Fewer DC now levelling than before?

mconosrep · July 2013

I have been leveling another GF alt, and I have noticed a disturbing trend recently. For my previous GF it was instant groups for Dungeons or Skirmishes, but now it seems that there is a quite a long wait for a DC. One time I had to wait 30 minutes, and got in a group without a DC even during Skirmish Hour. (I like to think we managed that high-level skirmish due to my superb skills, but the two CWs chain-CCing everything might have helped a little

)

Conversely, queue times are still instant for my DC. Anyone else had the same experience? And, if so, I can't imagine how bad the wait times are for DPS nowadays....

jaymadiv · July 2013

in before lack of Battle Cleric and Astral Shield complaining.

baronvonboom · July 2013

I started one the other day so im kind of blessed to not know what im missing from before:)

jaymadiv · July 2013

baronvonboom wrote: »

I started one the other day so im kind of blessed to not know what im missing from before:)

i got one in the 30s that I'll probably finish leveling up...as soon as my Guild gets another fulltime tank.

kattefjaes · July 2013

I'm not seeing it, really. I am levelling a GWF right now, and the queues seem no worse than when I was levelling my DC, in "beta" (arf)- when the server was far busier than now. Back then, the level-appropriate dungeons took a while to pop and sometimes I would outlevel them before they were ready, even.

I'm doing the same now, which is to queue up, and then hit the next zone and start questing. If anything, I am outlevelling them less now, despite questing far far faster (partly due to more experience, and partly due to GWF being pure faceroll). Thus, for me, it might even be better.

mconosrep · July 2013

kattefjaes wrote: »

I'm not seeing it, really. I am levelling a GWF right now, and the queues seem no worse than when I was levelling my DC, in "beta" (arf)- when the server was far busier than now. Back then, the level-appropriate dungeons took a while to pop and sometimes I would outlevel them before they were ready, even.

Thing is I doubt that DPS would notice the difference easily - the constraining factor is a lack of either a DC or GFs. But for a GF it used to be instant queues meaning that DC probably outnumbered GFs while now the long queues indicate that the balance has changed. Whether this means fewer DCs or more GFs I don't know. But it is completely obvious when previously it was a minute, if that, and now I sometimes end up in skirmishes after a long wait without a DC...

kevinf08 · July 2013

I think the majority are leveling GF's to punt people around in pvp.

kimberix · July 2013

I shelved my 60 DC a month or so ago. It was a combination of the following;

1) PUGs not listening / understanding the dungeons
2) Aggro was broken back then
3) Class wasn't what I had envisaged and there was no real move by Cryptic to change it
4) Biggest issue was the cries of 'heal moar!' from people who never responded to instructions, but were quite willing to blame the cleric for not healing them when they were stood in red circles, aggroed too many mobs etc.

AS nerf didn't bother me as I'd already quit - but the -40% self-healing and AS nerf would have probably put me over the edge anyway/

Therefore, to summarise, the cleric isn't the most fun character class in this game and coupled with a selfish player-base that expects you to sacrifice your own playing enjoyment so they can enjoy theirs doesn't help...

mconosrep · July 2013

kevinf08 wrote: »

I think the majority are leveling GF's to punt people around in pvp.

Not saying that this isn't a factor but if they were mainly playing PvP though it shouldn't make such a difference in PvE Skirmishes and Dungeons.

rapticor · July 2013

Other than PvP daily I don't really play my DC anymore. For most of the reasons cited here already. Even in PvP I get people complaining about not getting heals even though I am tossing AS down and divine Forgemasters. I wonder how these people function on teams the times they get no DC.

