personal attacks, insults, etc. That should be a first step in keeping the Foundry forum from becoming like General.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
Every single author.
The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC
Individual quests:
1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture
Dont take my honesty as an insult. This community is deplorable...and we all point fingers at that person or that person....instead of accepting the blame ourselves and growing up. Yes...there is a lot of backstabbing....and bickering...and name calling...it is truly pathetic...and that isnt a insult, its the truth.
What needs to change is we need to all leave it behind us and start over...
RIP - Dirty Politics May 21st, 2013 - July 30th, 2013
The drama threads are pretty easy to ignore. My pet peeve though is thread titles like "will trade reviews". Please name your thread after your quest, if you want me to read it. And I think it helps if you put a link to your review thread in you sig.
Carry on.
The Cursed Emerald:
I blame the star rating system. It's HAMSTER and should go away and replaced with just a system where the player (and other authors) can effectively search by genre, author or quest name. When you introduce a competitive system like the star rating its going to bring out the competitive nature in people which often times can be ugly.
I hate what the system has brought about in the community.
The Authors community.
If you are not mature enough to support the efforts and appreciate the time others spend on their creations then frankly you don't belong here.
Respect begets respect.
The Dark Creed of making no sense:
Try on...Don't take my honesty as an insult. Shorlong is deplorable.
Can you maybe see that's actually an opinionated insult that I'm saying isn't an insult?
Just wanted to lay down some education in yer thread. Please meditate on the wisdom of my teachings to you.
Bill's Tavern | The 27th Level | Secret Agent 34
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
The root cause of the drama is not the people within the community. It is the review system itself. The "Can't we all get along" point is well intentioned but it will do little to stop what is happening in the community. The review systems flaws have brought out the worst in people. Those flaws need to be resolved. There are many differing opinions within the community as to what needs to change in the review system. Some think no changes are needed. Some thing minor changes are needed. Some think a complete overhaul is needed. So to avoid a major topic shift, I won't get into that here.
My main point in regards to your post is this. Your pleas for change should be directed at the foundry development team and not the people within the community.
NW-DMIME87F5
Awaiting a serious response from the developers on the abuse of the review system by other authors.
Video Preview
Aside from some petty insults and such, I don't see the rivalry back-stabbing on the forums as people claim is happening within the rating system. So without seeing that side of it, I'd have to agree with you ovaltine.
I generally dislike threads that stir up drama like this one. There are great ways to build up communities by encouraging each other, starting positive threads, etc., but this thread obviously isn't one of them. While I appreciate the OP's interest in improving the community, I think the approach needs work. It sort of reminds me of misguided parenthood: teach your kids not to do something, then turn around and do it yourself. Leading and teaching by example is a much better path.
Hammerfist Clan. Jump into the Night: NW-DMXWRYTAD
If there is bad stuff going on, someone has to call it out. And someone has to deal with the consequences of calling it out, which can be bad too. But the consequences of not calling it out will be worse.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
I agree that is how things are, but I must again point out that the abuse of one author by another author is the result of a completely separate part of a larger problem. The solution is analytical. We must look at the problem in all its separate parts, deduce the cause and effects of each, and reason backwards from the end result to the source and make our corrections there. Only then will this cancer in our community diminish.
Edit: The moderators in this forum have suggested reporting those in game who commit behavior violations. I have also been sent private messages by other authors to join their campaign of mass reporting individuals for behavior violations. I have acted on neither. I feel that is attacking the result and not the source of the problem, which is a waste of time.
NW-DMIME87F5
Awaiting a serious response from the developers on the abuse of the review system by other authors.
Video Preview
So....you have what authority? You got a lot of plays, big whoopty doo. I am being honest. I mean, look, a thread that was started with the intention of maybe making some people open their eyes and go "You know, maybe we should change things and all this bickering and fighting will stop", and yet you and several others want to turn it around and focus on the one to two little bad things I had mentioned.
What I did was not an attack, it was merely stating the fact that we have (myself included) fallen into depravity. We have taken a community that should be working together and instead have split it up, sectioned ourselves off, and have reverted back to high school where all the cliques dislike each other and everyone is against everyone.
It's like some of us are out to "win" the Foundry. What is there to win? NOTHING! Just make quests, enjoy the quests others make, grow some thick skin, stop treating each other like HAMSTER, accept criticism when it is needed and let the past GO.
But then, I'm on the internet....I guess I expect too much...
RIP - Dirty Politics May 21st, 2013 - July 30th, 2013
The concept of depravity is entirely subjective. Some of us believe in the golden rule, and do unto others as they would do unto us; and some of us believe do as you will is the whole of the law.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
So here I am, freshly filled with bacon, egg and coffee.
My ideas:
1) Honesty: start being honest with ourselves (individually) that people have the right to 1 Star us if they want to. Yes, we'd like some constructive feedback with that 1*, but we can't make that happen.
2) Honesty: with ourselves as a group; there will be some competition here, we'd all like to be "best" and there is only one of them. So we need to realise that a less combative way of working towards that is to make everyone "better". That means:
3) Honesty: as reviewers and reviewees. I have used the "Review Trade" thing twice so far - I have no intention of using it for my "Part 3". Because there is an implicit expectation that in a "review trade" we are actually asking for "good review trades".
4) Review Trades Serve A Purpose: its a way of getting out of "review hell", and unless we fill the gap that abandoning review trades would create we are all going to find it harder to get our quests out of review hell. So what do we do?
5) Review Pass It On: If you review me I'll review someone else (ash4ll's review thread is very, very much based on this). It breaks the implied bargain between reviewer and reviewee, because the relationship is now linear, not circular.
