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Spider Temple Boss Strategy
chudovishye
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Thanks to everyone who gave pointers, was able to make ST an easy run, though still challenging. If you missed it, here's the original thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?392851-Spider-Temple-out-of-Hand&p=5015521&posted=1#post5015521
Now then, here's a list of pointers if you're having trouble with this boss.
1. Party should be 2 GWFs, TR, CW, DC or 2 TRs, GWF, CW, DC. GFs can cause a lot of problems. Unless they're extremely stacked, don't do it. Not recommended.
2. Everyone in the party has to have a GS of at least 10K, there's no being nice with guildies on this one. If they don't have it, forget it. The only exception to this is the TR, because if they're using smoke right and proper stealth, they can survive while still doing good damage, but I don't recommend them below 9K GS.
3. Now, easy to do the boss, but first you need to clear the adds. When you first enter, run QUICKLY to the left. She will NOT activate. Kill the spider adds. Run behind her over the stair area, kill the spiders on the right, then attack her.
4. When you begin the boss battle, the CW and DC should be between the boss and the DOOR. Do not go on the chest side.
5. DPS team needs to be encircling the boss and between her and the CHEST. The reason for this is simple. If you work your angles right and stay in a half-circle around her, she won't teleport as much, if at all. The chest side is important because the blademasters always attack what's closest to the chest, meaning they'll lunge right for the DPS group. Thus the 10K GS is critical, because it means you should have enough power to withstand their attacks as the DC drops shield.
6. DPS team, well, easy, you just beat the **** out of her. You'll know within a minute if you're going to beat this boss (an occasional wipe may be necessary if she ports too much). If you're not out DPSing her heals, forget it.
7. DC, do the usual. If your DC can't survive pretty well and isn't dropping shield fast enough, drop them. The higher the DC's GS, the better. Might even be safe to say they should be at least 11K to ensure victory on this one.
8. CW needs to have great control. Drawing adds into the boss will help keep her in place, as well as giving the GWF more damage (I stack damage significantly with more than two targets). When the masters are in red circles and about to explode, CW needs to pop them out. They can also attack when there is add downtime.
So that's it, follow these steps, and it's easy! Thanks again guys for all the pointers, I was just being too nice with who I allowed in there, GS is critical for this one.
Now then, here's a list of pointers if you're having trouble with this boss.
1. Party should be 2 GWFs, TR, CW, DC or 2 TRs, GWF, CW, DC. GFs can cause a lot of problems. Unless they're extremely stacked, don't do it. Not recommended.
2. Everyone in the party has to have a GS of at least 10K, there's no being nice with guildies on this one. If they don't have it, forget it. The only exception to this is the TR, because if they're using smoke right and proper stealth, they can survive while still doing good damage, but I don't recommend them below 9K GS.
3. Now, easy to do the boss, but first you need to clear the adds. When you first enter, run QUICKLY to the left. She will NOT activate. Kill the spider adds. Run behind her over the stair area, kill the spiders on the right, then attack her.
4. When you begin the boss battle, the CW and DC should be between the boss and the DOOR. Do not go on the chest side.
5. DPS team needs to be encircling the boss and between her and the CHEST. The reason for this is simple. If you work your angles right and stay in a half-circle around her, she won't teleport as much, if at all. The chest side is important because the blademasters always attack what's closest to the chest, meaning they'll lunge right for the DPS group. Thus the 10K GS is critical, because it means you should have enough power to withstand their attacks as the DC drops shield.
6. DPS team, well, easy, you just beat the **** out of her. You'll know within a minute if you're going to beat this boss (an occasional wipe may be necessary if she ports too much). If you're not out DPSing her heals, forget it.
7. DC, do the usual. If your DC can't survive pretty well and isn't dropping shield fast enough, drop them. The higher the DC's GS, the better. Might even be safe to say they should be at least 11K to ensure victory on this one.
8. CW needs to have great control. Drawing adds into the boss will help keep her in place, as well as giving the GWF more damage (I stack damage significantly with more than two targets). When the masters are in red circles and about to explode, CW needs to pop them out. They can also attack when there is add downtime.
So that's it, follow these steps, and it's easy! Thanks again guys for all the pointers, I was just being too nice with who I allowed in there, GS is critical for this one.
Post edited by chudovishye on
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Comments
Right now it would seem we have the ridiculous situation of have the odd situation of needing to buy Tier 2 gear to have any chance of finishing a Tier 2 dungeon...
Cryptic should either re-balance the dungeon (the sensible, not to mention sane option) or raise the minimum GS for entry to stop people who have otherwise no chance of finishing the final boss wasting time getting there only to wipe time and time again.
How about DC + 2xTR + 2xCW instead of carrying some GWF ?
People can farm other dungeons , it's not only the ToS you know . Also you can get 10k+ with T1 gear and rank 5 enchants .
Problem is lots of people don't know how to play their class or enchant their gear .
Roles of a GF in this fight:
-tank the boss
-mark the **** out of all enemies with threatening rush/enforced threat (u want all blademasters and big spider ads on you while you clob the boss like a maniac, to ensure safety for you DC and CW)
-powers: lunging strike, enforced threat, knights challenge (switch with anvil of doom when shes under 25%)
dailys: fighters recovery (this is your lifesaver when your DC fks up)
villains menace (spam this daily. you want to be immune to cc as much as possible due to blademasters stunning you and the red circles with spidernets on the ground, which slow you+and make it a pain to react quickly to incoming ad waves/boss attacks)
enjoy, this boss is challenging and one of the most enjoyable boss fights IMO in this game.
P.S.: a good TR with greater/perfect Vorpal with perfect bleed rotations will make your group own this boss its not even funny.
2. Lol, this dungeon is piece of cake, its easily doable with 9k GS party, however as ive said in previous thread GWF will drag it down, increasing GS requirement from others. Its kinda sad seeing you say: while they need to be to bring GWF into party.
3. Nothing to say here
4. Common idea is to stand in astral shield placed at boss, this protects whole party from random charges of blademasters, allows DC to heal easier and adds damage to boss due to aoe. Biggest problem when dealing with blademasters is their charge as it stuns you and deal heavy dmg, thus id advise not using knock-backs(they dont use it from point blank).
5. Teleports are completely random and preventing her from it is a myth, but yea you should encircle her for CA anyway. Regarding blademasters newly spawned ones will charge closest target(before any threat is caused) this is the main reason ppl take GF for this fight he can actually grab them before they charge any1.
6. You pretty much nailed it.
7. Again GS wont solve anything, DC should save up his powers when adds are controled by CW and use them in during window when they can do damage to your party.
8. Thats what is wrong with most GWFs, you go to dps adds when its not necessary only to top damage meters. Adds dont have to die boss will heal despite them standing in webs or whatever YOU CANT PREVENT IT. Focusing dps on adds(who will respawn anyway) will only gimp dps done to boss. I cant stress it enough DAMAGE METERS DOESNT MEAN A ****, if you cant get past your own ego youre hopeless.
Some tips from a clerics perspective:
Yea, it's not a zone for scrubs for sure. One scrub maybe, the rest should have pretty high GS. GF's really aren't that useful in this because they don't usually have a really high damage output. If you can really turn up the heat on the spider then she will kill all her minions for heals so you don't have to.
Cleric and cw should stay between the entry door and the queen so assasins won't run into them first, except the 1 that spawns at the door.
Group members should all be in shield which is on queen, except CW and Cleric, CW should be next to cleric to get spot heals easy from cleric using word (hopefully your cleric has that up).
Cleric should chain healing word with the heal power if they have it specced, or if not keep shield daily up for when someone gets in a bad way from assasins. If you can chain shield then that's good too!
Keep seal on queen, and it helps to keep everyone at max health. You don't want people running around at 80 percent life on this fight. All it takes is 3 assasins charging to kill just about anyone from 75 percent life or so.
Chud's right on this one. I play a CW as my main and you don't need control, you need insane DPS on the boss. Why? If the DPS is crazy enough, she eats the adds, and there's nothing to control. A good GWF can take a punch much better than a TR and still keep up on the damage.
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The most easy mode comp i've found is: 1 of everything.
All dungeons can be beaten using three out of five classes: CW, DC, TR. Deal with it.
It is not only possible, but also the fastest way.
Spider is not an exception here.
Just deal a lot of dmg as fast as possible and the boss will stop teleporting and start eating adds. When is happens the fight becomes even easier than karrundax. CW should just use steal time and ice storm when the astral shield is not up.
Obviously anyone should avoid purple webbing - the part which PUGs struggle with for some unknown reason.
For a CW there is also a way to bug out the blademasters so they won't move and can't be used for heal, but I haven't found a reliable way to do it. It definetely involves repelling them as far as possible, but it doesn't always work. Anyway, it is unnecessary when you have 3 TRs.
^That's pretty much the Spider Temple final boss fight tactic.
i prefer always GF and try to avoid any GWF's, because GF can hold aggro much better and has also cc knock back.
i'm a TR and i have no problem if a good GWF (which are very rare) is on my side to get fast to the endboss, but unfortunately this class is useless in bossfights.. no offense though.
bunch of HAMSTER... by those precisely idiots who do not take to the team GF's and GWF's this game is going down. GF is required as well as the rest of the classes. I did every dungeon with one of each class party, ofc everyone of us was experienced and it was a ****ing pleasure to run through dungeon without any death, any wipe. So as u want, play without gf, make it harder, keep ruining the game.
Personally, Epic Frozen Heart and Epic Spell Plague are a piece of cake with a GF. They mark all the mobs, drawing them, leaving TR to focus on the boss.
We did Spider fine with a GF yesterday. You just need crazy DPS on the boss.
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The fight is a breeze once you get the mechanics down and people actually work together instead of worrying about their own DEEPS.
Timing is everything. If there is an add she is about to eat anywhere near your party then knock it away for the simple reason that if she is successful the add explodes for a lot of AOE damage. You master that aspect of the fight then you will succeed.
Running most of the dungeons with a GF makes it safer (less likely to wipe) but a group that can go without wiping can run it much faster without one. This is certainly true in ToS and about the only boss fight I can think of that a GF might make faster is the last boss on FH if he can hold aggro and kite well. This is in large part because of boss fight design where the bulk of the danger is from the adds rather than the boss himself.
He did say to use 2x GWF which is close to having a GF in the party so while I agree that a GF is in fact vital to ANY dungeon, running with 2x GWF isn't exactly making it harder or ruining the game for him and his party.
I've done this boss fight in under 3 minutes.
Optimal setup is:
1DC
1GF
3DPS - Can be TR or CW. GWFs are very poor single target dps.
Strategy is pretty simple:
Guardian fighter uses his aoe taunt (enforced threat) when blademasters appear.
Use iron warrior and block to survive there attacks. Also slot enhanced mark and shield talent.
Third encounter can be anything, though frontline surge is best.
This method can be done with bare minimum gearscores on all classes cept the GF. (though it is ultra difficult with low GS, rogues would need to time there attacks and dodges perfectly).
Though GF gear is very easy to set up. I've reached 12k the same day I hit 60 just by spending all of 20k diamonds. 13-15k in a couple days. Though all that really matters in this case is defense, Around 3500 is enough, tho 4500 is ideal. (and GF can reach like 8k defense, so its not exactly hard to hit these figures)
Only other note is that GF and CW can break the healing links too during the healing phase, to prevent some regen (around 86k per mob knocked prone) .. Just have to knock the mobs prone when the blue links appear.
GF can use frontline surge (aoe kb)
CW should use icestorm (only place in the game its useful)
Reason for icestorm and not shield or repel is icestorm sends them prone, other kbs do not - which is necessary to disable the link.
GWFs have no decent knockbacks, poor single target dps, and bad threat generation which makes them poor tanks for the adds too. Least optimal class for this boss fight. (though they are ok clearing adds - CWs are better)
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
I'm not sure where you got the idea that you must knock them prone, but that's inaccurate. Repel and the Shield pop do the job just fine, or at least did as of yesterday. Also, I'd call that group make up optimal only with low average gear scored groups and pugs. ToS can be run 4 times during a single DD with 2 TRs, 1 DC, and 2 CWs with sufficient gear and player skill/coordination.
No, not really, he can take care of blademasters while attacking the boss, since they will hug the team anyway. When blademasters have low HPs, the queen heals herself for less. But you want an AOE gwf, and most of them can't handle that. A good one will help you though, like a good GF can help you taking some aggro off the CW/healer.
The main mistake people do is: no duellist flurry with combat advantage for the rogue. Too much heals for the healer (only the first minute requires serious healing), not a good mix of spells for the CW (the single target beam + some aoes, and ice storm over singularity to push mobs away from their red healing circles), not enough debuffs/buffs in the team, and a tank willing to take all aggro, distracting the healer from his optimal rotation. Aggro has to be shared since most of the heals are aoe.
The divine divine glow will help the team a lot, as long as the DC is competent enough to make the team survive with less heals. As long as people don't stand in the aoe, it should be fine anyway.
The "secret" to deal with this boss with one of each class without 40 rogues in the team is: adds management. Control isn't enough, you want to keep the number of adds (including spitting spiders) low. The less adds you have, and the less hp they have, and the quicker it is. An aoe dps is really a good option here. The CW shouldn't try to control mobs as well, they aren't a real threat, he should only be trying to make them half dead, with the GWF on his side.
My spell bar when i do it with my DC: Sun burst, divine glow, astral shield, hammer of fate, divine armor. At will: brand of the sun, astral seal. The priority is AS in divine mode, obviously, and then sun burst in divinity mode if you have linked spirit, or divine glow if you don't. Catch the rogue and the gwf in the aoe. The boss won't take less debuffing if the center of divine glow isn't on it.
When i do it with my CW: conduit of ice (mastery), shield, ray of enfeeblement, steal time, ice storm (and singularity but i don't use it there). Single target and conduit of ice goes on the boss, the rest is to take HPs from adds.
I agree that a GF can be used for this, but I've had problems with the ones I've tried it with, other than one. They're absolutely required for FH because of how it works, as mentioned, but in Spider it makes it harder, in my opinion, but for a guild member I know, who can play well, and who has good gear, I don't mind it at all. Just like certain people want a faster run with two TRs or something and an extra CW.
As for your comment, I'm so sick of people saying GWF needs carried. Look, there are horrible GWF players out there, just like there are horrible TRs (though less so maybe), CWs, whatever. I was in a dungeon two days ago where the TR swore up and down he could "do his job" on the FH boss, but he wiped in barely a minute, and I soloed the rest of it from there on out, leaving him to sulk over the chest after we finished it. So I carried the TR that time.
It all comes down to the player, their gear, and their knowledge of the game, that's it. I'll admit, in some ways the GWF is a very difficult class. It's basically impossible, for example, for us to go one-on-one with a TR in perma stealth, you're better off running and fighting the rest of the enemy party to win instead of wasting your time. But that's another issue. For dungeons, though, I've been absolutely required for my party when I play, and they like playing with me. My Greater Plague Fire tears away defense, which makes everyone else do more damage to the boss, as well as doubling my damage output overall since I finally found my last piece of the Avatar set in a drop, got them all through hard work and grinding.
I've had to solo the boss on Spell 3 times and 4 times on FH because someone went down, and I did just fine at it. It took slightly longer because of the crit that the TR brings, but I still did it, so without me in those cases the match would have been over, and in one of those runs the TR DCed, so I HAD to do it, otherwise we were done. So, in a way, I was carrying those times. And last night, in Spider again, if it wasn't for me it would have been over. Very easy to explain how I know that. We had two TRs with great DPS. My Tab bugged during the first time we tried it, which as any GWF knows is absolute death in pretty much every setting. Letting the Determination bar go down didn't help, neither did dying when we tried a wipe. Tried it two times after that seeing if we could still make it, just wouldn't happen. The only option was for me to relog, lose my chest, and then have Unstop activated again for the boss. Then we beat it, so don't tell me the GWF isn't integral, because without me there, the match was over. Every class can be bad, it depends only on the player behind it, even with gear. So stop with this carried bull****, because that's what it is in many cases.
Even a CW isn't required for spider.
Just get a TR or two that has high DPS & the boss will kill all the adds for you.
Then simply repel the mobs away before they explode. (Cleric can do this if the CW dies for whatever reason.)
Though I'd say maybe it's possible, in practice I've never seen a party of more than one 8300K GS member make it through this dungeon. Maybe it's just the groups I was in. I think the GS should be adjusted to at least 10K for all the epics, just to be a little more realistic for people. Hell, Mad Dragon is still an absolute **** of a boss even for a T1.
It's not, i've reviewed videos of myself using shield and she still gets the full heal amount.
repel may work if they go out of a certain (very long) range, due to its massive range push, but requires extreme timing and youll generally only get 1 enemy due to its targeting. Not effective at all in this fight. They tend to spread well for ice storm.
And for the record i've done about 15min runs with no CW in the group. Strong coordinated players can make a lot happen, even on less efficient classes. I can agree a CW makes the initial clear faster, and having one for debuffs speeds up the boss, but in terms of the priority for a successful completion, they are lower the GF.
Actually did a 100% pug spider yesterday with no CW. Was Just me, 1 DC I just met, and 3 random rogues, one of which was pretty low geared. All 3 of which told me on many occasions we couldn't win without a CW. When we did, they made excuses rather then thanking me for showing them another way, great community.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Gonna be polite here and call you mistaken rather than intentionally lying, but you're absolutely wrong either way. If you knock the mob out of the circle she does NOT get the full heal.
I can't say I believe this either.
Knock them out of what circle? Her heal mechanic is that she drains all current mobs(apart from recently spawned waves) and stops draining them once they hit 20% because then they explode. There's literally nothing more to it, ancient chinese myths.
If you're referring to the red circles around the mobs that's just the explosion indicator, you can knock them so that they explode away from people but at that point she's already stopped draining them.
No, if you knock them while the blue lines are up it breaks the heal and they die instantly.