Anyway I didn't really see much of a difference from two months ago when I leveled my first character and the present where I am leveling another. No issues until I hit the Helms Hold skirmish and beyond. After that the queue times can be fairly long which makes the daily skirmishes where you have to complete them 2-3 times nearly impossible. I've been queuing up for the Wolf dungeon as well but so far no luck so I will more than likely outlevel that.

kattefjaes · July 2013

kimberix wrote: »

I shelved my 60 DC a month or so ago. It was a combination of the following;

1) PUGs not listening / understanding the dungeons
2) Aggro was broken back then
3) Class wasn't what I had envisaged and there was no real move by Cryptic to change it
4) Biggest issue was the cries of 'heal moar!' from people who never responded to instructions, but were quite willing to blame the cleric for not healing them when they were stood in red circles, aggroed too many mobs etc.

AS nerf didn't bother me as I'd already quit - but the -40% self-healing and AS nerf would have probably put me over the edge anyway/

Therefore, to summarise, the cleric isn't the most fun character class in this game and coupled with a selfish player-base that expects you to sacrifice your own playing enjoyment so they can enjoy theirs doesn't help...

Give it another go; I "unshelved" (ick) mine recently, and it's a lot more fun than it was. The fact that aggro mostly works now makes it like night and day. It takes a couple of pulls getting used to the fact that AS is down for about five seconds, but that's relatively easy to cope with (keep Hallowed Ground ready, if nervous)- you just need to be a tad more proactive on the Sunburst/seals.

You might hate it still, but you won't know until you try. Pick something solid but easy like Karrundax. You'll be amazed at the difference.

mconosrep wrote: »

Thing is I doubt that DPS would notice the difference easily - the constraining factor is a lack of either a DC or GFs. But for a GF it used to be instant queues meaning that DC probably outnumbered GFs while now the long queues indicate that the balance has changed. Whether this means fewer DCs or more GFs I don't know. But it is completely obvious when previously it was a minute, if that, and now I sometimes end up in skirmishes after a long wait without a DC...

I had to read this a couple of times before I got over the "seriously, are you even paying attention?" grumps. However, now I have done so, I see what you're saying, and it's quite possible that you're right. Hrm...

klixan · July 2013

I've noticed much fewer clerics playing these days, but many more GF's and GWF's than there used to be. There's a good reason for this though, I think the cleric is the hardest class to play. No other class has given me as much grief as my cleric when trying to level.

Their defense is poor, their damage is worse and to top it all off, they can't heal themselves (not enough to make a difference anyway). It takes a very dedicated player to play a cleric, I just don't think there are that many people who can be bothered with it.

silence1k1ll · July 2013

There is little to no incentive to play a DC, so, yeah this seems about situation normal.

xelliz · July 2013

I don't know about leveling, but I still play my L 60 Cleric. I can definitely believe there is a lack of new Clerics, I even told my friend who wanted a second char that I didn't they would enjoy cleric...even though you was a healer in WoW, so she rolled a GWF.

Like klixan said, its takes a more dedicated player. You can pretty much roll a TR, CW or GWF and glide through the content to 60. Heals and Tanks require a little more patience and effort. That being said, I PVPed most of my levels with my Cleric, so I've spent a lot of time at in quest zones being much higher then the content.

baalhashmal · July 2013

klixan wrote: »

I've noticed much fewer clerics playing these days, but many more GF's and GWF's than there used to be. There's a good reason for this though, I think the cleric is the hardest class to play. No other class has given me as much grief as my cleric when trying to level.

Their defense is poor, their damage is worse and to top it all off, they can't heal themselves (not enough to make a difference anyway). It takes a very dedicated player to play a cleric, I just don't think there are that many people who can be bothered with it.

...and that difficulty of being a cleric and lack of clerics is why I still keep playing as a cleric.

I appreciate the, "Nice heals," after dungeon completions and get satisfaction of "saving" the team from near-death with a well-placed Bastion of Health or Divine Armor, or Astral Shield + Sunburst combination.

Still the frustrations mount when players continue to ignore huge red circles. This is going to sound mean, but after a few warnings/suggestions, I just stop healing them so they learn their lesson. Sure, they'll be mad, but you can guess what my retort is. :cool:

lltsnwn · July 2013

DC doesn't get PvP score for healing and can't do competitive damage thus gets few kills so PvP is a thankless scoreless job for clerics.

In PvE we are 100% dependent on the skill of the other 4 people in the group thus if you have inexperienced players with you no matter how experienced/skilled you are as a cleric entire your team will fail if they are poor players. It is near impossible to carry anyone in Neverwinter if they are not doing what they are supposed to be doing like in other MMORPGs such as WoW, etc. No amount of gearing, skill, etc will be able to save people who are standing in red circles, etc.

Solo DC is PAINFULLY slow as our DPS is pathetic so doing foundries solo is not fun at all. I ran solo content as a GF easy where my DC struggles even though my cleric is WAY more geared then my GF. Doing solo content as a cleric is extremely frustrating...

So there you have it... Not a big mystery why a lot of clerics are burnt out on the class.

diogene0 · July 2013

My DC can keep most of the party members alive if i want to. I can also leave people standing in red die when they don't listen. I'm a good healer, but i mainly play a support class, which means i have no fun if people skip and cheat in dungeons. When there are no monsters to fight, it means i'm just looking at HP bars, that's not my idea of fun. I love playing my cleric, being a heal bot, not so much. That's why i avoid public queues. Cheating isn't fun when you play a CW or a DC and that's what people keep doing. So why would i help then if i have no fun?

It's an ungrateful class, if the team wipes you get blamed, no matter what you did and how much your team member sucks. If you add the boredom of cheating there are 0 reasons to play anything but Rogue Online.

rapticor · July 2013

I basically leveled up solo with my DC by doing the quest chains. I didn't really find it 'painfully slow'. This was also before the AS nerf though and I was just barely able to keep the rank 15 tank companion up. That change definitely hoses people in the 50-60 range trying to solo those quests.

I don't bother doing Foundry quests with my DC though as that's a waste of time.

velsparwisen1 · July 2013

I guess they rerolled Rogue for the perma stealth griefing.

elendon · July 2013

Leveling and playing a Cleric was much more fun at early levels than what it became in the late levels.

Clerics at low level have good damage, good heal, can substain themself, good armor, overall a very decent class.

Once in the high levels, you have low damage, can't heal yourself, armor doesn't do anything and whenever something is useful, they nerf it or simply put it on a half an hour invisible cooldown to make sure you don't spec it.

We scale like HAMSTER, armor scale like HAMSTER. Add that to the rage of having to manage your team because people stand in the red and they don't keep the add's off you and you've got yourself a winner class.

Might as well go play a GF and press 3 buttons to kill a Cleric.

skalt112 · July 2013

My DC is now a mule. With purple gear.

kurahavi · July 2013

I think not that many people like to be a dog in a leash, which is why there are less DCs. Changing role in a party from leader to dog chased me out of the game at least.

tyrtallow · July 2013

Once in the high levels, you have low damage, can't heal yourself, armor doesn't do anything and whenever something is useful, they nerf it or simply put it on a half an hour invisible cooldown to make sure you don't spec it.

We scale like HAMSTER, armor scale like HAMSTER. Add that to the rage of having to manage your team because people stand in the red and they don't keep the add's off you and you've got yourself a winner class.

You do know that we're capable of incredible burst damage if properly specced? Do yourself a favor and take/slot Terrifying Insight. Combined with AoE nukes like Sunburst/Divine Glow/etc you are suddenly a powerful nuker at high levels. Problem, of course, is that you should be focusing on keeping your healing output decent and maximizing your damage mitigation power uptime in dungeons, and doing that is impossible if you only slot nukes. Still, the fact remains that Clerics are not a low DPS class. We simply have to be that way in dungeons (another reason why other people should learn respect you, unless you're something of a *** yourself of course). But note that in higher level play (ie, everyone in the party is well geared and pretty competent at what they do) you can afford to be slot a nuke, maybe even two up until the main dungeon boss.

The main problem, atm, is that our T2 PvP gear needs work and we need more support in end-game PvP if things are to remain as they are. It would be nice if Prophetic Action, on top of blocking one attack, significantly increased your DR for a few seconds, for example. Obviously these changes will come, it's more question of when. I'm pretty sure that at least some of the things going on PvP atm wasn't intended by the developers. The enchants themselves are still pretty screwy. Some have bonuses that are close to worthless and some are just godly compared to others, regardless of class.

And no, clerics are not rarer. My low level GF friends still get into dungeons faster than my low level clerics.

lltsnwn · July 2013

tyrtallow wrote: »

And no, clerics are not rarer. My low level GF friends still get into dungeons faster than my low level clerics.

How many cleric characters are you playing?

tyrtallow · July 2013

Five. And I already have extra slots for possibly a Drow or Sun Elf cleric. 1 is lower level and barely used (except last week, for the x2 AD), 2 are in the test shard. 1 is my main, 1 is retired (my first cleric) and the others are for testing stuff.

melias01 · July 2013

Pretty much what some of the others have said. Shelved until further notice. Only dust him off when the guild is begging for a healer. Would never queue in the public queue these days. Difficulty of the t2 is extremely unforgiving for pugs. Got tired of wasting my time with a pug when they can be 1 shotted with the guild. Recent changes in my opinion made it worse for pugs. You get tired of telling people to stop standing in stupid.

fondlez · July 2013

There are definitely less endgame DCs than there used to be in my experience.

But for levelling (levelling a GF alt in the 40s), I have not noticed any real difference.

I have nothing to really compare it to since my first was a DC when it was GFs that were super rare, second was a DPS to whom long queues are fact of life.

tyrtallow · July 2013

We'll just have to see how many lowbies keep playing DCs I guess. By the time they get to 60 chances are they'll never even get to experience the current state of things.

terrycloth · July 2013

I haven't seen instant queue times -- more like 30-45 minute queue times -- but I am still leveling my DC...

I haven't had any problem with solo nuking but in dungeons I'm not sure how to heal people. Or how to tell if I'm doing a good job healing people. Most of the time spamming astral seal, sunburst, and divine FF keeps people topped off but in the hard fights, I do... what exactly? Well, mostly I run away from things trying to kill me or spend my time nuking archers that no one else seems to notice exist. After five failed tries in Gray Wolf Den we succeeded after I switched to a DPS loadout and didn't tell anyone that they weren't getting anything but astral seal for healing because I was busy nuking the **** wolves and archers.

Argh. x.x

vmlinux · July 2013

lltsnwn wrote: »

DC doesn't get PvP score for healing and can't do competitive damage thus gets few kills so PvP is a thankless scoreless job for clerics.

In PvE we are 100% dependent on the skill of the other 4 people in the group thus if you have inexperienced players with you no matter how experienced/skilled you are as a cleric entire your team will fail if they are poor players. It is near impossible to carry anyone in Neverwinter if they are not doing what they are supposed to be doing like in other MMORPGs such as WoW, etc. No amount of gearing, skill, etc will be able to save people who are standing in red circles, etc.

Solo DC is PAINFULLY slow as our DPS is pathetic so doing foundries solo is not fun at all. I ran solo content as a GF easy where my DC struggles even though my cleric is WAY more geared then my GF. Doing solo content as a cleric is extremely frustrating...

So there you have it... Not a big mystery why a lot of clerics are burnt out on the class.

Yep, I give a pug pvp group 1 minute, if they don't have their act together I quit and queue back up. As any other class I'd just play for points, but with a HAMSTER group It doesn't make sense to end up with a mediocre group since I don't get anything for pure heal participation as a cleric. Cryptic knew this, pointed out that they knew they were HAMSTER clerics, and still nerfed assist exp. Like we were really leading the charts before anyways.

Fewer DC now levelling than before?

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