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I just do not get some people when it comes to GWF's
irk2013
Member Posts: 241 Arc User
Some people claim GWF's are not wanted in endgame content, and I just can't fathom WHY you would take a TR over a GWF in all honesty.
GWF's are great sub-tanks while still being able to dish out some really nice damage, their AOE damage is good, and having 2 GWF's in a group with 1 cw 1dc and a GF the runs are smooth and easy most of the time. (barring a player who has no clue what they are doing)
I just don't get this attitude that says TR's are better than GWF's in ANY part of this game for I and my guild just don't see it.
GWF's are great sub-tanks while still being able to dish out some really nice damage, their AOE damage is good, and having 2 GWF's in a group with 1 cw 1dc and a GF the runs are smooth and easy most of the time. (barring a player who has no clue what they are doing)
I just don't get this attitude that says TR's are better than GWF's in ANY part of this game for I and my guild just don't see it.
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I've yet to see anyone with "LF GWF" in any T2 premades. I'm seriously regretting my choice as the class is completely useless in endgame PvE and holds no value or utility other than damage.
As a player who doesn't PvP so much, It is seriously annoying.
I have a GWF and it makes me really sad when I have to try killing a Spawning Pit by myself. A TR walks over and finishes it in less time than it took me to get it to 1/4 of its health.
Yet with GWF's the time it takes to get from start to finish is faster then with a TR least in all runs I have done. Sure TR's might have higher single target damage but when it comes to clearing to boss and adds with boss they fail.
try spec'ing into the sent tree.
you become a godly tank. lots of sustain. and you can pull ads off team.
Zone groups don't clear dungeons, don't be silly. They "carefully maneuver around the mobs".
TRs demolish bosses, GWFs tickle them. CWs are better at trash than GWFs. The end.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
Explain your logic behind this.
GWF's has two marking abilities. One is an AOE at about 3 meters in every direction around him. The other requires you to execute a monster with it. How does this compare to a long ranged taunt and or a massive AOE taunt + threat?
After much hassling the group for about 30 minutes they were still unable to find a 11k rogue for CN they let me into the group. So I geared up in full titan set took off all my damage gear. Eveything I need to garantee a safe smooth run to first cmap. In fact this is overkill for doing that run. But one look at my gear I was insta kicked from group and they went back to looking for a TR. Did not even give me a chance to show them I could run to 2nd camp, and do what a rogue does.
Activate Slam and turn into a Kenyan? Didn't even think about that.
What rank of Dark Enchants do you have in those utility slots? If you have rank 7s, you must be scary fast.
Honestly OP don't even bother trying to argue with them, the bad will continue to blame the class instead of looking at themselves, the anti social will blame the fact that GWFs aren't in the popular group make ups instead of their inability to make friends. Just continue to rock the 2h bliss knowing that you have succeeded where most are failing.
I don't understand what you are getting at. I am saying the mechanics for marking on a GWF are flawed at best. They only last until you are hit and a GWF should be getting hit. They aren't very large radius and generate too little threat and do too little damage. I really wish that the feat: Intimidation added 100% of power as damage and 200% threat when maxed and increased the radius of the abilties by approx 15m and caused the abilties to last for a duration of time if not just change the base marking abilities size and damage alone. Right now GWF marking is not really all that great. I don't ever want to out tank a GF.. But I would like to know that my GWF will always be a solid 2nd place over everyone else in threat one what the GF doesn't pick up.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
Awwh. Well, let me just say, I usually do try and include one, as I like having them around, and a good one really cleans house. After the big balance patch, they really kick *** if properly geared, specced and played.
Of course, there's the rub, most are absolutely dreadful, as a lot of players are attracted to "BIG SWORD SMASH", and think that standing in the red spamming their at-wills and the odd daily is enough. Thus it feels like a bit of a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot, pugging a GWF slot. However the same applies to TRs, rogues in most MMOs are a default lowest common denominator easy mode IWIN lolclass, for a lot of would-be mall ninjas.