6) Review To Review: Starting next Monday I intend to review 1 "new" Foundry a day, and offer feedback via PM. I'll no longer be asking people who wants this service from me, I'll just look on the forums and see what's new and start reviewing. If we all did that, time permitting, there'd be no real reason for any Foundry Quest to be stuck in "review hell" for longer than a couple of day.
7) Review Guidelines: It'd be nice if we would all voluntarily choose to work towards using a similar set of guidelines for reviews. I suggest we start a thread to hash that out, but I think we all have a rough idea of how it works.
8) This one needs a Mod's / Community Manager's help A "For Review Sticky", a stickied thread where we can all pop a single post asking for Reviews, there would be no feedback provided in this thread (so we'd need a Mod to help keep it that way), only requests for a review. The request post should contain a) Name, b) Short-Code, c) Duration, d) brief description, e) and specific things the reviewee wants the reviewer to pay special attention to and f) a link to the Feedback Thread for that specific quest.
9) Review To Go In Quest Feedback Thread: I see a lot of people posting reviews of other people's quests in the thread for the reviews for their own quest - be honest here - that's shameless "bump" stealing - you are supposed to be helping another player get out of "review hell", but choose to advertise and bump your own quest, not theirs. That is "combative" not "co-operative". We need to move from the former to the latter.
That's about it, maybe too much coffee (or bacon and egg) fuelled this a bit, I don't know.
Now, I'm happy to take criticism for any of these ideas, but if you can't keep it constructive/civil please send it via PM so as to avoid getting this thread locked. Thanks.
All The Best
Looking For Reviews For Your Foundry Quest?
Drop By Scribe's Enclave & Meet Up With Volunteer Reviewers.
The-Foundry-List-of-UGC-and-Authors
PS. Besides, you can review quests from my list.
Siegebreaker - NW-DGDPWV2U5 - story about the ambush, escape and great rescue of the city.
I'm a streamer and I know it!
Agree 110%
Once we start working like a mutually supportive community, and start accepting that by publishing we are opening ourselves up to equally valid views and opinions from other users that differ from our own, that's when we really start cooking.
The reason that us foundry author's are so easy to ignore is because we're constantly drowning each other out with constant noise and bickering. Once we start presenting an organised, united voice, I suspect that cryptic would have no alternative but to start listening to us.
Look, this is my take on it. Cryptic is not going to remove the star system. There will always be trolls and dimwits who one star for revenge, position in the catalog, and just not knowing what limitations authors have in the foundry. That's never going away. My issue is if a person or a guild is systematically 1 starring authors or exploiting the foundry through the catalog or their quest. BAN them. if you ban their main account with all their quests, currency, lvl 50 toons, and paid -for do-dads, I promise you this HAMSTER will end. It's easy enough to track IPs, friends lists, and guild affiliation. The random 1 star is going to happen. Getting bombed by alt accounts is where Cryptic needs to step in. Otherwise, authiors will either get fed up and toss in the towel, or they will just make 20 new accounts and have a good ol'fashioned star wars. Nobody want either.
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
Solution 1: taking 200 top quests for the top list. Display 20 quests from the list out of random.
Solution 2: no best tab
also: foundry could be paid function. Even 500 zen. It's easily obtainable, cause Ihave that amount and I'm really seldom player.
Most of it through praying.
Siegebreaker - NW-DGDPWV2U5 - story about the ambush, escape and great rescue of the city.
I'm a streamer and I know it!
On the flip side, as much as we want things to change, they won't. As has been pointed out here by quite a few of the folks there will always be the idiots, it's the same as every walk of life.
For me the foundry is about making friends and sharing ideas. I know who I like on this foundry forum, and that list is growing daily by peoples actions and words. You just made it to that list too.
There are a lot of decent folk on this forum still, don't be too disheartened.
Art (aka Casek)
Part 1: A Mysterious Portal: - NW-DIKGSOTWT
Part 2: Into the forest: Out now - NW DAVOJC8N7
Part 3: Through the portal: 50% Finished!
Part 4: Lvl 113
Does YOUR FOUNDRY need more plays? Try this thread: Click here
Well if Cryptic just stuck to their guys with the committee/council idea they had early on, for best page choices, this star system would be even less of an issue. It would solve a lot of problems.
Every time they idiot-proof something...they make better idiots.
Gunz was an awesome game.
Indeed. I’m trying to keep away from review trading too, I get the feeling there’s an unspoken understanding as to what it really means.
Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
You are right - review trading is distasteful. Instead I am just going to start paying AD for 5 star reviews. That seems far more legit.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
I don't see how it is distasteful if your only significant online presence is this forum, and you're competing with youtube streamers and forum mods with hundreds of devotees and adoring fans willing to five star them to the top of the list whether their quest is mind-numbingly simple, or far too difficult and frustrating for a typical player to complete. Some of these quests, while good, would NEVER have made the best list or been featured if it weren't for the tons of bias votes due to reputation. Plus we have numerous troll ratings like that one you even PMed me about that we have to make up for. Some of them were over me choosing the exact same sky back-drop for my quest as what you have in your sig. If we're going to outlaw review trades, contests, and give-aways, why don't we outlaw advertising on other sites, not allow Foundry authors to join guilds, or have friends, and make it mandatory that we check their Facebooks to make sure their buddies aren't skewing the rating system by giving them unjustly stellar ratings. Hm?
Sigh. You actually think these exploit quests get 100s of 5 star reviews almost instantaneously by having friends vote them up? That is not how they do it... They use bots.
Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark