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Control Wizards CC Duration needs fixing
yaubot
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 24 Arc User
I would someone to explain something for me here. How is it that TR, GF, and GWF have stun/prone attacks that last literally for 5 seconds yet my control wizard that has 20 WIS (10% control bonus and resist) can't entangle another class for 1 second even with the class feature: Orb of Imposition equipped? It seems to me, that in PVE, that skill last forever but in pvp domination it's like throwing a rock at someone... same holds true for chill strike and even ray of frost. I can understand that they have anti stuns that can break them out of stuns or even nullify them but they aren't using them nor dodging them these skills simply have next to no duration in pvp.
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Welcome to amazing CW PvP experience!
Now that you have figured it out the next thing to figure out is why so many are calling CW OP, I still haven't.
At around 9k GS is a threshold where CW turns from amazing damagedealer to amazing wimp hiding in backlines waiting to get backstabbed to death. Might aswell be as much nuisance as possible before that happens and happen it will, leave real CC to GF and rogues.
Ok which spells knoch you prone:
Ice Knife
Shard which very few use in PvP
And?...
Shard of ava on tab which gives u first 1 prone on droppin it on their head "easy to do if combined with EF" and then prone again when shooting it at them (sometimes even work 3 times) does about 8k damage and gives 2 prones, combine it if u use ice knife first and thats 3
EDIT: when shootin it at them can prone up to 3 players, not just 1
EDIT2: shard is IMO a PVP only spell, which has massive use
You really don't need prone. You have more than enough utility as a CW. RoE, RoF, FR, Repel, Chill Strike, Shield, and Ice Knife are all you'll ever need in PvP. Except RoE, every single one of those spells offer great CC.
I think you should take some time to learn what you have available instead of complaining about what others have and you don't.
all the spells u mentioned .. what happens if they use ITC or unstoppable? ur dead. you need prone spells, not regular CCs
RoF is HAMSTER takes several seconds to get a 0.5 second freeze and is easily avoidable. Low damage
Chill Strike stun is about 0.5 seconds long basically good to interupt but hardly worthy being labled CC.
Shield needs the target to be next to you.
Ice Knife is a daily and far from always available.
Repel is the only good CC power you mentioned.
RoF deals good damage and tends to proc Nightmare Wizardry and Storm Spell much faster than MM. It's also good for locking down someone trying to get away, allowing your team to close the distance and secure the kill. Same for Chill Strike, except it hits much harder. Freeze lasts longer if you stop doing damage and just leave them CC'd for someone else to come up. How about building those stacks of AM before dropping EF?
You're also forgetting the synergy that RoF has with Bitter Cold. Pretty much gives your permanent 5% damage. Also generates a large amount of AP.
Even in PvP, your Daily is almost always available. If its not, you might want to adjust your gameplay.
There's so much *****ing on these forums. CW's have too much CC. Then here comes a CW, "We don't have enough prone and our CC's suck".
The fact is, CW has more than enough CC. Learn to cycle CC's with your team.
You will not lock down anyone with RoF the initial slow is too weak and it only takes like 2-3 seconds until it falls off. RoF deals significantly less damage than MM and Storm Spell and NW procc just fine with encounters and MM.
AP gain is the only saving grace but it's not that much more than MM. I also do not have Bitter Cold feat so this is a moot point.
What do you mean "Daily is always available"? That is pretty much nonsense you might get 3-5 Dailies in a game at best.
Cycling CCs in a pug is pretty much impossible so a moot point as well.
Are you 60 yet? For something that's impossible, it sure seems to happens a lot on my GWF and CW.
RoF procs NW and Storm Spell better than MM. On 5/6 stacks of chill, the slow is more than good enough. If you're only getting 3-5 dailies, you might want to check your set up.
You're crazy if you think you're not gonna lock anyone down with RoF.
At this point, it's either you or your build. Nobody in CW forums has complaints like this.
The points are:
All other classes have some way to negate either damage or CC effects, heal or block skills used on them.
You have prone skills / stun skills that have the same duration in and out of pve yet control wizards have theirs nerfed.
You might make the argument that being a ranged class the duration should be as it currently is however being that all other classes can either block heal null or stealth past such effects... I think the control wizards are getting the short end of the stick here. CW damage is moderate even if you equip all the CC skills you can you can't really damage a target like a GWF or a TR. With that a point alone CW should either have their base damage increase or CC durations match the pve equivalent.
Don't even go into the 3 charges of dodge since GWF have the ability to make other classes rubber band mid dodge.
The only thing changed is the duration of EF. EF duration is reduced because they knew it would be just way too OP outside of PvE. For the Freeze time, I don't really see much of a difference in/out PvP. Prone skills are static.
Now lets look at Prone skills.
GF have 2, both powers. GWF's have 3, but we only use 2. We use Crescendo and Takedown. 1 Daily, one Power. CW's have 2 as well. Ice Knife and Shard of the Endless Avalanche. 1 Daily, 1 Power, and SotEA knocks down TWICE.
So 3 out of the 5 classes have Prone abilities, and they're pretty much balanced between each other in terms of slotting.
CW's put out some nasty damage inside PvP. RoE, EF, Chill Strike, RoE, Ice Knife, and follow up with whatever you want. Their base damage is fine. I think you need to read up on some of the posts in The Library, which the CW sub forum. Thaum/Renegade feats have great synergy with CW Powers.
I use a Renegade build and I stand by me opinion, RoF is overall at best very situational useful for me. Too slow to stack chill, not lasting long enough, not building up Arcane Mastery and unless you have some feats and passives for it the damage is quite low.
The cons of this spell is longer than the meager benefits.
Oh and last time I check GWF can ignore the slow most of the time via Charge.
So who is not 60 here yet? Seems like to be you.
No just no.
Slow Time stuns at least twice as long in PvE compared to PvP. I must know I use ST all the time in PvE and PvP. All feezes at least in solo runs last about 1-2 seconds, they barely hold 0.5 seconds sometimes they break nigh immediatly barely interupting the enemy.
Shard is very rarely used, because it is quite buggy. AP gain is low and inconsistent, it has a long CD and can only knock prone twice if tabbed, which even fewer CWs chose to do.
The damage of a CW is mediocre outside of a Ice Knife combo, I eat more damage from GFs, GWFs and TFs if they are decently geared and they do not even need dailies for that especially TRs and they have higher overall survivabilty.
Only DC seems to have a lower damage output even as Rightous albeit I barely see any so cannot really say much about them.
And they have counters/measures to endure the duration of ITC and unstoppable.
TR can ITC as well and pop shadow strike>stealth to disengage.
GWF can also pop unstoppable to a tanking fight.
GFs can block the full duration of either skills no problem.
CWs are pretty much screwed when engaged by any of the 3 classes listed above. We don't have anything to escape with (no mighty leap type skill or stealth), we don't have anything that can let us break CC/get immunity, and we sure as hell don't have the ability to self-heal or to pop astral shield to save our asses. Our only prone encounter (shard) NEEDS to be tabbed to even be useful, and even then is very easy to dodge. As mentioned, our effective CC ability in PVP is nearly non-existent unless against DCs or fellow CWs.
Don't even let me get started on our damage. We have 4 encounter slots, yet our total spike damage is way lower than a GWF/GF/TR without Ice Knife. My GWF and TR both are equally geared compared to my CW (first character) and yet even with BOTH COI (assailing force) and ROE (with elemental empowerment, 10% armor pen) I see my 3.5k damage tabbed chill strike deal a whooping...2-5k crit damage on CW/DC/TR. When I'm lucky enough and have other debuffs on the target by an ally, I could hit for MAYBE 7-8k.
My TR? Simply stealth>lashing gets me 8-14k crit. Up to 8k crit with impact shot (which is RANGED, interrupts the target AND has 3 charges). With Lurkers one-shotting CW/TR/DC with a 25k lashing, with ease. Able to solo back cap without issues, can run away and annoy enemies with stealth-refreshing encounters. Able to use ITC to break free and screw over the enemy (CWs especially).
My GWF? Play smart, soak some damage to pop unstoppable, prone with takedown (easily 4-5k crit), followed by IBS (8-12k crit) and restoring (4-6k crit) to kill most squishies. Capable to soaking tons of damage. Able to boost up to 41% deflect if I mainting my feature buff AND have 43%+ crit as well. Also able to solo back cap against up to 2 equally geared enemies and still be able to survive and kill both.
As it stands, CWs are the easiest class to take down in PVP. GWF/GF/TR gets so happy when they see CWs, and we all know why.
Nowadays the only time my CW can shine is when my party is filled with at least 2-3 GWF/GF who are constantly annoying the enemy team with prone while I tickle enemies from afar (and risk being an easy kill for any smart TR). Everytime I do my daily PVP, I always start with the CW one. Because it is almost always so fustrating to play, so that I can get that out of the way and actually enjoy PVP on my GWF and TR.
entagle force control time 0.5 sec
chill froze effect 0.5 sec
ice rays frozen effect 2 sec
totaly; 3 sec
Yes, im CONTROL wizard.
GF stun combo 4-5 sec
GWF stun+immune lock 4sec
Rogue daze 3 sec
Shard needs some serious love, so much potential wasted due to bugs and clunky execution.
You can have your opinion, even if you are very, very wrong. It is useful against many classes in many situations and is often better in a PVP context than magic missile thanks to being able to freeze someone solid every few seconds.
Do you really PvP? Do you realize just how painfully slow it is and how many counters are out there which you have to crcumvent to get a meager 0.5 second stun at best off, often lasts even less because extra damage on the frozen target leads to faster breaking of CC?
You realize that MM outdamages RoF quite significantly if you are not specced for frost damage via feats and passives?
The fact that it applies Chill through GF Block is reason enough to use it.
Perhaps Shard and Icy rays could have their cooldowns reduced a bit as well. They are around 12.5 seconds iirc and given that they are 50 and 45 level powers, they seem a little lacklustre. Shard is clunky and icy rays isn't so much better than chilled strike.
Also maelstrom of chaos seems like a complete turkey, has anyone used it successfully?
(Emphasis mine.)
Do we have data to support that claim, or is it just anecdotal? I've heard the claim before, but I haven't seen any evidence. Given that Ray of Frost (seems to) tick slower than MM (3/4 RoF attacks versus 5 for MM in the same time period), the idea seems a little counter-intuitive.
Also, does Ray of Frost proc Elemental Empowerment? Per the description, it shouldn't, but neither should Chilling Cloud (and CC apparently does proc). If so, that'd be a pretty big deal.
That's true. The thing is that MM comes packaged with the Arcane Mastery mechanic. I'm given to understand, per copticone's testing, that Chilling Cloud can become competitive with Magic Missile if you take all of the relevant feats, but that's a fairly large "if." Ray of Frost? No idea how the comparison shakes out even with the feats.
It does not slow him nor does it freeze him at 6 stacks and he is slow enough when blocking anyway. If he is in range for his prone combo you will have to kite too long for the stacks to be meaningful. So if at all you want to increase your frost damage which is again circumstantial and depending on specc. For a Renegade RoF is still better than Chilling Cloud and Storm Pillar most of the time so as a "backup" CC it is somewhat useful if everything else is on CD or after Repel albeit smart enemeis just outrange you then and come back later.
GF is really the last class I use RoF against I'd much rather try to lure him into droping his guard and counter with EF and do some damage.
Best classes to use RoF against is ironically CW and DC. The other classes have too many counters against it.
No. Just No. RoF a Blocking GF and at 6 stacks he will freeze, allowing you to Entangle, Repel or whatever you want to him. It's the most reliable way to break block in the game. Please don't post information without knowing what you are talking about.
There is no window if u use it instant, only halflings have that window, and if thats the case, try ice knife instead or aim the stone better =D
You gotta dig deep to call someone brain dead when you didn't even know RoF would freeze through block. If you can't see the advantage of being able to break block from max range in pvp then I can't help you. Stay Classy Kroniker.