Still, when forming a group, I do like to have both, as well played, they are both excellent sources of DPS. Recently, I pugged both GWF and TR slots, and did a wonderful zero deaths clear of pirate and spider back to back, where stuff was dying so fast on trash that I barely got finish rotations on my CW, bagging both delve chests. That's how it should be, as both classes are brilliant when played by skilled and pleasant people. (Both ended up on my friends list, those guys were beasts- I was impressed)
In fact, not only do I try to get a GWF whenever possible, I am levelling one myself now, to see how they are, so maybe I am biased XD
People just don't want to do the work, I guess. The TR, if they're geared right and know how to play, whittle away a boss much faster. The GWF, however, is awesome on adds unlike any other class. Some people just want speed, and we don't have that without the right damage enchants.
Endgame is about avoiding as much trash (and if you can't avoid it, pull them all to a ledge and get a CW to instant kill them by knocking them off) and skip as much as you possibly can by exploiting / skipping bosses just to get the chest.
Unfortunately I cant see this changing because It works. As a 60 GWF It's a slap in the face.
Didn't think I needed to bold the part I was mainly replying to. Oh well.
That being said lets not kid ourselves here... In PVE GWF's are simply inferior (sad to say cause I like my GWF but its true). I don't know whether its just a design flaw or what, but don't pretend like GWF is just as good as any other class in any dungeon. Trash is worthless, it is either skipped or thrown over the edge or chain singularity cc'd 90% of the time. Lets say GWF did 5 times as much aoe damage as CW, (LOL @ that) would you take one then? Unless you can one shot mobs like CW can (bumping) or hold 100% of trash mob threat and take no damage (chain singularity) then no, of course not. So when the group has a CW to bump/cc adds the only damage that matters is single target and the TR will win every time in pure single target damage.
So as much as I enjoy playing my GWF (and I do run T2's and CN with my guild) everyone is always much happier and the group completes the dungeon much faster with a 2nd CW or 2nd TR. Notice I said faster, of course you can complete all content with 1 of each class party composition if you have competent players, but why would a group take extra time in a dungeon when they don't have to? they won't unless its your guild and they have no choice lol.
At least I have some cool people that don't mind running with GWF, sorry to those that don't, its a fun class.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Those marks placed by GWF are for GF, not for yourself.
You get loot when the boss dies, not when you do a bunch of DPS on trash. Rogues are hilariously superior on bosses.
GWFs kill everything but the very smallest trash really slowly, and they are dealing damage to you and everyone else the entire time you are slowly trying to kill them. CWs also kill them really slowly, but they keep them from doing damage while they are doing it for a great portion of the time, and if there is a cliff available, they kill the trash so much faster than a GWF that they win the contest that they already won, again.
I know some of you are desperate to validate your decision to dump all the time, AD, and probably in a lot of cases, RL money, that you have into your GWF, but the simple fact is that the GWF is a sub par class. Everything the class is supposedly designed to do, it does poorly. It's target limit mechanics are bad, it's damage abilities are super weak (and get weaker when you do what you are supposed to be doing), it's threat output is low, it's animations are far too long for the pitiful returns you get, EVEN THE DODGE MECHANIC IS BAD.
Stop trying to say the class is fine just because you get carried through dungeons by people that feel sorry enough for you to bring you because you are their friend. Stop trying to point at the overall damage chart as some measure of your worth, when in reality it takes you forever to kill anything that actually needs to die in a hurry.
The fact is that two CWs are vastly superior to a CW and a GWF in a group. They drastically lower the damage the group takes and kill with the same or MUCH greater speed. Until the GWF brings enough to outweigh a second CW, the class will remain sub par.
I don't know if you've noticed, but most dungeons are 95% trash, 5% bosses, the speed of the run is determined by how fast you can wipe out trash either by raw AoE or shoving them off cliffs.
You're completely wrong in thinking a CW is superior to a GWF in anything other than control and throwing things over walls, a properly built gwf that knows how to animation cancel WMS will DECIMATE a CW on AoE. This is a fact.
I'm not sure why you're convinced the class is subpar, either because you've tried to make it work and failed or you've only played with bad GWF's but you need to stop pandering for buffs.
I've done plenty of CN runs that have gone quickly(sub 40 minutes) and without problem and as long as we don't wipe on Draco it's very common I'm top damage or fighting with the CW/TR for #1. I get "carried" so hard that most people send me a friend request after the run.
The same goes for all the T2 dungeons too, it's not hard to keep up on damage. For some reason you've convinced yourself trash damage is meaningless, Neverwinter is constantly criticized for having too much trash so I'm not sure why you've made that assertion.
Also Student of the sword is a 5% damage increase per stack for the whole party with close to 100% uptime, you may not be able to come close to a TR on bosses but they'll appreciate having +15% damage(24% if you have a GPF).
Now in closing I'd like to say that GWF's are by no means perfect, some people would call out animation cancelling as a bug, to those people I would say that sprint is designed to break your current animation otherwise it would be vastly inferior to dodge. If Cryptic decide they don't like the way it has worked for the past 2.5 months then i'm sure they'll compensate us accordingly.
It blows my mind each time someone says GWF's are useless. I know better, other GWF's know better and you should know better.
Saying "this is a fact" does not absolve you of responsibility to provide an adequate justification, or evidence. You remind me, a little, of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEolSjlcqng&feature=youtu.be&t=8s
You're welcome to party with me on mindflayer, Valsh@keobiaa. I'm not so insecure that I need to print screen the end of every run just to educate people on the forums. I provided as much justification and evidence as the guy that I quoted did.
Seriously though, Ive watched a CW cast singularity followed my steal time to root the mobs when they drop out of the black whole, just to have the GWF mow through them like they are paper. Learning how to play a class so it benefits others is aprt of the game. Kind of like turning mobs with a GF so the AOE doesnt hit teh group. An efficient team will run faster in the end regardless of classes.
Making 5 subbosses take 15% more damage on every crit with one strike is very nice for my team. Most pugs don't realize they score higher because the GWF made it so.
Well said, I hope ppl read this. Ppl who talk about GWF's being "bad" don't know a GWF's full potential or have played with a GWF who just doesn't play it well.
Great Aoe Dmg, We can CC a bit, Debuff, Agro control and Tank a bit. We are the jack of all trades in a way.
Says the TR who dies in the first 50% of a boss fight, and the GWF ends up tanking adds, and taking the boss down.
Says the TR who keeps screaming "get the adds off of me. I cant stay on the boss with all these adds!"
Says the TR who tries to revive someone else and gets one shotted, unlike a GWF.
Says the TR who wants the GWF to debuff the boss for 45% so he can do more dps.
LOL, I am sorry, but I can take an argument like this from a DC or a CW, but to say that a TR is hilariously superior is ...."hilarious".
Sure taking down the boss will be slower without a TR, but not necessarily "harder". In fact I would argue that with a GWF it would be safer. Relieving pressure off of CWs and/or DC so they can relax and do their job without teleporting/dodging every second, to me is as valuable if not more valuable than a TR bringing extra dps on a boss. 90% of wipes on bosses occur because of adds getting out of hands, and NEVER because the boss is going down slower.
Sure GWFs still could use more added value/utility in the current content, but no where near the exaggerated claims of some people.
Animation cancelling IS a bug, and if you have to abuse a glitch to do well, that points all the harder to how bad this class is.
Um controlling and throwing things over walls are currently the two best and fastest ways to deal with trash. CW's can either completely cc all adds rendering them harmless to your party, or kill them instantly by tossing them over the edge. When you can either avalanche of steel every 2 seconds and keep all mobs prone until they die or kill mobs outright in one strike (and even then you could only kill 5 at a time lol!) then GWF will be equal to CW in trash clearing. That leaves boss damage and TR will always be superior in single target dps. GWF's are amazing in pvp, they can crush any class most of the time, but they are simply not the best choice in PvE.
Think of it in terms of gear. There are 5 pieces of gear comprising your party. You need heals so you equip a cleric. You need boss dps so you equip a rogue (or 2 depending on the dungeon) You need a tank so you equip a GF. Hmm 1-2 slots left and we need trash clearing... When I equip the CW I have 12k GS and am way above the minimum for the dungeon so I should have an easy time. When I equip the GWF I'm sitting at 9.4k GS, I can get in to the instance because I meet the minimum requirements but I will be much less effective because I don't have the BiS composition lol.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.